300tdi Viscous Fan Bearing - SOLUTIONS!

[roverrescue]

From spending a day investigating the perennial 300tdi viscous fan bearing dilemma I can report the following. There seems to be at least 4 different options to quiet a screaming bearing… This is a little long winded but hopefully helpful. For the time poor go to the very bottom of post!


OPTION 1: The time poor, easy, expensive! Fix. Or say you have a cracked timing cover, or stripped threads on the air con tensioner/idler bolt holes.
Replace timing cover with OEM part. Something like $400-500.

-Remove viscous fan and shroud.
-Remove main serpentine tensioner assembly and belt.
-Remove air-con tensioner and belt.
-Rattle off Crank pulley bolt, remove crank pulley
-Rattle off all 10mm head M8 bolts that hold timing cover.
-Replace timing cover with new and re-assemble.
-Assuming the crank bolt isn’t welded / loctited in place maybe an hour to do above.


OPTION 2: Use this if the existing viscous fan bearing is shot and the 4bolt flange is broken (or breaks as you press it off!). The LRover 4bolt press fit flange and press fit bearing is essentially the same as the bearing and flange from a EA/EB/ED Ford Falcon water pump. So buy a new water pump, approx $60 for a good quality non OEM. Introduce pump to Mr Hydraulic Press.

-Support pump housing on press with the impeller down and 4 bolt flange up.
-Bear on the centre spindle, the bearing will press down till the flange contacts the pump housing and then the flange will press off the spindle.
-Continue to press bearing and impellor out of housing.
-Now get a little creative and first press the impeller from the inner spindle, then the other water pump components (things will break but the bearing is stronger than the rest). You will be left with a water pump bearing and 4bolt flange that looks, and some scrap for the bin (image2).
-This bearing is a little longer in the body than the factory one, the front spindle is also a little longer and obviously it has an inner spindle as well (image1).
-The design of the front cover means that excess length projects into the timing case and is no problem at all.
-Also note the 4 bolt flange is slightly different (images4,5). The 4 bolts all line up and shaft diameter is correct, but the thicker flanger needs to be accounted for(see later).
-Prepare Ford bearing for 300tdi service by first removing the inside spindle (there is plenty of clearance inside the timing housing so it doesn’t need to be cut-off flush)
-If you were real schmick you could turn it off in a lathe, but a 1mm disc on grinder does the job.
-the outside spindle is too long so cut it to the total depth of flange broach. Please Please Please chamfer the edges, I damaged a flange (from a wrecker) when the sharp edge dug in when pressing the bearing in.
-Now take the flange place it thread down on the press, line up bearing and with a little anti-seize press the bearing into the flange.
-The flange needs to contact the bearing spindle shoulder.
-So now you have a new bearing and flange ready to go in!


-Now to fit it.
-Invert timing cover in press and support. Drive out the squeeling bearing and 4bolt flange from the inside.
- Turn timing cover over (outisde facing up) and then press the Ford bearing and flange into the timing cover with a little anti-seize.
-The all important measurement is that the outside face of the drive flange (where it contacts the pulley) must sit 11mm from the outside of the timing cover (image3).
-This will ensure the belt will run true.
-Reassemble.


OPTION 3: You can purchase the bearing alone from a few Lrover Parts suppliers (The one I paid $130 inc freight is simply a water pump bearing with spindles hacked off- see below). This option requires no machining of spindles as it is done for you.
Press out the old bearing as above, then press in the new using your old 4 bolt flange.



OPTION 4: This is the real money saver if your 4 bolt flange is intact, timing cover is intact and you are just fighting a squeeling bearing. You can buy the water pump bearing that will do the job. I went to four Cairns bearing suppliers and finally came up trumps at AWB Bearings with a KOYO part number 88580 2RS cost $33.75. Interestingly SKF do not produce/ will not sell the part that is used in the OEM timing cover and they do not stock a generic pump bearing of the correct size ;)

-Take bearing, remove one spindle
-Cut other spindle to depth of flange broach.
-After removing the original bearing, press off the 4bolt flange and then press modified 88580 2RS and old 4bolt flange back into housing.




With all these above methods apart from replacing the cover there is a risk!
1/ The timing housing is pretty strong (possible to crack it though?)
2/ The bearings are pretty bloody strong.
3/ The flanges are **** weak.
The OEM leaves are soft- see my repair job (should be okay for a spare)
Havent pressed a new Falcon waterpump but the
one from a wrecker I was planning on using cracked when the spindle lip dug in on some roughness (can see it in picture)

Soooo take it real easy on the flanges.







THE SHORT VERSION

If I was to do this again I would know that.

