Serial numbers... again

[TeZZaP]

Hi guys, I've been trying to work out what engine I have, its number starts with '151xxxxxx', which, according to this site (link below), makes it a Series II engine. The chassis number that came with the vehicle (plate only, there was no actual chassis number stamped on the chassis), was clearly an SIII... is there anyway to tell either (a) what chassis it is, and/or (b) what engine it is by its features?

[I may have to change forums if I really have a SII!]

TeZZa

Land Rover, Range Rover engine numbers (http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/engno.htm)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Series 3 chassis are easy to tell, the chassis rails are 2 pressed halves seam welded in the middle of the top and bottom of the box. All the other series Land Rovers have chassis rails where there are 4 plates welded together at the corners.

In Australia the chassis number is the determining factor in vehicle identification and the reason that chassis swaps are awkward for registration.

Diana

[Shonky]

The Chassis number on Australian vehicles is stamped on the rear left spring hanger, but most sources will tell you that it is on the front right as this was the location on British vehicles.

You may already know this, but I just wanted to make sure you were checking the right spot for a chassis number. I got caught out by this myself!

[Phoenix]

is it a 4 cylinder vehicle? It may just have had a replacement engine from a series 2 fitted at some stage!

[TeZZaP]

The Chassis number on Australian vehicles is stamped on the rear left spring hanger, but most sources will tell you that it is on the front right as this was the location on British vehicles.

You may already know this, but I just wanted to make sure you were checking the right spot for a chassis number. I got caught out by this myself!

Thanks, but yes I've already played that game and its definitely not there (either front or rear hangers; back to bare metal and zilch!)

Here are some pics;

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That is a series 2 series 2a chassis.

The chassis number, if on the rear is on the rear shackle chassis bracket, not on the spring hanger.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/722.jpg

[TeZZaP]

That is a series 2 series 2a chassis.

Wow, thanks interesting! A bit of history is probably needed here; I bought it as a rolling chassis; engine/gearbox plus axles all in place, but no body panels. The guys that sold it to me said it was a SIII and hunted around he's yard and gave me all the SIII panels for it. The chassis number I have came from the makers plate that was loose but with the vehicle (ie not attached to any panels). As mentioned, the chassis number is missing from the actual chassis and it had no VIN#/compliance plate. I wonder if it ever had SIII body parts or whether the guy was wrong (or was told the wrong info from whomever he got it from) and I've been working on a 'genuine' SII all along!

So, to recap, its an SII engine, on a SII/SIIa chassis, is there anyway to tell what series the rest of the running gears is? ie the Axles/gearbox/Diff?

How exciting!

[TeZZaP]

That is a series 2 series 2a chassis.

The chassis number, if on the rear is on the rear shackle chassis bracket, not on the spring hanger.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/722.jpg

That area has had work done in the past.

See this thread for the missing chassis number saga;

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-3/57367-chassis-number-missing.html

[Lotz-A-Landies]

All the major components (chassis, engine, gearbox, axle casings) have serial numbers the general rule is that the number on the major assembly is the same as the RHD Home market vehicle of similar configuration. ie CKD 109s 4 cyl will use the RHD 4cyl 109" home market number, a CKD 6cyl will have the the RHD 6cyl Home market number etc etc.

On the gearbox the number is usually stamped on the side of the selector cover.

On axle assemblies it is on the top of the long side of the axle casing.

Engine numbers you know about.

Diana

addit: if you cant find a number, some could be tempted to find a vehicle with a rusted out chassis, then buy the ID plate and the bit of chassis where the number is getting a receipt for the whole vehicle. Then stamp the salvaged number in the correct place.

[Shonky]

The chassis number, if on the rear is on the rear shackle chassis bracket, not on the spring hanger.

Thanks Diana. I knew what I meant! :p

[TeZZaP]

All the major components (chassis, engine, gearbox, axle casings) have serial numbers the general rule is that the number on the major assembly is the same as the RHD Home market vehicle of similar configuration. ie CKD 109s 4 cyl will use the RHD 4cyl 109" home market number, a CKD 6cyl will have the the RHD 6cyl Home market number etc etc.

On the gearbox the number is usually stamped on the side of the selector cover.

On axle assemblies it is on the top of the long side of the axle casing.

Engine numbers you know about.

Diana

Thanks, I've got the numbers... but waht do I do with them! Is there a source that I can compare my number to which may tell me what type of vehicle they 'should' be from?

TeZZa

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks, I've got the numbers... but waht do I do with them! Is there a source that I can compare my number to which may tell me what type of vehicle they 'should' be from?

