The D2 Lowdown

[ghoti]

Following a write off of my 2007 TDV6 I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

With a change in employment on the horizon I'm not yet ready to commit to
another D3 just yet, so was considering a D2 but am concerned about the
tales of unreliability (don't shoot me!!)

So, what's the real story with D2's? Is there a better year than others? Is
the Diesel better than the Petrol V8? What do you look out for?

The primary use will be transporting the wife & 3 teenagers around during
the week and towing a 2 tonne boat on weekends. Generally do 30-40,000Km
per annum.

Certainly would appreciate advice from those in the know.

[Narangga]

Most of it has been covered in previous threads so a good search will bring them up.

[ladas]

I have had my D2 now for over 3 years, no major issues, never let me down, normal service items - plus the ABS shuttle valve.

Doesn't leak over and above any other vehicle, comfortable

I have used mine mainly on tarmac - but occasionally on semi difficult tracks/water crossings/towing

Mines a D2 V8, - I dont like the smell of diesel :D

[Kandy]

I checked all this out years ago--- look at 2003 on, the upgraded front end with a modern light fittings etc.-- supposed to be over 200 mods! --- none Landrover owners sometimes mistake them for a RR! -- towing, go for the diesel Td5, though petrol is cheaper at the pump, towing will knock that saving right out and diesel is better for resale. Had mine over 2 yrs, no probs, love it!!!:D I purposely brought privately from another Landrove nut so was immaculate and professionally serviced.

[ozscott]

Mate the D2 is a nice ride. I have a D1 and an 02 D2. My best mate has an 03 D2. Frankly his D2 has suffered more problems than mine but both have been very good trucks overall..but I dont know where the 200 changes went (I know what most of them are having read about it in LRO Mag when it came out but mostly it was small stuff and a marketing ploy).

Cheers

[4X4V8]

I've had 2 D2 V8s, both 1999, so early ones. The first was not so good, but I think it had been abused and had a patchy service record.

My present D2 is proving to be remarkably trouble free (for a LR, that is). I have had a cracked exhaust manifold that cost $300 to replace it and the three amigos come up now and then, but that's it in terms of unscheduled items. Oh, I also had the radiator 'acid bathed' to clean it and top radiator hoses replaced as they were starting to baloon under pressure - the early warning that overheating may occur.

Otherwise a very endearing truck, very comfortable etc.

Look for a car with a good service history if you want to have half a chance of trouble free motoring though.

The Td5 vs V8 debate you will see in other threads. Both have their problems, well documented.


I think it comes down to personal preference but then if you are doing 30,000km a year, fuel costs for the V8 will be high unless you put it on LPG. LPG is worth looking into, with an alloy gas tank and liquid gas injection it should be a good thing. If remote travel is on the agenda, a Td5 will be a much more simple proposition as it offers better range, economy and fuel availability.

[scarry]

hi, i have had 3,all auto td5's,bought new.the 99 one was a dud,02 one not to bad.The 04 one i still have was the best by far,so good i have hung onto it.It has done more hard 4wd than the other two put together,and has been fine.

as said there were a lot of small differences in the upgraded model 03&04,such as dash changes,etc.main changes were much better headlights,cdl now installed & torque increase for the auto models.

the diesel is slower& noisier,but cheaper to run,particularly if towing.The petrols are quicker,quieter,but you pay for it at the pump.

when buying,check the usual things,service records etc etc.Also you should have it checked by a lr specialist,not a dealer,before purchase.

good luck

[Bundalene]

There is a range between mid 2000 and mid 2002 which do not have the the ability to lock the center diff without replacing / upgrading the transfer box. Erich.

[Redback]

Following a write off of my 2007 TDV6 I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

With a change in employment on the horizon I'm not yet ready to commit to
another D3 just yet, so was considering a D2 but am concerned about the
tales of unreliability (don't shoot me!!)

So, what's the real story with D2's? Is there a better year than others? Is
the Diesel better than the Petrol V8? What do you look out for?

The primary use will be transporting the wife & 3 teenagers around during
the week and towing a 2 tonne boat on weekends. Generally do 30-40,000Km
per annum.

Certainly would appreciate advice from those in the know.

