CDL in D2

[green man]

I have just fitted the linkage from an '03/'04 model to my 2000. I have been advised NOT to use the diff lock without first disabling TC as there will been opposing forces (braking v driving) if TC is working. Two mechanics have told me this but I am getting different opinions from users in the field. I'd be interested in opinions here.

Begs the question....what happens in the '03/'04 models when CDL is engaged? I imagine there are differences in the computer settings from '00 to '03


many thanks

[Urban Panzer]

The 03 04's use Both....

It does not matter if the TC brakes 1 wheel as the other can still turn through the Diff even if the diff lock is engaged.

Disabling the TC once you have fitted the CDL is a backwards step tbh. dont know why they told you this info.

I have used both the TC and CDL in mine (2001) and as yet no problems at all, infact now I have the CDL, the TC hardly ever comes on anyway.

[green man]

I always thought it would be an advantage to have both. But their rationale seemed to gel. Then I started thinking about the '03/'04 models. I guess that it would be an advantage not to have TC when driving in sand/snow though.

many thanks

[WildOne]

Don't worry about the TC, with your CDL engaged the TC will aid you even more when and if it actually activates, there is a big differance in traction with the CDL engaged. It will reduce the amount of work your brakes will be doing too which is a good thing. If you dont disable your CDL before turning your disco off though when you restart you will have the "three amigo's " lit up on your dash (hill decent, ABS and TC). To clear this just disable your CDL with the engine running, then switch off and then restart, this wont clear the tree amigo's if you have a abs problem though:(

[Urban Panzer]

You can eliminate this problem totally by cutting the wire from the diff lock switch that goes to the SLABS ecu, that way it does not matter when you engage the CDL. This is how the 03 / 04 's are, I can start / stop, disengage / engage etc any time, and the 3 amigos never come on.

[ozscott]

It is an interesting area..when i first got my D2 02 before CDL my dealer whose manager was a great bloke (and a mechanic who worked on early Discos and Countys) told me (before I went and proved him right) that on Straddie in deep sand the traction controlled D2 did very well and that against the Defender Extremes of the same year that had ETC and CDL locked there wasnt much in it with the Discos just needing another 500-1000 revs to get through some deep deep stuff - he put the Defeers ahead a bit because of the better beach tyres.

I asked him whether I could install CDL and it would all still work - and work like the Defenders. He told me that a bloke in Melbourne had done that and wrecked his gearbox and had then sought warranty against LR. LR refused and it allegedly got to litigation and apparently this fellow went away.

The manager put it down to this - the fact that the ETC was trying to brake wheels and it was possible that it would brake in such a way that the drive wasnt properly distributed and it put strain back on the box. I said well whats the go with the Extreme and he said that LR had told them that the software program for the D2 with no CDL was much more aggressive than the Defender and that CDL in the D2 was certainly not compatible.

I know that quite a few people have installed CDL into their D2, but I have never quite resolved all this in my mind. I suppose that if 2 wheels on the same axle braked simultaneously with CDL engaged that could cause a problem.

I know from doing quite a bit of offroading in mine from hard state forests to deep sand towing a large dual axle van in deep sand that the traction control is a pretty amazing thing, and with bigger tyres it just gets better.

Cheers

[Slunnie]

I added CDL to mine as one of the first modifications (Bar, barrier and CDL). That was done in 2001 and the only comment that I can make about it, are that it has made offroad performance better than what it was, and it would be my first offroading modification. There were stories around at the time of "cascade failures" that would happen and the world would stop spinning on its axis, those in the know said that it couldn't be done and you would have to disable the ETC etc etc etc.

In reality, it is a standard modification to 99-01 D2's and they work very very well. There are a lot of people that run ETC and CDL locked.

I would make the modification and never look back. You also cant get the situation where it tries to apply ETC to an axle group and not the other with the CDL locked. Likewise, if you use lockers and CDL and ETC, then it still only gets better and it works. Fully locked also has very very little impact on the ETC apart from when the axles are flexing a lot, though there is not a problem.