OEM timing cover -$450
LRover Parts supplier -$130 (modified bearing for you- its an 88580)
EA/EB/ED Falcon Water pump - $60 (youll get a new flange)
KOYO 88580 2RS bearing - $33.75

So then I would:

1/ Remove cover.
2/ Press out dead bearing.
3/ Press off OEM flange.
4/ If it breaks buy a new falcon water pump.
or 4/ If it doesnt break buy an 88580 2RS.
or 4/ If it all goes to crap and the timing cover breaks buy a new one!


Steve

[tab]

Finally a solution - Thanks for that - well done

[wrinklearthur]

I haven't got around to it this yet, but I am going to heat the cover before removing the bearing.

To do this I am going to use; some leather gloves, a double burner gas camp stove, a suitable tray that will allow the cover to be submerged and some coolant mix ( to raise the boiling point a bit ).

Bring the fluid to boil and push the bearing out, hopefully easily as the alloy cover should expand more than the steel on the outside of the bearing, and then push the new bearing in.

I think the most critical point to watch when reinstalling the bearing and the flange, is getting the distance right from the face of the fan hub to the mounting face on the back of the cover. Has anyone already got a accurate measurement for this ?

[DeanoH]

Hi Arthur, I replaced the bearing and flange on on my 300 Tdi. The distance measurement on mine was 10.5 mm.

I used a mates 20 ton press and was particularly careful not to crack the aluminium casting. Before pressing the old bearing out I cut the old spindle just behind the cast flange with a 1 mm disc. This meant I was able to support the casting on the spindle boss to reduce the chance of cracking the casting.

The replacement Ford water pump cost me les than $40 and its machined flange was a perfect fit for the Landy viscous coupling.

I would not like to do this job without a press and suitable pieces of metal/tube to pack it up 'just right'. :)


Deano :)

[wrinklearthur]

For the flange hub removal

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/61739-300-tdi-viscous-fan-flange-removal-tool.html

.

[tim_m]

Arthur
How about using oil instead of coolant as you can get to a much higher temperature.
Tim

[d2dave]

I purchased a water pump from Repco and guess what, the bearing was about 2mm smaller in diameter than the OE. Goes to show, some times after market is not as good a quality as OE.

This was 13 months ago and I found a second hand one which felt good. It died last weekend so I am now doing it again, when I source a bearing

[wrinklearthur]

'Daisy' has just wrecked another serpentine belt by running off one of the vee's of the belt, wearing that vee completely away. I then spent ages this afternoon try everything for alignment and I think the only thing left now to do, is changing the bearing for the fan hub.
With the pulley still on, there is the barest movement when twisting the pulley from side to side, I didn't think that movement was that bad, but something isn't right to wreck a second belt the same way.

My idea with using a straight edge, may work better with a purpose built tool that misses the power steering pump pulley when swung over to the waterpump pulley from the viscous hub / fan pulley.

Again the differences in alignment are very slight, so more work making a better tool is required to get a finer measurement.

There is also a possibility that the bush or roll pin that is fitted into the rear lug of the alternator is off centre and that would skew the alternator pulley around as well.

[wrinklearthur]

Arthur
How about using oil instead of coolant as you can get to a much higher temperature.
Tim

Hi Tim

As I would be using the gas stove to heat up the liquid, I think the hot oil would be too dangerous.
.

[rick130]

I haven't got around to it this yet, but I am going to heat the cover before removing the bearing.

To do this I am going to use; some leather gloves, a double burner gas camp stove, a suitable tray that will allow the cover to be submerged and some coolant mix ( to raise the boiling point a bit ).

Bring the fluid to boil and push the bearing out, hopefully easily as the alloy cover should expand more than the steel on the outside of the bearing, and then push the new bearing in.

I think the most critical point to watch when reinstalling the bearing and the flange, is getting the distance right from the face of the fan hub to the mounting face on the back of the cover. Has anyone already got a accurate measurement for this ?

Too complicated Arthur.

All you have to do is get the cover to around 100*C with a soft flame on a blow lamp (the old spit and pop test is sufficient, when water spits and pops off the cover it's hot enough, no more heat is warranted, it will only hurt things) and the bearing will fall out.

I've replaced many bearings in race car hubs, gearboxes and diff side plates this way and it's dead simple and quick.

[wrinklearthur]

All you have to do is get the cover to around 100*C with a soft flame on a blow lamp (the old spit and pop test is sufficient, when water spits and pops off the cover it's hot enough, no more heat is warranted, it will only hurt things) and the bearing will fall out.

