now I'm having second thoughts about what to get.

[stumo]

As some of you are aware, I am in the market for a new wagon. I have been looking at D2 ES's (or non ES but with ACE and 7 seats) around the 15k mark. The V8 is too expensive for me to run (and expensive/inconvienient to convert to gas), so it needs to be a TD5.

The idea is that we keep the car forever. We only need one car at the moment, so it will be used initially by swimbo for running our young and growing family around. Then when the kids are a bit older I would like to do a bit of offroad adventuring/camping etc. Say in about 5 years time.

By then I hope to be able to afford something for the family with aribags all round etc. and keep the 4WD as a second car and for camping etc. At the moment, I'm pretty much priced out of "luxuries" such as all round airbags, so a big arsed 4WD will have to be our supplementry restraint system until then.

So I got to thinking that a Toymota Prado Grande V6 is in that price range these days. it has dual airbags (and leather seats etc), but more importantly it returns about 15l/100 on petrol round town (it is a good 400kgs lighter than a D2). It also has two big fuel tanks, so when converting to gas (doesn't need vapour injection etiher) you don't loose your range as you still keep a 65l petrol tank.

I know the TD5 wins hands down in offroad ability, but I'm thinking I should get a Prado, then in 5 years time look again at the TD5. They shold be much cheaper by then.

So in summary, do you think for the next 5 years (of general round town use) a Prado or TD5 would be the better option for me? (my head is saying Prado but my heart is saying TD5)

[Xavie]

I'm not going to get in to the debate of which one because other people here will sort that out but if it were just for around town and very little off road I think you should consider the 4cyl petrol prado. My neighbour has one with 225 on the clock and it does 8-10 litres to the 100 km. However not sure if they come with only 5 seats or if you can get 7. But for economy and city use they have done really well and they still take it bush but not all that often.

Xav

[Sleepy]

Oh no not a head vs. heart thread again - Last time I did that for a Wrangler vs Defender argument I got hammered!!:D Given that this is a Land Rover forum, I think you really want us to talk you into a Td5???

I like the Td5 Disco. They are a nice package and whilst not as full-on as Dirty-Dawgs Defender they do hold themselves well in the rough stuff. (although I would add a Centre Diff Lock if not fitted!)
Mind you I have been off roading with Prados and they are a capable vehicle too.

The Td5 is probably a little more economical.

I would think they would both have potential to be expensive to repair.

They both have electrickery ECU's to make you nervous - although (as seen on other threads) I don't reckon that's a reason not to buy either.

I think it will boil down to which one you like best based on what you are gonna use it for.

(I would have thought you could get yourself a TD5 disco for the $15K mark if you hunt around!)

[ozscott]

I stand to be corrected but I highly doubt that there is a 400kg difference between a new shape prado and a D2....have you checked that?

My D2 gets 15l/100k in and out from the suburbs to Brisbane - combination of peak hour and out of it. I run mine on LPG, but when I ran petrol thats what I got, week in week out. If I hammered it it didnt seem to do much worse either. Thats a 5 speed manual though.

I reckon despite its independent front end the Pretendo might well out handled by the Disco, even without ACE.

Cheers

[Narangga]

What is your preference in the Disco - manual or auto?

[ozscott]

Mate - I have a D1 auto and a D2 manual. I have driven a D2 auto...I love the manual. Its fast, efficient - lets face it it has an extra ratio:) I tow a 2 ton boat and I like the manual better for that; and i like the shifting on the fly from low to high range.

Cheers

[ozscott]

although 90% + are probably auto, mainly because you couldnt get a manual in anything other than the poverty pack from memory when I got mine...so most people will probably like autos.

[Narangga]

Mate - I have a D1 auto and a D2 manual. I have driven a D2 auto...I love the manual. Its fast, efficient - lets face it it has an extra ratio:) I tow a 2 ton boat and I like the manual better for that; and i like the shifting on the fly from low to high range.

Cheers


although 90% + are probably auto, mainly because you couldnt get a manual in anything other than the poverty pack from memory when I got mine...so most people will probably like autos.

DOH! :o Just realised you were talking to me!

My question re manual or auto was to stumo but like you I wanted the manual for towing. I guesstimated the manuals were 3-5K more than autos when I was looking 6 months ago.

[ozscott]

No worries matey. Thats interesting because when new they were cheaper by a couple of grand.

Cheers

[Narangga]

No worries matey. Thats interesting because when new they were cheaper by a couple of grand.

Cheers

D2 Autos outnumber Manuals by 8:1 so I assume that is the price difference.

[stumo]

I must have an auto (wife can't drive... a manual)

I'm comparing with the slightly older 100 series prado, the newer prado is about 400kg heavier than the old one, so yeah, the new shape prado is same weight as D2 (but prices for that new 120 series prado start at 20k+).

15km/l from a 100 series prado is at the high end of what I've read, kind of like the 20l+/100 I've seen bandied about from V8 D2 owners.

If it was purely for me there would be no question, it would be a TD5. But the wife is going to be using it most of the time for the forseeable future, so the prado is weighing heavily on my mind.

[Narangga]

You know your own situation and what you have to weigh up - including $ etc.

However why not get her to have a drive in both and see what she says?

[simonl8353]

Hey,
Were not biased on this forum atall, :p But really insist you buy the Disco not the Prado. (I wont stoop to the rediculus name calling of other species, as they each serve a pupose and all credible vehicles).

I seriously love my V8, but my passion is really helped by not using it as a daily runner due to the cost of fuel. The Diesel would be your choice (unless you have a weakness for hearing whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump) :BigThumb: OMG! thinking 'bout it, gotta go and start her up again...!

I agree with Sleepy, a head v heart thing. Make sure its sound,:spudnikguitar: but go with the Discovery.

[29dinosaur]

Hey,
Were not biased on this forum atall, :p But really insist you buy the Disco not the Prado. (I wont stoop to the rediculus name calling of other species, as they each serve a pupose and all credible vehicles).

I seriously love my V8, but my passion is really helped by not using it as a daily runner due to the cost of fuel. The Diesel would be your choice (unless you have a weakness for hearing whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump, whump) :BigThumb: OMG! thinking 'bout it, gotta go and start her up again...!

I agree with Sleepy, a head v heart thing. Make sure its sound,:spudnikguitar: but go with the Discovery.

Ditto

Drive a prado (ie the older ones) then a disco - there's no comparison.

[harlie]

... the 4cyl petrol prado. My neighbour has one with 225 on the clock and it does 8-10 litres to the 100 km. However not sure if they come with only 5 seats or if you can get 7. But for economy and city use they have done really well and they still take it bush but not all that often.

Xav

Find that a little hard to believe – we had an auto Corrola that drank 9-9.5 in city, Same as the Manual 300TDi disco 1 we owned at the time.

[harlie]

Mate - I have a D1 auto and a D2 manual. I have driven a D2 auto...I love the manual. Its fast, efficient - lets face it it has an extra ratio:) I tow a 2 ton boat and I like the manual better for that; and i like the shifting on the fly from low to high range.

Cheers


I had a 2.7 ton boat. Started towing it with a manual TDi D1 and hated every minute of it. Low to high range shifts were needed on every hill start and the clutch didn’t last long. Changed to the Auto D2 TD5 we have now about 4 years ago and it just goes. Drag it along the same roads, same hill starts, no low range NEEDED, accelerates much better - heaps more drivable (and lazy). However two down sides the auto showed with the this load – no engine braking, and relatively poor performance around 60-70km just below the lock-up point (in 3rd).


That boat is now gone – replaced with one that didn’t come with a trailer, Anyway - ozscott it’s interesting to see another point of view

[DiscoDan]

If it was purely for me there would be no question, it would be a TD5. But the wife is going to be using it most of the time for the forseeable future, so the prado is weighing heavily on my mind.


Stumo, Hang in there, I just picked up a D2 7 seat, ace, Leather, etc, Not an ES but close enough for 10k. Has been maintained but not loved. Now it will be loved but not maintained:D.

They are out there be patient, I had a broker look but in the end it was his brother that found it and it was a failed trade-in.

In the markets there is a 2002 that has dropped in price

AULRO Classifieds - Message - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds (http://www.aulro.com/apc/showproduct.php/product/1745/cat/9)

Check this out, seems like a good deal, it has most of the ES items

Danny

[dobbo]

My guess is the 7 seater is essential, the D2 fold away nicely, the prado's just fold up, limiting your rear cargo space considerably.

Neither of these vehicles have airbags to protect the rear seats

Airbags and kids are dangerous, hence why kids should not ride in the front of cars, why is this different for side facing bags? There is still an explosive device and could potentially break necks if the kids head is resting on the C pillar of the vehicle in an accident.

