What to look for in a Isuzu 110/Stage 1?

[Dauntless]

Hi everyone. I am in the market for a Stage One or One Ten ute or cab chassis, powered by the Isuzu 4BD1. What should I look for when buying one?

Do most of the Series III and One Ten body panels interchange? As one I've looked at is fairly beaten up but seems good underneath.

How hard are they too find in good shape? What are they generally worth?

[JDNSW]

Stage 1 Isuzus are quite rare. Panels are the same as Series 3 except for the bonnet and front panel which are the same as or interchangeable with 110/Defender. Look for the usual problems, the serious ones being rust in the bulkhead and chassis. Front axle parts unique to the Stage 1 will be hard to source and possibly expensive. Engine is unlikely to have problems, but the LT95 transmission may need attention. Price is very dependent on condition, but expect around $5000 - see note below.

110 Isuzu utes or cab/chassis are quite rare as well, but less so than Stage 1s, panels are mostly interchangeable with Defender and in some cases Series 3 panels will fit or can be modified. Again, the serious problem is rust in the chassis or bulkhead. If fitted with the five speed gearbox check the gearbox carefully as it does not stand up to the Isuzu as well as the LT95. You are likely to find 120" rather than 110" cab/chassis or traytop, and these are also rare. Also consider a 110 wagon with damaged rear end for conversion (you can use the cab off a Defender, or with a bit of work off a Series 2/2a/3 except for the roof). In this case you may well run across Isuzu conversions of wagons that were originally V8s. If looking at a wagon, most people prefer the ones without factory airconditioning as these do not have the front vents. Again, prices are very dependent on condition, but expect something around the same as for a Stage 1 Isuzu.

All Isuzu powered Landrovers, while taken overall are not really that rare, appear on the market only occasionally, as most owners tend to hang onto them. This means the market is very "thin", and prices vary widely depending on whether someone needs to sell NOW at any price or whether someone needs one NOW and will pay whatever is asked.

John

[Dauntless]

Thanks mate! So the 120" 110's are coil sprung though?

Which front axle parts are unique to a Stage 1?

[isuzurover]

Thanks mate! So the 120" 110's are coil sprung though?

Which front axle parts are unique to a Stage 1?

120s are coil sprung.

IME isuzu stage 1s are pretty easy tyo come by.

The only stage1 specific parts are the hubs, swivel balls main casing and CVs. You can substitute other parts for all of these - and of all the above, only cvs are wearing parts.

AEU2522 (county) cvs and County rear hubs should swap straight in if you ever need to change cvs, or just the cvs and mogified drive flanges.

SIII swivel balls will fit with a bit of machining internally. SIII diff casings will fit if you relocate the mounts slightly.

[Dauntless]

OK thanks for that.

So what are the advantages/disadvantages of an Isuzu Stage One ute Vs an Isuzu 110/120 ute?

[isuzurover]

OK thanks for that.

So what are the advantages/disadvantages of an Isuzu Stage One ute Vs an Isuzu 110/120 ute?

The only advantage of a stage1 is it is cheaper and slightly simpler to work on.

[stage1slave]

OK thanks for that.

So what are the advantages/disadvantages of an Isuzu Stage One ute Vs an Isuzu 110/120 ute?


Real people drive leafers! I know I'm weird, but I like to drive a car that needs to be driven, bit of driver input, not just a steering wheel attendant!
I guess I'm lucky, I have a choice between my Stage1 deisel and my v8 county for my everyday work vehicle.
Coil springs and power steering are OK, but I do choose to drive my stage1 for my business [ contract gardener]. Something a little different that sets me apart. Also shows customers that I am very capaple of what I do, even if it's not so easy at times!

cheers
Evelyn

[JDNSW]

The advantage of the leaf sprung Stage 1 is that it has leaf springs, if you consider that an advantage. It also has most body parts the same as other Series 3 Landrovers, which means they are cheaper and easier to find than the 110/120 parts. Has removable door tops.

The disadvantage is that it has leaf springs, and as commented above has a few orphan parts - add half axles to isuzurover's list.