TeZZa
Yes the OEM workshop and parts manuals have the numbers.

Or

Classic Land Rovers (http://www.classiclandrovers.no/?page=documents/vinlookup&)

You may have to use the assembly in the field for the VIN if it doesn't accept it add any letter a, b, c, d, e, up to h after the number to see if it recognises.

Diana

[TeZZaP]

Yes the OEM workshop and parts manuals have the numbers.

Or

Classic Land Rovers (http://www.classiclandrovers.no/?page=documents/vinlookup&)

You may have to use the assembly in the field for the VIN if it doesn't accept it add any letter a, b, c, d, e, up to h after the number to see if it recognises.

Diana

It recognises the chassis number, but then it should, its taken from a pucker Land Rover plate after all!

All the other numbers (Engine/gearbox/Axles) it just comes up with 'database is currently not complete'... that leaves me with the manuals I guess - I have the SIII 'Repair Operation Manual' and 'Parts Manual' on CD but not for the SII, do you know if they are available online anywhere?

[TeZZaP]

Interestedly, and not to doubt anyone(!) (or to derail my own thread too much), the other SIII chassis I have here has the same construction technique and has a SIII chassis number stamped on the rear passenger shackle bracket. Are we sure that all SIII's had the 2 pressed half construction; were some of the early SIII's still using the 'old' style of welding the chassis?

[JDNSW]

Interestedly, and not to doubt anyone(!) (or to derail my own thread too much), the other SIII chassis I have here has the same construction technique and has a SIII chassis number stamped on the rear passenger shackle bracket. Are we sure that all SIII's had the 2 pressed half construction; were some of the early SIII's still using the 'old' style of welding the chassis?

My understanding (which is not necessarily correct) is that the change in construction method of the chassis from four plates to pressed halves was some time after the change to S3 from 2a for the 109, but that ALL 88s had the original four plate construction.

John

[TeZZaP]

My understanding (which is not necessarily correct) is that the change in construction method of the chassis from four plates to pressed halves was some time after the change to S3 from 2a for the 109, but that ALL 88s had the original four plate construction.

John

OK, so your saying that all S3 SWBs should have the 4 plate construction on their chassis, or am I reading your post wrong?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Tim

I can't see the rear of your chassis in the pics, but the body you have is the series 3 gold colour which almost always indicates a 109" and that was the basis of my comment.

If you have an 88" I may be leading you up the proverbial garden path with my comment about pressed halves. Sorry I wasn't so precise in my information.

Diana :BigCry:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

:oops2: Thats a very short wheelbase crossmember there!

[TeZZaP]

Tim

I can't see the rear of your chassis in the pics, but the body you have is the series 3 gold colour which almost always indicates a 109" and that was the basis of my comment.

If you have an 88" I may be leading you up the proverbial garden path with my comment about pressed halves. Sorry I wasn't so precise in my information.

Diana :BigCry:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/series-3/10170d1218682424-serial-numbers-again-dsc_0001.jpg

:oops2: Thats a very short wheelbase crossmember there!

The body is not from this vehicle... so not a good guide to base anything on!

So (I think), my question still stands; how to tell a SII SWB chassis from a SIII SWB chassis? And how to tell a SII engine (and gearbox) from a SIII?

You mentioned the rear cross member; I'll take a pic tomorrow and post for you. What are you looking for?

PS Thanks for all your responses guys, much appreciated and very interesting.

[Blknight.aus]

Wow, thanks interesting! A bit of history is probably needed here; I bought it as a rolling chassis; engine/gearbox plus axles all in place, but no body panels. The guys that sold it to me said it was a SIII and hunted around he's yard and gave me all the SIII panels for it. The chassis number I have came from the makers plate that was loose but with the vehicle (ie not attached to any panels). As mentioned, the chassis number is missing from the actual chassis and it had no VIN#/compliance plate. I wonder if it ever had SIII body parts or whether the guy was wrong (or was told the wrong info from whomever he got it from) and I've been working on a 'genuine' SII all along!

So, to recap, its an SII engine, on a SII/SIIa chassis, is there anyway to tell what series the rest of the running gears is? ie the Axles/gearbox/Diff?

How exciting!


your gearbox is a II/IIa the clutch is a giveaway for that as is the spring holding down the breather cap on top of the gearbox...

the serial number for the box should be under the small tower with the plate held on by 2 screws at the back of the box on the same side as the tcase....

