Which DSLR?

[Col.Coleman]

Looking at spending around 2k to get myself a decent camera.

Looking at the EOS40D.

What lenses should I get is the main thing.

18-300?
Wide angle?
Macro?

Looking at stepping up from crap to something decent that I will keep for a long time to shoot everything from action to landscape to portrait to detail work.

If I know before friday I can get someone to pick something up in Hong Kong.

Help please

CC

[Phoenix]

40D is a nice camera (I have the 400D).

For glass, if you can afford it, go L Glass.

The 24-105MM USM L is a fantastic lens for a variety of uses and it has a very useful range.

[CraigE]

I am in the same boat and may go the EOS1000D route as I want something I can play with but my wife can pick up and shoot. I think that rules out the Pentax 200D as it takes a bit of knowledge to use. If I had the cash I would go the 40D. Camera House in currently have the 40D out for $2099. If you can afford it get the IS lenses. Expensive but a better option to avoid camera shake blurred photos. I intend getting the Canon EF 70-300 IS USM lens when I can afford it, but get a 75-300 standard lens with the 1000D kit so a good start. And a Macro lens EF-S 60mm f/2.8 USM.
Good luck as there are many confusing opinions and options around.
Cheers
CraigE

[Col.Coleman]

Craig,
have a look at Digital Camera warehouse.
All options bar macro under 2k. You still need to buy a mem card though

CC

[BMKal]

I am in the same boat and may go the EOS1000D route as I want something I can play with but my wife can pick up and shoot. I think that rules out the Pentax 200D as it takes a bit of knowledge to use. If I had the cash I would go the 40D. Camera House in currently have the 40D out for $2099. If you can afford it get the IS lenses. Expensive but a better option to avoid camera shake blurred photos. I intend getting the Canon EF 70-300 IS USM lens when I can afford it, but get a 75-300 standard lens with the 1000D kit so a good start. And a Macro lens EF-S 60mm f/2.8 USM.
Good luck as there are many confusing opinions and options around.
Cheers
CraigE

Doesn't take too much knowledge Craig - I just bought one. :eek2:

[dmdigital]

Just for info Canon has announced the replacement of the EOS 40D by the EOS 50D. This model has a couple of significant improvements to try and get in on the Nikon D300's abilities. Particularly a much higher resolution LCD and improved high end ISO and high fps rate. See dpreview.com for more information.

It will also mean the 40D should drop in price. I could never work out where Canon was going with the 40D anyway, not much of a step up on the previous model and certainly not a patch on its rival from Nikon.

[p38arover]

I was thinking along the lines of a Pentax DSLR so I can use my existing K-mount AF Pentax lenses from my Pentax SFx and SF7 SLRs.

[p38arover]

Look here: Steve's Digicams - The "Best" Digicams (http://www.steves-digicams.com/best_cameras.html)

I've used this bloke's reviews for my last two camera purchases.

[rmp]

Which DSLR. Firstly with DSLRs you are buying into a system, not just buying a camera. IMHO, that means Canon and Nikon are the only two options as the rest don't have as many options like lenses, flashes and the like.

Your choices in the Canon range are:

EOS-1000D
EOS-450D
EOS-50D (brand new)

I use a 20D, 30D and 40D for my work. The only reason I have the 40D over a 450D is because it has a fairly high frame rate -- continuous shoot -- compared to the others. There are other minor differences but that's the big reason for me.

If you intend to shoot a lot, and I mean a lot of action, get the 40D.

Otherwise, go for the 1000D, and put your money into lenses. I really would recommend this route. The 1000D can still be used for action shots, it'll be much better than a compact camera.

You will get much better quality images from a 1000D with say a 24-105L or 70-200L than a 40D with some of the midrange lenses. Lenses also depreciate a lot less quickly than bodies.

Which lenses you buy depends on what you want to do. You don't sound sure, so I'd get a medium zoom like the 24-105 if you can afford it. In general, landscape shots are taken with a wide angle, wildlife and portraits with a zoom. I have only three lenses; a 10-22, 24-105 and 70-200, and that covers me for everything. Don't get into macro just yet, get a medium lens, see how you, no rush. Lenses can easily be traded with little financial penalty.

Budget also for a good memory card -- I use Sandisk Xtreme III -- of at least 8Gb. Two cards. A second battery too, and a good bag like a Lowepro.

[rmp]

Just for info Canon has announced the replacement of the EOS 40D by the EOS 50D. This model has a couple of significant improvements to try and get in on the Nikon D300's abilities. Particularly a much higher resolution LCD and improved high end ISO and high fps rate. See dpreview.com for more information.

It will also mean the 40D should drop in price. I could never work out where Canon was going with the 40D anyway, not much of a step up on the previous model and certainly not a patch on its rival from Nikon.

The fps rate is the same as the 40D, around 6.4, and the buffer is close too. Given the 40D is already pretty low I don't think it'll drop much further.

I'd have preferred 10fps and 10Mp. I don't need 15Mp.

[Col.Coleman]

I wanted a weatherproof frame so will go with the 40D. Also I will use your suggestion of the 24-105L as a first lense then build from there.
Some people I know will pick one up for me from Hong Kong, so there is a chance I might end up with a 50D anyway as they are generally way ahead of what we have in the technology and release stakes.

I want to do low light portrait stuff(sexy pics), but I also want to capture my sons soccer, moutainbike action, 4wd days as well as when I bush walk, shoot the landscapes, flora, fauna and anything interesting I come across.

Given the dollars involved a quality alround lense for starters and build from there.

CC

[rmp]

I wanted a weatherproof frame so will go with the 40D. Also I will use your suggestion of the 24-105L as a first lense then build from there.
Some people I know will pick one up for me from Hong Kong, so there is a chance I might end up with a 50D anyway as they are generally way ahead of what we have in the technology and release stakes.

I want to do low light portrait stuff(sexy pics), but I also want to capture my sons soccer, moutainbike action, 4wd days as well as when I bush walk, shoot the landscapes, flora, fauna and anything interesting I come across.