If you want a good all round car, capable of towing, carting kids, enough room in the back to fit a "monthly" trip to Woolworths and still fit all the family comfortably, large enough to be safe (all other cars on the road to stay away from your precious cargo) have off road ability for future camping trip, offroad days and the such.

I own a D2 TD5, and have driven and riden as a passenger in an up to date Prado many of times. IMHO If I was in your boat at this point in time I would consider teaching your wife to drive a manual getting a County or Defender.

If all three vehicles are lined up together and my kids have the option of jumping in any they pick the County. If we are going on a long drive and want comfort, we take the County.

It's slower than both others, therefore safer. It can fit 9 adults comfortably and still have room for the shopping ( not much shopping with 9 adults, but more than the D2 or Prado will fit) easier to park due to the excellent rear vision therefore more situational awareness (compared to the D2 and Prado) easier to clean puke, chocolate and all the other goodies kids do to cars (you cannot literally hose out the interior on a D2 or Prado) and if looked after it will outlive a D2 or Prado in both looks, and reliability, therefore it could potentially be the last car you will ever buy thus saving you the $$$$$. When all the kids are grown and left home you can go touring in the 110. Last of all If you decide to sell it you could probably break even if not make money.

[stumo]

Thanks everyone for the advice, even though I'm obviously going to get a biased view, there has been some useful info.

I totally agree about the handling and ride of the ACE equipped D2. It handles better than our current VT Commode, which for a big 4wd is impressive. The Prado handles/rides just like any other seperate chassis 4wd, ie the term "agricultural" springs to mind.

A manual is totally out of the question, and I agree it has limited our choices quite a bit. But I have been there and tried that with a manual (even a smallish diesel manual car - which is probably the easiest thing in the world to drive), and it just isn't worth the hassle/safety risk - whoever said women can multitask better than men is dreaming.

Dual airbags are also a "must have". I know about how they only work in certain types of crashes etc. etc. but I know that in that split second before impact, I would rather have them than not. I'm just talking about front airbags for us, I know the kids in their carseats are better off without them - that will change in 5 years or so time when they outgrow them.

Electronics don't scare me. I've been writing software for ECUs for the past 8 years, so I know a fair bit about it.

The trouble with the Prado (and toyotas in general) is that they are boring. It is like buying a fridge with wheels - it does the job it was designed for and thats it. I'm always reminded of that BBC top gear episode where Clarkson is talking about the new corolla, and they have a load of fridges/whiteware parked out there, and one corolla, and you get the picture.

It is also great having an online community for a car, I note that the Prado groups have nothing on aulro! (which highlights my previous point about whiteware)

But all said and done, either a TD5 D2 or a 90 series Prado grande would suit our needs well. I've got the cash, and I'm not in any real rush to get one, so whichever one comes along first (that is a good deal (and doesn't blow coolant on the test drive:eek:)) I will get it.

Thanks again everyone for helping me reach this decision.

[dobbo]

Electronics don't scare me. I've been writing software for ECUs for the past 8 years, so I know a fair bit about it.

D2 TD5 auto is a lot of fun



The trouble with the Prado (and toyotas in general) is that they are boring. It is like buying a fridge with wheels - it does the job it was designed for and thats it.

I wouldn't say a fridge as such, based on the fact that you can stand next to the open door of a fridge in summer heat and look cool, I'd like to see someone do that in a Prado;)

Perhaps a microwave, it has all these wiz bang features and buttons to press but in reality all it needs and 95% of the time all that is used is 3 stop, go and open door.

[Sleepy]

The trouble with the Prado (and toyotas in general) is that they are boring.

Ahhh. I think you really do know what you want ;)
Land Rovers are like women - they make you smile and they make you cry, but they never bore you!
Buy the disco!

[stumo]

Well it has been a while but I finally bought a wagon.

I actually ended up with a 2002 ML270 CDI. It was so cheap that I just couldn't say no. And one drive in it with that 400nm of torque brings a big smile to the face. And it is very luxurious inside as you would expect.

So allthough the TD5 will own it off road, the ML is great on road and with 8 airbags and ESP and evrything, it is probably one of the safest cars on the road for the bigger family.

With TD5 prices going the way they are, I could still maybe get one as a second car one day soon.

So thanks to everyone on here for the great advice etc, and I will maybe see you later.

[DirtyDawg]

:confused:

[ozscott]

Well done on the Chrysler matey:)

[spudboy]

Stumo - there is a reason they are so cheap ........

Hope your got some warranty thrown in with the deal :angel: