4BD1 LR 120 Turbo?

[Rangier Rover]

Have just got home with the 4BD1 120 I have just purchased. Was a bit nervous jumping in a 19 yr old Land Rover that I didn't realy know for a 3&1/2 hour trip in the dark.:eek: We made it. Just posting this as I noticed on a long hill did not pull well as should with Turbo on it. It pulls well through the gears but won't hold power. At 80kmh in 4th(Santana) can feel a surge then when back of a bit comes clean. Has had new Filters 4000 Kms ago. I have Dyno specs here. when Turbo was fitted. 44kmh= 312nm & 35kw. 52kmh= 330nm & 44kw. 60kmh= 338nm & 54kw. 70kmh= 322nm & 60kw. 82kmh= 296nm & 62kw. 88kmh= 254nm & 61kw.
Was done by Turbo Glide Wollongong. Are these numbers what I should expect? 1st 4BD1 I've ever owned.. Tony

[justinc]

Hi Tony,

Those figures probably suggest it has a wastegated turbo, and the pumpneeds to be matched a little better to the turbo installation.

I haven't dynoed mine, but it behaved in similar fashion until I fitted a Pyro and discovered it was way under fuelled:twisted:

I wouldn't do any playing until a pyro is on there and it can be fiddled with either in the real world or on a Dyno.

Also, that surge you are feeling could be the banjo inlet fitting on the bottom of the lift pump gauze screen partially blocked. It is worth checking, even though it is a difficult one to get to.

JC

[Rangier Rover]

Fuel filters..... Has a GAV296 type fitted behind cab. On the Engine is a Fleetguard FF5231. My suplier has Ryco seems to think it should hve a Z169A or Z1277 :confused: What it best to run on these. I'd like to adapt a Cav296 so same as all our fleet here.

[Rangier Rover]

Hi Tony,

Those figures probably suggest it has a wastegated turbo, and the pumpneeds to be matched a little better to the turbo installation.

I haven't dynoed mine, but it behaved in similar fashion until I fitted a Pyro and discovered it was way under fuelled:twisted:

I wouldn't do any playing until a pyro is on there and it can be fiddled with either in the real world or on a Dyno.

Also, that surge you are feeling could be the banjo inlet fitting on the bottom of the lift pump gauze screen partially blocked. It is worth checking, even though it is a difficult one to get to.

JC Sure is wastegated set up. Has no phyro or bost guages:(
Where is the best place to fit Phyro. Is dump pipe to far away from heat?
I'll try the banjo sreen see how it goes. Thanks Tony.

[Rangier Rover]

I assume the screen filter is here:eek:http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10227&stc=1&d=1218862320
Its a bit close to engine mount. I hope I can get it out. Tony

[justinc]

Yup, thats the screen filter:eek:

Good luck, or just ring Dave (Blknight.aus) and ask him if his young bloke has yet to master THIS job. He'll have the small hands for it....:p (See his thread about 'labouring to produce a mechanic', excellent pic!:D)


Pyro should be drilled upstream of the turbo, Mine is in just before the mounting flange for the turbo.

Any chance of engine pics etc? Is it a factory turbo engine?

JC

[Rangier Rover]

Yup, thats the screen filter:eek:

Good luck, or just ring Dave (Blknight.aus) and ask him if his young bloke has yet to master THIS job. He'll have the small hands for it....:p (See his thread about 'labouring to produce a mechanic', excellent pic!:D)


Pyro should be drilled upstream of the turbo, Mine is in just before the mounting flange for the turbo.

Any chance of engine pics etc? Is it a factory turbo engine?

JC I saw Dave's new apprentice:) Great work:D
Turbo looks like a aftermarket. To neat for a factory jobie:angel:


Hard to get good pics.... I have these for now.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Tony

[DRanged]

If you get the banjo filter out leave it out and put a small in line servicable filter in the flexable fuel hose before the pump, preferably one with a clear polycarbonate body.

Justin

[Rangier Rover]

If you get the banjo filter out leave it out and put a small in line servicable filter in the flexable fuel hose before the pump, preferably one with a clear polycarbonate body.

