Isuzu Flywheel housing three bolt 12V STARTER

[130 ambulance]

G,day everyone, I was hoping to find out If the 4BD1T Isuzu NPR trucks in Oz used a 3 bolt 12V starter or are they all 24v two bolt starters. Over here In Canada they are three bolt 12v starters. I am just in the beginning stages of starting a 4bd1t swap into my 1991 defender army ambulance / camper Photos of the truck are in the introductions and general chat section. Any way I've been tring to sort the flywheel housing and mate it up to my gearbox. Does anyone want to part with the Isuzu / Rover Flywheel housing am willing to make a trade or buy it. I have two flywheel housings one from a 1990 automatic gearbox 4bd1t with flywheel and one from a 1988 4bd1t with a 5 speed gear box also with the flywheel.

Here's a photo of the flywheelhousing from the 1988 4bd1t with a standard 5 speed isuzu box You can see it is almost like the landrover / isuzu housing with three bolts for the starter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/687.jpg

the one from the engine with the automatic box is the same just doesn't have the drain plug under the starter fitting. I also have the 12v starter for it if anyone is interested. I found the photo below on rijidij post about his 4bd1t swap into his county. He did an amazing job with his swap. It was his post that showed me what parts I need to find. Or does anyone know if there is an adapter plate I can use. At least the housing I have can take a 12V starter.

Here's the photo of the landy flywheel housing he used it also shows the one he took off the engine I noticed it only has two bolts for the starter.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/688.jpg

I hope someone can offer some advice. Or some solid info on where to buy the correct parts to swap a 4bd1t into a 1991 Defender 130 V8

Cheers
Justin

[Bush65]

AFAIK all of the trucks here had 24V, 2 bolt starter motors and the flywheel housing as shown in the last pic.

I doubt there are any of the Land Rover version flywheel housings available anywhere except for used ones from/in Land Rovers (and they are not easy to come by).

[130 ambulance]

AFAIK all of the trucks here had 24V, 2 bolt starter motors and the flywheel housing as shown in the last pic.

I doubt there are any of the Land Rover version flywheel housings available anywhere except for used ones from/in Land Rovers (and they are not easy to come by).

Thanks Bush, not what I wanted to hear!!!!! I didn't think it was going to be this hard to find a 4bd1t Isuzu / Landy engine flywheel housing. But surely someone must have found a way around this with an adapter plate of some kind. I STILL THINK
THERE MUST BE A HOUSING SITTING AT A WRECKER OR IN A WORKSHOP SOMEWHERE.:wallbash: I THINK... IF ANY OF YOU HAD ONE IT WOULD BE A WELL GUARDED SECRET:whistling::rocket:

I'm still hoping someone will spill the beans and tell me they have one for sale:MileStone:

Cheers, Justin

[isuzurover]

Thanks Bush, not what I wanted to hear!!!!! But surely someone must have found a way around this with an adapter plate of some kind. THERE MUST BE ONE SITTING AT A WRECKER OR IN A WORKSHOP SOMEWHERE.:wallbash: I THINK... IF ANY OF YOU HAD ONE IT WOULD BE A WELL GUARDED SECRET:whistling::rocket:

I'm still hoping someone will spill the beans and tell me they have one for sale:MileStone:

Cheers, Justin

I have never seen an adaptor. 2-bolt (24V) starters are cheap over here, and 3-bolt (12V) are $$$$$$$. I know a couple of people who installed truck 4BD1s, and didn't want to stump up the $$$ for the starter, so they just use a switch/solenoid to connect their dual batteries in series for starting.

[isuzu110]

My 24V one had been rewound to 12V

[130 ambulance]

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't very clear in my reply to Bush65 I was trying to reply about the flywheel housing. Is there a flywheel housing adapter plate to mate the isuzu 4bd1t to an lt85 or lt95 box with V8 bellhousings as it is so hard to find the Isuzu / Rover flywheel housing I have two choices right now. I already have an LT85 in my V8 powered 130 ambulance and an lt95 out of an old V8 101 Vampire that I could use behind the 4bd1t with an adapter plate. If their is such a thing or I could keep looking for the genuine Isuzu / Landy flywheelhousing and gear box bellhousing. I just thought an adapter plate would be the easy thing to do. Has anyone done this? Can you get a kit in Oz? If anyone has these parts PM me I'll send a big bag of cash express post!!!! AKA pay pal

Sorry about the mix up I'll edit my post an see if I can make sense :wasntme:

Cheers, Justin

[isuzurover]

Sorry guys, I guess I wasn't very clear in my reply to Bush65 I was trying to reply about the flywheel housing. Is there a flywheel housing adapter plate to mate the isuzu 4bd1t to an lt85 or lt95 box with V8 bellhousings as it is so hard to find the Isuzu / Rover flywheel housing

Zenith Engineering in Brisbane used to make such a beast, but don't anymore, and AFAIK they have no stock left.

