140Km on 50ltr LPG

[Gullible]

Hi.
I had gas injection fitted 3 weeks ago to my 1998 V8 Disco, and I’m getting 140km on 50ltrs of LPG. Granted I’m ultra Urban in the Sydney jams but it seems a little poor to me.
I’m running on normal road tyres with an empty car and the only modifications are a roof rack and a steel bull bar.

[spudboy]

Oooh - I had to work that out in L/100Km, and it comes to 35.7L/100Km, which would make it cheaper to run on petrol :(

Better call up your installer and have a chat.

[trobbo]

what sort of economy were you getting out of petrol?

I had a gas injection install done to my D1 with 4.6 and get around 18 - 19 ltrs per hundred towing my camper. It has had some work on the exhaust side of things including work to the heads.

Power is up slightly and economy is at least the same as it was on petrol if not better.

[alanbettison]

V poor

go back to installer

I have LPG D2 = 22-24 L per 100kms ish

[PAT303]

mine gets 260km on 50ltrs. Pat

[Gullible]

I came from a holden commodore and got my first Disco a few months ago.

I have done a couple of holiday trips from Sydney to Grafton and my fuel bills were twice that of the commodore with similar weight in the car and a surfboard on the roof.

Everyone told me the V8 was going to be thirsty but, WOW... I think we worked it out to be 17.5 Ltr per 100Km and that was at a steady cruising speed of 100-105Km/hr

I have been following the chip thread and think I need to get my car Dyno tested to see if there is anything that can be done to improve the economy.


I know the problem is not my right foot, I'm the slowest off the lights and always have been, so much so it is a running joke in the family.

[mrapocalypse]

Dude if I get 17l/100k in LPG I'm jumping for joy, That's softly softly on the pedal on long highway drives.

55l gets me 250k around town and 320 on the highway and off road all bets are off!

[Camo]

Used to run LPG on my 1990 rangie

Average around town was 220k's for 50 litres and would hit 300k's for 50litres on the highway

Sorta wish I kept it on LPG with the petrol prices now! but had no way else to fit my Engel and subwoofer in the back as the fricken tank took up half the rear space:p

Camo

[alanbettison]

the 17 l, is that on gas or petrol

cruising on pertrol should give you 13L p 100k

[CraigE]

Should be double that.
Average on a V8 Disco or RR should be between 16 - 20l per 100kms depending n load or towing. And that was on my RR and was not injection.

[Gullible]

the 17 l, is that on gas or petrol

cruising on pertrol should give you 13L p 100k
yup, 17ltr per 100Km in on Petrol.....

[dobbo]

the 17 l, is that on gas or petrol

cruising on pertrol should give you 13L p 100k

How long did it take to strip the body off the car?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm getting around 300Km with a 59L manifold tank. Works out about 19L/100Km on a 4.6 ZF auto RRc. And that includes the Mount Ousley Road in both directions with travel at 100 - 110 Kph.

Mine always runs out of fuel going up hills. :)

(I could turn it back to use up the dregs going down the next hill, but that can't be good starving the engine too often.)

[tony]

Thats very bad...take it back...

mate just had (3-4 months ago) had gas

injection fitted to his p38 and there were a few issues with the install

he now gets around the 250- k mark out of his 72 lit tank but thats all

loaded up an towing a bloody heavy van..

i get around the 22lit/100ks out of my vapour set up 4.2 rr

T

[dobbo]

I'm getting around 300Km with a 59L manifold tank. Works out about 19L/100Km on a 4.6 ZF auto RRc. And that includes the Mount Ousley Road in both directions with travel at 100 - 110 Kph.

Mine always runs out of fuel going up hills. :)

(I could turn it back to use up the dregs going down the next hill, but that can't be good starving the engine too often.)


I thought LPG shouldn't be effected by any angle.

Is your system running correctly?