[Urban Panzer]

Heres a "few" scenarios REF Diff locks and ETC, you will see that the Defender ETC works a little different to the D2. The FACTS below :)

With respect to the mechanical effect of adding traction diffs with or without CDL, it breaks down like this:

Without CDL:
No traction diffs: 1 wheel must turn
1 Traction diff: 1 wheel must turn
2 Traction diffs: 2 wheels must turn (both on same axle)

With CDL:
No traction diffs: 2 wheels must turn (one on each axle)
1 Traction diff: 3 wheels must turn
2 Traction diffs: 4 wheels must turn

This will tell you that fitting a single traction diff is a total waste of time if you can't lock the CDL. Fitting 2 traction diffs offers no more traction and is in practice inferior to just adding CDL (CDL ensure drive to both axles and is approx 1/5th the cost). This is why most people agree that the single most effect traction modification is to add CDL.

Given that you have a traction diff installed it is 200% more effective if CDL is engaged. With 2 traction diffs installed they are 100% more effective if CDL is engaged.

It is for this reason that I chose to install CDL first then fit an ARB locker to the rear. This guarantees 3 wheels must turn with ETC assisting on the front axle. This provide awesome traction and no bad handling traits whatsoever.

What happens if you add ETC into the equation?

ETC for all its mysteries simply applies the brakes to a wheel that the ABS sensors detect is spinning faster than the others. The more mechanical diff locks you have, the less ETC will have to do, as more of the wheels are mechanically forced to turn at the same speed.

There are 8 possible diff combinations for the DII:

Standard - Front Diff Open, Rear Diff Open, Centre diff Open:
Mechanical Result: all four wheels may spin at different speeds.
ETC solution: compare speed of each wheel to that of the average of all four and apply brake to up to three wheels at any one time if their speed is greater than the average.
(Note: This is how the standard DII ETC program works. It needs to compare each wheel's speed to that of the average of all four. As designed, the DII's ETC needs to be able to apply the brake to up to three wheels simultaneously. This gives it the ability to send power not only across each axle, but also from front to rear. This is why it is said to function diagonally.)

Front & Rear Diffs Open, Centre diff locked:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on each axle may spin at different speeds but average speed of wheels on front & rear axles is the same.
ETC solution:-compare speed of wheels across each axle, apply brake to up 2 wheels, one front and one rear at any one time if their speed is greater than opposite wheel on same axle.
(This is the standard ETC program for the Defender Extreme. Its program needs only ever to compare the speed of each wheel to its opposite number. It only ever needs to send power across each axle. This is why the Defender Extreme ETC is said to work across the axle.)
(Note D11's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will only ever find one wheel on each axle that is spinning faster than the average, therefore will operate correctly.)

Front diff Open, Rear Diff Locked, Centre diff locked:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on front axle may spin at different speeds. Average speed of wheels on front & rear axles is the same. Speed of both rear wheels is the same.
ETC solution: compare speed of wheels across front axle, apply brake to which ever front wheel is spinning fastest.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will only ever find one front wheel spinning faster than average, therefore will operate correctly)

Front diff Locked, Rear Diff Open, Centre diff locked:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on front axle must spin at same speed. Average speed of wheels on front & rear axles is the same. Rear Wheels may spin at different speeds.
ETC solution: compare speed of wheels across rear axle, apply brake to which ever rear wheel is spinning fastest.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will only ever find one rear wheel spinning faster than average, therefore will operate correctly)

Front diff Locked, Rear Diff Locked, Centre diff open:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on front axle must spin at same speed. Front & rear axle may spin at different speeds. Rear Wheels must spin at same speeds.
ETC solution: compare speed of front and rear axles, apply brake to both front Or both rear wheels to slow which ever axle is spinning the fastest.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will only ever find that both front or both rears are simultaneously spinning faster than average, therefore will operate correctly)