Plenty of people have made their own 4BD1-R380 adaptors.

Isuzudieselswappers has adaptors to a few common (non rover) transmissions. That might be an option for you.

[Dinty]

G'day All, I wrote a post about this topic 2 weeks ago here it is in case you missed it,, "G'day All, Nice unit Justin, it looks to be ex british army by the registartion number.
The Isuzu adaptor parts you are looking for are as scarce as rocking horse dung:o, short of buying a Series 3 Stage 1 with a Isuzu eng/4 speed G/box or a dead 110 fitted with the same, I doubt whether you would be able to buy the parts, maybe a as a long shot someone here might know if the parts are still available from a Rover outlet/dealer, although we get asked a few times where can I get such an item, no-one has come back and said from your local friendly L/Rover specialist, anyway mate good luck and cheers Dennis:wasntme:"
looks like it's proving to be a challenge, I know of a 110 Isuzu unregistered here in Cessnock but the owner will want mega bucks for his P.O.S as he calls it now, anyway good luck cheers Dennis:angel:

[130 ambulance]

G'day All, I wrote a post about this topic 2 weeks ago here it is in case you missed it,, "G'day All, Nice unit Justin, it looks to be ex british army by the registartion number.
The Isuzu adaptor parts you are looking for are as scarce as rocking horse dung:o, short of buying a Series 3 Stage 1 with a Isuzu eng/4 speed G/box or a dead 110 fitted with the same, I doubt whether you would be able to buy the parts, maybe a as a long shot someone here might know if the parts are still available from a Rover outlet/dealer, although we get asked a few times where can I get such an item, no-one has come back and said from your local friendly L/Rover specialist, anyway mate good luck and cheers Dennis:wasntme:"
looks like it's proving to be a challenge, I know of a 110 Isuzu unregistered here in Cessnock but the owner will want mega bucks for his P.O.S as he calls it now, anyway good luck cheers Dennis:angel:

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your post! PM has been sent. Yes, sorry I did miss that, and you are quite right. It is an Ex British Army Ambulance from a training Base close to me here in Alberta, Canada. A bit of good news though, It looks like I have found the Proper flywheel Housing, flywheel and pressure plate, I will know for sure in the next couple days. All Brand new original parts :banana: Just need to sort the Clutch plate and gear box bellhousing now. Not sure if I will go with the LT85 5 speed or the Lt95 :confused: If anyone wants to jump in with some advise on what path to take and why please do. Also if anyone has either setup for sale PM me with details.

Cheers, Justin

[rijidij]

G'day Justin,
I got your email etc but I've been in Outback Australia for 4 weeks, so haven't been able to reply untill now.
A mate of mine who works on Land Rovers for a living was easily able to source a brand new flywheel housing for me last year, as well as a flywheel. The housing part number is 8944419332. I think it is a genuine Isuzu part number by the look of the label that came with it.

Not sure if I will go with the LT85 5 speed or the Lt95
As to which gearbox to go with, I think you will find 'most' 4BD1t owners will say the Lt95 is the best option to be able to handle the touque of the turbo engine. That's if you're just talking about Rover boxes, especially if you have the split casing Lt85 which is the weaker version.
The 5 speed is good as far as having an overdrive gear to keep the revs down at high speed, but the high ratio transfer gears in the Lt95 are fairly easy to change also, it depends just what you want from your engine. I chose to go with 1.113 gears in my Lt95. These are standard gears from early Rangies and the next closest to the standard Landy Isuzu gears at 0.999 which I thought would be a bit 'tall' for what I wanted. I've been more than happy with the performance from the turbo engine so far running a maximum boost of just under 10psi.
Also, if you go for the Lt95, make sure you get the turbo pressure plate for the clutch. I made the mistake of using a non-turbo one thinking it would be ok as it was brand new, but it just couldn't handle the touque.

Cheers, Murray

[Bush65]

Reading the post from rijidij, just now caused me to recall a post I read somewhere on clutch plates for the 4BD1.