Justin Thanks for that:cool: I would have put it back in otherwise:eek:. Has a cav296 in line now but half way back to tank. So will stick a throwa filter in close to pump. Tony

[justinc]

I saw Dave's new apprentice:) Great work:D
Turbo looks like a aftermarket. To neat for a factory jobie:angel:


Hard to get good pics.... I have these for now.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10228&stc=1&d=1218868722

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10229&stc=1&d=1218868807

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10230&stc=1&d=1218868878

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10231&stc=1&d=1218868955

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10232&stc=1&d=1218869025

Tony

Tony, that is the same turbo and manifold I have on mine, although to fit in a RRC I flipped the manifold and ran the dump pipe to the rear.

Turbo Glide did lots of conversions for these engines, and this is where I sourced a few of my parts. It is most likely the same turbo as mine too, A Garrett TB25. (They recommended it to me ) and the wastegate is set to 7.5Psi:eek: As it is non adjustable, I just disconnected it completely and set my 15psi using fuelling. (Essential to do this with a Pyro!!) I am running an intercooler, so 15psi is fine. Non intercooled, 10 to 12psi is on the edge of peak efficiency. With this setup,10 psi and upped fuelling will give a huge improvement!:twisted:

Give me a call 0408 995 635 if you need help with anything!


JC

[Rangier Rover]

Thanks JC. I will sort the surge problem for now and see how it goes. Unfortunately I have to keep it fairly bullet proof as will be the main work truck here other than a Toyo HJ75, HJ45 and Hj47. Land Rover S111 X2 and S11a X2 . Obviously the 120 will leave the others behind;) So is earmarked as No 1:eek:. Better off road, Better on fuel and more load space etc. I just want it for a TOY:(. But has to go to work.:( Dont worry I will have it 90% of the time:). I just hate having other people using my truck in the bush:( Be good if it could be governed back for low range work while its out of my sight. May be a few zippy ties on cable:twisted:
I will sure fit pyro and boost gauges. Not sure how yet as dash is booked out with Volt, Aux Fuel Clock etc. I dont want pods on dash. Spoil it:(
Sure will look you up if I need any thing to sort this one. Thanks Tony

[Dougal]

That sleeve nut on the wastegate rod (in pic 3) is used to adjust the boost.

Get thee some gauges (boost and pyro) to see what's happening.

[justinc]

That sleeve nut on the wastegate rod (in pic 3) is used to adjust the boost.

Get thee some gauges (boost and pyro) to see what's happening.


Well seen Dougal,

I must be blind:o. Mine is a solid rod, and is set to 7.5psi. I didn't even look properly at the pic obviously:(

Shortening the rod will give you more boost, but fuel will have to be adjusted aswell.

As Dougal says, gauges, gauges, gauges!

JC

[wovenrovings]

Just a tip with that banjo fitting under the injector pump. If you find it really close to the engine mount, check the mount is not broken over on the engine. Even made a special spanner before i looked there in my case. D'oh.

Dan.

[Dougal]

Well seen Dougal,

I must be blind:o. Mine is a solid rod, and is set to 7.5psi. I didn't even look properly at the pic obviously:(

Shortening the rod will give you more boost, but fuel will have to be adjusted aswell.

As Dougal says, gauges, gauges, gauges!

JC

Do you think the exhaust pressure is blowing your wastegate open?
I cut the rod on mine and welded in a nice adjustable threaded section. With the wastegate adjusted up to give 20psi boost it's got a hell of a lot of preload on it, spring can't have much travel left.:D

If the bracket bolts to the back of the compressor, you can just use a stack of washers and longer bolts to get more boost.

