D3 TDV6 Response issue

[Peter_OZ]

Morning folks,
we have a Aug 07 D3 TDV6 that we got new. Ever since takling delivery it has had a response issue in that when accelerating out of a roundabout, into a gap in traffic such as changing lanes or slowing down tothen accelerate out of a corner the then will go into "limbo" land for a few seconds while it thinks about it then tears off like a lunatic.

It can be damn dangerous if you go to pull out into traffic as you are never sure when it is going to hesitate. We have been nearly cleaned up on several occasions.

I have had it into LR on countless occasions and they even took it to their head office maintenance people in Sydney for 3 weeks to go right over it.

Problem still persists. LR do the usual "yeah we reflashed the S/W" or the tired old " it is turbo lag" what rubbishI know turbo lag and this is not that.

Interestingly we have been given loan D3 of the same engine / drivetrain now on at least 4 occasions and each time the loan car drives beatifully with no response issue yet LR now refuse to even look at the problem.

Has anybody else expereinced this problem?

If so how was it addressed or what did you do to get satisfaction.

thanks in advance.

cheers
Peter

[WhiteD3]

Peter,

I assume being a Briso you take it to Southside's service centre in Woolloongabba? When were you last there? There's got a new service manager and I've found the service has improved significantly recently.

Cheers.

[Peter_OZ]

Peter,

I assume being a Briso you take it to Southside's service centre in Woolloongabba? When were you last there? There's got a new service manager and I've found the service has improved significantly recently.

Cheers.


Nope we go to Austral motors in the Valley as we both work in the CBD and it is convenient.

thanks
cheers
Peter

[drivesafe]

Hi Peter, first off, if you can, take it to Southside, although they are owned by the same company as Austral:twisted:, Southside are a far better mob to deal with.

Next, my 08 RR did the same as your D3 and came close on two occasions to having an accident because of it.

The dealership looked into it and could not find a problem nor could they find anything relating to it a through LR.

Mine just seemed to learn and the problem no long happens.

[Rob Bruce]

Peter, Try and get it sorted by a good dealer as said in previous post, then you could try blanking the EGR valves and removeing the butterfly in the inlet.
There is a section on this on Disco3 UK forem that will explain all.

Cheers
Rob

[simonr23]

sorry to hear about the issues. legally, the dealer must keep trying to rectify the issue until solved. if they are saying that they've wasted enough time/ cant be fixed/etc they are breaking the law. if they are saying they cant replicate the problem, but you know it does it very often, go with them for the test drive. test drive one or two of their cars for comparison- with them alongside, for confirmation that yours is the exception. no need to use raised voice or get angry. if after this process they still try to wash their hands of you, a simple call to your local consumer affairs department will have them searching for a solution. lemon laws do apply in most states for new vehicles...

[Forest]

The D3's are a bit laggy. I think it is more laggy if you floor it. It seems to repond better to gradual inputs. When doing the roundabout "thing" I have learnt to either left foot brake, or just anticipate a touch, and no stress.

However, you say that the ones you have been lent are ok. So, take the Service Manager out in one you have been lent, then take him out in yours, and get him to explain the difference.

As a guide, if I floor mine, it takes about half a second to respond, and about another half a second to actually get going. (seems like an eternitiy if you are trying to pick the gap). Again, I have just learnt to adjust my driving. I think about half throttle to get going then foot down further once going is the best approach. After getting out of an eight, yep took a bit of getting used to but now, all good. Basically a squeeze on the accelerator rather than a shove seems to do the job.

[Peter_OZ]

Hi Peter, first off, if you can, take it to Southside, although they are owned by the same company as Austral:twisted:, Southside are a far better mob to deal with.

Next, my 08 RR did the same as your D3 and came close on two occasions to having an accident because of it.

The dealership looked into it and could not find a problem nor could they find anything relating to it a through LR.

Mine just seemed to learn and the problem no long happens.

hmm well they told me mine would learn to but so far it just seems to be getting worse. One of them actually said to flog the car to make it learn!! If I wanted a car to drive in that manner I would have got a grey import drifter type of car.

I have put them on notice that it is safety issue and for it to be fixed or for them to take the car back and pay out the lease. They wont do either so guess I have to pursue other options.

[Peter_OZ]

Peter, Try and get it sorted by a good dealer as said in previous post, then you could try blanking the EGR valves and removeing the butterfly in the inlet.
There is a section on this on Disco3 UK forem that will explain all.