[Aaron IIA]

The engine number tells me that it is a SII engine. The early thermostat design is also sought after by people who want a genuine SII engine. The Gearbox is also early, as it still has a dip stick. I know SI did have a dip stick, and that SIIA did not have a dip stick.

Just checked the manual (factory, SII and SIIA), and it states that gearbox dipsticks and top filler plugs were used in "early gearboxes". This would indicate that you have a SII gearbox.

All of this combined shows a complete SII power pack. I would then suggest that it is probably a SII chasis, with SIII panels.

Aaron.

[Aaron IIA]

The chasis cross member just behind the gearbox appears to be a replacement. Every SII and SIIA 88" that I have seen has a "two pressed halves" cross member, with the rest of the chasis being plate welded. This cross member appears to be rolled. There appears to be no seam on the two top edges. Or would this indicate a SIII chasis?

Aaron.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/722.jpg
Tim

They look like very straight ute cab roofs in the background! :) :) :)

Pity you are so far away, I may have popped around and "half-inched" one for my Series IIB! :D :D

Diana

[LoveMyV8County]

Yes the OEM workshop and parts manuals have the numbers.

Or

Classic Land Rovers (http://www.classiclandrovers.no/?page=documents/vinlookup&)

You may have to use the assembly in the field for the VIN if it doesn't accept it add any letter a, b, c, d, e, up to h after the number to see if it recognises.

Diana

I've always used this VIN analyser CalVIN (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html). It might give more or different info than the Classic Land Rovers one. Worth a try perhaps.

[TeZZaP]

I've always used this VIN analyser CalVIN (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html). It might give more or different info than the Classic Land Rovers one. Worth a try perhaps.

I've used CalVIN for chassis numbers in the past, I didn't realise you could pop in any part number you had!

From CalVIN;

Engine = SII LWB 1959
Gearbox = SI SWB 1958
Front Axle = SIII SWB 1972-79
Rear Axle = SIII SWB 1972-79

So my main question is whether this is a SII or SIII SWB chassis, then I can decide if I'm rebuilding a SII or SIII!

I have attached a pic of the rear cross member, but I'm still not clear on what exactly is the difference between a SII and SIII SWB chassis?

[TeZZaP]

Tim

They look like very straight ute cab roofs in the background! :) :) :)

Pity you are so far away, I may have popped around and "half-inched" one for my Series IIB! :D :D

Diana

If you was closer I might even let you... I'm not sure yet if I'm going to use either of them!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I've always used this VIN analyser CalVIN (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html). It might give more or different info than the Classic Land Rovers one. Worth a try perhaps.The reason that I use Classic Land Rovers rather than Clifton - CalVIN (and have used both) is that CalVIN is not accurate for the suffix letters of Series IIB, and they also don't recognise late 1950 models without the prefix letters, knowing that CalVIN isn't accurate with those factors I don't fully trust it.

Diana

[dandlandyman]

I can't see that anyone has picked up on this... On the crossmember behind the gearbox are two upright brackets with two holes each. These are for the seatbelt mounts, and are AFAIK specific to Series 3s.
Series 3 109" chassis longitudinals are built from the two C-sections, unlike Series 1-2as. Also AFAIK, Series 3 88"s use the old type construction (an '83 model I once wrecked was like this). The engine and gearbox are from a far earlier vehicle (gearbox has a dipstick!, engine has a Solex carb). SWB Series 3 chassis numbers begin with a 9, 2a's with a 2, 1s and 2s with a 1.
Hope this helps.

Dan.
69 2a 88" pet4, 74 3 109" pet4, 68 2b FC pet6.

[UncleHo]

G'day TeZZaP :)

Well I have looked at the pics time and time again and I would agree with Dandylandyman, that it is a Series 3 chassis or very late 2a (the seatbelt mounts and the angled bracket from the front firewall outrigger to the chassis rail, for the mandatory front mudflaps, that would make it post 1968/9, but the engine and transmission is definately an early 2.25 litre fitted with a Solex Carb (1959-1967) and the gearbox has the dipstick (which was gone by1960). So I would say that it is a late SWB 2a or 3 fitted with a Series 2 motor and box, the transfer case hex head filler plug also indicates that it is an early transmission, these along with the dipstick were Series 2, & 2a up to Suffix "A" the axles would possibly be marked 141*******(letter) front & rear cases,(Ser2) or 241**** (Ser2a) if the front is from a LWB it will be 151 or 251, if they are from a Series 3 they will start with 9*********, there is no listing in my Master Parts Book as to year models just references as when parts were changed and at what axle number (IE from axle 141/151******)

Hope that is of help :)

cheers