Front Locked, Rear Diff Locked, Centre diff Locked:
Mechanical Result: All wheels must spin at same speed.
ETC solution:-None required, no matter which way it compares it can't find any difference in wheel speeds so does nothing.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will never find any wheel spinning faster than the average, therefore will operate correctly)

** Front open, Rear Diff Locked, Centre diff open:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on front axle can spin at different speeds. Front & rear axle may spin at different speeds. Rear Wheels must spin at same speeds.
ETC solution: compare speed of each front wheels and rear axle, apply brake to up to three wheels, i.e. both rear and one front, or both front or one front.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will find that one or both fronts are spinning faster than the average, both rears are simultaneously spinning faster than average, or both rears & one front are spinning faster than average, therefore will operate correctly)

** Front locked, Rear Diff Open, Centre diff open:
Mechanical Result: Wheels on front must spin at same speeds. Front & rear axle may spin at different speeds. Rear wheels can spin at different speeds.
ETC solution: compare speed of front axle to each rear wheel, apply brake to upto three wheels, ie both front and one rear, or both rear, or one rear.
(Note: DII's ETC will compare each wheel to average and will find that one or both rears are spinning faster than the average, both fronts are simultaneously spinning faster than average, or both fronts & one rear are spinning faster than average, therefore will operate correctly)

** This is why ARB advise that there is little point installing a locker without CDL as it still require brakes to be applied to up to three wheels, as does the standard DII.

So basically :-----------

What this all means is that the DII ETC programing simply becomes more redundant as mechanical locks are installed. But no combination of lockers can ever cause it to incorrectely detect which offending wheel needs braking. It just that more simple programing could have done the same job.

The only shortfall with the simpler program of the Defender Extreme is when the Extreme doesn't have its CDL engaged it cannot force power fore and aft, so can only ever force power to the wheel with the second least amount of traction. The DII can always force it to the one with the most traction.

Once CDL is engaged, both systems will work in effectively the same way.

(Note: Throughout, "Traction diff" refers to either a front or rear aftermarket diff lock or limited slip diff, e.g. ARB Air Locker/Detroit Tru- Trac)

[ozscott]

Thanks UP - its ok to hear people say its ok, but its better to see/understand that its ok - ie that its ok to have etc and cdl.

Thanks very much for the time you have put into this.:)

Cheers

[McDisco]

Wow....good explanation. That pretty much confirms what I was going to do. Cant really afford front and rear diff locks so I was thinking that the combination of CDL, rear diff lock and TC would be nearly as good. Not many situations I reckon where the front diff lock would make a huge difference.

Angus

[ozscott]

I think thats up for debate matey. If you going up a hill the weight transfers more to the rear and is likely to give you better traction than the front even with rear open diff - the front starts to spin, so having a locker up front would probably help more than the rear, if you only have cash for one.

Cheers

[Slunnie]

My experiences from driving with a blow rear diff.... is that the front end has surprisingly little traction, and when climbing it will have next to none.

The rear diff has most of the weight of the vehicle sitting on it and it will provide a lot of the drive as it generates most of the traction. If you are spinning tyres already, 1 front and 1 rear.... then the rear will have more to offer.

[ozscott]

I appreciate Slunnies explanation. I used to think that made sense. My brother who fits them for a living has a different view to the theory that rear first is best. It seems that particularly IFS benefit from front first. I did say it was up for debate - I wasnt dogmatic about it (although I suppose Slunnie can be more 'dogmatic':) ) Here is an explanation from http://www.pps.net.au/4wdencounter/articles/difflocks.html:


"So now your aware of the differences between the types of lockers avaliable, which is the best place to fit a single diff lock, front or rear? This is actually a loaded question as it depends on the type of terrain and your vehicle type, but in a nutshell I believe the front is the best place. This is especially so for independent front suspension vehicles which easily lift a wheel even on modest terrain. Additionally, most vehicles these days already have a rear LSD so why fit a locker to the rear and leave the front diff open? Its a better option to fit the locker to the front and leave the LSD in place. When the vehicle has open diffs back and front there are still advantages for a front fitment. When in sand or mud the fitting of a locker to the front will have a greater effect. If hill climbs are your main speciality then a rear fitment may be a better choice as there is a significant weight transfer to the rear axle when going uphill. However if the hillclimb requires large rocks, gullies or shelves to be driven over, then a front locker will drive over the obstacle rather than being pushed up it from behind. As you can see, there is no right or wrong answer, just different choices depending on individual factors. "

