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View Full Version : 89 rrc - removing starter motor.



strange_rover1
10th August 2008, 01:58 PM
Gday all, How the **** do you get those 2 stupid bloody 8mm hex head bolts out from the starter motor?!?!?!?:mad: I went out and bought a new hex head socket set, cleaned the bolts head out put in the socket and while using all available strength was hanging off the bottom one and all it did was round out the inside so it is now no longer an 8mm hex head!!!!!:mad::mad::mad: so I thought maybe I will have a break from the bottom one and have a go at the top one. Got the socket in there and while trying to turn I felt it starting to round out, so I have stopped before it gets any worse. I know the hex head socket is the right size as I used it to remove the other starter from the engine on the stand and it fit perfectly. So, do I need to remove the front prop shaft and the exhaust manifold to get these bloody things out, or should I just remove the whole engine, rebuild it while its out, change the starter motor while I'm there then put it back in again!!!!!!!
I think I have finally lost sanity plot trying to get this ****ing thing out. Any ideas would be very very much appreciated.
Shano.

rangieman
10th August 2008, 02:59 PM
Gday all, How the **** do you get those 2 stupid bloody 8mm hex head bolts out from the starter motor?!?!?!?:mad: I went out and bought a new hex head socket set, cleaned the bolts head out put in the socket and while using all available strength was hanging off the bottom one and all it did was round out the inside so it is now no longer an 8mm hex head!!!!!:mad::mad::mad: so I thought maybe I will have a break from the bottom one and have a go at the top one. Got the socket in there and while trying to turn I felt it starting to round out, so I have stopped before it gets any worse. I know the hex head socket is the right size as I used it to remove the other starter from the engine on the stand and it fit perfectly. So, do I need to remove the front prop shaft and the exhaust manifold to get these bloody things out, or should I just remove the whole engine, rebuild it while its out, change the starter motor while I'm there then put it back in again!!!!!!!
I think I have finally lost sanity plot trying to get this ****ing thing out. Any ideas would be very very much appreciated.
Shano.
Vice grips but i doubt it:cool:
Maybe weld a nut to the head of the bolt;) then use a socket

RaZz0R
10th August 2008, 10:48 PM
hey dude,

to get mine off the other weekend we just use a ling extension bar on a socket wrench to crack them - or maybe spanner to crack them?? mm either way its all we needed.

Lucus
10th August 2008, 10:56 PM
Do it when the engine is hot. Wear long sleeves and gloves. Before you start belt the heads of the bolts with a drift and hammer to shock the threads and loosen the corrosion.

A spline drive easyout shoudl bite into the socket head if you have rounded the hex. Alot of penetrene, a hot engine and a good few belts to loosen the thread and you should be able to get them out



good luck

:)

One more thing, if it really goes to poo snap-on make some shiite hot spiral drive sockets for extracting rounded/snapped bolts. The correct size would fit over the bolt head and grip like a mofo.

May be a last resort as they are pricey

RaZz0R
11th August 2008, 02:24 AM
I am so buying some! :)

pomonastik
11th August 2008, 08:28 AM
snap-on make some shiite hot spiral drive sockets for extracting rounded/snapped bolts. The correct size would fit over the bolt head and grip like a mofo. May be a last resort as they are pricey

"pricey" is not the word for snap-on !
try looking in your local tool shop for NARVIK brand stud wrenches. set of 4 covering up to 12mm head size are just under $40 and might work provided there is enough clearance around the head of the bolt.

strange_rover1
25th October 2008, 03:39 PM
These spiral drive sockets, does anyone know where I can get these? I found the Narvik wrenches but I dont think they will fit in the space available.
Shano

cloudy
25th October 2008, 04:07 PM
I can't remember the brand name of this tool but it's one of those multi wrenches that rotate with a grip on the base of the handle.
I had a bugger of a time & suffered the same fate (Rounded head) I stuck my mates wrench on it, Applied some pressure & gave it a couple of taps & away it came.

Stick a lump of pipe on the handle to extend the pull & keep whacking it if you can get at it.

It wouldn't hurt to use a small LPG soldering torch to warm it up, but don't get it too hot, you just need enough to alter the bolts structure.

Good luck

mike 90 RR
25th October 2008, 06:41 PM
mad: I went out and bought a new hex head socket set, ideas would be very very much appreciated.

Shano.

I know it's a bit late for this .. but for next time maybe

Try impact sockets next time ..... Then you can whack the heck out of it with out fear of damage

AND for some instant heat on the bolt ... Tag it with a ark welder :) ... remember the battery tho ;)

Rangier Rover
25th October 2008, 06:49 PM
You lot have got me worried now.:(
Here I was thinking I could change one out on the road side if need be. Have had no dramas with older Rangies doing so. Body lift makes it easy to get at.
A good tip will be check the things come out before they kark it.
Good luck with it.
Cheers Tony

justinc
25th October 2008, 06:54 PM
Firstly, a 5/16" hex key is the right one, and it is slightly bigger than 8mm, so there is the rounding off problem right there.
Secondly, This is a job for an apprentice or someone with contortionist skills and infinite patience.


Good luck.:D

JC

strange_rover1
25th October 2008, 07:26 PM
Have just found this little gem on the net and will try to find one tomorrow. Looks like it could be the go. Xtraktor 10pce (6-17mm) Damaged Nut, Bolt & Stud Remover Set. #XSB300M (http://www.justtools.com.au/prod3950.htm)
Thanks for the advice, has been most helpful.
Shano

trobbo
25th October 2008, 10:59 PM
I'm sorry to say that I am glad you are still going with this. I tried to take my starter out about a week after you and it's still there. I got the bottom bolt off, but have run out of patience with the top one.