Given the dollars involved a quality alround lense for starters and build from there.

CC

OK. Be aware the 40D is not weatherproof. You need the 1D for that. Having said that, I've used my 20D, 30D and 40D in wet conditions and none have suffered. Not a downpour, but drizzly mist, light rain and I've been careful. The L class lenses are weatherproof.

If you can afford a 40D without compromising on lens quality, get it.

[Col.Coleman]

OK. Weather resistant.:p

I can get a 40D TODAY for $1239 with 3 year warranty and invisible shield protection and a free camera bag. No lense.
24-105 EF f/4L IS USM $1399

I'll see how good Hong Kong can do

CC

[rmp]

Check out Digital SLR Cameras & Accessories | Canon Cameras | Nikon Cameras - Home (http://www.camerasdirect.com.au) too, I use them a lot. Recommended.

[Col.Coleman]

Even better. I looked at that mob before, but it was really confusing as I didn't know what I was looking at. I'm learning really fast now.

CC

[dullbird]

just so people know nikon are releasing a D90 it will replace the 80 although the 80 is going to continue running for a while

the 90 how ever is the first of their cameras to take video footage.

also the sensor has been lifted from the D300 and dropped into this..
12.1 or what ever it is mpix:)

[matbor]

just so people know nikon are releasing a D90 it will replace the 80 although the 80 is going to continue running for a while

the 90 how ever is the first of their cameras to take video footage.

also the sensor has been lifted from the D300 and dropped into this..
12.1 or what ever it is mpix:)

already out... well a day or so ago.... check nikon site... can pre-order from a few sites, including DigitalRev Products (http://www.digitalrev.com/en/products_search.php?category_id=0&search_category_id=0&search_string=Nikon+D90+DSLR&gclid=CPjivbblsZUCFQsQagodDH3Ckw)

Highly recommend DigitalRev, good prices, stock all comes from Hong Kong though, so watch your GST! Home - DSLR, Digital and Film Cameras (incl. Pro Cameras), Lenses and Accessories - DigitalRev (http://www.digitalrev.com) I have recently spent over $2k with him and two other mates have spent combined $5/6k so highly recommended him.

[Col.Coleman]

I found this article absolutely awesome for a newby like me looking at photography.
Canon EOS Beginners' FAQ (http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/)

Read it all, I know it is long multiple pages, but boy did I learn a heap and quickly.

I have narrowed my lens choice down to 4
EFS 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM (my wide angle)
EF 17-40mm f/4L USM (for bushwalking)
EF 24-105 f/4L IS USM (everyday and portrait)
EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS USM (telephoto and some sport)

Couple this with a 40D I should have the basis for a pretty good system for a while to come, and under 6k. Might get it under 5k out of HK.

Budget blew out a bit, but I'm the type to buy it all once as My money allocation will move elsewhere and the remaining items take a long time to come to fruition.

Could jag a 50D yet:cool:

CC

[rmp]

Bear in mind the 100-400 is a VERY big and heavy lens. And it's slow.

I would seriously consider the 70-200 f/4 L IS instead and add the 100-400 later.

I own both, and I wouldn't be without my 70-200, the 100-400 gets used very rarely.

[Col.Coleman]

Was trying not to overlap too much. The big one would only come out for tripod mounted sport, although the EF 100-400mm 2.8L IS USM would be SOOO much better to catch my sons soccer and the like. But $$$$. I'll look at the 70-200. Originally thought a 100-300, but with 1.6x a 200 or 250 looks the goods.

CC

[rmp]

Was trying not to overlap too much. The big one would only come out for tripod mounted sport, although the EF 100-400mm 2.8L IS USM would be SOOO much better to catch my sons soccer and the like. But $$$$. I'll look at the 70-200. Originally thought a 100-300, but with 1.6x a 200 or 250 looks the goods.

CC

Yes, I could see the logic. However some overlap is good. And remember for sports you need a fast shutter speed which means a fast lens. The 100-400 is not a fast lens so you'll need to push ISO hard instead and that's not good. I would go the 70-200 and if you really find you need the bigger lens you can trade it, but I'd be willing to bet you'll never part with it.

[Col.Coleman]

I can always fit a 2x adapter ring on a 70-200 as well.

CC

[rmp]

I can always fit a 2x adapter ring on a 70-200 as well.

CC

Yes, if that fits, it would be a pretty good solution. The 100-400 is so big and heavy you won't often want to carry it anywhere.

[Col.Coleman]

OK, In the 70-200 I there is not much diff $ wise between the 4L IS and the 2.8L non IS. Given it will mostly be used on a tripod, do you reckon the 2.8 is the go rather than the 4L IS.

Or have I just answered my own question.

CC

[rmp]

OK, In the 70-200 I there is not much diff $ wise between the 4L IS and the 2.8L non IS. Given it will mostly be used on a tripod, do you reckon the 2.8 is the go rather than the 4L IS.

Or have I just answered my own question.

CC

I'd get the f/4 IS. It's smaller and lighter, and the IS gives you some extra stops although it won't help with fast shutter speeds. However a 70-200 at 2.8 gives a very small DoF which you may want to avoid. So f/4 IS is my recommendation. I have one of these myself.

[Col.Coleman]

The 4L will only handle a 1.4x extension tube where the 2.8 will handle both the 1.4x and the 2x albeit with the loss of a couple of stops, but the ability to catch the live action should be better though I think. With Dof, with kids sport the blurred or soft focus background, you only get the shot of your kid and no others so less hassles with paranoid parents.

Have you seen that article I referred to in the link? Just wondering what you thought.
I still have 2 weeks until my friends hit HK so I still have time to get this one off purchase right.

CC

[Col.Coleman]

Now my list looks like this.
Out of Digital Rev, with my friends buying Duty Free in HK.