Thanks Rick, but that's assuming you have a suitable blow torch available, I do have one incidentally, but there are others who will only have a gas camping stove at their disposal.


I've replaced many bearings in race car hubs, gearboxes and diff side plates this way and it's dead simple and quick.

Same, but in that case of a bearing that's exposed to the elements as the fan hub bearing is, there can be a fair amount of corrosion between the alloy case and the steel bearing outer and that can take a bit of shaking loose.

The crucial point is, obtaining the exact height of the replacement bearing's hub face from the timing case covers mounting face, I am interested in what others have done here to get that measurement right.
.

[d2dave]

The crucial point is, obtaining the exact height of the replacement bearing's hub face from the timing case covers mounting face, I am interested in what others have done here to get that measurement right.
.

Authur. Open this link and look at the third photo at the bottom of post one. When I did mine 13 months ago this is what I used and it worked fine. Belt still like new.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/61474-300tdi-viscous-fan-bearing-solutions.html

[d2dave]

After an exhaustive search, I had all but given up trying to find a bearing for for my fan. I rang Koyo who could not help, but they gave me a phone number of a mob called Bearing Wholesalers.

They were able to help with a bearing. It is a generic bearing that has a spigot on each end. He said that it is designed for a lot of different applications, one being industrial pumps. For this reason it should be available well into the future.

He also told me that the spigots were not hardened as they are designed to be cut to suit different applications, so can be cut with a hacksaw.

The part number is FPS 72. Although Koyo could not help me he said that they have a P/N C9DE8530C.

The bloke I spoke to was very helpful. His name is Shane and the contact number is 94662377. The cost was $35

[d2dave]

WARNING ABOUT MY PREVIOUS POST. I have just removed the old bearing from the housing and to my horror I have found that the spigot at the front of the bearing is only 16 mm. My old bearing came out of a Falcon water pump and the rear spigot(the one I cut off) is 18mm.

As I had not removed the pulley flange I just assumed it was 18mm. Any one who has access to a lathe could machine it to 16mm.

Below is the bearing in question. As it is now Saturday I have to wait until Monday to ring to see if there one with a 16mm shaft. I will not be holding my breath though.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2695/img8028vc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/img8028vc.jpg/)

[bee utey]

You probably want the FPS61 universal bearing, that has a 16mm (15.918mm) shaft and a 30mm OD body. Here's a list of w/p bearing sizes I gorgled up (not including FPS61 I just measured one of mine):

Automotive Bearings - Water Pump - Nationwide Group (http://www.nwideuk.com/bearings/automotive-water-pump.asp)

[d2dave]

No this is no good. The outer diameter of the original is 38mm, which is what my replacement is. It is just the spigot where the fan hub fits is wrong.

[Spel1]

Just had the timing cover off to do the timing belt and decided to do the front pulley bearing - the old one wasn't squealing but it was very dry and had a fair bit of movement (at 385k km). I followed the advice from roverrescue and bought a new EB Falcon water pump. Just as well, as the puller that I made for taking the old flange off did not work at all, it put a lot of pressure on the flange threads and the thing snapped in half. In future, I would advise first cutting off the flange through the shaft, (underneath the flange), then just pressing out the remaining portion in the press. That way you wont be over stressing the TC cover, and you will probably end up with a spare flange. The old bearing is toast anyway so there is no ultimate damage being done.

Other notes:
The new Ford (EA, EB, ED) bearing I got from Burson's fit perfectly. It is made by Motorgear, part number WP1040. Cost $71 (on 25/04/2013)

Install: To get the flange height right, measure the thickness of the new flange (in this case 9mm) leaves 2mm to play with. The original measurement of the flange height in my TC cover was a hair under the quoted 11mm measured on a digital caliper - on a standard caliper it would look spot on I guess. Anyway, I found some 2mm material (a bit of aluminium flat bar in this case), and used it when pressing the new bearing and flange assembly into place - basically sat it on top of the TC cover nose, so when pressing in the assembly it acted as a stop, leaving the flange height at exactly 11mm. (If your new flange is 8mm, then use a 3mm spacer etc).

I did use a really big socket under the cover as support when pressing to remove any stress from the aluminium - all the pressure was on the back of the thick core of the TC cover.

I can say it was a job worth doing, along with the new AC tensioner and idler bearings that run on the cover, the engine now sounds very nice - no whirring etc.

Finally, the boss of this new flange is just a hair too tight in the pulley, would have been too tight a fit I think - I relieved the inside hole a fraction (gently using a die grinder, then finishing with light abrasive paper). Made sure I installed using some anti-seize.

[extreme4x4ms]

big trouble finding it to be replaced

[wrinklearthur]

big trouble finding it to be replaced

I would like to know practically the problem.
Is your problem the finding of a suitable bearing?

Same question translated to Italian.

Mi piacerebbe sapere in pratica il problema. è il tuo problema il ritrovamento di un cuscinetto adatto?

.

[onyamatey]

Hello ladies and gents,

I've read all the replies to this original thread and I have my own little story to tell on this topic.
Firstly can I say that I am a highly experienced diesel mechanic with 25 years experience on everything from Land Rovers, to Caterpillar mining trucks. I have 3 Land Rovers, all with 300tdi's and I've done all the fan bearings without any problems.

The part number mentioned earlier, Koyo 88580 2RS, It's actually 885802 RS. The 885802 bearing is a good number listed with different manufacturers, but try getting your hands on one at a reasonable price. If you are game to source one direct from China then go for it.... I'm not.

Now this bearing we need, it's not metric, it's imperial. The dimensions are 38.19mm OD, 53.975mm outer race length, 15.926mm shaft diameter. In imperial this equates to 1.5" diameter, 2 1/8" outer race length and 5/8" shaft diameter.
For Land Rover to mount a fan pulley to the front timing case of the tdi they had to approach a bearing manufacturer for an exclusive licensed deal. But why reinvent the wheel by manufacturing a whole new metric bearing for a metric engine when the cheapest and easiest way was to use an endless supply of existing imperial bearings that will do the job.

I've done all this research on bearings years ago because I found the bearing shops to be useless, so to cut a long story short, just about every single John Deere tractor water pump out there uses the bearing we are looking for.
I hate seeing my fellow Land Rover friends being ripped off by purchasing $70 aftermarket (Chinese) Ford Falcon water pumps etc, or $100 bearings off ebay. So save yourself a lot of time and money, go to your local John Deere parts store and purchase a genuine JD9257 water pump bearing. The last one I bought a couple of months back cost $26aud
I can guarantee 100% that it is a genuine Japanese made Koyo bearing in a John Deere box.

You will need to cut the excess shaft spindles off to the correct length required. I have a lathe in my shed which makes life easy to get it 100% right.
Now, if you somehow damage the timing case or pulley flange then you are doing it wrong, or don't have the right tools. Heating aluminium isn't always a good idea either because it's unnecessary and it can cause warpage. There won't be any corrosion between the bearing and timing cover either because it's a perfect pressed fit so how can water and other contamination ever get in there in the first place ? This bearing will press out perfectly (cold) if you are using the right tools. Sorry but I can't put 25 years of trade experience on how to do it into an online post.

I hope this helps, and I hope it puts an end to the bearing mystery.

[wrinklearthur]

Thanks Onyamatey, I have taken the liberty to prune your posting down a bit.


The part number --- Koyo --- 885802 RS. --- Imperial, 1.5" diameter, 2 1/8" outer race length and 5/8" shaft diameter.

--- just about every single John Deere tractor water pump out there uses the bearing we are looking for.
--- The last one I bought a couple of months back cost $26aud
I can guarantee 100% that it is a genuine Japanese made Koyo bearing in a John Deere box.
You will need to cut the excess shaft spindles off to the correct length required.--- lathe --- to get it 100% right.

This is a spot on bit of information, well worth printing out and stapling into your parts book or work shop manual.


Heating aluminium isn't always a good idea either because it's unnecessary and it can cause warpage. --- This bearing will press out perfectly (cold) if you are using the right tools.


I haven't got around to it this yet, but I am going to heat the cover before removing the bearing.

To do this I am going to use; some leather gloves, a double burner gas camp stove, a suitable tray that will allow the cover to be submerged and some coolant mix ( to raise the boiling point a bit ).

Bring the fluid to boil and push the bearing out, hopefully easily as the alloy cover should expand more than the steel on the outside of the bearing, and then push the new bearing in.



Point taken about the warpage, but I have seen on steel to alloy, a reaction between the two metals, all be it only shallow, that bond can take a lot of pressure to crack.
With a twenty ton press and some nicely made die's, I have seen alloy mushroom before the bearing started to give.
Warming the alloy with boiling water could then be the only option to someone with out a workshop press.


I think the most critical point to watch when reinstalling the bearing and the flange, is getting the distance right from the face of the fan hub to the mounting face on the back of the cover. Has anyone already got a accurate measurement for this ?

How did you go about getting that measurement spot on?

And Welcome aboard to the forum, if you haven't done so yet, find your way over to the introductions thread and say hi.

.

[rick130]

FWIW 100*C wont warp a case IMO and is far less likely to crack a housing as can sometime happen when press fitting steel into aluminium.