As many know, the torsional vibrations from a 4BD1 at low speed cause havoc with the gearbox. Someone posted about having good success with a "soft centre" clutch plate that they had made. It probably wasn't described as a soft centre, but that is just the way I remember it, because the dampening springs were changed to absorb more of the torsional vibration.

I have mine out at the moment and it is something that I wanted to investigate. BTW, I'm using the Isuzu clutch, which I think is larger than that fitted to Land Rovers.

If that person who posted about the clutch plate all that time ago, is here, I would be interested in knowing how it has held up.

[130 ambulance]

G'day Justin,
I got your email etc but I've been in Outback Australia for 4 weeks, so haven't been able to reply untill now.
A mate of mine who works on Land Rovers for a living was easily able to source a brand new flywheel housing for me last year, as well as a flywheel. The housing part number is 8944419332. I think it is a genuine Isuzu part number by the look of the label that came with it.

As to which gearbox to go with, I think you will find 'most' 4BD1t owners will say the Lt95 is the best option to be able to handle the touque of the turbo engine. That's if you're just talking about Rover boxes, especially if you have the split casing Lt85 which is the weaker version.
The 5 speed is good as far as having an overdrive gear to keep the revs down at high speed, but the high ratio transfer gears in the Lt95 are fairly easy to change also, it depends just what you want from your engine. I chose to go with 1.113 gears in my Lt95. These are standard gears from early Rangies and the next closest to the standard Landy Isuzu gears at 0.999 which I thought would be a bit 'tall' for what I wanted. I've been more than happy with the performance from the turbo engine so far running a maximum boost of just under 10psi.
Also, if you go for the Lt95, make sure you get the turbo pressure plate for the clutch. I made the mistake of using a non-turbo one thinking it would be ok as it was brand new, but it just couldn't handle the touque.

Cheers, Murray

Murray... Thanks for the info. As I'm new to the challenges of engine swaps. I'm not clear on the whole gear ratio thing. I've tried to read as much info on here regarding what the correct gear ratios are to use behind the 4bd1t Isuzu and why, but it might as well all be written in Chinese. Can anyone jump in here and explain how the gear ratio works and how the different ratios affect how your truck drives. I have been told to use a ratio of 0.996 by a few guys if I use the LT 95 box. My santana LT 85 BOX / LT230 TC has a low ratio of 3.321 and a high ratio of 1.410 as fitted to my 3.5 V8. A Mate of mine here in Canada just bought a isuzu powered 130 from The U.K also with an LTt85 / LT230 TC his low ratio is the same as mine 3.321 but his High ratio is 1.222 Not sure what the numbers mean. I hope some one will be up to explaining this. Maybe a dumb question but I'll never know unless I ask.

Cheers...Justin

[isuzurover]

Murray... Thanks for the info. As I'm new to the challenges of engine swaps. I'm not clear on the whole gear ratio thing. I've tried to read as much info on here regarding what the correct gear ratios are to use behind the 4bd1t Isuzu and why, but it might as well all be written in Chinese. Can anyone jump in here and explain how the gear ratio works and how the different ratios affect how your truck drives. I have been told to use a ratio of 0.996 by a few guys if I use the LT 95 box. My santana LT 85 BOX / LT230 TC has a low ratio of 3.321 and a high ratio of 1.410 as fitted to my 3.5 V8. A Mate of mine here in Canada just bought a isuzu powered 130 from The U.K also with an LTt85 / LT230 TC his low ratio is the same as mine 3.321 but his High ratio is 1.222 Not sure what the numbers mean. I hope some one will be up to explaining this. Maybe a dumb question but I'll never know unless I ask.

Cheers...Justin

The ISUZU is a low-revving engine with lots of torque. That is why you need to use high (numerically low) high range ratios in the transfer.

Assuming you have a 4 spd (LT95) in 4th:
with 1.4:1 high range gears, if the engine is doing 1400rpm, the propshaft(s) will be doing 1000rpm.

With 0.996:1 high wange gears in the same situation, the propshafts would be doing about 1400rpm as well.

With 1.2:1 you would be somewhere in between.

The 4BD1(T) only revs to about 3400 rpm in most specs. Depending on tyre size, that gives a top speed of about 140km/h in an LT95 with 0.996:1 gears. If you fit lower (numerically higher) ratios, you will have a lower top speed.

[130 ambulance]

The ISUZU is a low-revving engine with lots of torque. That is why you need to use high (numerically low) high range ratios in the transfer.

Assuming you have a 4 spd (LT95) in 4th:
with 1.4:1 high range gears, if the engine is doing 1400rpm, the propshaft(s) will be doing 1000rpm.

With 0.996:1 high wange gears in the same situation, the propshafts would be doing about 1400rpm as well.

With 1.2:1 you would be somewhere in between.

The 4BD1(T) only revs to about 3400 rpm in most specs. Depending on tyre size, that gives a top speed of about 140km/h in an LT95 with 0.996:1 gears. If you fit lower (numerically higher) ratios, you will have a lower top speed.


Thanks isuzu rover... It's all starting to make sense :p

Now I think I'm starting to get it :eek: So if I go with the LT95A box with a 0.996 ratio It will actually be higher in 4th than the 5th in my current set up of 5 speed LT85/230TC 1.4:1 Meaning i'm going to move just as quick with out over revving the engine and I really wont miss the fifth gear at all. Next question i have is.... Will having a military salisbury rear diff cause any problems with gearing that I should be aware of.

Am I ever glad I met you guys I've learned so much in such a short time It's a shame your all in Aus..... Canada could use a few of you. I think it's time to put the truck on a RORO Ferry not sure if they will let me push it on though.
Maybe when the swap is finnished!

Regards, Justin

[balki]

hi ive got several adaptor plates to fit isuzu truck engines to land rover v bell housings they work very well can send photos if required

[130 ambulance]

hi ive got several adaptor plates to fit isuzu truck engines to land rover v bell housings they work very well can send photos if required

I'm up for that, can't wait to see the pictures...

PM ON THE WAY!

Regards
Justin

[Dougal]

Can anyone give me the bolt pattern on the LT95 bellhousing?

[rijidij]

I have a new bellhousing sitting in the shed. How accurate do you need the measurements. All I have to measure with is a 600mm metal ruler



Can anyone give me the bolt pattern on the LT95 bellhousing?

[isuzurover]

Thanks isuzu rover... It's all starting to make sense :p

Now I think I'm starting to get it :eek: So if I go with the LT95A box with a 0.996 ratio It will actually be higher in 4th than the 5th in my current set up of 5 speed LT85/230TC 1.4:1 Meaning i'm going to move just as quick with out over revving the engine and I really wont miss the fifth gear at all. Next question i have is.... Will having a military salisbury rear diff cause any problems with gearing that I should be aware of.



It is easy to work out overall ratios.

Just gear ratio x tcase ratio x diff ratio.

So your current setup in 5th would be 0.77(?) x 1.4 x 3.54 = 3.81
Doing the same for the LT95 in 4th = 3.53 - so slightly taller.

Not sure what you mean by a "Military" salisbury. OZ or Canadian? Series or coiller? 4x4 or 6x6?

All series salisburies were 4.7:1 - with the exception of Stage 1 V8s (3.54:1)
All coillers were 3.54:1 - except 6x6s (4.7:1)
FC101s are 5.57:1

Dana 60 ratios can be fitted. Gives you the option of anything from 3.54:1 to 7.17:1

[Dougal]

I have a new bellhousing sitting in the shed. How accurate do you need the measurements. All I have to measure with is a 600mm metal ruler

Within a millimetre or so would be excellent. Steel rule would be fine for that.
Just trying to get a handle on the internal diameter, bolt size, pattern and PCD.:)

[map1275]

Got a little lost with some of the replies but there seems to be a couple of issues:

A. What Jaguar Rover Australia did from new.

B. What everyone else does for home made conversions.



A. Is easy, its all Isuzu up to the pressure plate. From the release bearing on its Land-Rover. In between is the custom made JRA bell housing to adapt the Isuzu back housing to an LT95. This is the only rare part.


B. Make it up as you go along. Though some UK firms offer a conversion kit.


Back to the original question, it should be the three bolt starter. It is on the 6X6 anyway and I've pulled enough of these out. 4X4 should be the same and I do have the parts lists here somewhere if you want a copy.

[rijidij]

Can anyone give me the bolt pattern on the LT95 bellhousing?

Dougal,
I hope this is what you're after.
I 'Helicoiled' my other bellhousing for M10-1.25 bolts as most of them were stripped and that's what seemed to fit the good thread that was left, but the bolts that fit this new bellhousing measure up as M10-1.5 as far as I can see (20 threads in 30mm) Also, there are only 2 bolts directly opposite eachother on the housing, so I could only measure the PCD in one place.
All measurements are to centres.

