new defender engine problem

[lambrover]

At work today a ford transit van was toed in the harmonic balancer was torn apart and fell off, this is the same 2.4 turbo diesel motor that the new defender has in it so keep an eye on it and ask the dealer if they know anything about this problem the above vehicle only had 60,000 km on it. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Scallops]

Well it is and it isn't the same engine - there are differences. So issues that crop up on Transits may or may not be applicable to the LR engine. ;)

I also think it might be a long bow to draw - just because 1 transit comes in with an issue really doesn't necessarily mean that all new Defenders will be similarly effected.

[solmanic]

I agree. There are a lot of differences between the regular 2.4l Puma engine and the one Land Rover have tweaked for the new Defender. No dual mass flywheel for one. I expect we will enjoy all manner of unique problems of our own :p.

[dullbird]

but thank you for the heads up

[lambrover]

I hope all gose well then I do really like the new truck my friend had one but fell asleep at the wheel and it was a right off it was only four months old but very impressive car and running on the stock tyres it was very capable. We took the sway bars off and the ride was abit better biggest plus is more wheel travel.

[solmanic]

...my friend had one but fell asleep at the wheel ...

Now THAT wouldn't have happened in an older one :wasntme:.

[ozscott]

Harmonic balancers are one of the things that LR extensively test at Eastnor Castle in the mud pits. That is a specific requirement of LR balancers that the rubber does not delaminate with mud and grit. I doubt that the new deefer motor would not have been tested in the same way as deefers, rangies and discos have been tested over time.

Cheers

[dullbird]

where is the harmonic balancer?......as on the disco i thought it was that bloody great heavy disc on the underside of the car(near the axle), which ian smacked off roading once and we had to cut if off!! and we never put it back on again..

[Scouse]

where is the harmonic balancer?......as on the disco i thought it was that bloody great heavy disc on the underside of the car(near the axle), which ian smacked off roading once and we had to cut if off!! and we never put it back on again..In this case it is also called the front crankshaft pulley.

[Rayngie]

I happen to own one of those Transits ( same model at least ), engine runs like a dream after 100,000k's, always has done ( rubbish off road though )...done get me started on the gearbox....

Ray,

[sashadidi]

Hi I have a russian family and go back every eighteen months, get picked up from moscow by a guy who has six recent ford transits which ferry people and freight 24 hours a day between moscow and various places, aready over 250000km on:D each and comment translated is, these engines will last until my sons time, never any problems at all!!! interesting!!!

[Scallops]

Hi I have a russian family and go back every eighteen months, get picked up from moscow by a guy who has six recent ford transits which ferry people and freight 24 hours a day between moscow and various places, aready over 250000km on:D each and comment translated is, these engines will last until my sons time, never any problems at all!!! interesting!!!

I agree - it's a brilliant engine - perfect for the Defender.

[Bigbjorn]

I agree - it's a brilliant engine - perfect for the Defender.

An anaemic piddly little 2.4 litre from a plumbers van. Typical English automotive design. Why will Poms not learn to stick a decent size egine into vehicles? Start with 4 or 5 litres and give the beast some grunt.

[dullbird]

An anaemic piddly little 2.4 litre from a plumbers van.
Typical English automotive design. Why will Poms not learn to stick a decent size egine into vehicles? Start with 4 or 5 litres and give the beast some grunt.


think we have been over this so many times.....these cars are designed for europe not australia..:p

people have 1. no need for big engined cars over there
2. they cant afford to fuel big engined cars
3. the bigger the engine the more road tax you pay

and to awnser your quote yes very much so it is british through and through but you still buy them dont you:D

being as though australia is such a small percentage of the consumer market for Land Rover, Me thinks they are going to design for the majority not the minority

[spudboy]

And who's laughing in this day and age of ridiculous fuel prices? Not the big engined Cruiser or Nissan drivers I can tell you.

These 'little' engines do a fantastic job at lugging a round a couple of tonnes of 4WD most economically.

[PAT303]

And who's laughing in this day and age of ridiculous fuel prices? Not the big engined Cruiser or Nissan drivers I can tell you.

These 'little' engines do a fantastic job at lugging a round a couple of tonnes of 4WD most economically.

That is a bullseye spudboy.Go and read some of the other forums on the net and read all the winging about fuel comsumption.One minute they are saying you need a big engine for Oz,the next there saying they only do 90 to try and save fuel.How many LR owners have driven jap cars and vise versa?.It's like HSV bomberdoor v's WRX,the holden has the power but the suby has the performance. Pat

[solmanic]

Just did 3500 highway/freeway km to the snow and back and I have to say, the "little" 2.4l TDCi pulls better than most. In 6th gear up the hill on the F3 after Moonie Moonie you wouldn't know it wasn't a 4l 6cylinder under the bonnet! In fact there were countless occasions that I would pull out to overtake and have to watch out for the speed since it would accelerate so much faster than the Td5.

[Scallops]

An anaemic piddly little 2.4 litre from a plumbers van. Typical English automotive design. Why will Poms not learn to stick a decent size egine into vehicles? Start with 4 or 5 litres and give the beast some grunt.

Where have you driven this engine, Brian? I've driven one all around Australia - through 2 deserts and on roads that barely fit that description. Reckon I'm qualified to comment on this engine - it's a pearler. 9.8l / 100km with 750kg inside and stuff all over the roof - never had an issue with not enough grunt - try getting such a result from a 4-5 l engine. Did you feel the same way about the TD5?

[mark2]

We have a VW transporter dual cab here at work with a small diesel (I dont know any more about it:eek:) but it out performs the old tech 4.2 intercooled turbo Patrol ute by a long way, and thats when its carrying more weight (tray is rated at 2 tonnes!) Fuel economy is heaps better, even when being thrashed by the apprentices. It tows a loaded car trailer like a dream! The tradies keep raving about how well it goes.

I recall an automatic Jackaroo we had a couple of years ago with an Isuzu 3.0 liter diesel. That thing would sit on 150 km/h all day if you wanted and still give half decent economy. Probably wouldnt go quite as well in a Defender as the aerodynamics are worse.

I'm now convinced that modern smallish diesels can be OK in a 4WD as long as the reliability is there. Time will tell, but at least the 2.4 has plenty of history in the transits.

[lokka]

Where have you driven this engine, Brian? I've driven one all around Australia - through 2 deserts and on roads that barely fit that description. Reckon I'm qualified to comment on this engine - it's a pearler. 9.8l / 100km with 750kg inside and stuff all over the roof - never had an issue with not enough grunt - try getting such a result from a 4-5 l engine. Did you feel the same way about the TD5?

Yep no probs 4bd1 may be slow but will be there at the end and will still be going strong even if all thats left to drive it are roaches :D:D:D

[dullbird]

Yep no probs 4bd1 may be slow but will be there at the end and will still be going strong even if all thats left to drive it are roaches :D:D:D

are but what he porbaqbly didn't say was that he did most of his journey at 120kph and could still nod off if he wasn't careful, still being able to talk to his missus without shouting helped him stay awake:D

[lokka]

are but what he porbaqbly didn't say was that he did most of his journey at 120kph and could still nod off if he wasn't careful, still being able to talk to his missus without shouting helped him stay awake:D

Pfft havent seen a 4BD1 powered rover yet struggle to get up to and over 120KPH Towing/fully laden or empty and there far from noisy i rekon there fairly quiet actualy and they do it with beta economy than the newer ones ya just cant beat a aussie built 110 with the 4BD1 all ya can do is turbo it and make it beta :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[dullbird]

what fuel eco do you get?

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Pfft havent seen a 4BD1 powered rover yet struggle to get up to and over 120KPH Towing/fully laden or empty and there far from noisy i rekon there fairly quiet actualy and they do it with beta economy than the newer ones ya just cant beat a aussie built 110 with the 4BD1 all ya can do is turbo it and make it beta :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

I take on board that those were really good engines. I also believe that the 200/300tdi's were really good too. I personally think that a chipped td5 is also really good motor. However the usual crew give it a hard time, but the fact is it's a pretty well known unit now and given these points can provide excellent service. All motors have their good and bad points.

As such, I think the engine in the new defender was a really good choice by LR/ford. I'm sure there will be problems that we will discover in time, but that's life and it isn't a reason not to move forward in the world.

I'm sure it will help a lot of people see beautiful places, and do lots of other more mundane things and that's what LR is all about.

[lokka]

average was 9-10L per 100k but on longer runs it was possibale to get under the 9L per 100k and thats with a LT95 4spd running 235/85/16 tyres and top speed was 140KPH and it is a s3 stage 1 much the same as a county realy just on a leaf chasis its now retired due to body and chasis cancer but it will live again one day :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[dullbird]

average was 9-10L per 100k but on longer runs it was possibale to get under the 9L per 100k and thats with a LT95 4spd running 235/85/16 tyres and top speed was 140KPH and it is a s3 stage 1 much the same as a county realy just on a leaf chasis its now retired due to body and chasis cancer but it will live again one day :cool::cool::cool::cool:

ok so that was a fairly bold statment that the fuel eco was better:p..as you will find its the same;)......and dont all defenders run 235/85's as standard? or have i got that wrong (not being smart but i thought that is what all defenders run)
fair enough on the 4 speed though thats good going.

[dmdigital]

That's something that hasn't come up yet, the 6 speed box in the Puma, short throw between gears, is brilliant.

[dullbird]

now see i disagree i hate first to second....it's too short especially when you slowed right down to take off again sometimes its easy to go a speed thats to fast for first but a little to slow for second, needs a gear in between i reckon

geez could you imagine a 7 speed box :D you would be like "love can you move your knee i need to put it in reverse" lol

[PAT303]

now see i disagree i hate first to second....it's too short especially when you slowed right down to take off again sometimes its easy to go a speed thats to fast for first but a little to slow for second, needs a gear in between i reckon

geez could you imagine a 7 speed box :D you would be like "love can you move your knee i need to put it in reverse" lol

Try driving a Prado,the stick is spring loaded so you can't get any gear you want.Going from 6 to 5 the springs push it to 3rd giving you whiplash and reverse is somewhere over near first so you get first or reverse,It is funny watching people look over thier shoulder to go back and the thing goes foreward. Pat

[CaverD3]

An anaemic piddly little 2.4 litre from a plumbers van. Typical English automotive design. Why will Poms not learn to stick a decent size egine into vehicles? Start with 4 or 5 litres and give the beast some grunt.


"There is no substute for cubic inches."
Really out of date attitude. Modern diesels get a lot out of much less capacity.
e.g. 4.5 litre V8 LC200 gets peeky 640 Nm with twin turbos. LR 3.7 litre V8 gets 640 Nm with a single turbo.
European diesels are way ahead of the Japs and the 4.5 TD V8 is already burning out valves. :o

[dullbird]

Try driving a Prado,the stick is spring loaded so you can't get any gear you want.Going from 6 to 5 the springs push it to 3rd giving you whiplash and reverse is somewhere over near first so you get first or reverse,It is funny watching people look over thier shoulder to go back and the thing goes foreward. Pat

actaully its funny you should say that, althought selecting gear is fairly easy whe we first got the car the centering spring(not actually sure what its called) was quite strong until we got used to it, so if you were slow changing gear it would flick into neutral on your way through the change and you would forget which path you were taking to which gear:D.
doesn't happen anymore now we are used to it

[Bush65]

I take on board that those were really good engines. I also believe that the 200/300tdi's were really good too. I personally think that a chipped td5 is also really good motor. However the usual crew give it a hard time, but the fact is it's a pretty well known unit now and given these points can provide excellent service. All motors have their good and bad points.

As such, I think the engine in the new defender was a really good choice by LR/ford. I'm sure there will be problems that we will discover in time, but that's life and it isn't a reason not to move forward in the world.

I'm sure it will help a lot of people see beautiful places, and do lots of other more mundane things and that's what LR is all about.
I generally agree with most of this, but saying 300Tdi's are really good is a bit further than I would go.

Since I don't have experience with the puma engine, and have only seen reports, I tend to disagree that the reason for using this engine was to move forward in the world.

The V6 and V8 diesels have been used for a few years in disco 3 and later range rovers, so I doubt it was moving on, to use the (if I recall correctly) older transit engine in the defender.

IMHO it is emissions regulations that brought on the engine changes - otherwise they would still have the 300Tdi.

[lambrover]

I had the same problem with my mates new defender I kept going from first to 4th the spring is quite strong but got used to it. if you look at the torque figures and that of the cruiser straight six and that was the engine of the time when rover had the td5 not much difference but miles better fuel consumption, todays diesels are very good and in europe they are leading in the designs they where running common rail for years over there before we got them as our fuel quality was improved to meet emissions standards it has allowed us to run common rail over here.

[dullbird]

I generally agree with most of this, but saying 300Tdi's are really good is a bit further than I would go.

Since I don't have experience with the puma engine, and have only seen reports, I tend to disagree that the reason for using this engine was to move forward in the world.



The V6 and V8 diesels have been used for a few years in disco 3 and later range rovers, so I doubt it was moving on, to use the (if I recall correctly) older transit engine in the defender.

IMHO it is emissions regulations that brought on the engine changes - otherwise they would still have the 300Tdi.


yeh i reckon thats part of it....but alot of people will think that the puma is moving on from the 300tdi, it may not be moving on fomr the v6 and v8 in the D3 but then the D3 engine would never of made it into a defender as that would then devalue the D3 which is one of land rovers best selling cars i think.

and what people forget i think is that landrover i believe never had the money to develope a new engine for the defender.....so it was buy what money will allow or can the defender altogether.
they have to be seen to be developing, leaving the TD5 there wasn't going to do it cant imagine anyone paying the money for a new defender just for a new dash and a 6 speed box with just a td5 in it.

[PAT303]

I generally agree with most of this, but saying 300Tdi's are really good is a bit further than I would go.

Since I don't have experience with the puma engine, and have only seen reports, I tend to disagree that the reason for using this engine was to move forward in the world.

The V6 and V8 diesels have been used for a few years in disco 3 and later range rovers, so I doubt it was moving on, to use the (if I recall correctly) older transit engine in the defender.

IMHO it is emissions regulations that brought on the engine changes - otherwise they would still have the 300Tdi.

Whats wrong with the 300?.All it needs is the puma VVT. Pat

[mcrover]

Whats wrong with the 300?.All it needs is the puma VVT. Pat

Just a tweak and it is plenty good enough for most people but the VVT would be nice.

Problem with the TD5 is it's intricate electronics which were designed a long time ago when electronics were still unreliable.

Yes people have worked around these problems but the solutions are not always cheap.

The core engine is good but the main issue with 4wd's has always been with electrical systems.........and without electricity you have no electrickery.

Renders one of these new fangled gadgets back to being a pile of metal and plastic sitting on the side of the road until you can get a electrics happening again which normally means replacing something due to the non servicable electronic parts.

Doesnt matter what motor it is, if there is no volts there is no go no matter the brand, size, type or colour.

As far as the choice of engine goes, there has been very few reports of trouble with the TDV6 in the D3 and I would have loved to see that engine in the more basic Deefa drivetrain but I think the Puma engine is a good choice.

Aussie post has been thrashing them for a long time and they take a bit to break them, there will always be teething problems with a new model, I think all of you guys that have bought them are brave but I suppose someone has to or else they wont make them anymore.

Everything is going that way so Im just stock pileing parts for my D1 300Tdi and will be keeping that for as long as I can.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'm afraid the reason of "product differentiation" will mean you will never see the d3 engines in the defender. That's the same reason why the td5 was nobbled in the defender as opposed to the discovery.

It was my understanding that Ford were intending to finish the defender in 2011 and replace it with the cheaper/"more defenderish" version of the D3, and that the "puma" would see the defender out.

I have no idea what will happen now Tata own it.

[Bush65]

Whats wrong with the 300?.All it needs is the puma VVT. Pat


Just a tweak and it is plenty good enough for most people but the VVT would be nice.
...
They are good enough for most, and better with a VVT. But I don't rate them really good (even with a VVT).

I had a 300Tdi with VVT in my rangie. Now in the process of swapping in a honest, really good diesel. And VVT's are so 2000, so that had to go as well :twisted:


....
Doesnt matter what motor it is, if there is no volts there is no go no matter the brand, size, type or colour.
...
I have a 4BD1-T that disagrees with you - would need to be bump started though ;)

[mcrover]

They are good enough for most, and better with a VVT. But I don't rate them really good (even with a VVT).

I had a 300Tdi with VVT in my rangie. Now in the process of swapping in a honest, really good diesel. And VVT's are so 2000, so that had to go as well :twisted:


I have a 4BD1-T that disagrees with you - would need to be bump started though ;)

4BD1's are so 1980's......:p

I was talking about electronically controlled injection/comon rail.......:eek:

I thought if you read the post you would have seen that.

[slug_burner]

didn't we already do the poll to determine what type of fault had left you stranded. From memory it was not electronic problems that rated highest.

I am sure that there are some steam engines around that will just not stop but it doesn't mean I want to have one under my bonnet.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

didn't we already do the poll to determine what type of fault had left you stranded. From memory it was not electronic problems that rated highest.

I am sure that there are some steam engines around that will just not stop but it doesn't mean I want to have one under my bonnet.

Exactly! LR have been managing electronic control of engines since 82. It's really not a problem.

[PAT303]

Exactly! LR have been managing electronic control of engines since 82. It's really not a problem.

A mate of mine was a road service driver for the NRMA for years and only a small amount of call-outs were for breakdowns.The most common were headlights left on,locking the keys in,running out of fuel and flat tyres. Pat

[lokka]

They are good enough for most, and better with a VVT. But I don't rate them really good (even with a VVT).

I had a 300Tdi with VVT in my rangie. Now in the process of swapping in a honest, really good diesel. And VVT's are so 2000, so that had to go as well :twisted:


I have a 4BD1-T that disagrees with you - would need to be bump started though ;)

Gday john good to see you chime in and stir the pot :D:D:D

[DirtyDawg]

think we have been over this so many times.....these cars are designed for europe not australia..:p

people have 1. no need for big engined cars over there
2. they cant afford to fuel big engined cars
3. the bigger the engine the more road tax you pay

and to awnser your quote yes very much so it is british through and through but you still buy them dont you:D

being as though australia is such a small percentage of the consumer market for Land Rover, Me thinks they are going to design for the majority not the minority


All the money saved from the above can go to a monthly family treat a "Steak" each:D:D