Canon EOS40D bundled with camera bag, gift pack and
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM $2950.41
Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM $ 755.00
Canon 17-40mm f/4L USM $ 802.00
Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM $1169.00
Canon 1.4x Teleconverter $ 422.00

Total $6098

Now to start haggling:D:D:D

CC

[ciapek]

Now my list looks like this.
Out of Digital Rev, with my friends buying Duty Free in HK.

Canon EOS40D bundled with camera bag, gift pack and
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM $2950.41
Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM $ 755.00
Canon 17-40mm f/4L USM $ 802.00
Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM $1169.00
Canon 1.4x Teleconverter $ 422.00

Total $6098

Now to start haggling:D:D:D

CC

Personally, I thing you are getting a whole lot of Glass that you will end up not mounting on the camera once the novelty wears off.
You also have overlapped your focal ranges many a time, and that does tell me that some lenses will be living in the kit bag with no use after you settle in on a favourite lens or two....So in effect money wasted.
In my opinion, I think, that if you do have a sizable disposable budget at hand, perhaps evaluate the following path.

Camera 40D + Battery Grip (extra power plus extra set of controls for Portraits)

Wide applications :16-35 f/2.8 L
General Purpouse: 24-70 f2.8 L
Mid to Tele: 70-200 f2.8 L

Three lenses, all fast, IS is over rated, practical focal range covered, get on with the joy of taking pictures, and not lugging a bag of glass anywhere you go.......

Also, keep in mind that in about two years when the 40D becomes obsolete and antiquated ;) Full Frame sensors should fall into norm/affordability the lenses will still keep on "giving" and you will not have to sell off your EF-S plastic lenses.......:D

[Ben]

With Dof, with kids sport the blurred or soft focus background, you only get the shot of your kid and no others so less hassles with paranoid parents.

From what I've seen, the hassles come about from simply taking a DSLR to an event, let alone having a big lens pointed vaguely in the direction of their concern. I'd be very surprised if they were satisfied with explanations of depth of field and bokeh.

There was an article on the SMH website a while back... right here, infact:
The Sydney Morning Herald Blogs: Photographers (http://blogs.smh.com.au/photographers/archives/2007/02/photography_is_not_a_crime.html)

Oh, and another one that came up in Google:
The Sydney Morning Herald Blogs: Who's Your Daddy (http://blogs.smh.com.au/lifestyle/whosyourdaddy/archives/2006/10/stranger_danger_1.html)

... Not that the 4L would be any different.

I don't quite understand the need to cover all focal lengths, but maybe that's because I've only come across "lazy" type photographers who zoom instead of position themselves and correctly compose. You've got your own inbuilt zoom functionality called legs :)

In your list, I reckon the 17-40 (though I'd go for the 16-35mm f/2.8L) and 70-200 would be your workhorses. Add a fast 50mm prime (with which your leg zoom becomes quite effective) and a 2x teleconvertor., and you'd have a great kit.

But, you'll find your own style regardless of what you get :)

[Col.Coleman]

Personally, I thing you are getting a whole lot of Glass that you will end up not mounting on the camera once the novelty wears off.
You also have overlapped your focal ranges many a time, and that does tell me that some lenses will be living in the kit bag with no use after you settle in on a favourite lens or two....So in effect money wasted.
In my opinion, I think, that if you do have a sizable disposable budget at hand, perhaps evaluate the following path.

Camera 40D + Battery Grip (extra power plus extra set of controls for Portraits)

Wide applications :16-35 f/2.8 L
General Purpouse: 24-70 f2.8 L
Mid to Tele: 70-200 f2.8 L

Three lenses, all fast, IS is over rated, practical focal range covered, get on with the joy of taking pictures, and not lugging a bag of glass anywhere you go.......

Also, keep in mind that in about two years when the 40D becomes obsolete and antiquated ;) Full Frame sensors should fall into norm/affordability the lenses will still keep on "giving" and you will not have to sell off your EF-S plastic lenses.......:D

The only lens that is EFS is the 10-22mm. all the rest are EF Luxury lenses. The reason I included that lens is the optics are reported as decent and with the 1.6x of the 40D, the 16 or 17 isn't as wide as I would like. Have been playing with my mates Leica and a 7-14 lens., so the 10 ends up at around 16. The 17-40 I plan to be the only lens I take on hikes and a converter. 24-105 will be on the frame 90% of the time for around home and portrait shots and the like. The sole reason for the 70-200 is for sport.
The zoom with your feet idea is fine, but sometimes sidelines on fields, fast moving vehicles you do not want to get run over by, and cliff faces do not always allow this.
I only plan to use 1 lens at any given time, NOT lug them around.

I value your input and will investigate this further. I just can't afford a 1D. Even this is a stretch to try and get a complete system.

CC

[rmp]

The only lens that is EFS is the 10-22mm. all the rest are EF Luxury lenses. The reason I included that lens is the optics are reported as decent and with the 1.6x of the 40D, the 16 or 17 isn't as wide as I would like. Have been playing with my mates Leica and a 7-14 lens., so the 10 ends up at around 16. The 17-40 I plan to be the only lens I take on hikes and a converter. 24-105 will be on the frame 90% of the time for around home and portrait shots and the like. The sole reason for the 70-200 is for sport.
The zoom with your feet idea is fine, but sometimes sidelines on fields, fast moving vehicles you do not want to get run over by, and cliff faces do not always allow this.
I only plan to use 1 lens at any given time, NOT lug them around.

I value your input and will investigate this further. I just can't afford a 1D. Even this is a stretch to try and get a complete system.

CC

I would say take one of 17-40 or the 10-22, and I would take the 10-22 as it covers much the same range esp with your 24-105.

The 10-22 is a great lens, I've shot a cover with it and many other mag shots. The 70-200 does an excellent portrait by the way. If I was hiking I'd take the 24-105.

Ignore the 1D for the moment. Very big heavy camera and if you aren't experienced with DSLRs it'll take forever to learn it all.

EF-S lenses will be around for quite a while yet, have no concern there.