Cheers, Murray

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/05/1316.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/424.jpg

[rijidij]

Is easy, its all Isuzu up to the pressure plate. From the release bearing on its Land-Rover. In between is the custom made JRA bell housing to adapt the Isuzu back housing to an LT95. This is the only rare part

I'm not sure if the Landy flywheel is an Isuzu part or a Land Rover part, but it is deffinately different to the truck flywheel. Also, something you need that is pre-flywheel as a Land Rover part is the spiggot bush. More info here........http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/55113-county-v8-4bd1turbo-conversion.html

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/674.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/29.jpg

[isuzubob]

The housing part number is 8944419332. I think it is a genuine Isuzu part number by the look of the label that came with it.



The part number I have from back in Sept 1983 was 5113401270, so was there some slightly different versions? And while these unique parts have Isuzu numbers and were made/supplied by Isuzu don't bother going to your local Isuzu dealer as the numbers won't come up as they are to suit LR only. The flywheel is 5123301480 and the ring gear is 5123330020 (Isuzu #) while the crankshaft bearing (spigot bush) is AYG320 (LR #)

[Dougal]

I'm not sure if the Landy flywheel is an Isuzu part or a Land Rover part, but it is deffinately different to the truck flywheel. Also, something you need that is pre-flywheel as a Land Rover part is the spiggot bush. More info here........http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/55113-county-v8-4bd1turbo-conversion.html

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/674.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/29.jpg

Thanks Murray, those measurements where exactly what I wanted. I'll overlay it with the Isuzu pattern in solidworks later on to see what it'll tell me.

The picture in the post above showing the clutch and flywheel I believe is labelled wrongly. I have all Isuzu truck parts in mine (including gearbox) and my flywheel, clutch and pressure plate match the ones shown across the bottom.

[Bush65]

...

The picture in the post above showing the clutch and flywheel I believe is labelled wrongly. I have all Isuzu truck parts in mine (including gearbox) and my flywheel, clutch and pressure plate match the ones shown across the bottom.
Strange, mine (truck 4BD1-T) are like those shown on the top row.

[rovercare]

The picture in the post above showing the clutch and flywheel I believe is labelled wrongly. I have all Isuzu truck parts in mine (including gearbox) and my flywheel, clutch and pressure plate match the ones shown across the bottom.

Did you read his thread?, pretty sure he got it right:D

Actually he did as they're the same as mine on the bottom;)

[rijidij]

The picture in the post above showing the clutch and flywheel I believe is labelled wrongly. I have all Isuzu truck parts in mine (including gearbox) and my flywheel, clutch and pressure plate match the ones shown across the bottom.

The dirty ones at the top are the ones I pulled out of the truck, and the bottom ones are the shiny new Landy parts I bought from Fred Smith in Melb when I fitted the Isuzu to the County.

Cheers, Murray

[Dougal]

The dirty ones at the top are the ones I pulled out of the truck, and the bottom ones are the shiny new Landy parts I bought from Fred Smith in Melb when I fitted the Isuzu to the County.

Cheers, Murray

Interesting.
The flywheels could be wrong on, but my Isuzu pressure plate is definitely the lower one and it's got the Isuzu logo stamped into it. My clutch plate is 274mm OD.

My engine is originally JDM, approx 86 vintage with the two bolt starter.

[Bearman]

Hey Dougal, funny you should say that as my original motor was a 88 model truck motor with 2bolt starter and it had the correct flywheel and pressure plate - same as the Landy one. All I had to change was the cluth plate and spigot bearing plus flywheel housing of course. I couldnt find out what model truck it came from (the wreckers wouldnt tell me) but evidently there is a model Isuzu truck around that 86-88 vintage that uses the same flywheel/pressure plate as the Landrover. Anyone know what model it is??????

[Dougal]

Hey Dougal, funny you should say that as my original motor was a 88 model truck motor with 2bolt starter and it had the correct flywheel and pressure plate - same as the Landy one. All I had to change was the cluth plate and spigot bearing plus flywheel housing of course. I couldnt find out what model truck it came from (the wreckers wouldnt tell me) but evidently there is a model Isuzu truck around that 86-88 vintage that uses the same flywheel/pressure plate as the Landrover. Anyone know what model it is??????

The NPR59 was the original truck the 4BD1T's were fitted to, I don't know where the model codes went from there.