[Rangier Rover]

Looks like I'm up for Boast and Pyro again:( I'll get VDO they dear but good.
Not sure how to fit them yet as has to be out of harms way.
Workers that chuck things at the dash:mad:.
See how it goes with a tune before looking into intercooler. I put an intercooler on my 4D56T mitsu (Have Pics) and made more improvement than the Turbo its self. I put a spacer under waste gate on it as well then played with fuel. The 4D56 made a heap of power but got to hot on Phyro. 850deg after the Turbo. It didn't last long. Now runs 650 on the dump pipe. Would be a lot warmer pre Turbo:eek:.
As advised I will try to fit phyro pre turbo on the Isuzu. I just don't want it to blow head gaskets o, Drop valves or kill Turbos etc. Will order boast and phyro tomorrow so we can try to tune it. Thanks Tony

[justinc]

Looks like I'm up for Boast and Pyro again:( I'll get VDO they dear but good.
Not sure how to fit them yet as has to be out of harms way.
Workers that chuck things at the dash:mad:.
See how it goes with a tune before looking into intercooler. I put an intercooler on my 4D56T mitsu (Have Pics) and made more improvement than the Turbo its self. I put a spacer under waste gate on it as well then played with fuel. The 4D56 made a heap of power but got to hot on Phyro. 850deg after the Turbo. It didn't last long. Now runs 650 on the dump pipe. Would be a lot warmer pre Turbo:eek:.
As advised I will try to fit phyro pre turbo on the Isuzu. I just don't want it to blow head gaskets o, Drop valves or kill Turbos etc. Will order boast and phyro tomorrow so we can try to tune it. Thanks Tony

Workers that chuck things at the dash!!!????

You're not letting anyone else near your rig are you:eek::eek::eek::eek:???


JC

[Rangier Rover]

Workers that chuck things at the dash!!!????

You're not letting anyone else near your rig are you:eek::eek::eek::eek:???


JC
I'm afraid so:( May be I need another Yota:angel:. I purchased it for a farm hack :eek: This 120 is to nice to trash:( . Has a few minor isues but now have realized I'd like it for my self.:) I'm fitting some armour to it to it shortly. Diff guards,Stearing guards etc. May be a hidden camera:angel: Tony

[Rangier Rover]

Done the fuel system over today. Got the fuel suply to lift pump banjo out and no screen filter:mad::mad:. So pulled all lines off and blew out. All new filters. It still surges at 2800 rpm:(. On road test on hill can lug well up to 2200 rpm then not so good. Under light load will get to 2800 and surge. If reved with no load hits govenor at 3400rpm and runs clean.:confused:. What is going on here? Pressurized lines and can't find any leaks. Got me buggered:( Tony

[Rangier Rover]

I may have to fit the phyro post turbo:( As I'm not prepared tp pull the manifold off to drill it. If I get it close to the turbo should be ok?. Just have to allow for temp drop when tuning.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10333&stc=1&d=1219535969

I've changed the exhast a bit. Only 2 1/2" though. :( IT has made a huge improvement in mid rev range and has a huge turbo whistle even at idle:angel:.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10334&stc=1&d=1219536011



Have any of you got pics of pyro and boost fitments? Thanks Tony.

[rovercare]

Mine is post turbo, much to JC's disgust:angel:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/01/696.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/163.jpg

[EchiDna]

quick OT question Matt - do the bits of stainless tube have a bead rolled into them to help hold the hoses on? or are they just straight? if straight, any problems with hose movements?
Cheers,

[Rangier Rover]

Thanks for pics Matt.:) Sorry JC.... I'm doing the same:angel:

Tried the 33s off my old Rangie on... The engine pipe is not in a good place on these. No chance of 8" -25 rims:( let alone 35s.:mad:
Would be good if one set of tyres and rims fit all my Rovers so interchange as I replace them. I was keen to get them all up to 35s. Now looks like 33s is it for this one without changing the exhast layout:mad:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10335&stc=1&d=1219541771

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=10336&stc=1&d=1219542195

[rovercare]

quick OT question Matt - do the bits of stainless tube have a bead rolled into them to help hold the hoses on? or are they just straight? if straight, any problems with hose movements?
Cheers,

Straight, those silicon hoses are great:)

[Blknight.aus]

if its an after market job I bet that you have 2 issues...

1. wrong torque plate in the pump and
2. not fueled up enough....

that bolt that houses the lift pump strainers is easy to get to, lay on your back under the vehciel and slide your arm up around the front propshaft to get the ring end on of a shaved down ring oe spanner undo it a turn or so then get out lay across the passangers side guard and the engine then reach down over the motor to get it out that last bit.... since your there you should now sit down on the passangers side guard and remove the rocker cover and adjust your valves. (having realised from the manual that if you're changing or cleaning that particular filter that your also up for a valve check and adjust you would have put the required tools on the drivers side wing and the radiator.)

[Rangier Rover]

if its an after market job I bet that you have 2 issues...

1. wrong torque plate in the pump and
2. not fueled up enough....

that bolt that houses the lift pump strainers is easy to get to, lay on your back under the vehciel and slide your arm up around the front propshaft to get the ring end on of a shaved down ring oe spanner undo it a turn or so then get out lay across the passangers side guard and the engine then reach down over the motor to get it out that last bit.... since your there you should now sit down on the passangers side guard and remove the rocker cover and adjust your valves. (having realised from the manual that if you're changing or cleaning that particular filter that your also up for a valve check and adjust you would have put the required tools on the drivers side wing and the radiator.) Thanks Dave.. . I got the banjo out ok but had no screen. I spoke to the Diesel specialist I use here and had same concerns as you do.:)
So I fit boost and phyro. Get it close and then put it on his dyno and go from there. He also mentioned the pump has very fine tolerances. They are aparently prone to the symtoms I am having. Fuel rack,Govenor.etc. I just hope it hasn't had bad fuel in it at some stage. Tony

[Blknight.aus]

depends on whose standard of "fine" you apply....

your only going to get problems with that pump if salty fuel or if its been left sitting with water in it...

keep your engine filter at 30 micron or below and your laughing.

[Rangier Rover]

I've fitted the phyro post turbo as I don't have the time to do a pre turbo set up and time has gone by:(.
All my tractors and trucks here run post turbo anyway. They say there is around 200 deg drop in temperature when on full song.

I will fit a digital phyro pre turbo later on to compare it so will be interesting as there are many variables.


Some pics....Don't be to hard on my rough work:p

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14601&stc=1&d=1238675965

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14602&stc=1&d=1238677654

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14603&stc=1&d=1238677733

I also changed the thermostat as was running around 32 deg:o

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14604&stc=1&d=1238678141

This is great for checking cooling systems etc

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14605&stc=1&d=1238678218

Tony

[Dougal]

I've fitted the phyro post turbo as I don't have the time to do a pre turbo set up and time has gone by:(.
All my tractors and trucks here run post turbo anyway. They say there is around 200 deg drop in temperature when on full song.

The difference depends on your EGT's upstream, the pressure drop across your turbine and the boost you're running.
300C shouldn't be a problem.

[Rangier Rover]

It had to happen and I have expected worse with a Santana Box and 10 spline front end.
The bolts have just sheered off on the RHS sals drive flange:mad: It's now 11pm and I need this thing tomorrow:(

Pics will tell the story as you will notice two may have sheered before tonight:(
I was on a light cruise with no load and then had no drive... I thought no worries lock the center diff.... We had drive..... I then unlocked the center diff and no drive..... I applied the hand brake and had friction to the front:eek: The sals cant fail was the first thought....


I did tow a 20 ton truck some time ago and have been dragging this 4 ton feed wagon as a grouper wile sowing our crops here :angel:

It Just amazes me how they fail under light load at times:(

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16659&stc=1&d=1246975820

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16660&stc=1&d=1246974552

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16661&stc=1&d=1246975071

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=16662&stc=1&d=1246976535



Tony

[isuzurover]

Bugger... Can you swap over the hub from another vehicle for a quick fix??? I see you have a disc conversion, does it use stock RRC hubs?

[Rangier Rover]

Bugger... Can you swap over the hub from another vehicle for a quick fix??? I see you have a disc conversion, does it use stock RRC hubs?
Not sure yet... This one is an 89 model and seems to be a bitsa when it comes to parts:mad: I have a 90 Rangie here to part out so your idea may work out. I also have a 83 Rangie rear end sitting around very handy but think it may be different:confused: I'm not sure yet. Would be quicker than drilling and easy outs fore sure.

Have you seen a sals do this before? Buggered if I have. The 40 series Toyota's have done this here often though:(

[isuzurover]

Not sure yet... This one is an 89 model and seems to be a bitsa when it comes to parts:mad: I have a 90 Rangie here to part out so your idea may work out. I also have a 83 Rangie rear end sitting around very handy but think it may be different:confused: I'm not sure yet. Would be quicker than drilling and easy outs fore sure.