Having said all that a Disco is a Disco and has light front end and good travel and live axles front and rear, so I would be more inclined to follow people like Slunnie than the general theories, but have a think about your driving and where your likely to go before committing.

Cheers

[simonr23]

yeah i can agree with what that article says. slunnies points are validated re- hill climbing, but for the muddy/sandy gear and can appreciate the extra stabilty and "pull" a locked front end would give.

[green man]

The manager put it down to this - the fact that the ETC was trying to brake wheels and it was possible that it would brake in such a way that the drive wasnt properly distributed and it put strain back on the box. I said well whats the go with the Extreme and he said that LR had told them that the software program for the D2 with no CDL was much more aggressive than the Defender and that CDL in the D2 was certainly not compatible.

I know that quite a few people have installed CDL into their D2, but I have never quite resolved all this in my mind. I suppose that if 2 wheels on the same axle braked simultaneously with CDL engaged that could cause a problem.
Cheers

This is effectively what I was told by both mechanics (one LR trained, t'other an independent).

UP.....thanks heaps for your indepth reply, it was more than I expected when I popped the question. It has more than cleared it up for me.:)

Can you explain the quote below from your later post...what is the SLABS ECU and where is it?

I had heard yrs ago on Overlander Forum that there was a re-wiring mod to that involved a jumper from the ?CDL warning light to ??? (can't remember) to solve the problem. Slunnie might know as I think he was involved in the thread.

UP wrote:-
You can eliminate this problem totally by cutting the wire from the diff lock switch that goes to the SLABS ecu, that way it does not matter when you engage the CDL. This is how the 03 / 04 's are, I can start / stop, disengage / engage etc any time, and the 3 amigos never come on.

cheers and thanks again

[Urban Panzer]

SLABS ECU --- Self levelling Anti lock brakes ECU

Hi to get to the wire,

remove the trim under the glove box. There you will find 2 or 3 ECU's depending on the spec of your vehicle. The SLABS ecu is most likely the centre of the 3, now find the black / blue wire running to pin 9 of the plug, it is the central pin on the lower row, You need to cut this wire and either tape the ends, or as I did fit some "bullet" connectors to enable it to be re-connected at a later date if required. Make sure you have the correct pin / wire BEFORE you cut it.

What this does is stop the SLABS ECU putting the 3 amigos on (ABS ,TC, HDC) lights "if" you start the car with the difflock engaged. If you cut the wire the car dont care if difflock is in or out.

And despite what you may have heard previously, if you don't cut the wire and the 3 amigos light up, it is ONLY the TC that is fully inhibited, the ABS and HDC still function, but at reduced parameters.

Some people like it this way, no idea why, imo CDL and TC is the best of both worlds and as close as you'll get to lockers in your diffs/

[Tombie]

I have just fitted the linkage from an '03/'04 model to my 2000. I have been advised NOT to use the diff lock without first disabling TC as there will been opposing forces (braking v driving) if TC is working. Two mechanics have told me this but I am getting different opinions from users in the field. I'd be interested in opinions here.

Begs the question....what happens in the '03/'04 models when CDL is engaged? I imagine there are differences in the computer settings from '00 to '03


many thanks

TC is all about opposing forces... TC wont hurt CDL at all, just improves overall performance...

Just use it and enjoy...

I have a momentary switch I use when re-starting with CDL locked so that I can keep it locked and have CDL/TC

[Slunnie]

I had heard yrs ago on Overlander Forum that there was a re-wiring mod to that involved a jumper from the ?CDL warning light to ??? (can't remember) to solve the problem. Slunnie might know as I think he was involved in the thread.

UP wrote:-
You can eliminate this problem totally by cutting the wire from the diff lock switch that goes to the SLABS ecu, that way it does not matter when you engage the CDL. This is how the 03 / 04 's are, I can start / stop, disengage / engage etc any time, and the 3 amigos never come on.

cheers and thanks again

All I did was picked up the CDL wire from the transfer case and included a switch into it which I put on the dash. When I start the disco with the CDL locked, then I just open the switch while starting and then reclose it. This allows the CDL dash light to be maintained.

I really like UP's mod as detailed here. I had heard of this mod before, but access to the wire was a lot more complex and required disassembly of the centre console. UP's mod would most definately now be the way to do it as it maintains the CDL light on the dash and does not require driver intervention unless you wanted a situation where you were looking to disable ETC. I haven't yet found any time where nonETC is better than with ETC.

[green man]

Sounds like a great mod:) Once again.....many thanks for all your input:) I'll take a look on the RAVE CD for the SLABS ECU.

Daryl

[Urban Panzer]

Here is the plug and wire on the SLABS ecu that needs to be cut for those that wish to eliminate the 3 amigos from coming on, the ECU is under the trim panel under the glove box. PIN 9 black and Blue wire

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/08/280.jpg

[biggin]

Forgive me if I am repeating what others have already stated, but I'm just trying to get this clear in my own head.

This is how I understand it:

With blue wire NOT cut;
- Engaging the cdl with the motor running will allow the TC to operate as normal with no other amigoes lit.
- Engaging the cdl with motor off will cause the TC to NOT operate and ABS and HDC to operate at reduced parameters, when the motor is eventually started, and amigoes will be lit.

With the blue wire cut;
- This will disconnect the TC permanently, whether the cdl is engaged or not, and will eliminate the amigo lights from coming on.

With the blue wire cut and a switch installed across it;
- This is used to open the blue wire circuit when starting the vehicle when the cdl is engaged, thereby allowing the TC to operate normally.
I guess this is to prevent the need to engage and disengage the cdl each time the motor is turned on and off.
If the switch is a normally closed pushbutton type, it would be necessary to keep the switch pushed in while starting the vehicle then letting it go when it has started.

Sorry if I have confused the issue but I am in the process of installing the cdl internals and want to make sure I have got this right.

My goal is to be able to run CDL and TC together without having to get under the car each time I stop, or have irritating dash lights come up.

Please let me know if I am close to the mark here (or NOT:D).

Cheers,
biggin.

[JayBee75]

Forgive me if I am repeating what others have already stated, but I'm just trying to get this clear in my own head.

This is how I understand it:

With blue wire NOT cut;
- Engaging the cdl with the motor running will allow the TC to operate as normal with no other amigoes lit.
- Engaging the cdl with motor off will cause the TC to NOT operate and ABS and HDC to operate at reduced parameters, when the motor is eventually started, and amigoes will be lit.

With the blue wire cut;
- This will disconnect the TC permanently, whether the cdl is engaged or not, and will eliminate the amigo lights from coming on.

With the blue wire cut and a switch installed across it;
- This is used to open the blue wire circuit when starting the vehicle when the cdl is engaged, thereby allowing the TC to operate normally.
I guess this is to prevent the need to engage and disengage the cdl each time the motor is turned on and off.
If the switch is a normally closed pushbutton type, it would be necessary to keep the switch pushed in while starting the vehicle then letting it go when it has started.

Sorry if I have confused the issue but I am in the process of installing the cdl internals and want to make sure I have got this right.

My goal is to be able to run CDL and TC together without having to get under the car each time I stop, or have irritating dash lights come up.

Please let me know if I am close to the mark here (or NOT:D).

Cheers,
biggin.

Hi Biggin,
I am about to install my ashcrofts CDL lever and am wondering the same, thing, personally I don't want to cut any wires, so my understanding is:

- Turn Car on, start motor, then engage CDL.