[d2dave]

FWIW 100*C wont warp a case IMO and is far less likely to crack a housing as can sometime happen when press fitting steel into aluminium.

I have to agree here. My self being a retired spanner, I have heated hundreds of alloy housings and never had a problem.

[workingonit]

Good info onyamatey.

My experience. Second hand Disco1 Tdi300.

Slightly loose fan bearing. One of the four lobes on the stubb axle also broken. Advice from someone who patches/rebuilds the Tdi300 timing covers as part of their living said people leave replacement of bad bearing too late and risk shearing off part of the housing.

Tried a number of places for the bearing, no luck.

Spoke to MR Automotive about getting a bearing. They asked if I had any broken lobes. Said they supply a better quality shaft with stronger lobes and bearing already in place. Gulped at the price, somewhere under $200 from memory, but what the heck. I'd probably buy another one, but get a discount for repeat customage :)

Tried setting the timing cover up in a cheap press to remove the old bearing – too fiddly in a basic home shop. In the end I craddled the timing cover in my left arm (I'm right handed) like you would hold a baby (sorry for the analogy), such that the back was in my view and the front was facing the ground. Placed an appropriate sized socket on the back of the bearing and with a medium hammer started giving the socket a few hard pounds. After about four whacks the bearing showed some very slight movement. Continued pounding, with removal just getting easier and easier. Make sure your socket has clearance :)

I put the new bearing with shaft in the freezer (fridge would probably do). Put the timing cover in the sun for half an hour.

To install the bearing.

Do not simply support the timing cover only by the edges and at the same time try inputting the bearing. You risk breaking the centre of your cover.

I made a pedestal out of a very short piece of pipe by sitting it upright on the concrete floor, then placed a small scrap of plate on top of the pipe. I sat the timing cover on the pedestal, such that the external face of the cover was up – with the pipe and scrap plate sitting squarely under the bearing hole - think of a mushroom. My method left the edges of the cover in the air with all support directly under the point into which the bearing was being inserted. Grabbed the cold stub axle with bearing already fitted by manufacturer, and tapped it into place. The scrap steel cap on top of the pipe stopped the bearing insertion flush with the inside of the timing cover. Job done and less fuss than I thought it would be.

PS found this

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/61739-300-tdi-viscous-fan-flange-removal-tool.html

[halling]

Hi All,

The wisdom of this forum has gone as far as Denmark and I have been following the topic of replacing the fan bearing with great interest.

I have 300 tdi with a screaming bearing and it is about time to do something about it.

I have located a JD 9257 bearing in Denmark and my plan is to cut the shaft below the flange, press out the bearing from the cover and afterwards press out the remaining part of the shaft from the flange.

I am a bit in doubt regarding the installation process - is it press in the new bearing into the cover, and the afterwards press in the flange over the shaft or?

If i follow the process descreption above how do make sure the height of the flange is correct. I know the number of mm it should be above the cover, but i fear that it will be difficult to control the press so precisly?

Thanks in advance.

Christopher Halling

[workingonit]

Hi Christopher.

You say 'cut' the shaft below the flange. Do you mean 'pull' the flange? Pulling the flange would leave shaft in one piece. Maybe I'm not understanding your description.

Have you considered trying my way first to remove the flange/shaft/bearing in one movement?

[halling]

Hi

After as the bearing has failed my idea was to cut the shaft under the flange in order to ge a nice leveled surface when pushing out the bearing and secondly I would not have to find an old viscoses to make a tool from, but could use the press to remove the last piece of the shaft and I could support the flange with a piece of tube.

[halling]

I addition to my reply above - a important peices of information is that my new bearing does not come with a flange, so I have to reuse the old flange.

Thanks for the help.

[workingonit]

Hi Christopher.

For me the flange is the part with the four screw holes. Looks like it can be pulled off the shaft, but I do not.

What tools do you actually have? To me it sounds like you might only need a hammer, some sockets, and a puller.

[workingonit]

67452

To enlarge picture, right click, open in new tab.

[workingonit]

Am I missing something. The statistics say this three page thread has had over 6,000 views?!

[halling]

Good drawing

As far as i see it I would have to remove the flang from the old shaft and press it on to the new bearing/shaft. Am i correct?

[workingonit]

Correct - if you have a new shaft. But you could also use the old if you don't cut it.

From your email I am not sure if you are attempting to use the old shaft or a new one.

When you purchased bearing JD 9257 did you also buy a new shaft? Does part number JD 9257 = bearing and shaft?

