Bilstein steering damper - I'm sick of it.

[wally]

I would have to advise anyone looking for a steering damper not buy a Bilstein. Sure, the damping's effective but it's always trying to self-extend against the steering, with the result being felt at the steering wheel as a pull to the right. Any self-centring the steering had before is gone. It's annoying and I'm sick of it. If anyone knows of any way to counter this effect I'd love to hear it.. But I doubt there is one other than removing it and replacing it with a self-centring damper of another brand.

[discopete]

I've got two vehicles with this damper and they are both fine. Perhaps your problem is elsewhere.

Pete

[dobbo]

What does the car drive like with the steering dampner removed?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

it shouldnt be trying to self-centre,, your tyres WILL though,,
are you sure its a steering damper----

[tdiBrad]

My Bilstein damper is way over 100,000kms old and is still excellent.

I am pretty sure it will not self centre (mine does not), in fact I did have an rtc damper which was rubbish, replaced it with the Bilstein.

The steering may feel a little more heavy with the Bilstein, but that's the damper operating as it should.

[wally]

What does the car drive like with the steering dampner removed?


Before I fitted it there was little damping in the steering because the previous damper was totally shot. But it did at least drive in a straight line. As soon as I fitted the Bilstein it wanted to drive into the oncoming traffic.

[wally]

it shouldnt be trying to self-centre,, your tyres WILL though,,
are you sure its a steering damper----


Yes I'm sure.

[wally]

I've got two vehicles with this damper and they are both fine. Perhaps your problem is elsewhere.

Pete

Possible I suppose. I'll look into it and report back. I'm surprised others aren't having the same experience. It's logical really when a damper is always trying to extend itself (no rtc) it's going to be trying to steer the car away from straight ahead. This is the second one I've had. The other one produced the same effect but I sold the vehicle shortly after so it never had the chance to really get on my nerves.

[dobbo]

Before I fitted it there was little damping in the steering because the previous damper was totally shot. But it did at least drive in a straight line. As soon as I fitted the Bilstein it wanted to drive into the oncoming traffic.

I'd remove it and take it for a quiet drive. Did you get the rest of the steering adjusted to compensate for the new dampner being fitted?

[rovercare]

I'd remove it and take it for a quiet drive. Did you get the rest of the steering adjusted to compensate for the new dampner being fitted?

WTF? adjust the rest of the steering to suit the damper?:bangin:

[rovercare]

I've got 3 I think bilstein dampers floating around, I'll see if all are self extending, later today

I Know some are

Never been able to notice it pull to the right but

[wally]

I dredged this (post from rick130) up from a previous thread:


i psyscially cant compress a new bilstein SD, ask mahn!

you are trying to compress it against gas pressure, this has nothing to do with the valving. Bilstein and Koni are both mono-tube steering dampers and so use a floating piston and Nitrogen chamber at the end of the tube.
I honestly don't think this is the best design for a steering damperBilstein) as it can make the steering want to turn of its own accord if the swivel pre-load isn't enough. (although I use a I've actually heard of someone fitting a De Carbon one and have their Landy do circle work when they took their hands off the wheel.


but i can compress my RTC one at least 2''. so that sort of dispells the fact that there ''to stiff'' [/b]

again, you are only compressing it against (very) low speed valving. A damper can be set up to have very little resistance at very low speeds by using a (relatively) large bleed, then have it firm up very quickly at speeds the designer determines a bump would cause kick back through the steering.
Remember that a steering damper works the same as your suspension dampers (shock absorbers), and is there to perform a similar function, only it's lying down.[/I]

Swivel pre-load eh? Don't know much about that, I'm afraid.

[justinc]

I have one on my RR, and have fitted numerous with no ill effects, (BUT I don't have the damper in the same place as a Defender. The rangie has it on the track rod, not the primary drag link so what you are suggetsing is theoretically possible, although I haven't come across it before.) I would also definately check your castor measurements, has the vehicle been lifted at the front? Is the toe out correct? (0 to 2mm toe out) and the tyre pressures even?

The swivel preloads will be problematic if they are really loose, as the extending damper MAY just push the steering slightly, but I'm suprised if this is the case honestly. The loose swivel preloads will cause usually other problems, like wandering and shuddering etc.Plus if they are really loose, the swivel wiper seal will seep too:eek: I would lift the vehicle at the front on a trolley jack, both wheels off the ground and see if the steering will move to the right of it's own accord...

JC

[feral]

I would like to give Wally a little support as I have the same problem in my D2.

I have recently put a lift in and replaced the steering dampner with a Bilstein. I am forever chasing the 'centre point' and it is so frustrating :mad:

My lift measurements are 530mm front guard to hub, and the rear is 535mm. I am still working throught it to 'whatever it takes' to get it right but that is not for us to hijack the discussion now.

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comments from all of you, indeed.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comment from all of you, indeed.


mines the same(though with original damper and no lift)
after two different reputable places have checked alignments.

there is very slight extra wear on the outside of the front left--

[justinc]

I would like to give Wally a little support as I have the same problem in my D2.

I have recently put a lift in and replaced the steering dampner with a Bilstein. I am forever chasing the 'centre point' and it is so frustrating :mad:

My lift measurements are 530mm front guard to hub, and the rear is 535mm. I am still working throught it to 'whatever it takes' to get it right but that that is not for us to hijack the discussion now.

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comments from all of you, indeed.

Hi Lyndon,

The lift will cause a castor issue, one that is not adjustable on a D2 easily without cranked radius rods. (A d1 and defender can slot their swivel housings) this castor issue will accentuate any road camber effects or even slight damper loads due to the 'lightness' of the steering load .

I feel that even if the damper is contributing, I would also suggest addressing the castor adjustment for overall steering improvement. It should solve this problem too. (Don't forget, the non adjustable factory panhard rod will cause a steering wheel misalignment after a lift, but you have already adjusted the drag link, I think you mentioned?)

JC

[discowhite]

I would have to advise anyone looking for a steering damper not buy a Bilstein. Sure, the damping's effective but it's always trying to self-extend against the steering, with the result being felt at the steering wheel as a pull to the right. Any self-centring the steering had before is gone. It's annoying and I'm sick of it. If anyone knows of any way to counter this effect I'd love to hear it.. But I doubt there is one other than removing it and replacing it with a self-centring damper of another brand.


i agree with what you've said! LRH b4 he left for his juant around OZ had all his steering components replaced and setup buy a tyre shop. new tie rod ends new track and drag links all correct to the factory spec's. when he got it back it pulled also, on the 3rd trip back to the shop he called me, i told him to pull the billie off and see what happens...... it drove straight as.... he took the dampner back to coopers for a refund and fitted a RTC.
problem solved.
i fitted one to mahns old disco at my place and to say it was a pain in the **** to fit was an understatement....

why youde want a dampner thats not neutral,,ie 50/50 is beyond me???

cheers phil

[discowhite]

I have one on my RR, and have fitted numerous with no ill effects, (BUT I don't have the damper in the same place as a Defender. The rangie has it on the track rod, not the primary drag link so what you are suggetsing is theoretically possible, although I haven't come across it before.) I would also definately check your castor measurements, has the vehicle been lifted at the front? Is the toe out correct? (0 to 2mm toe out) and the tyre pressures even?

The swivel preloads will be problematic if they are really loose, as the extending damper MAY just push the steering slightly, but I'm suprised if this is the case honestly. The loose swivel preloads will cause usually other problems, like wandering and shuddering etc.Plus if they are really loose, the swivel wiper seal will seep too:eek: I would lift the vehicle at the front on a trolley jack, both wheels off the ground and see if the steering will move to the right of it's own accord...

JC

i did this on mahns disco, and it turned 1.5 locks on the wheel:eek:
dont know how worn the components were, i was fitting one of my SD relocation kits at the time, oh and it still had the OE dampner on the rear of the diff...

cheers phil

[one_iota]

i did this on mahns disco, and it turned 1.5 locks on the wheel:eek:
dont know how worn the components were, i was fitting one of my SD relocation kits at the time, oh and it still had the OE dampner on the rear of the diff...

cheers phil

Yes Phil it was a pig and I was pleased to replace it with an RTC Tuff Dog.

I recollect that the steering became an effort when the Billie was fitted

As for wear there may have been and still might be swivel preload issues on the disco that will need checking when Cousin John takes ownership. A general vagueness and some wobble even after replacing various bits

[long stroke]

We fitted one to the disco not long back, we havn't had one prob.

TIM.

[justinc]

i did this on mahns disco, and it turned 1.5 locks on the wheel:eek:
dont know how worn the components were, i was fitting one of my SD relocation kits at the time, oh and it still had the OE dampner on the rear of the diff...

cheers phil

I think you are onto something there Phil! D2's and Defenders both have the damper on the primary drag link, My RRC and all D1's have it on the Track rod. I reckon that's why ours don't suffer like yours do!

Interesting problem, and one I'll take into account when fitting dampers to D2's and Defenders in the future. I HAVE fitted a few before, none have had probs but I'll certainly think of an alternative for next time, possibly a less gas assisted one, say a DeCarbon or Koni one?

JC

[mcrover]

WTF? adjust the rest of the steering to suit the damper?:bangin:

X 2

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

And I thought I was going crazy!!
I have a Bilstein in the Classic. when I drive with right arm on door and right hand on wheel, I need to give at least one fingers worth of left hand push on the wheel to keep what feels like to be on centre. However when i do let go, it keeps straight providing the road is not too tramliney. Hand back on the wheel and it feels like it needs that extra finger nudge!

Mine is coming up about 8 years old now, still good but I may just try a straight hydraulic one.
I can understand the D2 and fender issues based on the mounting.
Just try a normal everyday damper and see how it goes.

[Bytemrk]

I had a Bilstein on my previous Discovery - no dramas at all...

It was only 18months old.. so moved it to the new one.. still no issues.

Mark

[rangieman]

No one has suggested try tuning it around end to end . you could have it fitted the wrong way around;)

[rovercare]

No one has suggested try tuning it around end to end . you could have it fitted the wrong way around;)

C'mon Chris, your not that silly, If its Defender style, it has a through bolt style on one end and a pin on the other:p

[rangieman]

C'mon Chris, your not that silly, If its Defender style, it has a through bolt style on one end and a pin on the other:p
Sozzy my bad :Thump: , i got carried away with all the RRC and disco talk and thought of disco or RRC

[one_iota]

Mine on the Disco was a pin to pin.

Instead of being fitted to the track rod it was fitted to the drag link via Phils mod.

Could that have made so much difference?:eek:

[rovercare]

Sozzy my bad :Thump: , i got carried away with all the RRC and disco talk and thought of disco or RRC

Even if that was the case, he'd merely be driveing off the road instead of into oncoming traffic, the better option? maybe, depends on how many trees/power poles/houses/nice grassy knowles on the side of the road:D

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

C'mon Chris, your not that silly, If its Defender style, it has a through bolt style on one end and a pin on the other:p

No one ever considered that it was actually the car the wrong way round.....
Did anyone try at least turning the car around??? i mean...... helloooooo....... :angel: :D

[rovercare]

No one ever considered that it was actually the car the wrong way round.....
Did anyone try at least turning the car around??? i mean...... helloooooo....... :angel: :D

Just like I said to my mate the other day, after he'd melted he's shifter cable needing to turn around in the snow............rear diff lock and stand on it:twisted:, sure enough it turned around:D

But thats a Nissan with Holden EFI 5l:angel: and no constant 4x4;)

[rangieman]

Even if that was the case, he'd merely be driveing off the road instead of into oncoming traffic, the better option? maybe, depends on how many trees/power poles/houses/nice grassy knowles on the side of the road:D
From experience i had a new bilstein damper fitted to a RRC by someone that was fiited the wrong way around , and no it didnt want to go bush :cool:

[r.over]

The damper is simply there to stop the steering going mad when something hits the wheel. Most basic ones do the job fine. If it is causing handling problems I would think that the obvious solution is to get rid of it and buy one that does not want to extend under its own power.

[GuyG]

I fitted a new Bilstein damper to my 1990 rangie classic and had the same problem - it was a right pain. I removed it after one trip. Took it off replaced it with an older one and no problems. M R Automotive said that they can get the amount of gas in them reduced - which should fix this problem. And all my steering etc is good so definately the dampner was the issue.

I believe Camo had the same problem with his rangie and bilstein dampner

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Wonder how a "battery" of boot and bonnet struts would go, all welded into one convenient little package??? :BigThumb:
Have an equal amount opposing each other until it is neutral in load.......?? hmmmmmmm
.. or do mathmatics prevail and negate the neutralisation into nothing..... 0....... neutral in fact.. which brings me back to the start........??????? hmmmmmmmmm

[Bushie]

I fitted a billie steering damper to the defender before our Madigan trip, in my opinion it made the vehicle much more pleasant to drive.

What I can say though, is when I got the steering box reco'd a few years ago the guy gave me very specific instructions on how to set it up (centre ?), when I put it back in saying 'very few are set up correctly from the factory' I wonder if this would make a difference.



Martyn

[McDisco]

I have the Bilstein damper and havent notices any issues with it. Could it be that some of the are valved differently?

Angus

[JDNSW]

As r.over says, the damper is there for extreme steering impacts. If it is needed to make the car more driveable on the road, then something else needs fixing (although a RTC damper may be the cheapest fix for handling that has been upset by a lift or wide tyres). And similarly, if it has a significant adverse effect on driving on the road, then it has a problem, although usually it should drive slightly better without the damper.

John

[Larns]

I hear ya Wally, I recently fitted one to my 90 and what a pain. It's still there out of spite of how much they cost! I'll be buggered if I'm spending any more money on it either.
It certainly is tighter than the munro job though.

[GuyG]

The point is not the purpose of the dampner or what it does or how it makes the car drive but that where previously you were able to remove your hand from the steering wheel the car would continue in a straight line (not a safe practice) but after the bilstein is fitted you constantly have to steer with pressure on the steering wheel as if you are making a slight left hand turn in order to keep going straight ahead.

Possible cause is too much gas in the dampner making it extend too much thus causing the vehicle to want to swerve to the right.

I have one its done 200km and back in the box it came in because it sucked.

[wally]

I hear ya Wally, I recently fitted one to my 90 and what a pain. It's still there out of spite of how much they cost! I'll be buggered if I'm spending any more money on it either.
It certainly is tighter than the munro job though.

That's exactly it. I would have got rid of it long ago if it didn't cost so bloody much.

[rick130]

I'm guessing not enough swivel pre-load. (as that old quote says ;))

I don't think having a pressurised damper is ideal as it may do what you've experienced, but I've been running one for six years now without a problem on the Defender, other than the drag link always trying to push away from the damper (looks like it's rolled backwards).
Maybe sometimes they slip out of the factory with the gas pressure they use in their normal dampers ? (Bloody high, something like 20 bar :eek:)

A mate had a Billie specially valved for use as a monoshock roll damper in a race car, (monoshock cars don't have any roll damping normally) and even with it being gas pressurised we could even out the corner weights and it didn't seen to want to roll one way more than the other :D

[Ricky]

Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Just fitted a Bilstein steering damper to the D1 last weekend and guess what.....pulls to the right and steering no longer centres. DO NOT GET ONE! Great for suspension - but keep em away from your steering.

Luckily I complained soon enough to get a refund.

[Vern]

Wish I had seen this thread earlier. Just fitted a Bilstein steering damper to the D1 last weekend and guess what.....pulls to the right and steering no longer centres. DO NOT GET ONE! Great for suspension - but keep em away from your steering.

Luckily I complained soon enough to get a refund.Thats a big big call, i reckon 80% of aftermarket ones will be bilstiens, i have them fitted to all my Landys and have had no problems, i'd be looking for another problem. Was the correct one fitted?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I had one for ten years on the D1 and had no problems,,,

[feral]

I would like to give Wally a little support as I have the same problem in my D2.

I have recently put a lift in and replaced the steering dampner with a Bilstein. I am forever chasing the 'centre point' and it is so frustrating :mad:

My lift measurements are 530mm front guard to hub, and the rear is 535mm. I am still working throught it to 'whatever it takes' to get it right but that is not for us to hijack the discussion now.

Back to Wally's problem....

It is as if the natural centre point of the steering is to the right i.e. if you let go of the steering it will drift off to the right. I have done everything to make it correct with alignments which Bob Jane has said it wasn't far out but when you drive it the centre point is worse. I have adjusted the drag link to try and get the steering wheel centred but it appears to always be pointing to the right. I know we need to take into consideration the camber of the road and such but it just feel so unnatural to having to tug the steering wheel all the time just to keep it straight.

Interesting comments from all of you, indeed.


Well since these outlandish comments were made things have changed :D

I eventually got it to centre and it feels great. I don't know what I have done but it tracks well and no tyre wear.

I imagine it was just a case of everything to settle down and just to make a fine adjustment.

Its all good.:thumbsup:

[Vern]

Caster???^^^:(

[wally]

Well several months back I tossed the Bilstein in the shed and put on a new Boge one in its place. Problem solved. The damping's not as good but it now drives in a straight line, and I know what I'd prefer. Some day I'll get around to checking the swivel preload. It may well be that, as Rick suggests.

[GuyG]

The point is not the purpose of the dampner or what it does or how it makes the car drive but that where previously you were able to remove your hand from the steering wheel the car would continue in a straight line (not a safe practice) but after the bilstein is fitted you constantly have to steer with pressure on the steering wheel as if you are making a slight left hand turn in order to keep going straight ahead.

Possible cause is too much gas in the dampner making it extend too much thus causing the vehicle to want to swerve to the right.

I have one its done 200km and back in the box it came in because it sucked.


OK to update this, I have now fitted a Maxi track rod which has the ability to adjust where the dampner mounts onto it as opposed to the standard track rod which has a fixed position. At the same time they refitted the Bilstein Dampner and the problem is now sorted in my rangie and the rangie will now drive in a straight line without the need for constant correction.