Mate they are a tough unit, trust me i know, i'm pretty hard on my D2 and to it's credit it's never actually stopped due to me being hard on it, most of the issues i've had have been due to me breaking things.

Go for the later TD5 03/04 D2a if your towing, the V8 doesn't have the torque for towing and the fuel will kill you, also it's supprising how quick the TD5 is and there ain't much difference in off the mark excelleration between them.

But you can pick up a cheap 05 D3 TDV6 if you look hard enough, i've seen them as low as $40,000 for the coil sprung base model.

Baz.

Baz.

[BradM]

MY2003 (2003 -2004) D2 TD5 Auto with a few power mods

What's to say..Luxury, Driveability, power with economy, I tow my van easily, great town car and off road performer, Oh..and loves Sand. :)

BradM

[ozscott]

Can someone please tell my 02 D2 manual V8 that is doesnt have the torque to skull drag my 21 Seafarer Vagabond - 2 tonn with dual axle trailer. It tows nicely. Perhaps it is the manual, but then again my 95 V8 auto does pretty well towing the beast also...

Cheers

PS. V8s are good for towing...they have 3 pots more than the diesel and dont rely on a hair dryer:) To be clearer the 4.0 V8 has 340nm of torque at 2,600rpm and the TD5 has 300nm at 2000 rpm...at 2000 rpm the V8 is probably close to 300nm but of course has 40nm more to play with only another 600rpm on board and 31kw more at about the same difference in rpm - ie about 700rpm higher in the rev range.

[Bytemrk]

Can someone please tell my 02 D2 manual V8 that is doesnt have the torque to skull drag my 21 Seafarer Vagabond - 2 tonn with dual axle trailer. It tows nicely. Perhaps it is the manual, but then again my 95 V8 auto does pretty well towing the beast also...

Cheers

PS. V8s are good for towing...they have 3 pots more than the diesel and dont rely on a hair dryer:) To be clearer the 4.0 V8 has 340nm of torque at 2,600rpm and the TD5 has 300nm at 2000 rpm...at 2000 rpm the V8 is probably close to 300nm but of course has 40nm more to play with only another 600rpm on board and 31kw more at about the same difference in rpm - ie about 700rpm higher in the rev range.


Unless of course you chip the TD5.... in which case you have more torque than the V8 AND fuel economy ;)..

I do miss my V8.. really I do...:p

Mark

[scarry]

PS. V8s are good for towing...they have 3 pots more than the diesel and dont rely on a hair dryer:) To be clearer the 4.0 V8 has 340nm of torque at 2,600rpm and the TD5 has 300nm at 2000 rpm...at 2000 rpm the V8 is probably close to 300nm but of course has 40nm more to play with only another 600rpm on board and 31kw more at about the same difference in rpm - ie about 700rpm higher in the rev range.

Sorry to spoil the party....the 03,04auto td5 disco has 340 nm of torque,the manual i think,315nm,both around 2000 rpm.
dont know what the torque curves look like,but they are also important and would give a good idea of engine performance.

I reckon they are probably as good as each other for towing,just the diesel will use less fuel

[ozscott]

I was comparing the actual stats for my year - 02 complianced last of the rectangle headlight models in manual form.

As for chipping...well yeah but how much can a TD5 handle; they are already a tiny motor with a bloody great blower on them! Longevity wise I reckon unchipped would be better but each to their own. Oh and you cannot increase power in a TD5 or any engine without feeding it more combustible stuff...ie if you use those extra kws you use more diesel.

As for torque curve the V8s pretty damn good (there are heaps of Vs around that are not...eg the LS1 6.0 Chevs in the commodores that had max torque at about 4800rpm and the current D3 4.4 Jag V8 that has max torque at about 4400rpm...the old Disco motor was good for torque off idle and the point where the max comes in shows how flat the curve would be and where it is likely to really kick in from. The TD's 20 off to 1 compression gets good torque off idle.

As for them being about the same, particularly in chipped form...I reckon your spot on:) (I was just reacting to Redback and his recommendation to get the TD because the V8 didnt have the torque to tow....it has the torque and the talk).

Cheers

[ghoti]

Thanks for the pointers folks - what a pity ya can't get the V8 "acoustics"
with the TD5 apetite! Going to look at a couple of 2003 TD5's on the
weekend.