Essentially you must have a flange, a shaft, and a bearing. Don't cut your old shaft if you do not have a new one.

When I made my repair the flange, shaft and bearing were all assembled as one piece by the manufacturer.

From what the manufacturer sent me, it was expected I would line up the bearing end to the hole and either use a press, or hit gently with a hammer and drift, on the top of the shaft to force the bearing home. I chose the hammer and drift. The shaft did not slide out of the bearing at any stage – I get the impression that the shaft in bearing is much tighter than the bearing is into timing cover.

In your case (if you don't have a new shaft) I would try to get the whole assembly out in one piece as per my diagram.

Remove the old bearing but not the flange.

Drive the shaft with its flange into the new bearing. Insert as I did, above, as if it all came assembled from manufacturer.

Alternatively, and again as above, get the whole assembly out in one piece as per my diagram and leave the flange on the shaft. Pull the old bearing. But in this example drive bearing into timing cover. Drive in the shaft, but before you do, put something under the bearing to stop the bearing from traveling into the timing cover further than it should.

Or, take the whole think to a garage :)

Not sure how much more I can help you.

[workingonit]

Just occurred to me as I was nodding off to sleep for the night - are you trying to replace the bearing while the timing cover is still on the engine?

If so, then not the way I would do it. Anyone else tackled this while cover still on engine?

[halling]

From the pictures i have recieved the new bearing comes with a new shaft, mad my intention was to move the old flang to the new shaft. In the connection i was wondering if the right procedure was to install the flang frist (onto the new shaft) and then install the bearing, or install then new bearing and then flang.

[roverrescue]

Halling,
from this website
JD9257 - Bearing, Water Pump Shaft for John Deere | TractorJoe.com (http://www.tractorjoe.com/jd9257-bearing-water-pump-shaft-1)
I see that the bearing you have sourced will be similar to the KOYO double spindle bearing mentioned in the original post.

You will then need to do the following as mentioned in the first post:

OPTION 4: This is the real money saver if your 4 bolt flange is intact, timing cover is intact and you are just fighting a squeeling bearing. You can buy the water pump bearing that will do the job. I went to four Cairns bearing suppliers and finally came up trumps at AWB Bearings with a KOYO part number 88580 2RS cost $33.75. Interestingly SKF do not produce/ will not sell the part that is used in the OEM timing cover and they do not stock a generic pump bearing of the correct size

-Take bearing, remove one spindle
-Cut other spindle to depth of flange broach.
-After removing the original bearing, press off the 4bolt flange and then press modified 88580 2RS and old 4bolt flange back into housing.




So - in step by step,

1/ Take some measurements for clearance of OEM bearing to housing, flange to face of housing and flange to face of bearing etc etc.

2/ Then press dead bearing and flange from the housing - I would NOT recommend using a hammer for this task.

3/ Then fully support the back side of the flange and press the central portion of the spindle, this will press the flange off the dead bearing.

4/ Now take your JD9257, cut off the spindle which is the wrong diameter as flush as you can to the bearing body.

5/ Cut the other spindle to the correct length (from your measurements at step one)

6/ Support the bearing and gently press the flange onto the new bearing and finally press the refurbed unit into the case.

Just be slow and careful - the flange is cast and fragile. If it breaks you will need to source or manufacture a new one.

Steve

[halling]

Hi

Sorry for my late reply, but my computer has been upgraded to Windos 8 which has not been trouble free at all.

I have now recieved the bearing and will follow Roverrescue's step plan. By the way how did you support the cover while pressing out the bearing?

Thanks for all the help.

[d2dave]

When I did mine I supported the cover with a piece of pipe slightly larger than the outer diameter of the bearing.

The original LR flange is weak as **** and easily broken, as it is only cast. I broke mine so I used a Falcon one, which is steel and much stronger.

[MacFamily]

Guys

I would like to thank everbody who contributed to this thread, yet again AULRO community have provided fantastic information and technical advise and saved myself some coin.

I wasn't happy with the whole having to replace the cover just for a cheap bearing, so after researching and finding this thread I went to JD and purchased JD9257 cut down the correct spindle and cut off the incorrect spindle. Luckily i have a 20t press so pressing the old out and new in was never an issue, but I made a rookie error when pressing the hub flange onto the new bearing and snapped it. Being a sunday arvo and public holiday monday my options we're not favourable, so went to supercheap and looked at a falcon water pump but with a few measurements of the spindle was not convinced. So Tuesday off to see Dwayne at MR and they delivered, he showed me there Maxi drive flange and with not many options I bought it $48, considering the falcon pump was $60 and think I chose the right option. Attached is i picture of the OEM bearing next to the JD bearing after i modified it and the new flange, why they didn't manufacturer them from the factory like this beats the hell out of me.