- When car comes to a stop before turning engine off disengage CDL, then turn car off.

This way you get no warning lights or the like. Happy to be corrected, like biggin I want to ensure I get it right.

Thanks

[biggin]

I don't know Jaybee,
Having read this thread again, it seems for my 2002 D2 I must cut the wire to retain TC. It may be different for pre 2000.
I wish to retain TC, but still am not 100% sure.
Hope someone here can set me straight. New CDL is now installed, but I'm to scared to do anything with it in case the TC disappears.
Sorry for harping on.:angel::wasntme:
cheers,
biggin

[Urban Panzer]

Ok here it is in the simplest way I can think off.............:)

If you fit a CDL, and DO NOT cut the wire, then start the car WITH the CDL ENGAGED, the TC is DISENGAGED 100%, You retain ABS and HDC but at reduced parameters and have the 3 little buggers on the dash, to get TC back, you simply turn off and restart with the CDL DISENGAGED.

if you DO CUT the wire to the SLABS, then the ECU DOES NOT CARE whether or not if the CDL IS ENGAGED when you start the car, you ALWAYS have CDL + TC (best option imo)

Fitting a switch is one way of doing it, but even that is not really needed because you can just start with or without the CDL engaged to get or not get TC.

Fit, Cut and forget "imo" ;)

NOTE the cutting is NOT needed on Facelift D2's, as they have a later SLABS ecu.

[stevep84]

I have an 01 TD5, which i have to engage the CDL manually, with a spanner. If i want TC on i engage the CDL with the engine running and if i dont want TC i engage the CDL before i start. I dont really see the need for a switch or any wire cutting. Hope thats easy to understand.

Steve

[strangy]

The only trouble when cutting the wire is, you have no indication that the CDL is engaged other than the gear lever position. This is easily over looked especially if the truck is driven by others ie.SWMBO or mates and self is no exception.
Engaging/disengaging your CDL in a particular sequence or switching a switch ( switching is no different to select CDL before or after starting) is a minor inconvenience compared to winding up and breaking drive train components.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers

[biggin]

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. It all makes sense to me now.
I think I'll get the RAVE schematics out and see if I can work out a way to have the wire cut (I don't want to loose TC), and still have the switch bring up the cdl dash light.
Couldn't be that hard.....could it!:D

[Urban Panzer]

The only trouble when cutting the wire is, you have no indication that the CDL is engaged other than the gear lever position. This is easily over looked especially if the truck is driven by others ie.SWMBO or mates and self is no exception.
Engaging/disengaging your CDL in a particular sequence or switching a switch ( switching is no different to select CDL before or after starting) is a minor inconvenience compared to winding up and breaking drive train components.

Just my 2 cents

This makes no sense to me at all, The dash light is enough to tell you the CDL is engaged, I think your maybe getting a little confused, or been badly advised....

Cutting the wire only stops the SLABS feed, it has ZERO affect on the dash light

[Urban Panzer]

EDITED for double post due to Proxy avoidance at work ;)

[strangy]

This makes no sense to me at all, The dash light is enough to tell you the CDL is engaged, I think your maybe getting a little confused, or been badly advised....

Cutting the wire only stops the SLABS feed, it has ZERO affect on the dash light

Ahhh, I see.

I was under the impression that cutting the wire also took out the indicator light. Thanks for making that clear.

Sorry for adding to the confusion.:bangin:

[John W]

Just to confirm that I cut the wire when I installed a CDL a couple of years back and all that Urban Panzer has to say is 100% true. At first I was not looking at the wiring straight and cut the wrong wire. Even so there were no malfunctions so not sure what I cut at first. Sorted it out rejoined that wire and then cut the right one. TC every time, all good.

[chrisduryea]

Just found this link regarding the CDL if anyone is interested.

http://www.enter360.com/rennie/tcase/tcase.pdf

Cheers
Chris

[Rudolf]

This makes no sense to me at all, The dash light is enough to tell you the CDL is engaged, I think your maybe getting a little confused, or been badly advised....