[astormsau]

Thanks for the pointers folks - what a pity ya can't get the V8 "acoustics"
with the TD5 apetite! Going to look at a couple of 2003 TD5's on the
weekend.

my experience with a manual td5 defender, with chip and exhaust and running 20pounds of boost in a modified car.....

starting off from a stop has always been a bit interesting with a big load on the back or on steep hills, have to slip the clutch a fair bit to get her going as the TD5 doesn't really seem to have buckets of power until its on boost.

that has meant that when i drive the TD5 i need to be wary of this however slipping the clutch to get her going can become quite tiresome.

once its on boost its an amazingly powerful motor... esp considering its moving a very large car with lots of aftermarket accessories around...

i havent towed anything too large with the td5 yet, but i would expect there would be a bit of an art to getting the thing off the line with a few tonne behind it.

an auto would be very advantageous in this situation....

the v8 disco 2 i own just has power straight off from idle which makes towing and low range driving in things like snow, a bit easier...

my 2 cents...
andrew

[crash]

I have an 01 TD5, owned from new. Has been fantastic, serviced every 10,000kms. Only 2 major issues with it - faulty boost controller and a new MAF sensor. I would go for an updated version 03/04 model as it has the CDL installed. TD5 or V8 - that is a personal issue.
Worse thing about mine is I enjoy it too much, and can not think about parting with it.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

at idle or just off idle any LR V8 will eat any LR diesel.

add 1000rpm and everything changes though,,,

[astormsau]

at idle or just off idle any LR V8 will eat any LR diesel.

add 1000rpm and everything changes though,,,

thats it and unfortunately between 1000 and 2000rpm there is a bit opportunity for it go THUNK and stall :P which i unfortunately do every now and then in the TD5 :)

[Grumndriva]

For what it is worth, my 1999 V8 Auto D2 was great at pulling a 1.4 tonne camper, but not really up to pulling our new 2.5 tonne van. It could pull it, but it was working too hard, and was not pleasant on any sort of hill. I dropped 2 cylinder liners a few weeks ago (no 5 and no 8) and as a result replaced the engine with a factory new 4.6. Now it has adequate power for the 2.5 tonne van - currently in SA on a trip from Canberra. The van is pretty high since it is a dirt roader and full size (not a pop top).

We tried different speed and gear combinations for interest sake on the 1000 km trip across. Fuel consumption varied from 32 litres per 100km with a brand new tight motor in third at around 95 kph to 28 litres per 100 km in third at 85 kph. On a smooth freeway it can just about hold 95-100kph comfortably in top on the level, and give 28 litres per 100 km, but add some undulations (typical roughish bitumen highways) and it just can't do it in top at those revs. Our normal cruise with the van is 85 kph in third which is safe, comfortable and not quite so expensive. Without the van, touring in the Adelaide Hills it has given us between 12 and 14 litres per 100 km, typically at 85-90 kph with frequent slowing and accelerating for the tight corners here (often down to 45 kph recommended).

Temperature never rises above about 96 degrees even on steep hills as long as the speed is reasonable. Around town, in stop start traffic it gets up to around 100 degrees.

In our experience, the 4.6 is a far superior engine to the 4.0 in every respect. Smoother and actually has some torque!

[ozscott]

Hi Grum - yep 2.5 tonn with wind frontage is a big ask for any 4wd. My 02 D2 manual tows my 2 tonn boat well but its 2 tonn not 2.5 and more importantly on the highway mine cuts the air nicely compared to a van at least (my canopy stands up about 1.5 m above the rear of the rover, but its not flat and as upright as most vans).

What info can you give us about the 4.6 conversion? Cost and what mucking around was there. Did you use the heads off the 4.0? Did you get bigger injectors etc. Is the MAF the same?

Cheers

[Narangga]

Thanks for the pointers folks - what a pity ya can't get the V8 "acoustics"
with the TD5 apetite! Going to look at a couple of 2003 TD5's on the
weekend.

And ...

[Slunnie]

What info can you give us about the 4.6 conversion? Cost and what mucking around was there. Did you use the heads off the 4.0? Did you get bigger injectors etc. Is the MAF the same?