Cheers
Rob


Good dealer? hehe that is funny. As the vehicle is under warranty I'm not about to fiddle with it as I would risk voiding it.
thanks though

[Peter_OZ]

sorry to hear about the issues. legally, the dealer must keep trying to rectify the issue until solved. if they are saying that they've wasted enough time/ cant be fixed/etc they are breaking the law. if they are saying they cant replicate the problem, but you know it does it very often, go with them for the test drive. test drive one or two of their cars for comparison- with them alongside, for confirmation that yours is the exception. no need to use raised voice or get angry. if after this process they still try to wash their hands of you, a simple call to your local consumer affairs department will have them searching for a solution. lemon laws do apply in most states for new vehicles...

Have already donethe test drive and compare other vehcile bit, they admit mine has a problem but they cant figure it out as as they took it for 3 weeks to sydney to sort it out they paid me amonths lease so they now mistakenly think that is the end of it. Bzzzt wrong.

Consume affiards etc is my next step.

and Mr LR if you read these threads I do suggest you came up with a solution as I am most unsatisfied and increasingly ****ed off customer.

I di not drop nearly $100k for it to perfom in this manner where my family and my safety is at risk.

Sorry guys, having a vent too :twisted:

[CaverD3]

D3s do tend to have a lag but mine was greatly improved by the enhancement program. There have been instances where this did not take, a re-flash will not fix and it has to be stripped and re-loaded, dealer will not want to do this without OK from LR as it is a long process.
I had some corrupted files which caused problems too as wll as cold starting issues. Files replaced and fixed.
Recently a fuel preeure issue TSb was carried out which made an improvement in performance.
The lag is more asscociated with the auto box rather than engine there will be times when it will find itself in the wrong gear and will not kick down as you learn how the box works and the box learns your driving style things will improve. The re-flash may have set the box again and you are back to square one.
A few folks on th disco3 site had the same issue, suggest you stick a post on there and see what solutions they found from the dealers.

Here are some to get you started:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Acceleration hesitation at rolling stops (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic10337.html)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Throttle delay (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic10616.html)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Automatic transmission hesistates when changing up into 2nd! (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19537.html)

[Peter_OZ]

D3s do tend to have a lag but mine was greatly improved by the enhancement program. There have been instances where this did not take, a re-flash will not fix and it has to be stripped and re-loaded, dealer will not want to do this without OK from LR as it is a long process.
I had some corrupted files which caused problems too as wll as cold starting issues. Files replaced and fixed.
Recently a fuel preeure issue TSb was carried out which made an improvement in performance.
The lag is more asscociated with the auto box rather than engine there will be times when it will find itself in the wrong gear and will not kick down as you learn how the box works and the box learns your driving style things will improve. The re-flash may have set the box again and you are back to square one.
A few folks on th disco3 site had the same issue, suggest you stick a post on there and see what solutions they found from the dealers.

Here are some to get you started:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Acceleration hesitation at rolling stops (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic10337.html)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Throttle delay (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic10616.html)

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Automatic transmission hesistates when changing up into 2nd! (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic19537.html)


ok thanks for that, it does appear to be a txmn problem and before it does kick down it clunks! Bloody thing


Just been into those threads and posted. Seems they have the exact same thing up in the UK and other countries that I am suffering from with my D3.

cheers
PEter

RC Models and Supplies, Radio Control Model Hobby Supplies - Anthony's Pete-n-Planes (http://www.petenplanes.com.au)

[gghaggis]

I haven't heard of 2007 models having trouble with the turbo, but some of the 2005 and early 2006 D3's were found to have sticking turbo vanes, which can be the cause of such symptoms. As far as I know, this doesn't set off any fault codes, so wouldn't be detected by the normal diagnostics routines.

The 2007 loaners I've had have always had less lag (and more oomph!) than my 2006. With mine, driving in Sports mode reduces the tx lag.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Peter_OZ]

I'm not convinced it is a s/w issue. all the 2007 / 20008 loan D3 we have had have not had the response hesitation issue.

But LR refuse to look at Hardware and only look at the s/w, if it does not give a fault code then as far as tey are concered it does not exist which is nonsense.

[Diego Luego]

I drive a '08 TDV6 RRS and it doesn't have unusual lag.

BUT.....

My wife owns a petrol VW Golf and every now and then it behaves exactly as your Disco. The veedub dealer was polite enough but not really interested as I can't replicate it on command. Just gave the usual platitudes. I,m still trying to get it sorted.

I think in my case the transmission does not kick down to first or second and tries to start off in a high gear. It can be very scary if you are trying to accelerate into traffic.

[CaverD3]

I had a VW Golf diesel did similar, but would also judder on hills as it would not drop a gear (DSG box) also clouds of black smoke. Dealer tied all sorts of things to fix incuding new turbo and new box. Eventually got solicitors advice to frame a letter to VW. Dealer eventually got VW to replace the vehicle.
Two months later I saw the VW head office tech driving it. He told me it turned out to be the ECU, which they replaced. ECU was saying "All well" when it was sick itself!
Try to keep the dealer on side. It is easier if he fights the battle for you.
Take notes of all symptoms and work that has been done with dates. THen if you need to put it in writing, first to dealer then to LR they are more likely to take note.