You may plan to take only one lens at a time, but I predict you'll change those plans. The 10-22 is very light and easy to carry with the 24-105 in a hiking backpack.

You also need to budget for:

- bag(s)
- at least 2 x 8Gb CF cards
- at least one spare battery
- lens care materials
- tripod (decent Manfrotto or similar)

etc

[ciapek]

Gents, I hear you.
Photography being a very personal beast, I knew that when the question of "what kit" ? was going to get thrown around there were going to be several "ideal" kit bags presented.
I have managed to get mine sorted to suit me, but I must admit I have made several lens purchases which looking back, were made redundant, and only so because what I thought I would enjoy shooting at that time, is no longer relevant.
Colman, from personal experience, if you intend to use F4 glass and than stack it with a teleconverter, it will behave in the realms of F6. You will not like the results, you will have to use a strong flash and bump ISO. So in short the Teleconverter will not work in your favour as a focal lens doubler in all the scenarios. Just be aware of this.:D

[Col.Coleman]

The smaller items will take care of themselves once the big $$ items are taken care of. More convenient to pick them up here, as well as bags and filters as the price difference is less.

I do like the grip batteries and don't think they are that much. $180 or so.

Have you seen how much stuff I carry hiking already?:o

CC

[rmp]

The smaller items will take care of themselves once the big $$ items are taken care of. More convenient to pick them up here, as well as bags and filters as the price difference is less.

I do like the grip batteries and don't think they are that much. $180 or so.

Have you seen how much stuff I carry hiking already?:o

CC

The standard battery lasts a long time in a DSLR, longer than a compact. Carry a spare in your pocket and a change takes just a few seconds. I have shot literally all day on photoshoots and not used up a full battery. Don't buy a grip just for extended battery life.

[Col.Coleman]

Gents, I hear you.
Photography being a very personal beast, I knew that when the question of "what kit" ? was going to get thrown around there were going to be several "ideal" kit bags presented.
I have managed to get mine sorted to suit me, but I must admit I have made several lens purchases which looking back, were made redundant, and only so because what I thought I would enjoy shooting at that time, is no longer relevant.
Colman, from personal experience, if you intend to use F4 glass and than stack it with a teleconverter, it will behave in the realms of F6. You will not like the results, you will have to use a strong flash and bump ISO. So in short the Teleconverter will not work in your favour as a focal lens doubler in all the scenarios. Just be aware of this.:D

The teleconverter is intended for full sun sport(soccer) and extra zoom on lookouts and such (conditions willing). I am aware of the f stop reductions with teleconverters.
I feel I can get away with f4 glass on the smaller focal points as I don't expect to try to get action in low light when using these lenses, hence the reason for the 2.8 in the 70-200. Same with the IS. (I know the others are not available like that anyway)
Also on the subject of primes, The EF 14mm 2.8L , have you seen the price?:(

CC

[Col.Coleman]

The standard battery lasts a long time in a DSLR, longer than a compact. Carry a spare in your pocket and a change takes just a few seconds. I have shot literally all day on photoshoots and not used up a full battery. Don't buy a grip just for extended battery life.

No increased speed as well.

CC

[ciapek]

The smaller items will take care of themselves once the big $$ items are taken care of. More convenient to pick them up here, as well as bags and filters as the price difference is less.

I do like the grip batteries and don't think they are that much. $180 or so.

Have you seen how much stuff I carry hiking already?:o

CC

I get 90% of my gear from eBay Hong Kong. Have two suppliers who have been awesome, even went as far as using them outside of eBay privately.

Honestly you will love the battery grip, after using it for a while, the camera feels Unnatural without it. All your shooting controls are mirrored onto the grip and there is no need to twist your arms as you try and compose your shots.

I stopped Hiking and started using the Rover to lug all my gear around....lol....

[ciapek]

The standard battery lasts a long time in a DSLR, longer than a compact. Carry a spare in your pocket and a change takes just a few seconds. I have shot literally all day on photoshoots and not used up a full battery. Don't buy a grip just for extended battery life.

I can not confirm, but I hear that the LiveView function sucks the battery packs dry relatively quickly...:o

[loanrangie]

Gents, I hear you.
Photography being a very personal beast, I knew that when the question of "what kit" ? was going to get thrown around there were going to be several "ideal" kit bags presented.
I have managed to get mine sorted to suit me, but I must admit I have made several lens purchases which looking back, were made redundant, and only so because what I thought I would enjoy shooting at that time, is no longer relevant.
Colman, from personal experience, if you intend to use F4 glass and than stack it with a teleconverter, it will behave in the realms of F6. You will not like the results, you will have to use a strong flash and bump ISO. So in short the Teleconverter will not work in your favour as a focal lens doubler in all the scenarios. Just be aware of this.:D

I sold my converter for that reason, a zoom with an F of 2.8 is out of the budget plus the crop sensor of 1.6X made it redundant, i used it in Africa with 400 iso film in good light and it was near useless even then.

[loanrangie]

I can not confirm, but I hear that the LiveView function sucks the battery packs dry relatively quickly...:o

If its anything like using the lcd of a P&S camera it will suck the life out pretty quick, i think that the liveview sort of defeats the purpose of an SLR anyway .

[loanrangie]

Now my list looks like this.
Out of Digital Rev, with my friends buying Duty Free in HK.

Canon EOS40D bundled with camera bag, gift pack and
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM $2950.41
Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM $ 755.00
Canon 17-40mm f/4L USM $ 802.00
Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM $1169.00
Canon 1.4x Teleconverter $ 422.00

Total $6098

Now to start haggling:D:D:D

CC

Thats one big bill if you arent making money of it, 50D will be available soon too.

[EchiDna]

Now my list looks like this.
Out of Digital Rev, with my friends buying Duty Free in HK.

Canon EOS40D bundled with camera bag, gift pack and
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM $2950.41
Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM $ 755.00
Canon 17-40mm f/4L USM $ 802.00
Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM $1169.00
Canon 1.4x Teleconverter $ 422.00

Total $6098

Now to start haggling:D:D:D

CC

I hope you are talking EF lenses NOT EFS???? if you want to spend that much money, better to buy full frame for the future IMHO. For your reference, the below are prices in Singapore currently in S$. S$1 = A$0.82, all excluding 7% GST (which you can claim back). Also, if you can stretch to it, buy the IS version instead - it's worth about 2 stops.

40D (body only): S$1390
EF 17-40mm f/4L USM : S$920
EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM : S$1399
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM : S$2,290
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM : S$1,620
EF 1.4X II Extender : S$415

if you bought all of that, you would get an extra few batteries, memory cards, decent bag for it all and at least 5% off.

[Offender90]

Hi CC

Here's my two bobs worth:

Camera body

The 40D is a good body, but as EchiDna (and others) pointed out, you may want to consider a full size sensor instead (i.e. the 5D). Both bodies will depreciate rapidly over the next few years, although the 5D is likely to hold its value for longer as new models will be less frequent. It will allow you to invest in full frame sensor glass right away, and the bigger image = bigger pixel size = more light / pixel = less noise/greater sensitivity.

If you have a budget in mind and can't fit the 5D, I'd spend my money on quality glass first, and use what's left over to purchase a body (20D and 30D are dime a dozen and are also great bodies - upgrade to a 5D when the money becomes available). Looked after properly, quality glass will last you a lifetime.

Notes on choice of glass

IS is nice, if you can afford it and if you're going to use it. IS gives you 2 f-stops (or even 3) over non-IS ... but ONLY IF YOU'RE HAND-HOLDING!

On a tripod it is neither desirable nor required! You'd turn IS off on a tripod, as it actually CREATES vibration by amplifying signal noise. So if you're not using IS, its extra weight you don't need to carry and its additional complexity to break down later (:angel: think Isuzu county Vs P38A :wasntme:), never mind the extra $1000 you shelled out for it! :o (Use it instead to upgrade to the 5D)

From what I've read of your post, it doesn't sound like you don't need it.

As for your glass list, do you need / will you use all of them?

Considering the amount of money you're looking at spending, I'd recommend the following kit that gives you full range at the best speed / quality:

Canon EF 16-35 f/2.8L
Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L
Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L (non IS)
Canon EF 1.4 teleconverter (you may want to consder non Canon brands - Kenko do a 1.4 and 2 x teleconverters that are hard to fault at less than 1/2 the price).

The above should set you back approx $5200. If you go with Kenko teleconverters, you should be able to get both a 1.4x and a 2x for the price of Canon's 1.4x. This would give you the entire range you've had in your kit with better glass quality and the same (or better) speed.

The other advantage of the above kit is you'll be able to share filters accross all lenses (all 77mm). Circular polariser is probably first on the list (after 3 x UV filters for glass protection) followed by natural density (ND) filters and/or graduated ND filter. Everything else you can apply in photoshop.

I'd invest the difference into the 5D upgrade.

Lastly, notes on camera shopping in HK, know what price you expect to pay, and go to 10 different stores haggling it down further every time.

As a rough guide, look at what the cheapest equivalents are selling for out of HK on eBay, and expect to pay about 10% less. Only a handful of camera outlets specialise in high end gear (the type you're looking for) know where your shops are before you get there. I went to 7 different shops in 4 hours, with the list of gear I was after, and whatever quote I got at the last place, I took 3-5% off and said this is the XYZ quote, can you beat it, or should I keep going?

The line was OK, I've got 3 hours to get THIS gear (handing them the list) what can you do for me? Oh, you sure?... cos XYZ offered me this much?... Can you beat it? (Dealer:earrrmmm...) Turn around and start walking away (making sure he can ambush you on the way out - helps if you get them to the front of the counter before faking the exit). Worked every time.

[Col.Coleman]

Thanks guys,
this gets more confusing everytime I think about it.

Upon having a smidgen of spare time to think about this today, I came to the conclusion that the glass is the all important thing to look after first.

There are 5 lenses I am REALLY interested in.

EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM
EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM

And the 3 widely used Pro lenses
EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM
EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

I think I will concentrate on the latter 3 first and pick up the first 2 at a later stage. I do desire a full frame camera, but at this stage it looks out of the budget. The actual camera itself is really irrelevent at this stage.

At some stage in the future I am aiming at work which may go some way to paying for this EVENTUALLY, but that is not a given, but still as I think that this is what I am aiming at, and the fact that the lenses should last a hell of a lot longer than the camera, I will go for the best glass.

I am not going to HK, but giving a list to some people who will be there for 4 days who are willing to buy on my behalf. I just need to tell them my list and best price and they will see what they can do. I don't expect them to be trying as hard as I would, but it is still WAY cheaper than here. I'm not overly concerned with the warranty issue either.

I will probably change my mind 6 times in the time this post takes to load anyway:D:D

Thankyou all for your input, it has been very helpfull.


CC

[dmdigital]

I think you'll find you only need the three L lenses. As a forth lens I'd look at a good Macro instead. If you go full frame with Canon's current line up, you're looking at the 5D or the EOS1 mkIII. The 5D is now an old camera (very good still, but old in market terms) and has to be due for replacement soon.

Canon's body line up at present isn't equal to Nikon's and that's somewhat strange as they are the best at getting new product to market. Also its interesting to read a few reviews that compare the EOS 30D/40D/50D to the Nikon D80/D90 and not the D200/D300 like they always used to. This would suggest another Canon model is in the pipe to fill the gap.

In Nikon terms these are my 3 main lenses:
14-24 f/2.8
24-70 f/2.8 (main lens)
70-200 f/2.8 VR

As you can see very similar to your line up. I looked at the 17-35 lens but went to the 14-24 and have no regrets, my next body will be the full frame D700.

Still can't see why you want Canon over Nikon:confused:

[rmp]

I think all this talk of EF-S going away is a distraction.

At some point in the future yes, EF-S may go. But it'll be a long time yet, years and years. Also, even if it went away in the next two years there are a *very* large number of 300, 350, 400, 450, 1000, 20, 30 and 40D bodies (and soon 50D) around so a secondhand market for EF-S lenses is guaranteed for a long time from this point anyway.

The EF-S 10-22 is an excellent lens and the only choice for an EF-S camera if you want a true wide angle.

Col you are correct when you say the lens is the important thing to consider. As I said before, buying a 1000D with quality lenses is better than even a 1D with Canon's low-end rubbish built to a price.

I do not recommend you buy the 5D because you wanted to shoot a lot of sports and the 5D's frame rate is too low for that purpose. It's full-frame, but so what. For the sort of photography you describe that's not worth it. Had you said you intended to focus on landscapes or portrait with the intention of creating big prints that's another matter.

This whole full-frame / partial-frame thing is overblown. Try comparing prints from the two sensors. If the objective is to create quality images an EF-S will do that just fine.

IS is well worth it if you shoot general or sports, as Col says he will. It does not command a big price premium and it is highly reliable. I nor any other photog I know has had a problem with it. Even if it did stop working the lens would continue to function with it.

Offender90's buying technique is excellent and it worked for me in Singapore.

Col is quite correct to not budget in his paying work until the money arrives in his bank account.

[Col.Coleman]

That is excactly why I decided on the 40D. The features of the 40D are more desirable to me RIGHT NOW than the 5D. I know that I will be replacing it at some time, so I think of it as a diposable option. For the sports I will hand held as well as tripod, so the IS is desirable for me.

The 50D is billed as a step up over the 40D and will fill a gap and run along side the 40D for a while, not replace it. The only disadvantage in the smaller sensor I see is it is harder to get big wide angle shots, and you have to be mindfull when framing using the eyepeice. It is not going to effect me just yet.

CC

[EchiDna]

one more thing to consider is that $5-6k of brand new camera gear will not walk through Australian customs without attracting requests for proof of Oz purchase - so I'd expect to pay GST on arrival in Oz for the amount above the tax free threshold (dpends how many friends you have travelling together how much that will be).

If anyone every wants to save time on shopping around in Singapore, drop me a PM and I'll check out the market for you in advance - I've lived here for years and years and know all the local photography haunts....

[dullbird]

one more thing to consider is that $5-6k of brand new camera gear will not walk through Australian customs without attracting requests for proof of Oz purchase - so I'd expect to pay GST on arrival in Oz for the amount above the tax free threshold (dpends how many friends you have travelling together how much that will be).

If anyone every wants to save time on shopping around in Singapore, drop me a PM and I'll check out the market for you in advance - I've lived here for years and years and know all the local photography haunts....

yeh if you could check out the price of a nikon 70-200vr 2.8 i would appreciate it:)......looking to buy before oct so i can take it on my travels

[loanrangie]

Hi CC

Here's my two bobs worth:

Camera body

The 40D is a good body, but as EchiDna (and others) pointed out, you may want to consider a full size sensor instead (i.e. the 5D). Both bodies will depreciate rapidly over the next few years, although the 5D is likely to hold its value for longer as new models will be less frequent. It will allow you to invest in full frame sensor glass right away, and the bigger image = bigger pixel size = more light / pixel = less noise/greater sensitivity.

If you have a budget in mind and can't fit the 5D, I'd spend my money on quality glass first, and use what's left over to purchase a body (20D and 30D are dime a dozen and are also great bodies - upgrade to a 5D when the money becomes available). Looked after properly, quality glass will last you a lifetime.

Notes on choice of glass

IS is nice, if you can afford it and if you're going to use it. IS gives you 2 f-stops (or even 3) over non-IS ... but ONLY IF YOU'RE HAND-HOLDING!

On a tripod it is neither desirable nor required! You'd turn IS off on a tripod, as it actually CREATES vibration by amplifying signal noise. So if you're not using IS, its extra weight you don't need to carry and its additional complexity to break down later (:angel: think Isuzu county Vs P38A :wasntme:), never mind the extra $1000 you shelled out for it! :o (Use it instead to upgrade to the 5D)

From what I've read of your post, it doesn't sound like you don't need it.

As for your glass list, do you need / will you use all of them?

Considering the amount of money you're looking at spending, I'd recommend the following kit that gives you full range at the best speed / quality:

Canon EF 16-35 f/2.8L
Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8L
Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L (non IS)
Canon EF 1.4 teleconverter (you may want to consder non Canon brands - Kenko do a 1.4 and 2 x teleconverters that are hard to fault at less than 1/2 the price).

The above should set you back approx $5200. If you go with Kenko teleconverters, you should be able to get both a 1.4x and a 2x for the price of Canon's 1.4x. This would give you the entire range you've had in your kit with better glass quality and the same (or better) speed.

The other advantage of the above kit is you'll be able to share filters accross all lenses (all 77mm). Circular polariser is probably first on the list (after 3 x UV filters for glass protection) followed by natural density (ND) filters and/or graduated ND filter. Everything else you can apply in photoshop.

I'd invest the difference into the 5D upgrade.

Lastly, notes on camera shopping in HK, know what price you expect to pay, and go to 10 different stores haggling it down further every time.

As a rough guide, look at what the cheapest equivalents are selling for out of HK on eBay, and expect to pay about 10% less. Only a handful of camera outlets specialise in high end gear (the type you're looking for) know where your shops are before you get there. I went to 7 different shops in 4 hours, with the list of gear I was after, and whatever quote I got at the last place, I took 3-5% off and said this is the XYZ quote, can you beat it, or should I keep going?

The line was OK, I've got 3 hours to get THIS gear (handing them the list) what can you do for me? Oh, you sure?... cos XYZ offered me this much?... Can you beat it? (Dealer:earrrmmm...) Turn around and start walking away (making sure he can ambush you on the way out - helps if you get them to the front of the counter before faking the exit). Worked every time.

I recently bought a 30D off a mate that was upgrading to a 5D, i had planned on a 450D but really didnt like the plasticy feel and a 5D to me is overkill if it isnt making money for me. I already had 2 EF lenses 24-85 USM and 100-300 USM from my EOS10 but then added a 50 1.8 and a Sigma 17-70. These will do me for a while or untill FF bodies are more common 2nd hand (and cheaper ) or maybe upgrade to some L glass first..

[rmp]

If its anything like using the lcd of a P&S camera it will suck the life out pretty quick, i think that the liveview sort of defeats the purpose of an SLR anyway .

It does. I have LiveView on my 40D. Waste of time, never used it, too many limitations.

[EchiDna]

yeh if you could check out the price of a nikon 70-200vr 2.8 i would appreciate it:)......looking to buy before oct so i can take it on my travels

is this the one?
AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED ??

if so, it's approx. S$2500 or about A$2000 give or take $100 - if paying cash, you could get it a bit cheaper, but not much and it has only dropped in price by about $300 since introduction in 2006.

[dmdigital]

That's the one dullbird's talking about. That's about as good a price as any. Very hard to get it under AU$2000. Great lens though:D

[Offender90]

That is excactly why I decided on the 40D. The features of the 40D are more desirable to me RIGHT NOW than the 5D. I know that I will be replacing it at some time, so I think of it as a diposable option. For the sports I will hand held as well as tripod, so the IS is desirable for me.

The 50D is billed as a step up over the 40D and will fill a gap and run along side the 40D for a while, not replace it. The only disadvantage in the smaller sensor I see is it is harder to get big wide angle shots, and you have to be mindfull when framing using the eyepeice. It is not going to effect me just yet.

CC


I'm glad to hear you've thought it through, and i suppose that's what this discussion is all about. If you do go the 40D, the 10-22mm is a necessary evil for wide angle shots due to the 1.6 x smaller sensor multiplier. I've got one as well for my 20D, (which I'll be looking to retire in the not too distant future), and it works great. And if taking sports shots (kids at soccer / footy or similar), the IS will be good, but the real question is, will it be worth the extra $1k (or whatever the difference is these days)

Some more food for thought...

The rule for handholding non-IS glass is the shutter speed should be faster than the reciprocal of the zoom length. I.e. if you're shooting at 200mm, your shutter speed should be at least 1/200 seconds. Keep in mind that's for a full frame sensor. On a 40D, a 200mm zoom becomes 1.6 x 200 = 320mm, so the minimum shutter required would be 1/320 seconds.

The IS would give you 2-3 f-stops on that, so instead of 1/320 sec, your minimum would be 1/80 seconds (2 stops), or even 1/40 (3 stops). At such long shutter speeds tho, you've got to worry about motion blur for sports photography.

Where the IS really shines (IMHO) is low light & indoor photography where longer lenses are required and flashes are either out of reach, or not desirable (disturbing the subject for example). For me, and the type of use my 70-200 gets, it's just not worth it.

Don't anyone get me wrong, the IS is desirable for me as well, but I can't justify spending an extra grand, at least not until I've upgraded to the 5D!:D

But each to their own, and, as I said above, you've thought it through and if you decide that the IS function is worth the money, great, so long as you're doing it for the right reasons.

If it were me however :angel:, and 5D was not an option, I'd seriously consider a macro lens, or at least a set of extension tubes. The abundance of macro subjects is unbelievable!!! Grains of sand on a beach, texture of a leaf against sunlight, bugs, flowers, bugs on flowers, the list goes on and on... :cool:

[Offender90]

one more thing to consider is that $5-6k of brand new camera gear will not walk through Australian customs without attracting requests for proof of Oz purchase - so I'd expect to pay GST on arrival in Oz for the amount above the tax free threshold (dpends how many friends you have travelling together how much that will be).

If anyone every wants to save time on shopping around in Singapore, drop me a PM and I'll check out the market for you in advance - I've lived here for years and years and know all the local photography haunts....

Very good point,

when coming back, I've mixed up my new gear in with the old gear (in a camera backpack which has obviously seen some use).

Now I'm a bit of stickler for packaging, so instead of chucking them out, I folded flat and concealed the boxes into the bottom of my bag, with the styro in my pockets :D

Didn't get a second look from customs, (and I didn't have any receipts for my other gear), but I suppose the gear bag looked well used, so they didn't bother.

[dullbird]

Very good point,

when coming back, I've mixed up my new gear in with the old gear (in a camera backpack which has obviously seen some use).

Now I'm a bit of stickler for packaging, so instead of chucking them out, I
folded flat and concealed the boxes into the bottom of my bag, with the styro in my pockets :D
Didn't get a second look from customs, (and I didn't have any receipts for my other gear), but I suppose the gear bag looked well used, so they didn't bother.

you were lucky you never got pulled over for a concealment.......looks bad on you if it looks like you have delibratly tried to hide something even if it is boxes:D

[Offender90]

concealed - well, put under the backpack lining to keep them straight, I should say, but in principle, I agree I was lucky none of it got a second look.

[Col.Coleman]

WELL,

after the events over the last week buying cars, I had given up on a new camera............BBBUUUUTTTTT.........


Got a phone call from Hong Kong tonight.

EOS 40D
EF 24-105mm 4L IS USM
4g card
bag
and maybe some other stuff

just over $900au:):)

SOLD

A good start for the dollars I have left. Expand the other lenses on their next trip.

CC

[EchiDna]

sure that aint for the 400D? it's VERY cheap...
even the bare body for the 40D is about A$1100 here.

and the lens is about the same price... umm... something doesn't sound quite right there mate :(

card and bag are free gifts, so nothing special to get them thrown in.

[Col.Coleman]

I hope not.

But the guys doing the deal are some real movers and shakers, so I wouldn't be surprised what deals they can get.

Time will tell

CC


PS. Even if it is, it's still WWWAAAYY better than my mobile phone, which is all I have to use at the moment:D:D

[EchiDna]

there are actually also 3 current canon lenses with the 28-105 zoom range, with the cheapest about A$250, the most expensive about A$1100, with the 24-105 another 25-30% more expensive...

regarding your friends ability to haggle, I'm thinking it might have fallen off the back of a truck at that price as it's way below distributor wholesale pricing.

anyway, I don't want to sound like a broken record, just don't want you to get something other than what you think is on the way...

[dullbird]

so when are you expecting it to arrive ?

[Col.Coleman]

Mate I completely understand your scepticism. I am excactly the same. I have double checked with my source on accurate descriptions of the goods. Definately a 40D. They are listed as discontinued in HK as they have the 50D out already there.
Also told them to make sure the lense has the red ring around the end as well as double check the details. They are not just tourist shopping. We have a container sitting over the border in China to bring back.

If they bring it back themselves I will have it Saturday. If it goes in the container, it will be a few weeks.

CC

[feraldisco]

the current Choice mag test of 83 digital cameras up to $2300 makes interesting reading...and I'm happy to have purchased a Pentax K200D which did surprisingly well and was even rated higher than the much more expensive K20D. Of course with DSLRs, lenses obviously make a difference to the result as well...

[dmdigital]

the current Choice mag test of 83 digital cameras up to $2300 makes interesting reading...

I would have said hilarious reading. Browsed through it the other day. Some things Choice really have difficulty reporting on.

[EchiDna]

Mate I completely understand your scepticism. I am excactly the same. I have double checked with my source on accurate descriptions of the goods. Definately a 40D. They are listed as discontinued in HK as they have the 50D out already there.
Also told them to make sure the lense has the red ring around the end as well as double check the details. They are not just tourist shopping. We have a container sitting over the border in China to bring back.

If they bring it back themselves I will have it Saturday. If it goes in the container, it will be a few weeks.

CC

:BigThumb: sounds good, and yeah the 40D is superceded pretty much anywhere (it is here too).

[feraldisco]

I would have said hilarious reading. Browsed through it the other day. Some things Choice really have difficulty reporting on.

please explain...

[Col.Coleman]

Well my run of good fortune had to end sooner or later.

My little order was tacked on the end of a MUCH larger consignment, and it seems the company involved were unable to deliver the bulk goods in the allocated time frame, so POOF, just like that the fun is over.

Ah the joys of international business.

On the bright side, I now know excactly what I want to purchase and what is possible, so I will be working on that once I save me some money again, if these ruddy cars don't eat it all up first.

Thanks all for your input it has been very helpfull.

Was looking forward to taking some shots on the weekend, but oh well:(

CC

[rmp]

Sorry to hear that.

I ordered a new body from a parallel importer on Sunday night. Arrived Tuesday. First shoot this Sunday.

:-)

[JohnR]

I know I am a little late on this thread but go the Nikon D90 with the 18-200 lens. Awsome :eek:

I ordered mine last Friday and got it on Monday and have been having fun all week with it. Wow this new serries of DSLR's coming out have made a huge leap.

I have just gone from a none to shabby D70 with 18-70 lens to this new unit and the difference is staggering. I should have a few pics to post shortly.

Cheers,

[Trakker]

Pls ignore!

[greg-g]

This forum has been almost all Canon, but I’m a Nikon fan as well
I have a Nikon D60 with the Nikkor 18 – 200 VR lens, its excellent, but I’d like to trade up to the new Nikon D90 and keep the 18 – 200 lens.
I started with the 18- 55, and 55 – 200 VR lenses, but always found I had the wrong lens, and didn’t like carrying both.
Sometime I may get a 50 mm f1.4 for low light, and a macro (micro in Nikon terms), but in the mean time the 18 – 200 VR will do almost everything without a bag full of glass.
I've now got the entire family back into photography.
The website of Ken Rockwall is well worth looking at for information and informative comment on Canon and Nikon DSLR's
http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm


Greg

[dullbird]

This forum has been almost all Canon, but I’m a Nikon fan as well
I have a Nikon D60 with the Nikkor 18 – 200 VR lens, its excellent, but I’d like to trade up to the new Nikon D90 and keep the 18 – 200 lens.
I started with the 18- 55, and 55 – 200 VR lenses, but always found I had the wrong lens, and didn’t like carrying both.
Sometime I may get a 50 mm f1.4 for low light, and a macro (micro in Nikon terms), but in the mean time the 18 – 200 VR will do almost everything without a bag full of glass.
I've now got the entire family back into photography.
The website of Ken Rockwall is well worth looking at for information and informative comment on Canon and Nikon DSLR's
KenRockwell.com (http://www.kenrockwell.com/index.htm)


Greg

hey greg, if you look at the poll in this section you will see there is just as many nikons as canons here;)
this is coming from a nikon owner:D

[p38arover]

hey greg, if you look at the poll in this section you will see there is just as many nikons as canons here;)
this is coming from a nikon owner:D


Which poll?

I've just bought my first DSLR. However, as I already owned two Pentax AF SLRs (SFx and SF7) with two Pentax Takumar zoom lenses a 28-90 and a 70-135, plus a fairly powerful hot-shoe Pentax AF400FTZ swivel head flash, and, being cheap, I bought a second-hand *ist D with a Pentax 28-90 AF zoom for $280.

Unfortunately, the 1.6 factor makes the lenses a bit long for everyday use. They interface very nicely to the *ist D.

The lens that came with the *ist D is a 28-90. The *ist D has a pentaprism viewfinder, not a pentamirror and seems quite bright.

I might get an M42-K mount adaptor to try with my old Takumar lenses from my Spotmatic.

While the *ist D is supposed to be TTL compatible with the AF40FTZ flash, it really doesn't seem to work that well with it. On auto mode the flash over-exposes quite badly indoors. I have yet to play with it to learn how to best use it.

[dullbird]

this one ron ;)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/camera-corner/59856-so-what-you-got.html