Cheers
Lawrance (TempestV8) has done this also.

[ghoti]

And ...

Well, took an 2003 and a 2004 "classic" out for a spin on Saturday. They
both seemed to lack urge, though to be fair I am comparing against the
Disco 3 TDV6 we had until our son wrote it off...

They felt a little higher than the Disco 3. Seats were just as comforatable
and the road noise was almost as good as the Disco 3. They both seemed
to suffer more body roll than the Disco 3.

They were streets ahead of my old Patrol (2001 Ti 4.5 lpg) in terms of
comfort and possibly on par in terms of acceleration. My 11 year old loved
the step for getting in the back.

All in all I think we'd be happy with the TD5 if it was a little more spritely.
Perhaps a chip will help? Will have another look next weekend.

[Narangga]

Well, took an 2003 and a 2004 "classic" out for a spin on Saturday. They
both seemed to lack urge, though to be fair I am comparing against the
Disco 3 TDV6 we had until our son wrote it off...

They felt a little higher than the Disco 3. Seats were just as comforatable
and the road noise was almost as good as the Disco 3. They both seemed
to suffer more body roll than the Disco 3.

They were streets ahead of my old Patrol (2001 Ti 4.5 lpg) in terms of
comfort and possibly on par in terms of acceleration. My 11 year old loved
the step for getting in the back.

All in all I think we'd be happy with the TD5 if it was a little more spritely.
Perhaps a chip will help? Will have another look next weekend.

I got the Chip + Intercooler for around $1700. Then the book figures are close to the TDV6.

[Grumndriva]

Hi Ozscott,


Happy to give you my experiences, but may be different for others. Bear in mind I dropped my liners about 3 weeks before a major planned trip, and had to work fast rather than look for cheaper options. So:

New 4.6 litre RR HSE engine, new lifters, my two 4.0 heads overhauled, new water pump, all new coolant hoses including heater hoses, radiator (recently replaced) removed and tested (due to over pressure when the liners slipped), new O2 sensors: a bit less than $13,000 all up with labour (and a new ignition/steering lock done at the same time). You can see how much I love the car when it's probably not worth that on the open market!

We replaced both the O2 sensors since mine were only just working, and we thought they may have been the cause of a tendency for the engine to run very rough and with no power for a few seconds (maybe 30) when restarted while hot. We kept the original MAF, since it was replaced 2 years ago.

There are no bodges to perform: it is a straight 1 for 1 swap. All I needed was an engineer's report and an inspection to confirm the engine number to change the registration details.

I have to say that the 4.6 is the engine that the Disco should have had from the start. It is so different with or without a load, and I have had better fuel economy with the 4.6 than I ever got with the 4.0, and it is much more responsive to drive.

It is hard to justify the cost from a sensible point of view, but who buys Land Rovers as a sensible option? With time and facilities, the swap could be done much cheaper at home, but based on my quotes a few weeks ago, you should plan on an engine cost of around $6000 for a rebuilt 4.6 from TRS or similar, or around $8000 for a new 4.6 landed and delivered. I have been told that you should avoid any LR V8 built between 1999 and 2001 due to a change in the casting methods during that time which makes them more prone to liner slippage, but I can not confirm that. Diana or soemeone else might be able to advise on that. My original 4.0 was a 1999 build. My new one is a 2002 build.

Would I do it again? In a heart beat. Still haven't found anything I like better than the D2, albeit I like the thought of the TD5 fuel economy when towing the brick.

Hope this answers your questions.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Thanks matey - thats most helpful. The yanks got the D2 in 4.6. They reckon that the 4.6 is a goer with the Bosch motronic gear on.

So the RR HSE engine must have been a late model one where they had gone to the long curved intakes and bosch motronic.

Cheers matey and thanks again

[Slunnie]

Thanks matey - thats most helpful. The yanks got the D2 in 4.6. They reckon that the 4.6 is a goer with the Bosch motronic gear on.

So the RR HSE engine must have been a late model one where they had gone to the long curved intakes and bosch motronic.

Cheers matey and thanks again
I'm pretty sure the Yank spec 4.6 also had the 4HP24EH transmission and the P38 rear diff.