How long have you let the Auto box learn before dealer has re-set it again?

[cdrtravis]

Yep, I've had a few instances when I've floored my TDV6 Disco from a rolling start to pull out of a junction quickly or to nip into a gap in the traffic, and there has been hesitation. I've adapted to it exactly like Forest - partial throttle rather than stamping the pedal to the floor. Now I can't even remember the last time it happened to me.

In general, the car seems to respond better to partial throttle than heavy foot treatment. Ride that torque wave!

[simonr23]

i think thats something all turbo diesels benefit from. the injectors are alot quicker to respond to the throttle than the turbo has been my guess. lots of fuel and not much air can make a slow getaway.

[Peter_OZ]

still has the issue after 48,000km

is much better after the trans and engine has been reflashed then it slowly comes back as the adapative things learns bad habits again.

[CaverD3]

There is a transmission software upgrade and a turbo vane software upgrade. Like chalk and cheese since it was done and better fuel economy. I think the software for the turbo exercises the vanes more often to stop them getting sticky.

[Peter_OZ]

ahh well it goes in for 48k service next Tues so will get them to do both of those.
cheers
Peter

[SuperMono]

is much better after the trans and engine has been reflashed then it slowly comes back as the adapative things learns bad habits again.

I found the adaptive features in a couple of previous cars didn't like the difference in driving style between my wife and I.
My wife tends to use harsher throttle inputs compared to me and so she found 'my' car to be 'snatchy' and I found 'hers' to be 'hesitant'.
The traits followed the driver rather than the actual vehicle, I ended up resetting the learned behaviour (battery disconnect generally) on a regular basis and going with default settings.

[andycapper]

Hi Caver, how are you keeping these days...? Well I hope?

Re-the software updates, do you have dates and details - would be good to have on record for next service.

Also, did you have to pay to get them installed - last time I enquired about an update there was some reluctance and a cost involved...and no updates found to be necessary - seems they do not have a simple way to check update levels.

As to Gordon's comment, I agree with the (periodic) use of sport mode - it significantly reduces lag - tho if you leave it on all the time, fuel consumption will rise.

Similarly totally agree with others re-gentle initial application of throttle on the TD (particularly till turbo kicks in) with continued gradual application to support the torque, which produces surprisingly good performance for such a vehicle.

Possibly some expect the same response from the TD as a from the petrol engine but they need to be driven very differently to get the best from them - and some have said the diesel performs better in many situations....

Andy

[Scouse]

Also, did you have to pay to get them installed - last time I enquired about an update there was some reluctance and a cost involved...and no updates found to be necessary - seems they do not have a simple way to check update levels.Software upgrades are covered under warranty.
Outside warranty & it's up to the dealer if he charges you or not.

[CaverD3]

Hi Andy
Still crook with M.E. :( but slowly improving.:)

I'll find out about the updates when I go back soon for disks.
It depends on your relationship with the dealer. (you cannot expect the dealer to do the updates FOC if you get your services done at an indie)

[Peter_OZ]

had the 48 thou service done yesterday.

Dealer loaded lastest patches to engine and trans. Vehicle is a lot more responsive and at cruising speed it really has some poke. I was dawdling along the freeway last night and looked down to see it was over 120 kmh!! Umahhh :eek:

Hesistation seems to be gone but time will tell I guess. trans "thud" reduced but still there a bit.

If anyone has spongy brakes get the brake booster checked as the vac pump has an issue with a leaking bush that allows the booster to fill with oil and cause brake degradation.

cheers
Peter

[rabs999]

I hope they offered you some sort of apology for being prat's and not believing you? Good that t seems to be sorted. Like you say dropping over a hundy in to a new vehicle to then have "issues" ain't good.

BTW a customer of mine (I'm not in the auto industry) has a D3 which recently had some major issue with the bolt holding the brake booster coming off due to it's proximity to the exhaust system. :(
Apparently it took the dealer 3 days to rectify, apparently the position of the bolt/s meant the service tech's had go go by feel and not sight. Anyone else had similar issues.

His business partner runs a RR TDV6 which had a similar hesitation problem but turned out to be a blocked injector. I went for a drive in it a couple of weeks back and was super impressed with the smoothness of the diesel. I'll be upgrading to a TDV6 D3 once I've had enough of my V8 D2, which to be fair is a long way off...The again if oil decides to go nuts again I may be changing my tune. :D

[Peter_OZ]

still get a bit of hesitation now and then but not as noticeable. The trans thud is coming back though. Must be that adaptive thingy.

still no word as to when the parts to fix the brake booster will be in. :twisted: