Winch Service (warn)

[rangieman]

Well this started out as a service and turned in to a head ache;)

First job is remove the wire cable or synthetic rope from your winch to save on weight ,Then remove the winch from the bullbar ,
If you are not able to do this dont bother with the rest:p

If you are unsure to where your power cables go mark them with a paint pen for the control box and the motorhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/632.jpg
Next with the winch removed its time to remove the motor
after cracking the allen head bolts and if you dont have allen sockets you can use a screw driver to undo the bolts
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/633.jpg
Remove the motor and be suprised at the inside of the drum where the brake is , mine was not that bad as what had been suggested hey mat(t)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/607.jpg
to remove the brake you need long nose pliers ,and squeeze the 2 tabs together and at the same time pull the brake with shaft out of the drum , The brake shoes will fall out once the shaft is removed but dont stress you will see how it all goes back together
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/634.jpg
See the motor in the botom of the pic it has the coupler on the end of the shaft that operates the brake
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/635.jpg
Brake shoes and shaft
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/165.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/636.jpg
I cleaned the brake shoes up on a wire wheel on a bench grinder a wire brush will do the same
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/637.jpg
To clean the inside of the brake drum i used a hone , when using the hone do not lubricate it use it dry , a wire brush will do the same with a bit of work
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/638.jpg
Mmm the motor need i say anymore
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/639.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/640.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/641.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/642.jpg
I will edit the post and add extra pics as the questions come in , so keep coming back to recheck it

[rangieman]

Well after the shock of the motor and the $$$$:eek:
The gearbox was next
Mmm water has been in there
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/625.jpg
the gearbox is simple as to dismantle and to assemble
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/626.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/627.jpg
I cleaned all the grease off all the gears and cleaned the gears and re greased them with waterproof wheel bearing grease
Mmm 6hp motor
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/628.jpg
In thr pic is the cap off my 2.5hp:( motor which i thought was a 4.6hp :eek:motor
Now i sand blastered all external parts then etch primed them and applied a top coat of paint
Oh and when you assemble the gearbox and motor use a very small amount of silastic to help water proof
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/629.jpg
The only tricky part of this was putting the brake back together
hope you enjoy;)
Oh and a before pic
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/630.jpg

[mcrover]

Hey Chris, did you get around to checking the windings for shorts or open circuits? As with a clean up on the wire wheel, that armature looks as though it wouldn't come up too bad in the photo, may look worse in real life though.

I know you went up to a bigger motor but that may do as a good spare or EBay job :D

Magnets are all there so they should be ok with a clean out, change the brushes and should be right.:D

Looks great now, maybe too good to hide behind the bull bar lol

[rangieman]

Hey Chris, did you get around to checking the windings for shorts or open circuits? As with a clean up on the wire wheel, that armature looks as though it wouldn't come up too bad in the photo, may look worse in real life though.

I know you went up to a bigger motor but that may do as a good spare or EBay job :D

Magnets are all there so they should be ok with a clean out, change the brushes and should be right.:D
Have a look at the windings they are starting to melt
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/614.jpg
It might be a bit hard to see :cool:

[Slunnie]

Good job Rangieman, thanks for this!

[mcrover]

Ok, thats what that thought it was rust :(

Oh well, clean it up, Dulux reco and EBay is your freind, no warrenty :p

[rangieman]

Good job Rangieman, thanks for this!
Like i said the only pain in but part is the brake but not realy:D

[Slunnie]

Like i said the only pain in but part is the brake but not realy:D
I was wondering about that, but I didn't see any particular reference to it so thought it must just be a PITA to get back together or into the drum. Was there anything in there to beware of or is it just a PITA. I liked the hone job in the drum to clean it out though. I assume this was done dry or did you clean the oil out later?

[rovercare]

Good job Rangieman,

^^^^:cool:

Ahh, its good to see the low mount grunge I spoke of:D

[Slunnie]

Is s missing a spline or is it supposed to be like that? Whats the shaft go to?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/607.jpg

[moose]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/605.jpg


:D:D:D:D



But seriously, good stuff!

[mcrover]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/605.jpg


:D:D:D:D



But seriously, good stuff!

Yeah I noticed that as well but after the photo of Chris a while back I wasnt going to say anything because it meant we were even........:o

[rangieman]

I was wondering about that, but I didn't see any particular reference to it so thought it must just be a PITA to get back together or into the drum. Was there anything in there to beware of or is it just a PITA. I liked the hone job in the drum to clean it out though. I assume this was done dry or did you clean the oil out later?
Yes i honed it dry :D

[rangieman]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/605.jpg


:D:D:D:D



But seriously, good stuff!
I remember you reading those tecnical books last time you were around here:p

[rangieman]

I suggest everyone keep reading this over again and again as questions are put forward
I will edit the post to suit:D

[dmdigital]

Good set of shots and explanation. Not sure about the manuals shown in the photograph though:confused: Is it too late to offer you a genuine Warn Service manual?

I'm still to strip my XD9000 on the Tdi and install the XDC 9.5 on the TDCi.

[Bundalene]

I suggest everyone keep reading this over again and again as questions are put forward
I will edit the post to suit:D

Hi, I overhauled my 10,000lb low mount a few monthe back, fortunately the motor end was in much better nick. However, how do ypu stop water or moisture getting into the planerary gears via the free spool lever? I also used water resistant grease. Thanks for the excellent summary. Erich.

[rangieman]

Hi, I overhauled my 10,000lb low mount a few monthe back, fortunately the motor end was in much better nick. However, how do ypu stop water or moisture getting into the planerary gears via the free spool lever? I also used water resistant grease. Thanks for the excellent summary. Erich.
All that stops water getting in via the free spool lever is a O ring i suggest you replace the O ring ;)

[Bundalene]

All that stops water getting in via the free spool lever is a O ring i suggest you replace the O ring ;)

Hi, sorry but I should have been more specific - I replaced the O ring (which still seemed OK), however, each time I have serviced one of these the grease at the far end adjacent to the free spool lever - appears very thick almost solid, as if the O ring is failing to do it's job. Unless it is just where any condensate gathers and not the fault of the O ring.

When the winch operates it gets hot and upon cooling draws in air - normally moist air. Maybe a breather wouldn't be out of the question. Erich

[mcrover]

Hi, sorry but I should have been more specific - I replaced the O ring (which still seemed OK), however, each time I have serviced one of these the grease at the far end adjacent to the free spool lever - appears very thick almost solid, as if the O ring is failing to do it's job. Unless it is just where any condensate gathers and not the fault of the O ring.

When the winch operates it gets hot and upon cooling draws in air - normally moist air. Maybe a breather wouldn't be out of the question. Erich

Right there is the answer to your question, an O ring unless under pressure wont seal against everything.

A breather does work, I have heard of high mounts with air injection for cooling as well as to keep water out but someone else may be able to fill you in on details.

Most greases Ive found (other than running grease) if left stagnant but is heat effected will go like a hard custard consistancy.

It's not really too much of a problem unless you never service it.

[Slunnie]

Hobzee does this mod to winch motors. Apparently it works as a breather, but apparntly you can set it up with low pressure air into it which aside from pressurising it will also keep the motor cool.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/589.jpg

[rangieman]

Hobzee does this mod to winch motors. Apparently it works as a breather, but apparntly you can set it up with low pressure air into it which aside from pressurising it will also keep the motor cool.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/09/589.jpg
Yeah for $90 :eek:
Just drill and tap a hole , how hard is it;)

[Slunnie]

Yeah for $90 :eek:
Just drill and tap a hole , how hard is it;)
Its a bit like that isn't it - but it depends on whether you have the tools (tap)

[Tombie]

Right there is the answer to your question, an O ring unless under pressure wont seal against everything.

A breather does work, I have heard of high mounts with air injection for cooling as well as to keep water out but someone else may be able to fill you in on details.

Most greases Ive found (other than running grease) if left stagnant but is heat effected will go like a hard custard consistancy.

It's not really too much of a problem unless you never service it.

O'rings will seal in static applications... Provided correct tolerances are used in the housing...

Oil in the grease will turn it to slop, not hard and crusty :)

We had a winch running nitrogen cooling on the Green disco my mate had...

A small bottle and regulator under the drivers seat and a solenoid to activate it.

[rangieman]

Its a bit like that isn't it - but it depends on whether you have the tools (tap)
Sorry to say it,s not going to cost you $90 for the correct size tap and fitting + some hose:D

For what its worth id just buy the tap;)

[rangieman]

Man i just spooled the cable on the winch , lets just say the power difference is like a gen111 v8 compared to a Tdi:D:D:D
All i can suggest anyone wanting to go to the 6hp motor just do it , you wont regret it;)

[Jock The Rock]

Man i just spooled the cable on the winch , lets just say the power difference is like a gen111 v8 compared to a Tdi:D:D:D
All i can suggest anyone wanting to go to the 6hp motor just do it , you wont regret it;)

Can I ask how much the 6hp motor set you back? :o

:)

[Slunnie]

I tried Greg from Smithies and they were $480 + post. I ended up buying it from Hobzee at $525 + post I think it was as it came with the breather kit. I thought $45 was fair enough as I'd never get off my ass and do it.




Rangieman, what were the difficulties in putting the 2.5hp end onto the 6hp? I was going to put my 4.6hp end on but the guy from Hobzees was saying to either machine the 6hp end or fit a 2.5hp end as its a better fit.

[rangieman]

I tried Greg from Smithies and they were $480 + post. I ended up buying it from Hobzee at $525 + post I think it was as it came with the breather kit. I thought $45 was fair enough as I'd never get off my ass and do it.




Rangieman, what were the difficulties in putting the 2.5hp end onto the 6hp? I was going to put my 4.6hp end on but the guy from Hobzees was saying to either machine the 6hp end or fit a 2.5hp end as its a better fit.
2.5 end cap fits straight on , All that needs to be done is remove the bearing from the 6hp motor as the 2.5 cap has a bush type bearing in the end cap;)

[r.over]

Just a couple of points.

Firstly you may find that the winch will not fit back on your bullbar if you change to a 6Hp motor. It is a lot longer that other motors. The winch will usually have to be offset when fitted as it will not fit if you bull bar brackets run up the inside of the chassis rails.

Secondly, it is not generally a good idea to seal the motor with silicon. The Warn winches are designed to have a drain hole between the motor and the brackets. You block that up and water cannot get out. The motor on my brand new XP9.5 lasted less than 6 months before it completely rusted out. Rang ARB under warranty and all they could say is that you are suppose to run it after getting wet to dry it out. Pity they could not explain how the water could get out of a sealed motor by running it. The XP is suppose to be waterproof and the drain holes come blocked from the factory. If you are going to invest $500 in a new motor, invest in putting a breather top (to let evaporated water out when you run it) and Bottom (to drain water out when needed).

Don't think that it is mud holes that get water into the winch, it is often washing it after it has been in the mud.

[moose]

Just out of curiosity, if you seal the motor with silicone so the water doesn't get in in the first place, why would it matter if it can't get out? I would have thought a breather in the top would introduce more water to the motor.

[Slunnie]

Good points.

For me at least, the 6hp will either run a 2.5hp end or I will machine the 6hp end to suit. The winch will be flipped and the motor will run through the bar mounts cutout (the same way as the 10,000 and 12000lb winches do) so the increase in length wont be a problem or offsetting the fairlead. If you seal the motor completely, apparently it will still produce condensation in them - apparently the totally sealed Brawns did this... as I said... apparently. The breather in the top allows some minor air movement to prevent the condensation and the hose off the breather runs up to the firewall to prevent water getting in, much like it does for gearboxs and axles. I do tend to think that its not a bad idea also (as suggested) to add low pressure air into the winch motor to bubble out any water if there are leaky points in the motor.

re mud... my 4.6hp had mud all in the end of it.

[r.over]

Just out of curiosity, if you seal the motor with silicone so the water doesn't get in in the first place, why would it matter if it can't get out? I would have thought a breather in the top would introduce more water to the motor.
You can never keep all water out. You can make it more resistant to getting water in, but you can't make it waterproof.
The breather at the top is like your diff breathers. It has a long pipe on it to make sure the air intake is well above water level.

[Jojo]

To avoid this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/165.jpg

I put an adequately sized hose clamp around the brake assembly when pulling it out of the drum. Keeps everything in place and allows for careful opening in case it's needed.
The brake assembly is spring loaded so it will come apart when removing it. WARN themselves recommend a replacement in that case, but apparently it can be fitted together again, although it seems rather difficult. Pic to follow...