[truckermike]

Hi guys , I'm just wondering if any one has found a source for simply just the flange that will press onto the jd 9257 ?

Thanks

[truckermike]

I should add the flange i am looking for does not need to be threaded as i am switching to thermo fan set up .

[bee utey]

I'd be taking the pulley to a wreckers and see if you can scrounge a stuffed pump off them to match. The bit that matters is the locating ledge that centres the pulley and the Ford one is very close, requires a half mm or so off it. Dead Fords aren't exactly rare.

[Disckombi]

One thing that seems to have been missed is that the shaft of the original bearing (in my case anyway) is approx 5/8in while the Koyo or JD shafts mentioned in the thread are approx 3/4in (which from checking bearing catalogues is "standard" for a 1.5 in OD water pump bearing).
So if you have managed (as I have) to get it all dismantled without breaking the original flange, it will be necessary to machine the flange to suit the Koyo/JD bearing unit.
Just something to be aware of.

[bee utey]

One thing that seems to have been missed is that the shaft of the original bearing (in my case anyway) is approx 5/8in while the Koyo or JD shafts mentioned in the thread are approx 3/4in (which from checking bearing catalogues is "standard" for a 1.5 in OD water pump bearing).
So if you have managed (as I have) to get it all dismantled without breaking the original flange, it will be necessary to machine the flange to suit the Koyo/JD bearing unit.
Just something to be aware of.

Both the Koyo bearing I bought and the Ford bearing have a 5/8" reduced shaft at the pulley end.

[AK83]

Can I just confirm that the rear of the timing cover where the bearing sits, has an access to the bearing to be pressed out.
I did my timing belt a while back and can't remember seeing access to the bearing .. but then again I didn't really take a lot of notice of it.

Or is the bearing pulled out of the case from the front?

Reason I ask is that I think there is a bearing and flange available ready made for the job, that requires no cutting, filing, chamfering, or no other hacking of any kind, and I'm just making sure I can press the bearing out easily when the time comes to do it.

And if anyone has the length value of the standard bearing.

Bearing I've found has an apparent size values of:
length = 75mm
shaft = 16mm (5/8")
diameter = 38mm (1.5")

The flange appears to be identical to the LR forged type(4 armed) and not the machined Falcon type.

Bearing is a VE/VF/VG(95-00) Transit bearing that appears to be identical in size specs to the LR type and fitment is similarly pressed into a case, in the the Transit it's the oil pump cover case.
The bearing has a sealed rear end, without the shaft extending out the back like in roverrescue's first post of the original SKF bearing.

There's is a parts store(H&B Auto parts) just a minute or two up the road from my place that sells Transit van parts, so I'll pop in and check the parts out.

Prices are about $58 for the bearing and $40something for the flange. ie. about $100 all up for both parts, but are separate.

I reckon it's very likely that the parts in the Transit are the same as the 300Tdi, going by the quoted dimensions.
So it seems where LR refuse to sell these bearing/flange parts, hopefully Ford are an option.
Note I've tried to track this part down in Ford parts searches, but have no luck at all.

If someone else wants to have a peek, or has access to better parts searching via Ford parts catalogues, the part numbers I've found are:

Bearing: 974F- 8A641-AB
Flange: 864F-8K600-AC

My thinking is simple: if the parts are the same(which I reckon 99.999% likely to be), then get the parts, press flange onto bearing, press bearing into case, and done .. no mucking about(which I prefer not to have to do).
Then, hopefully find cheaper parts via Ford or something.

I'm also going to ask at my local R&E Auto if they can get these VE/VF/VG Transit parts as well.

[jboot51]

The bearing can be pushed from either direction.
I push the bearing from the front as there is more room to support the housing from the back.

[AK83]

The bearing can be pushed from either direction.
I push the bearing from the front as there is more room to support the housing from the back.


[thumbsupbig]

Awesome!
So the rear of the timing case is clear for the bearing to pass.
Like I said, I had the case off, cleaned it out and all that .... just can't remember seeing the backside of the bearing.

I'm thinking that if you push the bearing from the front, out towards the rear of the timing case, you need to remove the flange first?

[jboot51]

The rear of the case is clear.
I removed the flange using the nut from an old viscous.
It may pay to heat the flange as I have since broken 2 flanges
Have a look here I posted some pics.
300 Tdi Viscous Bearing Replacement with pics (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-and-tutorials/223079-300-tdi-viscous-bearing-replacement-pics.html)

[AK83]

[thumbsupbig]

Yeah, I remember seeing your thread on the bearing replacement .. just couldn't find it again.