[rangieman]

Thats very bad...take it back...

mate just had (3-4 months ago) had gas

injection fitted to his p38 and there were a few issues with the install

he now gets around the 250- k mark out of his 72 lit tank but thats all

loaded up an towing a bloody heavy van..

i get around the 22lit/100ks out of my vapour set up 4.2 rr

T
Is that 72 useable litres or is it a 72 litre tank minus 20% for expansion , which makes about 58 useable litres for 250 k :eek:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I thought LPG shouldn't be effected by any angle.

Is your system running correctly?

I'm no expert on these matters, but the LPG comes out of the tank as a liquid and is converted to a gas at the "converter" in the engine bay. There is always an air space in the cylinder to allow for expansion (the reason the 84Lt volume of the tank can only hold 59L LPG). So I would assume that there has to be a liquid pickup inside the tank, in my case it is the three separate interconnected cylinders and I am assuming when the the tanks are near empty and I'm going up hill, the remaining liquid flows into the rear cylinder while the pick-up is somewhere forward and hence no go. There have been occasions when I have switched back to LPG and get another 10 or more Km on the remains.

Someone else may be able to inform us if my theory is correct and more importantly if my system is working correctly?

Diana

[tony]

Is that 72 useable litres or is it a 72 litre tank minus 20% for expansion , which makes about 58 useable litres for 250 k :eek:


Its 58 usable, but he norrmally gets 60 in at a refill...i think but I'll get him to confirm tomorrow

T

[beforethevision]

How long did it take to strip the body off the car?

hahahahaha quality.

to get to 13L/100kms more than that would have to come off!

Cheers!

[dobbo]

I'm no expert on these matters, but the LPG comes out of the tank as a liquid and is converted to a gas at the "converter" in the engine bay. There is always an air space in the cylinder to allow for expansion (the reason the 84Lt volume of the tank can only hold 59L LPG). So I would assume that there has to be a liquid pickup inside the tank, in my case it is the three separate interconnected cylinders and I am assuming when the the tanks are near empty and I'm going up hill, the remaining liquid flows into the rear cylinder while the pick-up is somewhere forward and hence no go. There have been occasions when I have switched back to LPG and get another 10 or more Km on the remains.

Someone else may be able to inform us if my theory is correct and more importantly if my system is working correctly?

Diana

Fuel equalisation, LPG in theory should be able to run on any angle, that and the price of the gas are the main advantages of such a system.

As for economy, on my trip to Bowtells bridge on Wednesday, with Lokka as a witness I put 33L of diesel in my 4BD1 County on Tuesday arvo, the fuel light was just starting to illuminate so say at most 9l left in the tank before the fuel up. Aggressive mud tyres, full roof rack, 8 people 2 esky's and all the crap the kids need for a cold day out. My low stress engine only got 10.39l/110kms, I would love to see a V8 get 13l/100km's but cannot see how.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Fuel equalisation, LPG in theory should be able to run on any angle, ...
Guess I have a trip to "The Gas Man" coming up!

[scarry]

filled up the work van today...took 52 litres of lpg ,done 349k,on scales weighs 2.2t,so i recon not to bad.

lotza...i havent noticed it runs out up hills,but have noticed it will splutter if lpg is close to running out& i go around a sharp corner.i have always wondered if the tanks have any baffles in them....maybe someone would know.i believe they have a tube to pick up the liquid from the bottom of the tank,which then goes to the gas converter,so if the tank was,say upside down,only gas would come out & the converter would be starved of fuel.

cheers:)

[Gullible]

Well I've discovered that my LPG brain is very hot and this may becontributing to the problem.
I'm getting dyno tested on Wednesday and will see what that brings up.

[4X4V8]

I would love to see a V8 get 13l/100km's but cannot see howNot sure why you say that, but 13s should be easy for a std V8 in good repair to achieve. Maybe not a D1, but certainly a D2.

[Gullible]

Well I'm just back from the Dyno test.
Max 59Kw on petrol, 61Kw on LPG which is so so. The exhaust is mildly restrictive but good for another 12-18 months so that is staying.

The downer is the Air Fuel Ratio. 13 - 15 on LPG, but a constant 11 on petrol.

So I'm in negotiations with the financial director to get a Haltec chip thing installed which should take care of the poor timing and over fuelling.