[Hoges]

I suspect the problem is with the gas preload. I can't understand the logic of preloading a steering damper with gas.

Shocks are gassed to minimise the oil foaming from sustained high frequency /high amplitude oscillations.

Steering dampers do not oscillate at anywhere near the frequency /amplitude combination amplitude of axle-based ones. The standard oil filled OEM is more than sufficient.

A steering damper preloaded with gas is going to extend to the max when left with no compression load. So when compressed half way in the straight ahead steering position, of course it's going to try and push the steering one way or t'other.

It's essentially there to try and prevent (broken thumbs from) violent changes of direction of the front wheels being transferred back through the steering wheel when travelling in the rough...

idle thoughts ...for info

cheers

[clean32]

I was thinking of this the other day, if I remember correct the damper is chassis mounted on the drivers side? If so any height or suspension lift will need an extension or adjustment to get the wheels to centre again. IE the higher the lift the longer the distance between the damper mounting points when centred. Or a damper set up for stock height will turn the wheels to the left as the distance between the diff and chassis increases.

[rovercare]

I was thinking of this the other day, if I remember correct the damper is chassis mounted on the drivers side? If so any height or suspension lift will need an extension or adjustment to get the wheels to centre again. IE the higher the lift the longer the distance between the damper mounting points when centred. Or a damper set up for stock height will turn the wheels to the left as the distance between the diff and chassis increases.

Dampers aren;t centred in their position/stroke, they operate the same either way and should not be self extending

The only need to move the mounts would be if the damper wasn;t capable of strokeing far enough, which is likely never to be the case

The damper on a LR or converted RR is chassis mounted on the PASSENGER side

Its mounted to the 3rd member on an RR and any lift change has nil effect

[Ace]

Dampers aren;t centred in their position/stroke, they operate the same either way and should not be self extending

The only need to move the mounts would be if the damper wasn;t capable of strokeing far enough, which is likely never to be the case

The damper on a LR or converted RR is chassis mounted on the PASSENGER side

Its mounted to the 3rd member on an RR and any lift change has nil effect

I had though it was something else, and getting numerous wheel alignments over time i just thought it was that the slope of the road or something made it pull to one side, but its not that bad that it bothers me to much. But i agree with Discowhite when he said its a pain in the rear fitting it, it self extends and pushes the arm out. So if you put it on the ground whilst working on something else after you take it off it pushed piston right out and is a pain in the arse to push back in.

Well thats another thing to add to the list of things i need to do once i get finished at the academy.

[rick130]

I suspect the problem is with the gas preload. I can't understand the logic of preloading a steering damper with gas.

Shocks are gassed to minimise the oil foaming from sustained high frequency /high amplitude oscillations.



Billies, Delphi/De Carbon and Koni are mono tube dampers, they have to use gas pressure against the floating piston to work. They need the floating piston and gas space as volume to take up the increased volume of the piston rod during compression. The displaced fluid has to go somewhere.


A steering damper preloaded with gas is going to extend to the max when left with no compression load. So when compressed half way in the straight ahead steering position, of course it's going to try and push the steering one way or t'other.


Except we have friction from the tyre/road interface, and the friction from swivel pre-load to overcome. On most vehicles a Billie damper drives dead straight.



It's essentially there to try and prevent (broken thumbs from) violent changes of direction of the front wheels being transferred back through the steering wheel when travelling in the rough...

<snip>

and to prevent shimmy on road.
Steering Beam axles are inherently unstable, I've nearly been thrown out the drivers door just hitting a small bump at 60km/h on one stretch of road. A harmonic started and the tie rod started to flex and oscillate. I actually stopped on the side of the road and had Dad drive past to replicate it. We beefed the tie rod up (this was twenty five years ago) and it helped enormously, then I fitted a damper to eliminate it.
The same thing would happen to any stock Rover with the piece of spaghetti tie rod and drag link without a damper.

Add in larger diameter and width tyres and heavier valving is called for in the damper too, in other words probably an aftermarket one.

[Rusty Rangie]

Just fitted a Bilstein steering damper, it is always wanting to extend causing the car to turn right.
Sending it back and installing a normal oil damper.

Caution to anybody thinking of buying one.

[loanrangie]

Just fitted a Bilstein steering damper, it is always wanting to extend causing the car to turn right.
Sending it back and installing a normal oil damper.

Caution to anybody thinking of buying one.

When you compress it does it self extend under pressure ?

[Redback]

I have read through this and other threads on steering dampers, 4WD1 have the Ironman damper for $121 delivered, so I thought bugger it and have bought it, I read the dramas some were having with the bilsteins and I really didn't want an RTC damper so Ironman it is, it's 50/50 with a foam cell construction and 35mm bore size, desighned for extended offroad situations, which is what we do.

Baz.

[Rangier Rover]

I would have to advise anyone looking for a steering damper not buy a Bilstein. Sure, the damping's effective but it's always trying to self-extend against the steering, with the result being felt at the steering wheel as a pull to the right. Any self-centring the steering had before is gone. It's annoying and I'm sick of it. If anyone knows of any way to counter this effect I'd love to hear it.. But I doubt there is one other than removing it and replacing it with a self-centring damper of another brand.

Trying to self extend?:confused: Sure its not a gas shock absorber?
Dampers only mask steering problems anyway. Remove it, go for a drive. So long as bushes are good, swivel preload ,alignment ,caster is close it should run straight as a die with little or no shimmy.
I have never bothered with big arse dampers and my 120" runs 35 X 12.5 tyres on -25mm 8" rims. Only get a little bit of kick back wile driving over rocks at speed. Never gets shimmy at all. Most of my series don't even run a damper as the swivel preload is usually enough.Just something else to bend. Best part is they all run straight as a die. Even with uneven tyres. They are very forgiving really.

Getting back to that damper you have. Does it fully extend its self wile disconnected? or just half way? .

[PhilipA]

It's a characteristic of Billies as they are a high pressure gas shock.
Graeme Cooper warned me against getting one if that would bug me years ago.
I just use a stock one. never had a shimmy caused by it.
Regards Philip A

[Tank]

If any brand Damper causes the vehicle to veer off the straight and narrow then there is something wrong with the suspension/steering setup on the vehicle, the damper is just multiplying the effects of a worn or out of adjustment front end, Regards Frank.

[Tombie]

This is not as uncommon as one likes to hope.

There have been several Billie SDs cause this.. They are gas filled and some get a bit mroe gas than others...

Also depends on the rest of your steering system (tension in swivels etc)... As to how bad the effect is.

Personally - from experience the BEST SD for earlier LRs running Oversized tyres is the Rancho version. D2s etc cannot get this unit to suit, an RTC Toughdog is the go!

[dullbird]

I have read through this and other threads on steering dampers, 4WD1 have the Ironman damper for $121 delivered, so I thought bugger it and have bought it, I read the dramas some were having with the bilsteins and I really didn't want an RTC damper so Ironman it is, it's 50/50 with a foam cell construction and 35mm bore size, desighned for extended offroad situations, which is what we do.

Baz.

This is what I have fitted to my disco baz

[disco_thrasher]

funny this thread popped back up ,as i am experiecing same issues with my bilstien on my D2 am about to put a tough dog one in

[GuyG]

If any brand Damper causes the vehicle to veer off the straight and narrow then there is something wrong with the suspension/steering setup on the vehicle, the damper is just multiplying the effects of a worn or out of adjustment front end, Regards Frank.

Sorry Tank, have to disagree with this statement. If the length of the dampner straight out of the box is longer than the space to fit it to the vehicle, then the vehicle will no longer be able to track straight ahead.

I think all of the cases mentioned in this thread, the vehicle has veered to the right. If however there was less gas in the dampner causing the dampner to be shorter than the fixing points then the vehicle would veer to the left (assuming that the dampner is fitted between the track rod and the diff like on classic rangies).

[rick130]

Sorry Tank, have to disagree with this statement. If the length of the dampner straight out of the box is longer than the space to fit it to the vehicle, then the vehicle will no longer be able to track straight ahead.

I think all of the cases mentioned in this thread, the vehicle has veered to the right. If however there was less gas in the dampner causing the dampner to be shorter than the fixing points then the vehicle would veer to the left (assuming that the dampner is fitted between the track rod and the diff like on classic rangies).

What ??

re-read my post from 11/4/09.
Bilstein, Koni and de-Carbon are all mono tube steering dampers, so, regardless of how low or high the gas pressure is (even if only 1psi) they will continue to extend until they top out.

This isn't a problem unless something in the system (either too high gas pressure, too low swivel pre-load, etc) is out of balance.

Think of it this way, if the extending force (which is the area of the piston rod multiplied by the gas pressure) exceeds the drag of the swivel preload and the tyre/road interface friction, it will self steer the car (as some have recounted)

If the swivel pre-load is OK or they haven't overdone it with the sherry at the shock factory and over pressurised the damper, the vehicle drives straight, as many of us with Bilstein steering dampers can attest.
I can take my hands of the wheel on a straight road (no camber) and the car drives straight (which I wish our Patrol did......well, it sort of does)

[GuyG]

What ??

re-read my post from 11/4/09.
Bilstein, Koni and de-Carbon are all mono tube steering dampers, so, regardless of how low or high the gas pressure is (even if only 1psi) they will continue to extend until they top out.

This isn't a problem unless something in the system (either too high gas pressure, too low swivel pre-load, etc) is out of balance.

Think of it this way, if the extending force (which is the area of the piston rod multiplied by the gas pressure) exceeds the drag of the swivel preload and the tyre/road interface friction, it will self steer the car (as some have recounted)

If the swivel pre-load is OK or they haven't overdone it with the sherry at the shock factory and over pressurised the damper, the vehicle drives straight, as many of us with Bilstein steering dampers can attest.
I can take my hands of the wheel on a straight road (no camber) and the car drives straight (which I wish our Patrol did......well, it sort of does)

I've read your reply, but it makes no difference to my answer or my experience with the unit. When I spoke to the supplier they said that they could have some of the gas removed, it was easier to just fit another dampner (different brand) - problem solved.

I was able to have the bilstein dampner refitted when we installed a maxi drive heavy duty track rod because where the dampner mounts to the track rod is adjustable to take into account the extra length of the bilstein dampner over what was previously used - again problem solved

I think you've hit the nail on the head, clearly it would seem that there are batches of bilsteins steering dampners that have been over pressurised at the factory which are causing the problems which people are experiencing. This is confirmed by the supplier saying they could have some gas removed from the one I purchased.

I find it interesting that many people have found exactly the same issue after fitting the bilstein dampner, then the issue has gone when a different one is fitted, yet there are those who continue to not believe that it could in fact just be an issue with the dampner itself.

Anyway, its no longer an issue for me as the bilstein dampner was damaged when 4wding and is on its way to scrap metal. I won't be getting another one.

[Tank]

Guy, I have had Bilstien dampers on 3 Disco's with no problem whatsoever, fitted one to my next door neighbours 93 Disco, also no problem, it took me (106kgs) and my son (120kgs) to compress and fit these dampers, they all run straight as a die, as do the majority of bilstien fitted Disco's, if your's or anyone elses steers itself, then there is something wrong with your front end, not the damper, Regards Frank.

[rick130]

I've read your reply, but it makes no difference to my answer or my experience with the unit.
[snip]


Your longer and shorter examples threw me, as regardless of the gas pressure the unit will continue to extend, it can never be 'shorter' as you put.

[rick130]

[snip]
clearly it would seem that there are batches of bilsteins steering dampners that have been over pressurised at the factory
[snip]


This has definitely happened with Delphi de Carbon's in the past, there was a spate reported on LR4x4 a few years back (or it might have been the old LRE forum that pre-dated it) where people were literally running in circles the gas pressure was that high, the dampers were forcing the steering onto full lock.
Funnily enough a few went to Bilstein without issue.

[Tombie]

Guy, I have had Bilstien dampers on 3 Disco's with no problem whatsoever, fitted one to my next door neighbours 93 Disco, also no problem, it took me (106kgs) and my son (120kgs) to compress and fit these dampers, they all run straight as a die, as do the majority of bilstien fitted Disco's, if your's or anyone elses steers itself, then there is something wrong with your front end, not the damper, Regards Frank.

Frank there are a few cases where Heasmans have reduced the pressure in a steering damper because it was too high factory and was forcing the unit to extend with more force than normal.

Nothing to do with the front ends...

A good steering damper is neutral - doesnt move at all.. The Delphi and Bilstein ones are gassed and are not neutral.. They extend... Too much gas and they extend with more force, often pushing a vehicle to turn.

And mate - you need to eat your Wheeties! Compressing a Billy isnt that hard :cool:

[GuyG]

Thanks rick130

Same cause - to much gas pressure
Same end result - car went right
Different reasoning why based on lack of understanding of how it all worked.

[disco_thrasher]

man if it takes 226kgs plus to compress a steering dampner the poor steering box must be coping a hard time:D:p

[steve_35]

Is it absolutely necessary to have the damper fitted while driving on the road

[dullbird]

no I don't believe it is if your steering geometry is set up correct all it does is take some of the harshness out

[Tank]

Frank there are a few cases where Heasmans have reduced the pressure in a steering damper because it was too high factory and was forcing the unit to extend with more force than normal.

Nothing to do with the front ends...

A good steering damper is neutral - doesnt move at all.. The Delphi and Bilstein ones are gassed and are not neutral.. They extend... Too much gas and they extend with more force, often pushing a vehicle to turn.

And mate - you need to eat your Wheeties! Compressing a Billy isnt that hard :cool:
Well it is when you're 63 and laying on your back trying to shorten the bilstien damper, the combined weights of my Son and I were only beneficial in stopping our fat arses sliding on the grass while we struggled to get the "long" end into the hole.
As for compressing "Billies" while standing, no wucking furries, can do it one handed, LOL, Regards Frank.

[discowhite]

Is it absolutely necessary to have the damper fitted while driving on the road

no its not!

now different story if the road is rutted and bumpy, the Sd is to lessen steering feedback through the steering wheel.


cheers phil

[rick130]

no its not!

now different story if the road is rutted and bumpy, the Sd is to lessen steering feedback through the steering wheel.


cheers phil


And stop shimmy.
Now everyone here will tell you Land Rovers don't shimmy, but any other live axled 4x4 I've had would shimmy if you hit the right bump to set up a harmonic without a steering damper. ;)

[discowhite]

And stop shimmy.
Now everyone here will tell you Land Rovers don't shimmy, but any other live axled 4x4 I've had would shimmy if you hit the right bump to set up a harmonic without a steering damper. ;)

thats correct, but not running one (provided all front end alignments/components are in GC) will not make the car dart off and nail the nearest granny on a scooter.

cheers phil

[fourteen8]

Been searching and reading thread about play in steering wheel and found this.

I removed bilstein and put back the stock one and now the car going straight. Not pulling to right and wont go to center if turning right. Bilstein does extend to max by itself.

The problem now is that it doesnt go back to center whether turn right or left now. But at least the car is going straight for now.

Could I need castor bushes replacement? I do have 2" lift with 265/70/16 BFG AT.

[mike 90 RR]

The problem now is that it doesnt go back to center whether turn right or left now. But at least the car is going straight for now.



I run 2 RR'cs ...
One has the original steering damper and is light to turn ... Luv it
The other has the original replacement damper and is just a touch harder to turn ... but still light .... luv it

I'm now buying another RRC and it is hard to turn ... Went and looked under the car and eye-spied a yellow damper ... That is coming off and gonna hit the bin

The harder the damper, the more pressure and wear you put on the steering box = $




Your no "return to centre" will most probably be sorted out with a wheel alignment .... :)

[350RRC]

The problem now is that it doesnt go back to center whether turn right or left now. But at least the car is going straight for now.

Could I need castor bushes replacement? I do have 2" lift with 265/70/16 BFG AT.

2" spring lift will leave you with 0 or slightly negative caster. Rotating the swivels is the best fix.

There is also a recent thread where someone fitted a RTC damper which worked to centre the steering with a similar lift. Often wondered about that approach.

cheers, DL

[fourteen8]

2" spring lift will leave you with 0 or slightly negative caster. Rotating the swivels is the best fix.

cheers, DL

Rotating the swivels, is it hard to do? anyone can give me a hint on how to do it? I couldnt any in tutorial/project section.

Thanks.

[bee utey]

Rotating the swivels, is it hard to do? anyone can give me a hint on how to do it? I couldnt any in tutorial/project section.

Thanks.
Searchy:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/70107-caster-corrected-front-swivels-how-do-4.html

:):):):)

[fourteen8]

2" spring lift will leave you with 0 or slightly negative caster. Rotating the swivels is the best fix.

There is also a recent thread where someone fitted a RTC damper which worked to centre the steering with a similar lift. Often wondered about that approach.

cheers, DL

I replaced my bilstein steering damper with stock n now it drive straight but it is not firm as before.

Btw, i read an article on 4x4 article about rtc and adjustable steering damper. Whats the diff between the two n what do you think bout rtc n adjustable steering damper? Anyone has tried them?

[Roger S]

Just fitted my bilstein steering damper to the 110 County and all is OK
Cheers
Roger S

[Tank]

I would advise you fix the problem with your steering/front end before bagging the bilstien damper, I have had one on the last 3 Discos and never had a problem, check your swivel pin preload, Regardes Frank.

[land864]

Roger S . Good to see your steering damper is okay:)

How are you at fixing phone lines :o

[Gibs]

Food for thought: Steering Damper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r90KlktaASc).
plus a bit of info on the subject of dampers in general as well.
Dampers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxCiZWwtxz4&t=626s).

PS: I don't have 1 GAS shock on my truck, I only use OIL filled DAMPERS (Koni) including my Steering DAMPER.