Going by your measurements of 47.25mm and 26mm for the bearing body and shaft, adds up to 73.5mm total +- 1.5mm is close to the 75mm length of the Transit bearing .. so I'm even more confident that the Transit bearing and flange is going to be the same as the LR part/s.

I think I kept my old viscous unit, so could probably make up a puller with it .. otherwise may just find some odd bits to make one up. (eg. find a large nut to fit, weld it to some plate, drill hole into plate and thread it .. etc)

[Disckombi]

Both the Koyo bearing I bought and the Ford bearing have a 5/8" reduced shaft at the pulley end.

Looks like I stand corrected - I was going by dimensions shown in catalogue.
Looks like I may investigate the Ford options as I've just been quoted $63.78 + gst for the 885802 bearing, which they can't get till Monday

[bee utey]

Looks like I stand corrected - I was going by dimensions shown in catalogue.
Looks like I may investigate the Ford options as I've just been quoted $63.78 + gst for the 885802 bearing, which they can't get till Monday

My take on the job:

I changed a 300 TDi fan bearing (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/209572-i-changed-300-tdi-fan-bearing.html)

[jboot51]

The length of the bearing is not that critical as there is plenty of room behind the cover. The jd bearing protrudes about 5mm. What is critical is the measurement from the front face of the cover to the front face of the flange as this will locate the pulley and therefore the belt alignment.
Just be carefull to not apply too much force to the original flange as they are cast and will break if you look at it funny.

[AK83]

The length of the bearing is not that critical as there is plenty of room behind the cover. ....

Yep, I've understood that part.
Reason for my enquiry re the length is to ascertain if this Transit bearing is the same as the LR bearing.
Looks identical, as does the flange.

Without taking mine out, I have point of reference to compare to the LR type if I go to the parts place to view the Transit bearing(and flange).
Flange is easy, I can mount it to the pulley or something.

Mine has a mil or two of movement in the bearing itself, but has had since I got the D1, 18+ months ago.
So looking to have the parts all ready to go and when I go to do it, I won't be stuck if something goes pear shaped. D1 is my daily .. and I currently have no access to any other vehicle.

[Disckombi]

Both the Koyo bearing I bought and the Ford bearing have a 5/8" reduced shaft at the pulley end.


My take on the job:

I changed a 300 TDi fan bearing (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/209572-i-changed-300-tdi-fan-bearing.html)

Well the Falcon bearing wins - just picked up an EA water pump $40.
Now to get it all assembled.
Cheers

[Disckombi]

Just finished fitting the EA Ford water pump bearing - all went smoothly.
Measured the old bearing and cartridge length was 47mm and overall 73mm. Ford cartridge is 54mm long so protrudes 7mm into cover plus another 5mm for the cut-off stub shaft.
Regards removing the original LR flange - I did it by placing a couple of strips of 3mm flat, ground out to fit around the shaft, between the back of the flange and the face of the timing cover. Then supported inside of cover with a big socket and pressed the shaft inward out of the flange and continued to press the bearing itself out.
Re-assembly as previously described in thread, pressing bearing in from back and then pressing on flange

Cheers

[jboot51]

Can you post the brand and part number of the ea ford pump.
I need a spare bearing and flange.

[Disckombi]

Water pump was GMB brand part no. W1040.
As mentioned elsewhere on thread, to avoid any chance of damage to beating, I split the pump casing with angle grinder.
As to using the Ford flange, I think there is something on the thread, but as it is a bit meatier than the LR flange might need some mods to achieve correct height of mounting face off timing case.
Cheers

[Fattima]

Did mine today, I was changing the cambelt and found the bearing was notchy (also found the AC tensioner bearing shot too).
Anyway thought I would pass on what I found.

If I was to do it again I would buy the John Deere bearing as the most time was taken getting the bearing out of the Falcon pump. I split the casing of the Falcon pump by cutting with a reciprocating saw and then using a chisel. I had a hell of a time getting the Falcon flange off. The fange was difficult to remove off the old bearing too. I found it easier to cut the shaft off the old bearing with the flange attached then put flange in the press and push out the bearing stub.

I used a hot air gun to heat the front cover while applying pressure with a Supercheap press, I found an old weight off an exercise machine had the correct size hole to push the bearing through (I have a few hanging around I use for ballast in my race car). Anyway applied pressure and applied heat then it let go with a bang.

Trimmed up the Falcon bearing and put it in the freezer then headed of to the pub. Couple of hours later got home, heated the housing and the bearing pushed in pretty easily.
150637150638150639