By then I'll be due for a return to the LPG garage for the first 1000 Km tweak and if that little lot has not fixed the fuel economy I'll buy a freelander (only kidding).

[bazista]

My '88 injected Rangie, 3.5 = 18L/100kms around town, have stretched to 13L/100 highway cruising with lightweight right foot and no revs over 2000. Am having injected gas fitted in Sept now wonder if doing the right thing.
Bazista

[Gullible]

Yes you are doing the right thing.
Do not let my untuned engine and ultra urban driving put you off.

My mate had his fitted with old gas.
It blew his airbox up in the first month.

[silverhammer]

Hi all, just caught up with this thread after being away on Simpson trip. I've had sequential LPG fitted to my D1 4.6 HC auto and am very unhappy with perfomance and economy, especially towing. 30-37L/100km!!! Low revs stuff off road OK but not anything above 2500rpm it just sputters and pings.

The system is sold by Elko in Melbourne. Have had it dyno'd 74Kw petrol 64K4 LPG, fuel mix for both spot on, timing set at 10 degrees. Am ready to torch it!!!

[Grimace]

hahahahaha quality.

to get to 13L/100kms more than that would have to come off!

Cheers!

Beleive it or not 13-15L/100 for 100k/h highway driving is normal.
around town 16-20L/100 is normal
This is on petrol.

My old 89 3.5 rangie with standard gearing and 5" spring lift was getting 16L/100 on the highway with 37" rubber. around town it was about 22L/100.

My current 90 3.9 is 15L/100 highway and 20L/100 around town (all cold driving unfortunately :( ), just got back from the springs 4x4 park fully loaded and the trip back (approx 200ks total) brought my gauge down to 3qtrs (which I actually worked out to be closer to a third of my tank used) so I think being fully loaded (with roof rack) made stuff all difference to the highway economy and also it is fairly windy roads at times.

Back on topic, anything over 25l/100 is not good in any rover, be it petrol or gas. I know I would def not be happy with figures like that.

Black betty I would be taking your vehicle back asap and get it checked out.

[mcrover]

mine gets 260km on 50ltrs. Pat

Mine got 570kms off 50ltrs on the weekend........:o

oh yeah, mines a Diesel....:p


Sorry, go to your installer and ask very nicely to make it work properly :D

[trobbo]

Hi all, just caught up with this thread after being away on Simpson trip. I've had sequential LPG fitted to my D1 4.6 HC auto and am very unhappy with perfomance and economy, especially towing. 30-37L/100km!!! Low revs stuff off road OK but not anything above 2500rpm it just sputters and pings.

The system is sold by Elko in Melbourne. Have had it dyno'd 74Kw petrol 64K4 LPG, fuel mix for both spot on, timing set at 10 degrees. Am ready to torch it!!!

there is something wrong with that system. My 4.6 D1 with gas injection has more power on gas and returns around 18ltr per hundred towing my camper.

I suspect it is your mixer is at fault.
Either the installer did not realise you had the 4.6. The 4.6 needs a bigger mixer than the 3.9. or the mixer has a fault or both.
I had an issue when a spring failed in the mixer causing it to not run enough pressure. The result was that it would not rev as hard and it felt like the engine had a miss. It still had enough pressure to drive satisfactory on the highway, but on or long hills i switched back to petrol.

[silverhammer]

trobbo
Thanks for the reply...your results are what I was expecting. What brand system have you got?

Silverhammer

[Grimace]

I would like to add that anyone whom is running gas should really set their car up to run on premium unleaded (95ron) as the benefits of gas are incresed when using a higher octane fuel.

I have not touched a 91ron or ethanol pump in years, I don't even put 91 in my tinny :).

If you tune your car to run on the higher ron petrols you will get better milage and performance (specially when running gas injection).

[trobbo]

trobbo
Thanks for the reply...your results are what I was expecting. What brand system have you got?

Silverhammer

I had my system fitted by Deacon Auto - I think it is a romano mixer

The below is lifted from their web page.
Deacon - Spare Parts (http://www.deaconauto.com.au/incorrectlpg.htm)


Incorrect fitment of LPG At Deacon Auto Gas we do take the time to research our systems and the cars we fit them to. We only fit Vapour injection, we also only fit it to Land Rovers, we do not waste your time or money fitting the old Gas Carbie systems as they are just more trouble than they are worth. We know this as we have anywhere from 1-5 cars per week coming in with gas related problems as they went and had a cheaper system fitted else where.
If you are going to shop around and do your homework PLEASE unsure that the people fitting your gas vapour injection system are drilling DIRECTLY into your manifold NOT just into the plenum. Drilling into the Plenum is gas vapour injection, yes, but you will not be happy with the performance, economy and running of your vehicle. How do we know?? Because we see 1-5 vehicles per week running incorrectly or complaining of poor gas economy.
In the 1st image you can see where the computer has been located, directly onto the firewall, right next to the exhaust manifold, the excessive heat will cause issues with the on board LPG computer. In the 2nd image you can see where the injector rails are mounted, where the main LPG lines are run and where the LPG injector lines are run and fitted into the top of the plenum. in the 3rd image you have a close up shot of the plenum with the injector lines drilled and tapped into it. in the 4th image you are able to see the over all view of all of the gas lines on the top of the motor.


http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/INCORRECT-COMPUTER-FITMENT.jpg http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/INCORRECT-FITMENT-3.jpg http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/INCORRECT-FITMENT-1.jpg http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/INCORRECT-FITMENT-2.jpg

The next sequence of images is what makes our system fitment that little bit better than other installers.

1st: We totally remove the plenum from the vehicle to expose the intake manifold – STRIPPED MANIFOLD


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ 2nd +3rd: We drill and tap into the appropriate intake with the nozzle angle spraying the correct way to give us better efficiency and power.-GAS INJECTOR NOZZLES

http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/GAS-INJECTOR-NOZZLES.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
4th: We then mount the injectors on custom brackets so when fitted are directly in line with the intake minimising restriction and flow issues.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/
5th: When mounted the plenum hides all gas lines and looks like it has been a factory fitted option with its presentation.

http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/CORRECT-CONVERTOR-FITMENT.jpg http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/XA-UNDER-BONET.jpg
6th: the LPG on board computer is housed hidden neatly away in the ECU housing (away from any heat and water)


http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/CORRECT-COMPUTER-FITMENT.jpg 7th: The final shot of Deacon Auto Gas Lpg vapour injection fitment.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Tank]

Fuel equalisation, LPG in theory should be able to run on any angle, that and the price of the gas are the main advantages of such a system.

As for economy, on my trip to Bowtells bridge on Wednesday, with Lokka as a witness I put 33L of diesel in my 4BD1 County on Tuesday arvo, the fuel light was just starting to illuminate so say at most 9l left in the tank before the fuel up. Aggressive mud tyres, full roof rack, 8 people 2 esky's and all the crap the kids need for a cold day out. My low stress engine only got 10.39l/110kms, I would love to see a V8 get 13l/100km's but cannot see how.
Quote:"I would love to see a V8 get 13l/100km's but cannot see how."
Dobbo on a 2500klm trip in my BA GT (5.4L V8) I averaged 11l/100klm(I know you are referring to LR V8, but you did say V8), at one time I had it up to 225klm/hr and getting there the fuel usage went up tp 32l/100klm, but at ordinary cruise speeds fuel usage was between 8l and 11l/100klm, a hell of a lot better than any Rover V8, I just travelled 300klm in my 93 Disco (4l.V8 with 3.5 EFI) round trip with a 310kg army trailer, loaded with a Rover V8 on the way back and averaged 20l/100klm, I am having a Gas Injection (LPG) system fitted to my Disco, maybe then I will be able to afford to get out more, Regards Frank.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

http://www.deaconauto.com.au/images/STRIPPED-MANIFOLD.jpg 2nd +3rd: We drill and tap into the appropriate intake with the nozzle angle spraying the correct way to give us better efficiency and power.-GAS INJECTOR NOZZLES







How do you stop metal filings from dropping inside the manifold when you drill???? Its obviously done on the vehicle?????