The advantage of the 120 is obviously the longer wheelbase, and both coil spring vehicles have a markedly better turning circle than any Series 3 lwb. The weight distribution is perhaps slightly better, with both front and rear axles further back, so more weight is on the front wheels. Although most probably did not have power steering it is easier to fit. All except the very earliest 120/110s had windup windows, but the door tops cannot be removed. Ride of the coilers is a lot better than the leaf sprung Stage 1, but parabolics would bring them close. The disc front brakes on the 110/120 are better than the drums on the Stage 1, and much lower in maintenance.

Disadvantages of the coilers are few, probably the main one is that a lot of parts will be more expensive, and some body trim hard to find. The pre-1997 doors with windup windows were not Landrover's best products, but the later doors are much thicker, so you lose significant room.

In summary, I would get a 120 for preference, but the Stage 1 would be quite acceptable, and from an enthusiast's point of view is more of a part of history.

Worth noting that almost all of both types will have been sold initially into commercial use, mostly in mining and agriculture, and will probably have led a pretty hard life compared to the typical wagon or even hardtop of similar age.

John

[Dauntless]

That's some good info there, it gives me a bit to think about.

Ideally I'd set it up to be a bit of fun offroad, but also to tow a car trailer. What sort of fuel economy can I expect? Do the Isuzu's have problems running on low sulphur diesel or biodiesel?

I'd most likely look at fitting 8.25x16 or 35x10.5x16 mud tyres, 4.10 diff conversion, a locker in the back and possibly a LSD or locker in the front. Is it possible to fit free wheeling hubs, and is this a bad idea?

[JDNSW]

That's some good info there, it gives me a bit to think about.

1. Ideally I'd set it up to be a bit of fun offroad, but also to tow a car trailer. What sort of fuel economy can I expect? Do the Isuzu's have problems running on low sulphur diesel or biodiesel?

2. I'd most likely look at fitting 8.25x16 or 35x10.5x16 mud tyres, 4.10 diff conversion, a locker in the back and possibly a LSD or locker in the front. Is it possible to fit free wheeling hubs, and is this a bad idea?

1. Should be OK towing, you'll have to really work to get worse than 12l/100km, and expect to do better. Either vehicle will tow well, but don't expect high speed without a turbocharger. I have seen no reports of problems with either low sulphur diesel or biodiesel.

2. I'd check with the RTA about allowable tyre size increases - both vehicles came with 7.50x16 as standard. There should be adequate clearance on either for the increased size without a suspension lift, although expect some increase in turning circle.

Lockers or LSDs are available for either Series 3 or 110, so should not present any problems, except if they require different half shafts, the front ones on the Stage 1 are unique and may be a problem. (rear is the same as any S3).

Since both vehicles are constant four wheel drive, it is neither possible nor desirable to fit free wheel hubs. The increased tyre size will probably require power steering, which will be easier to fit to the 110/120.

John

[Dauntless]

OK thanks for that. The only thing I really don't like about these vehicles is the constant 4WD, but I realise the LT95's strength is necessary behind the Isuzu.

[4bd1]

Hi everyone. I am in the market for a Stage One or One Ten ute or cab chassis, powered by the Isuzu 4BD1. What should I look for when buying one?

Do most of the Series III and One Ten body panels interchange? As one I've looked at is fairly beaten up but seems good underneath.

How hard are they too find in good shape? What are they generally worth?

I've got both a Stage One Isuzu, and a 110 Isuzu, and they are very different from one another.

As has been pointed out it's leafs vs coils.
The coils are certainly more 'plush'
I tried fitting parabolics on the Stage One, and in spite of what the sales people will tell you, the 4bd1 was just too heavy for them. (I also have a heavy bar and PTO winch which didn't help)
It sat low, and also the extra lateral movement in the parabolics ended up with the drive shaft hitting the pan at the sump plug area, under certain conditions. (It's now back on conventional springs)

Steering. I find my 110 understeers a fair bit. I'm going to look into it one day, but certainly doesn't compare to my 200tdi Defender which I rekon steers much better.
(I believe 200tdis are set back in the engine bay compared to 300tdis, maybe someone can confirm this. But thats off the point.)
The Stage One, well, it steers like a Series Landy. On the up side you're too busy to ever fall asleep driving it. ;)

Stage One brakes suck.
Shifting down is a great option for slowing with the 4bd1.

The Stage One has a mechanical fuel shut off (pull the knob), and the 110 electric.
The wiring/ switches dash etc are more basic in the Stage One, and certainly easier to work on.

The 110 is a County, so soundproofing etc means you can listen to the radio, whereas the Stage One being fairly agricultural is bloody noisey inside.

Legroom in the 110 is greater, as the footwells in the 110 firewall are deeper/ different shape.
The engine bay in the Stage One is narrower, and as a guess I'd say that'd make fitting a turbo (if thats your wish) a tougher job.

But at the end of the day I love my Stage One, and like my 110.;)
Maybe it's the character, or perhaps just the times I spent with it, or perhaps just that it never requires any work done on it. You couldn't kill the bloody thing with an axe.


Some general info on commonality of panels-
I did some measuring up when I was considering sticking the Stage One on a 110 chassis.
The front guards are totally different.The Stage One are a one piece inner/outer guard assembly, and are incompatible with the 110 steering.
Wheel arches front and rear are in a different location.
If the rear guards are cut/modified on the Stage One to fit the 110, the 'toolbox' has to be modified as it is within the area to be cut out.
The firewall is different as mentioned above, but also in the way the guards are attached. (and the brakets fro the windsreen.
Obviously the windscreen and roof are different.


The only thing I really don't like about these vehicles is the constant 4WD, but I realise the LT95's strength is necessary behind the Isuzu.
Why?
I rekon constant 4wd is great.
I drive a lot of rear wheel drive 4wds, and on something like a gravel road, the constant 4wd is miles ahead when it comes to cornering.

Cheers

[Dauntless]

Thanks for that! The reason I ask is the Stage One I am looking at is a bit dented, and I was hoping to be able to replace the roof and guards with Series panels and the bonnet with a 110 or Defender one.

I currently drive a 1982 Hilux dual cab 4x4 with a 2.4 diesel in it. I am really impressed with the way it handles. I prefer slight oversteer in 2WD, rather than the bad understeer that constant 4WDs tend to have.

Which parabolics did you try to use, with no luck? Paddock Spares in the UK sell fairly heavy duty looking parabolics, so what about those with decent shocks and One Ton shackles?

[Dauntless]

Do the Isuzu Stage Ones or 110/120's come fitted with a tachometer? If not, what is the solution for that?

[Ben]

Do the Isuzu Stage Ones or 110/120's come fitted with a tachometer? If not, what is the solution for that?

My 110 came with an aftermarket tacho (although unworking). The instrument cluster has a speedometer/odometer, fuel gauge and coolant temp.

[JDNSW]

1. 110/120 Isuzu engined utes and cab/chassis are not Countys, and hence do not have the extra trim.

2. No Isuzu engined Landrovers come with a tachometer. Some other applications of this engine do, however, and I believe is simple, easy, albeit not cheap, to buy and fit a tacho designed for the engine from truck suppliers.

I agree entirely with 4bd1 about the advantages of full time four wheel drive - like him I have two Landrovers, one with and one without though, so I can compare them on a daily basis, and there is no question in my mind that on anything except dry bitumen the constant four wheel drive is better, and on dry bitumen it is just as good. I do not have a problem with severe understeer, but I would note that tyre pressures versus load are fairly important, and it is possible that tyre type may affect it as well.

John

[Dauntless]

OK thanks. So most of you just drive around without a tachometer? Hmm...

[rovercare]

OK thanks. So most of you just drive around without a tachometer? Hmm...

You need a tacho to know when to change gears?:Rolling:

You can;t over rev it, it has an engine governor built in the injection pump;)

[Quarks]

I always found my ears perfectly adequate -

if they're bouncing around, then it's clearly idling;
if you can't hear anything, then it's about half way;
if you can't hear yourself think, then it's on the governor!

:D:p:D




(ok, perhaps that's a slight over-exaggeration! :angel::wasntme:)

[wovenrovings]

I have found that my 120 ute tends to be either neutral or slightly oversteering depending on the load. At least on gravel or slippery conditions. On the bitumen it threatens to toss you out the window before the tires slip. But i like it that way.

By the way stage ones ran lower high range gearing than 110 isuzus. You hit the governor at 100kmph. 2nd is low enough to start of empty so you could probably fit larger tires without changing the gearing, on the road anyway.
The brakes are the weak link to speed and larger tires in a stage one.

Stage 1 isuzus seem to have a lot more diesel rattle for some reason.

[Dauntless]

You need a tacho to know when to change gears?:Rolling:

You can;t over rev it, it has an engine governor built in the injection pump;)I don't need one, but I want one. I've found it's nice to know the engine speed in a variety of situations.


By the way stage ones ran lower high range gearing than 110 isuzus. You hit the governor at 100kmph. 2nd is low enough to start of empty so you could probably fit larger tires without changing the gearing, on the road anyway.
The brakes are the weak link to speed and larger tires in a stage one.

In 4th? Bloody hell. What is the governed engine speed? Do they have enough grunt to be able to pull a bit taller gearing?

[JDNSW]

I......

Stage 1 isuzus seem to have a lot more diesel rattle for some reason.

I think there are several reasons for that -

1. The Series mudguards are less of a sound shield than are the double ones on the 110.

2. Most 110s have at least some insulation.

3. I remember being told years ago (by Fred Smith) that the engines fitted to the 110s had a slightly lower compression ratio, I assume with a different head gasket, to reduce the knock.

John

[EchiDna]

Edited with apologies to Dobbo and thethink :D


I always found my eyes/ears perfectly adequate -

if she is bouncing around, then it's clearly idling;
if you can't hear her, then it's about half way;
if you can't hear yourself, then it's on the governor!

:D:p:D

[Dougal]

OK thanks. So most of you just drive around without a tachometer? Hmm...

They're not hard to hook up. I use the factory one in my rangie driven from the alternator.

[4bd1]

I think there are several reasons for that -

1. The Series mudguards are less of a sound shield than are the double ones on the 110.

2. Most 110s have at least some insulation.

3. I remember being told years ago (by Fred Smith) that the engines fitted to the 110s had a slightly lower compression ratio, I assume with a different head gasket, to reduce the knock.

John

From a sample group of two (I know it's not much to go on), but the engine in my Stage One Isuzu, has much more of a diesel rattle than my 110 Isuzu.
Bonnet up, standing outside the vehicle, there is a considerable difference.
Both have about the same kms on them

The Stage One also pulls much harder, but I'm guessing that's probably more a function of less weight and lower gearing.

Cheers

[Dougal]

From a sample group of two (I know it's not much to go on), but the engine in my Stage One Isuzu, has much more of a diesel rattle than my 110 Isuzu.
Bonnet up, standing outside the vehicle, there is a considerable difference.
Both have about the same kms on them

The Stage One also pulls much harder, but I'm guessing that's probably more a function of less weight and lower gearing.

Cheers

Injection timing?

[Dauntless]

So what high range ratio did the 110's run, and how hard is it to find one of those gearsets and swap it in?

[4bd1]

Injection timing?

Could be.

When I tried to check the timing on the 110, I removed the cover rolled it over but couldn't find the mark. Gave up in the end, and as I was getting the injectors professionally, done asked them to check the timing.
turns out they couldn't find the mark either.
Looks like I'll have to spill time it, but since it runs well enough I haven't been motivated enough to do it.


Cheers

[Dougal]

Could be.

When I tried to check the timing on the 110, I removed the cover rolled it over but couldn't find the mark. Gave up in the end, and as I was getting the injectors professionally, done asked them to check the timing.
turns out they couldn't find the mark either.
Looks like I'll have to spill time it, but since it runs well enough I haven't been motivated enough to do it.