Have you seen a sals do this before? Buggered if I have. The 40 series Toyota's have done this here often though:(

They retained rear drums till 1992ish, so yours must be a conversion. As long as the hub hasn't been machined then either the front or rear hubs from your RRC should fit, but you may need a thin flange b etween the drive flange and the hub.

I recall the US guys (with big wheels high HP and low gearing) having similar issues. Some modified the hubs to 10-stud. But swapping over to class 12.9 socket head cap screws and doing them up FT using loctite retaining compound should do the trick.

[Rangier Rover]

:mad::mad::mad: I've about had it with the Rovers here:mad::mad:
Why do they have to change to metric and when the :censored:and what drive menber become metric 10mm X1.5 . All my Rangie ones are imperial up to 90 model in this part.
I have tried to extract the bolts but was unsuccessful with one:( now has a broken drill bit in it.

I don't have time for this quirky crap any more:mad:
If a few more things startle me this week you will see a heap of rovers flood the market and I may go back to Jap crap;)

Tony:(:(

[87County]

:mad::mad::mad: I've about had it with the Rovers here:mad::mad:
Why do they have to change to metric and when the :censored:and what drive menber become metric 10mm X1.5 . All my Rangie ones are imperial up to 90 model in this part.
I have tried to extract the bolts but was unsuccessful with one:( now has a broken drill bit in it.

I don't have time for this quirky crap any more:mad:
If a few more things startle me this week you will see a heap of rovers flood the market and I may go back to Jap crap;)

Tony:(:(

just give us the word - I'd like a 120 4BD1:)

[Rangier Rover]

Looks like the drive member is from a post 92 Defender so have got onto a second hand one in Newcastle... Have to wail till next week to get it:(
I'm going to try re taping a Rangie one to get it going.

[Rangier Rover]

just give us the word - I'd like a 120 4BD1:)
Think I need to get some fresh air and calm down I little before I do something that I would regret latter:D

If you want to experience 4BD1 just get a large rattle gun and try to hold it:D This is what they do do the running gear after a wile;):wasntme:

[87County]

Think I need to get some fresh air and calm down I little before I do something that I would regret latter:D

If you want to experience 4BD1 just get a large rattle gun and try to hold it:D This is what they do do the running gear after a wile;):wasntme:

you could say that I'm fully experienced with them ;) - I just want a 120 to complete the set ....:angel:

[Rangier Rover]

Well... It appears some of the flange bolts went metric in the update Disco and late RRC. I assume when they went 24 spline.

I now have an update Disco front hub. Had some drama getting new bolts for it as were 45mm long, Off the shelf bolts are 40 then 50:( Amazingly super chump auto in Mudgee had the right ones:) So the 120 goes back together tomorrow with new bearings and seal. I'm going to run the grease again. Less chance of a leak.

[Dougal]

Well... It appears some of the flange bolts went metric in the update Disco and late RRC. I assume when they went 24 spline.

I now have an update Disco front hub. Had some drama getting new bolts for it as were 45mm long, Off the shelf bolts are 40 then 50:( Amazingly super chump auto in Mudgee had the right ones:) So the 120 goes back together tomorrow with new bearings and seal. I'm going to run the grease again. Less chance of a leak.

Mostly when they went 24 spline. I've seen photos of later style flanges with 10 spline axles attached.:eek:

Go for oil, really. My current axles were from a 97 disco, despite onl doing 80,000km the fronts already showed evidence of someone being in and tampering with the bearings. With oil it's 200,000km before the bearings need touched.

[Rangier Rover]

Went to open the drivers door this morning and guess what:mad::mad: The meco has just buggered up and now can only open it from the inside:(
Not sure why yet. Its a pain as I cant have a window down due to the rats and mice here. I'll finish with the hub before I attack the door or it will end up like the 45 series that's behind it now:( Never had the door apart in this one yet. I hope its not like a rangie or disco in there is it:eek:

I have some 285/75 tyres for it that will be a lot easier on the drive line than the 35s are