Cutting the wire only stops the SLABS feed, it has ZERO affect on the dash light
one thing to check if the dash light does not come on is to test the switch on the transfer box.
Mine packed up for some reason. Did not see that the diff lock was on on drove 40Km's on tar. Only realised this when turning sharp in parking area (Smooth Concrete) with the tyres screaming.

[Moo]

Hi all
Have been reading this thread with interest.
We took our 01 Disco auto V8 for its first outing on the sand at fraser last week.
I bogged it 10m from the barge in soft sand. Mind you I was towing a heavy camper and probably did not have enough speed up.
Anyway - this was my first experience with the TC.

As we sunk into the sand only the front passenger wheel spun, the others just stuck fast with no movement. The TC indicator came on when I reved but of course there was no movement.

Is this indicative of the TC working properly? I thought it should have been the other way around - ie: the wheel that spun should have braked and the others moved.

Is this a sign of the TC malfunctioning. If not, then I will be looking at activating the CDL, if it has it, or installing same.

Regards

[ozscott]

If TC is working properly you should see some movement from the other wheels. Lower pressures would get you through. But yep CDL helps in sand.

CHEERS

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Welcome to AULRO.COM Moo:D

What tyre pressures were you running?
What lights were on on the dash?
just how heavy was the camper?

[Moo]

Thanks for the response guys.
Tyre pressures weren't optimal - probably about 20psi. The camper tyres were not down enough either.
All the wheels kept driving until we got fully stuck - then with low range engaged in 2nd gear (auto) just the passenger front spun and the others stayed still.
The TC light came on when the wheel was spinning.
The camper was probably 1.5 t, but the angle of the draw bar was not optimal either in that it was pointing down and I think this was acting as a plough - will fix that this weekend.

My dealer (british off road, Nambour) sent me an email explaining what to look for to see if the CDL is there but not activated.

But - I was looking for your thoughts about how it reacted on the day. Seemed to work ok without the camper in teh sand.

regards

[Tombie]

Normal for an open diff'd centre unlocked 4wd...

If you had (and glad you didnt) revved the backside out of it you would have seen something happen (but not in a good way).

20psi isnt bad, but you are supposed to air trailers down as well.

Get a CDL kit, TC + CDL are made for one another... Without CDL the Disco lacks on sand.

[ozscott]

I agree with Toombie to an extent. Taking off from stationary is the biggest issue where CDL assists. HOWEVER, I spent 7 years with a D2 V8 Manual with only traction control doing a lot of sand driving and towing heavy campers and once a 2.2 Tonn 22 foot dual axle van at Straddie. Tyre pressures and plenty of right foot and the right gear did the trick every time.

Cheers

[Moo]

Thanks again
Just one other thing. I checked out under the car today and the transfer case does not have the CDL shaft so, as I understand, it is not the case that it just needs to be activated.

Would it be better to just get the CDL kit assembly fitted to replace whats there or is there another option of fitting after market lockers to the diffs?

If so, what would be the best option?

Thanks

[ozscott]

mate there are heaps of threads on this - have a search. The short answer is you will have to do what I have done and that is an output housing and internals from a Disco 1 or get the aftermarket kit from the UK but that gets very expensive. I had mine done for about $1,500 and use a simple push pull t handle on the transmission tunnel. You can use a D1 shifter complete. No pt having lockers without the centre diff locked (and wont help on the beach really - tiny difference in sand dune climbing) and CDL and traction control together on the beach is sweet.

Cheers

[wanglemoose]

More info on cutting the slabs wire, with photos and a video of the result of using the CDL with the wire cut and uncut. i put a switch in mine so i could easily turn the tcs off for dyno work. The CDL actuator i used is crude but is does the job and only cost $20(second vid).

[Roscoe]

Hi Wranglemoose,
I wish i could say thanks for the videos, but pulling a lever and watching the lights on your dash go on and off are not helpful at all.
cheers