Cheers


Shouldn't you be looking for the mark on the front crankshaft pulley? They're the ones that are graduated with degrees. The one on the fuel pump drive gear is only to make sure it goes in lined up correctly.

[JDNSW]

So what high range ratio did the 110's run, and how hard is it to find one of those gearsets and swap it in?

0.996:1. I don't know how easy they are to find, never needed to, but I would be surprised if they could not be bought from any dealer at least since there are large numbers of military 110s still in service with them at the very least. Mind you, I don't think they are cheap either.

I don't know if that ratio was used in any other application.

John

[wovenrovings]

It would pull higher gearing but the brakes on the stage 1s i have driven leave a bit to be desired at speeds above 80km/h.

[rovercare]

0.996:1. I don't know how easy they are to find, never needed to, but I would be surprised if they could not be bought from any dealer at least since there are large numbers of military 110s still in service with them at the very least. Mind you, I don't think they are cheap either.

I don't know if that ratio was used in any other application.

John

The military units are tapered roller on the intermediate shaft and will cost 3k for the set

High compression 3.5 LT95 Rangies had them aswell

I'm goint to replaceing a set with a tapered roller set shortly, so if anyone wasnt a set of 0.996 transfer gears, let me know

[isuzurover]

The military units are tapered roller on the intermediate shaft and will cost 3k for the set

High compression 3.5 LT95 Rangies had them aswell

I'm goint to replaceing a set with a tapered roller set shortly, so if anyone wasnt a set of 0.996 transfer gears, let me know

Why so $$$ - are they becoming hard to find? I know a few people who only paid $600-800 a few years back - from FWD in Brisbane.

[Dauntless]

I'm goint to replaceing a set with a tapered roller set shortly, so if anyone wasnt a set of 0.996 transfer gears, let me know

I do. How hard are they to swap?

[Dauntless]

What is involved to fit 110 brakes on a Stage One?

[rovercare]

I do. How hard are they to swap?

You do it in situ, its a VERY fiddley procedure

[rovercare]

Why so $$$ - are they becoming hard to find? I know a few people who only paid $600-800 a few years back - from FWD in Brisbane.

Brand new from LR price

Try ring FWD now, they don't have none:(

I exhausted most options I could think off, a mate was going to maching some up, but never came to fruition, I ended up with 1 set from a wreck and another from Damien, I've been offered another set, but I'll leave that up to the chap as they're his spare set

[Dauntless]

You do it in situ, its a VERY fiddley procedureWhat makes it such a fiddly job?

[rovercare]

What makes it such a fiddly job?

Lining up bronze and normal shims, needle roller bearings, transfer gears, while trying to insert a shaft through them

[isuzurover]

What is involved to fit 110 brakes on a Stage One?

Rear county drums are basically the same as stage 1. No way to do a straight swap of front discs - a fair bit of machining is needed, or a $$$ disc conversion.

[Dauntless]

Rear county drums are basically the same as stage 1. No way to do a straight swap of front discs - a fair bit of machining is needed, or a $$$ disc conversion.Ahh right. What machining is involved?

[isuzurover]

Ahh right. What machining is involved?

You need to machine a bracket (or 3) to mount a caliper to the series swivel housing (much larger than a coiller housing). I have seen a couple of (well engineered) home-made conversions, using RRC front calipers (slightly smaller than 110) modified for single circuit operation.

You also need to fit extended, high-strength studs to the top and bottom of the swivel housing to mount the brackets to. Not sure if the studs are available off the shelf.

Once you have a caliper mount fabricated and fitted, the rest is a bolt-on job.

EDIT - the conversion would need to be engineered if you wanted to keep everything legal.

[Dougal]

using RRC front calipers (slightly smaller than 110) modified for single circuit operation.

Discovery series I calipers are the same as RRC calipers but only single circuit. Of course there's a bit of variation through the years, I have seen dual circuit discos too.

[Dauntless]

Sounds alright then...