Td5 Towing

[Nifty]

Gents
Towing a 2 tonne caravan with a Td5 Disco 2 automatic:

Do you tow in 3rd gear or drive (4th) and what speed is economical

Regards Nifty

[BMKal]

Can't answer for the auto as mine's a manual.

But I find around 95 - 100 km/h is about the best economy when towing, and I only use 5th gear at above about 90 km/h and only when on flat country or a downhill run, and not pushing into a strong wind. At other times, I tend to leave it in 4th.

I guess similar would apply to 3rd and 4th in an auto.

Having said all that, the country's pretty flat around where I live.

[mousie]

Well Nifty, I'm about to find out too with a 1.4T loaded swan outback, and I suspect I am a tad smaller in wind and weight so if it don't generally keep fourth on the auto then I will not be happy at all. Problem is mucking around without the van of choice is a matter of try and see and of course advice on these forums, Geoff

[justinc]

With something as heavy as a 2 ton caravan, Always tow in 3rd, as it has lockup in that gear in the D2. This will avoid hunting between 4th and 4th lockup, and less slippage therefore less heat buildup. Lighter trailers etc that can be easily towed at 90 to 100km/h, 4th should be fine as long as it is fast enough to allow converter lockup, for the above reasons. The V8 D2 has different trans software etc, and will lockup at lower speeds etc depending on engine loads too.

JC

[Tombie]

Also, select "Sports" mode... It allows the transmission to be more responsive to the loads imposed instead of labouring...

[tempestv8]

I've towed a 1.1 tonne camper trailer on the highway but because the vehicle had 32" tyres, it was quite disadvantaged by the taller "gearing" factor due to the non standard sized tyres.

So I found that it was happiest in 3rd. Fortunately the ZF gearbox locks up the torque converter in 3rd so the fluid temperature does not heat up.

The Disco revved higher but it felt happier.

If you have stock 29" tyres, it may be better to tow in "D" if you get up to 110 km/hr. But when it gets hilly, shift into 3rd.

[StephenF10]

I tow a 1.5t van in 3rd at 85-90km/hr. It's more relaxing than towing in 4th as I don't have to watch for each slight uphill gradient to manually change down.

I tried 4th sports mode but found that the trans tended to stay too long in slip mode and not lock up.

Stephen.
2001 TD5 auto D2

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Whatever you decide,, get the auto serviced and check the cooler and lines for leaks/cracks or air blockages,
synthetic ATF will handle the heat better but is $$$$:eek:

and if you tow regularly
service the auto regularly:cool:

[dmdigital]

Would have loved to be able to answer this but sadly (or is that happily:confused:) my Td5 was traded for a new 08 Defender before I learnt what it was like towing.

Anyway I did talk to a Auto Td5 D2 owner in Katherine who was travelling quiet happily for the umpteenth time with a 2.2t van behind it all the way from Brisbane.

[Taz]

For info,
Overlander magazine did a towing test using 6 fourbies a few years ago including a Td5 auto D2. The van they used was a 2000kg trakmaster (full height). The test was 200km of urban, secondary roads and freeways, including a couple of hills. The Td5 had the best ecomony of the 6 at 21.1lt/100km.
They actually tested the V8 D2 as well, and that recorded 25.2lt/100km.

[BradM]

I have mucked around and tries a few things when towing my 2,500kg loaded van. 21.5 Foot Lotus Sprint on 3 tonne simplicity off road syspension, 6 " chassis, 15" wheels & list goes on.

After a lot of stuffing around, I now just let it go in "D" sit on 100klms hour on the open road (speed limit in WA when towing) and give it a hand down to 3rd when it looks like it may struggle. Tend to leave it in 3rd only when a bad headwind is blowing.

No auto problems with 92,000 klms on the clock. Both TD5 engine mounts have been changed out as they had dropped to the bottom of the mount (probably from Toomie's power upgrade and mod advice giving heaps of extra torque) but apart from that no other towing induced problems.

I continually sit back in the drivers seat and watch it amaze me.

BradM

[ozscott]

Do TD5s tow 2 tonn???:) (just kidding fellas before you get up me).

Taz - thats pretty good economy for the V8. V8s like towing. I have never tested my economy with my D2 manual towing my 2 tonn 21 foot Seafarer Vagabond but its not too shabby. I use LPG towing so its pretty cheap. With LPG you just have to make sure you dont floor it when you can hold a lesser throttle position with no loss of acceleration ...Lpg is interesting like that, because its vac' based and a vapour if you hold the throttle open it will suck down and burn far more than is needed.

Cheers

[sfako]

Nifty
I have just returned home after towing 2.7t to WA and back from Townsville.Overall ks 23300. That includes bobtail.
The over all ltrs/100 was 16.1
When towing we get between 17 and 18.5 l/100 at 90 to 100 ks p/h.
Towing theary of mine........
Std td5 put in sports mode.
select 3erd and take up to towing speed say 95ks
selest drive and ingauge cruise.
let the computer do the work.
It at first drives you mad the changing down and reving but i have proved that it is the most eco way to tow.

When i was in Adelaide i went to Triamph Rover at Lonsdale and they remapped the computer for me and the diferance is unbelievable.Overtaking is now no probs and it pulls realy well.
I also found that i had to not use sport mode as the trans would not lockup untill i was doing 95k/ph.
Now i am towing in cruise in drive at 100k/ph 2250 rpm and returning 17.8 l/100.
It will be interesting to see the l/100 while not towing now the computer has been remapped.
For your interest i tow a 25.7 ft Jayco ATM 2750kgs

If i can help you any more contact me
Seeya Steve

[Stuart250S]

Dear All,
My query is, how does the group find engine braking when towing?
She Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO) has just acquired the new horse float, tare weight 1 500 kg. For those who may be unaware, towing horses is very different to 'vans, boats, etc - you are dealing with a very live load that doesn't appreciate sudden changes of direction, hence the need for very smooth driving. I find that with a load on (>2 Tonnes) the TD5 tows brilliantly, except when going downhill, at less than 70K. Then the trans lets the engine go to idle and there is no real engine braking unless I select second ratio. Otherwise I am on the service brakes constantly. Is this normal, or has my trans ECU gone for an extended holiday?

Oh, by the way, bringing the new float from Melbourne to Adelaide, sitting on 90k (peak torque) returned 16 litres/100km. Brilliant!

Cheers

[akelly]

Hey All,

We've towed our 2t (just over) boat from Sydney to Darwin and back via Mackay - no dramas. Just plonked it into D, engaged Sport mode and cruised - even used the cruise control once on the open road. Sat on 100kmh, not really safe going faster than that with 2t on behind!

Got 15 l/100km when towing. Normally get between 10 and 11.

Engine braking not so good, but using the S mode helps I think - seems to drop back a lot faster on the over-run.

Oh yeah - its a 2000 Td5.

Cheers,

Adam

[discodrover]

Hello All,
We purchased our 03 TD5 auto disco for economical towing. Tandem trailer load 2.0 t to keel yacht at 3.3 t. Vehicle is stock except for flash tune and air bags under rear springs.
Find the best way to get moving with the big load is to start of in low range, then up to high range once rolling (as per vehicle manual recommendations).I always use sport mode with the yacht tow and cruise control on good highways. However many of the secondary roads here in Tassie are not suitable for cruise control use. In some sections with long downhill steep and windey passes, I use low range 2nd or 3rd to get some engine braking, although the electric over hydraulic braking system works well, you can get some fade with the big hills.
I have found with the heavy tows it is critical to have the rig set up right ie appropriate tow ball weight, levelling, right tyre pressures and good braking systems. The air bags under rear springs work well to assist with levelling and minimising yaw and pitching on uneven road surfaces.
I am constantly surprised how well this 2.5l turbo can haul. The disco is really in its element doing this kind of work.

Cheers
JB

[MarknDeb]

Gday Nifty, we tow a 2.5T van with the Td5 and i always tow in D, when we come to hills i push in the sports button and travel at the posted speed limit, i find the car responds better at 100 to 105 when we come to hills than at 90. I have tried the slower speeds to see if fuel is any different and found about the same so i do the speed limit. I have put below the fuel usage on the Winton trip back in June/July.
hope this is of some help

Winton trip (2008)DateTypeOdometerVendorDescriptionFuel Qty.Fuel PriceAmountNotes28-Jun-08Fuel79,752Shell Coles43.84 ltr @ $1.77 (Shell Coles)43.84$1.77$77.55towing29-Jun-08Fuel80,097BP59.08 ltr @ $1.88 (BP)59.08$1.88$110.78BP Tower House, Mitchell29-Jun-08Fuel80,581Caltex71.10 ltr @ $1.90 (Caltex)71.10$1.90$135.00Barcaldine Homestead Caravan Park (Caltex), bad head winds)3-Jul-08Fuel80,895BP56.80 ltr @ $1.87 (BP)56.80$1.87$106.16BP Winton road house, towing4-Jul-08Fuel81,228BP46.02 ltr @ $1.87 (BP)46.02$1.87$86.01BP Winton road house, No towing but a lot of dirt5-Jul-08Fuel81,502Caltex71.09 ltr @ $1.90 (Caltex)71.09$1.90$135.00Barcaldine Homestead Caravan Park (Caltex) towing9-Jul-08Fuel82,030Caltex71.02 ltr @ $1.93 (Caltex)71.02$1.93$137.00Ausfuel, Caltex Morven. Towing9-Jul-08Fuel82,376Caltex67.25 ltr @ $1.83 (Caltex)67.25$1.83$123.00Country Petroleum, Caltex Chinchilla. Towing11-Jul-08Fuel82,645Shell Coles46.69 ltr @ $1.80 (Shell Coles)46.69$1.80$84.00Coles Express Highfields, towing & non towing

[MarknDeb]

Sorry the fuel copy and paste didnt go to well there so i have attatched an excel file

[John W]

Hi Niffty

We have pulled 1.5t van all around the country D2 Td5 auto SLS. Only time I use 3rd is into a stiff head wind or if the auto is doing the 3-4-3-4 searching thing and not locking up in 4th. Mostly will sit on the speed limit up to 110 no problem. In our around Australia trip including heaps of dirt the consumption was 14 litres/ 100 km. Will be worse with the extra weight you have but if you are on the flat then your weight is not the issue rather the wind resistance. I find that using sport is not that helpful as it delays getting into lock up. When taking off you have to use a lot more right foot and it seems my car computer is programmed to hold the gear longer with a boot full of accelerator so does much the same thing anyway.

I can only think of one time when I had to leave it in 3rd for most of the trip and that was into a head wind going south from Broom to Perth. Interesting that as I recall it did not add much to consumption, from memory no worse than 15 l/100km. I sat it on 85-90.

[sfako]

I have towed a 2.7 t VanJayco 25/7 from Townsville to Perth and Return.23000ks in all over 7 months this year. With a standed TD5 setup the towing was by far the best in sport mode,drive,cruse @95/100 kph.Yes there is alot of hunting through the trans but the fuel eco is the best this way by 1.2ltrs/100.
I now have the computer remapped WOW (TR Spares Adle on the way home) But a new learning curve. Travel in drive ,cruse @95/100kph dont use sport mode as the reverse now happens and the fuel usage is up. Another way of saying it is by putting it in sport mode its like putting it in double sport mode.The towing performance with a remap is just incredible epecialy when overtaking and climbing hills
Seeya Steve

[flotty1974]

Sorry for the late post but only just got back on here. To assist with Stuart250S question, I have my 01 TD5 Auto chipped and it seems to engine brake a little better. The revs still drop away and but this is easy fixed by dropping the stick back to 3rd. My wifes horses travel fine with the disco but it does get warm travelling up the freeway to crafers. Just one mod towing people may consider is a Rangie HSE trans cooler. Apparently they are a lot bigger but it is a bitch of a job. This is my next mod before the CDL stick. May be a consideration just to protect the Trans from cooking. I've been quoted over $1000 for the conversion, but worth it I think. :D

[jmkoffice]

Absolutely impressed with my TD5 (factory map) whilst towing a 1640 kg (Tare) pop-top caravan. ACT to Brisvegas via Newell Hwy, sitting on speed limit, set cruise control to 100kmh in Drive and all I had to do was keep the vehicle and van on the road. Basically set and forget. The cruise knows what gear to use and how hard to push the engine to maintain a set speed. During a head wind the cruise dropped the gear to 3rd and ploughed on. 1250 km - averaged 16L/100km during a 33 degree Celsius day.

Effortless!!!!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

maybe think of running a synthetic trans fluid?
They handle the heat much better.
regardless, if you tow lots, change the fluid lots.



anyone got a side by side pic of the two trans coolers?
I'd be interested to see just how much bigger the RR is.

[Matt_Rides]

So we bought a 2800kg (3400kg ATM) tare caravan and will be using the D2 to tow it until we get something newer before next tax time. Just had a Drivetech trans oil cooler fiited behind the front bar to compliment the stock cooler.



This thread been very good to learn how to drive the car when pulling a decent load. Next will be an EGT gauge. Just tossing up if I go with EGR delete or without.
173539

[shack]

With an EGR delete you will save caking up the intake manifold and map sensor, and theoretically get slightly worse economy.

However when you see the muck they put back through the motor... It will make you lean towards delete.

Cheers
James

[onebob]

So we bought a 2800kg (3400kg ATM) tare caravan and will be using the D2 to tow it until we get something newer before next tax time. Just had a Drivetech trans oil cooler fiited behind the front bar to compliment the stock cooler.



This thread been very good to learn how to drive the car when pulling a decent load. Next will be an EGT gauge. Just tossing up if I go with EGR delete or without.
173539

There are a few to choose from in the range - what was your choice?

[Matt_Rides]

There are a few to choose from in the range - what was your choice?

The guys at Fluidrive Automatics did it all for me. From memory its the 280x200mm 72 plate oil cooler.

[PhilipA]

The cruise knows what gear to use and how hard to push the engine to maintain a set speed. During a head wind the cruise dropped the gear to 3rd and ploughed on. 1250 km - averaged 16L/100km during a 33 degree Celsius day.
The cruise is Like Sergeant Schultz . It knows Nothing!
All it does it add throttle to make a frequency of pulses meet the desired frequency which is set by pressing the button. The TD5 cruise is particularly brutal and I rarely use it while towing except in dead flat country.

In a D2 towing it would be flat out with cruise engaged on hills and into headwind, as evidenced by kickdown.

In these circumstances I believe your EGTs would be extreme and often over 700C, particularly if you have stock boost.

I guess The Newell to Brisbane is probably the flattest terrain you will likely encounter except for the downhill from Toowoomba. The M1 is much hillier and I would advise against using cruise control there as they have a habit of slowing down a hill the going WOT at the beginning of the next.

I would advise getting an EGT gauge and driving by that . By using that you can control speed on hills without being flat out . It is surprising that even half throttle will allow a steady slow decline in speed without excessive EGTs.

I guess I am a bit OCD but to tow 1800Kg I would and have replaced transmission fluid with Castrol Transmax Z full synthetic, big intercooler etc. I also have a revised map for extra power But I am pretty certain that you would be over with a stock map, hence the warped exhaust manifold problem that is so common and maybe head gasket problems. Mine had a warped manifold when I bought it with a stock map.

I can easily maintain 100Kmh with low EGTs on the flat ( maybe 400C at 100kmh) but as soon as a hill is encountered towing my 1382KG Tare , probably 1700Kg gtm pop top The EGTs soar and have to be controlled by the accelerator and maybe gears to 700C or less.
I haven't had much experience with the new/old van yet in addition to driving from Yarrawonga to Tumut to Avoca beach but I had to watch the EGTs on the hills , but with my mods I could pass the trucks on the Hume easily uphill . I think it will be a lot slower up hill than maintaining 100-110Kmh with my 1000Kg Camper trailer.
Boy the pull out of Adelong to Tumut is a beauty also . I think it was 2nd gear at about 3000RPM and 650-700C.
Regards PhilipA
PS the man towing a 3400Kg van with a TD5 rates my admiration for his patience .

[shack]

The cruise control maps on a TD5 are not quite as dumb as you say, but they really only replicate driver demand required vs target speed compared to current.

On the later TD5 there is a map to limit fuelling based on estimated EGT, but if the vehicle has been remapped with a dirty injector duration mod, this map is redundant and unable to come up with valid data for estimates.

I've written my own we EGT estimates formula and believe I have it pretty close, but it is also unreliable on tunes that have hacked duration maps.


Short story, if you have a remapped TD5 and tow, fit an EGT immediately.

Cheers
James

[V8Ian]

Mine is stock as a rock and the CC is very ordinary, +/- 6kph, it goes uphill quicker than down. Once it drops to 6kph below set speed it accelerates, full throttle, including dropping a gear, to 6kph above the set speed.
My Fairlane of similar vintage has far superior electronics and smoothly maintains the set speed.

[PhilipA]

Mine is stock as a rock and the CC is very ordinary, +/- 6kph, it goes uphill quicker than down. Once it drops to 6kph below set speed it accelerates, full throttle, including dropping a gear, to 6kph above the set speed.
My Fairlane of similar vintage has far superior electronics and smoothly maintains the set speed.

Yes I find it incredibly annoying and is most obvious when you have a downhill immediately followed by an uphill like on much of the M1. It is worse when towing because it then immediately goes to WOT which then increases EGTs in an eyeblink followed by an unlock then change down in some circumstances.
I have found it much better to let it run downhill then gently increase throttle to 650-700C on the EGT gauge. This will usually cause a gradual drop in speed with time to change down to 3 in time to establish lock.
Regards PhilipA

[shack]

Mine is stock as a rock and the CC is very ordinary, +/- 6kph, it goes uphill quicker than down. Once it drops to 6kph below set speed it accelerates, full throttle, including dropping a gear, to 6kph above the set speed.
My Fairlane of similar vintage has far superior electronics and smoothly maintains the set speed.What year is your D2?

[V8Ian]

What year is your D2?
2004, sold after D3 was released.

[shack]

2004, sold after D3 was released.The cruise control generally speaking was better on the EU3 than the early ones, particularly the MSB ECU ones.

I'm a bit surprised yours is that bad, although I do know of a very late model manual that's pretty ordinary according to the owner, but i haven't tested it.

[V8Ian]

I just assumed it was crude electronics. My Ford accelerates smoothly and economically, after hitting resume. The love child of the D2 and Fairlane would make an awesome vehicle.

[Slunnie]

I don't know what it is, but when I had Bruce Davis' hot ECU upgrade, the CC was just awesome. When I went back to a more mild tune I got the **** CC that surges back again.

[PhilipA]

The no "nudge down" is also bloody annoying.
Why couldn't LR make a cruise like every other cruise control including aftermarket ones?
Regards PhilipA

[shack]

The no "nudge down" is also bloody annoying.
Why couldn't LR make a cruise like every other cruise control including aftermarket ones?
Regards PhilipAAll my car's have had mapping changed, so the cruise works pretty good, but yes... The lack of decel button is a downfall, I guess it can be overcome by just setting it under the required speed, then hit Accel.

[RANDLOVER]

I just assumed it was crude electronics. My Ford accelerates smoothly and economically, after hitting resume. The love child of the D2 and Fairlane would make an awesome vehicle.

I also found the D2 CC pretty rough, a sort of see-sawing experience, I only tried it once or twice and gave up using it. The love child of a D2 and Fairlane would make it a D3 4L V6 petrol I think.

[Bradtot]

My Tow 173849173850

[Matt_Rides]

My Tow 173849173850

Nice set up!

173853

Thats our house on wheels.