Thought I might even try my 12v impact wrench for the wheel nuts but that wouldn't move it either.

So currently I am driving around with the starter held in by one bolt.

Better remember to put it back in before I go bush.

pomonastik
25th October 2008, 11:46 PM
These spiral drive sockets, does anyone know where I can get these?

yep, i saw them yesterday in geelong. set of 4 in a blister pack. i'm sorry i wasn't paying enough attention to note brand and size range but try ringing qualitool on 03 5221 8915 after 9am monday eastern summer time. ask for david bertouch. he does mail order with c/card but make sure you describe the bolt head as i know they work on gnarled up hex heads but not sure if they do perfectly round items. he will be able to advise. they need about as much all round clearance as a standard socket, maybe just a tad more
i should declare an interest in that david has given me a day a week as a gopher in the shop during the winter. it's been like working in a candy store!
mention my name (simon the fireman) if you like and tell him its range rover related and he'll be sympathetic.:D

if they work on the job tell us on the forum. i'll get a set myself as my starter hasn't yet troubled me but that means it will do sooner or later......

pomonastik
25th October 2008, 11:52 PM
i'm playing catch up on the thread but i'm sure set i saw were a lot less $ than that set you put the link up for.

strange_rover1
26th October 2008, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the contact Simon, I will ring him tomorrow and see what sort of price we are talking. I am certainly hoping they will be less than the $149 price tag on that link!! I will definitely put up results on here, so others like Trobbo can maybe solve a problem too.
Shano

PLR
27th October 2008, 10:26 PM
G`day ,

i think it`s like most things once you`ve done it once it`s not so hard .

The following is mostly only of use if the inside of the heads haven`t be rounded .

I `ve found , from under the car that if i use an extension with a cut off allen key and a single hex socket the short 1/2 inch breaker bar will do it .

The bottom usually comes easily ( if tapped with a hammer and the right key used ) so this is mostly for the top one .

First thing i do is clean out the inside of the head with a screw driver or similar then tap the head of the bolt then tap the cut off allen key into the head of the allen bolt and be as sure as possible it is in as far as it can be ( can be judged by using the lower one ) .

After i`ve cleaned the head of the bolt out , i jack the drives side front wheel about a foot off the ground and make use of safety stands . This make getting at the starter easier than if the car has both wheels on the ground .

By using the right length of tools , i`m working just past the end of the starter , i can still feel above the starter and the 1/2 inch drive will take as must effort as i`m able to apply .

If you have a Prestolite , Magneti Marelli , Lucas ( small size ) starter motor , this will get you into the head of the allen bolt and clear of the starter end . May work on Bosch but won`t on large Lucas ( if you think these small starters are short on room try one of the old big Lucas around 85RR when they went from normal type bolts heads to these allen bolts ) .

5/16 inch Allen Key ( Good Quality Only ) Cut to be 3 inches long ( approx ).

5/16 inch or 8mm Single Hex 1/2 inch drive socket ( single hex grips better than double hex )

6 and 1/2 inches of extensions 1/2 drive

or for city folk etc , go to Repco etc and ask for a 5/16 half inch drive allen key socket then work your length which will be in the range of 9 and 1/2 inches ..

3/8 drive and sockets can also be used but the reason i use 1/2 inch is because the diameter of the 1/2 helps to keep everything straight when you apply pressure and the length of the extensions allows for easy use of a hammer on the end .

Cheers
Peter

trobbo
28th October 2008, 07:49 AM
Thanks for that explanation Peter. Hopefully it will help those that have not done it before.

I've pulled plenty of starter motors off my vehicles previously (including the current one), so many in fact I had it down to a 15 minute job. Fortunately I have now lost my desire to drive through mud and so dont have the need to change them as often as I used to.

Unfortunately this one it is stuck.

taff
28th October 2008, 07:08 PM
if you still can't get it done by the weekend, your welcome to pop up mine and i'll give you a hand - i've done 3 in the last 9 months :o and am pretty quick now.
i think i may also still have a few spare normal head bolts to get rid of those stupid hex head ones ;)
jason

d@rk51d3
28th October 2008, 07:29 PM
Forget the starter motor.
You could always resort to using the hand crank.:p

PLR
28th October 2008, 10:19 PM
Thanks for that explanation Peter. Hopefully it will help those that have not done it before.

I've pulled plenty of starter motors off my vehicles previously (including the current one), so many in fact I had it down to a 15 minute job. Fortunately I have now lost my desire to drive through mud and so dont have the need to change them as often as I used to.

Unfortunately this one it is stuck.

G`day

Only trying to be helpful but it doesn`t always work out that way and i see your point it doesn`t go with the rest . I can`t edit it sorry .

Have you tried , sharp tapping it and have you tried going the other way both can help . ( not questions )

If you can get a 1/2 inch breaker bar on it and it won`t move you do have a problem , use a piece of pipe on the bar .

strange_rover1
9th November 2008, 10:50 AM
OK,
Have received the extractor tool and put it onto the bottom bolt. Bugger me it cracked as easy as anything!!!! Things were looking up, then I got to the top bolt. It gripped onto the bolt no problems but was very hard to turn, so I just took it easy. It came about a quarter of the way out then SNAP!! So in the end I now have the starter motor off (great) and the new tool works fantastic (great) but now I have to try and get the damn broken bolt out. So far I have drilled the centre of it out but because of lack of room and vision it is off centre. Tried an easy out but they will not grip the bolt as it is high tensile, so my plan when I have some more time is to drill it right out and just put a bolt and nut on.
So I can highly recommend the bolt extractor socket set made by Irwin and thanks to Simon and Dave from Qualitools in geelong for getting the tool to me so quickly.
Shano