Low profile tyres

[JDNSW]

An encounter I had yesterday shows why low profile tyres have no place on four wheel drives (or indeed any cars out of the city).

I had taken my trailer to a mechanic for a pink slip yesterday. When I arrived he was contemplating the LH rear wheel of his ute, so I asked him why. (like many "country lads" he drives a trayback Holden ute with a five post bull bar)

It seems that last week he fitted it with new wheels and tyres - fancy alloy wheel with 35% profile 18" tyres. On the way home on Sunday night, after the rain, he found, too late to slow, that the point where the bitumen ends on the road was now a six inch sharp edged step. This resulted in bent rims on two of his new wheels. He is not happy, and but does rather graphically make the point that while low profile tyres may have their points on bitumen, there are even many public roads where they can be an expensive liability, let alone off road. (The tyres seem to have been undamaged, although there could be hidden damage.)

John

[Redback]

Low profile tyres on a country ute:Rolling:

Not only silly, but you can't fit Kenworth or CAT mud flaps to it:D

Baz.

[Scouse]

I saw the most ridiculous rims on a Land Rover yesterday.
A supercharged Sport with 24" rims & 30% profile tyres. The rim was 2cm off the road :eek:.

As the owner left the workshop, he floored it & would have easily hit 120-140kph in the 50kph zone here.

[waynep]

I'ts interesting to note that on the DVD that came with the last month's issue of 4WD Action Mag, there's a segment on tyres. I think it was sponsored by a tyre company, but they were actually claiming that low profile tyres and large rims are in some ways better than high profile for off road use.

I can't remember what the rationale for that was, but it goes against everything I have been taught.

I might take another look and transcribe some of it.

[Cameron_Def]

I saw the most ridiculous rims on a Land Rover yesterday.
A supercharged Sport with 24" rims & 30% profile tyres. The rim was 2cm off the road :eek:.

As the owner left the workshop, he floored it & would have easily hit 120-140kph in the 50kph zone here.

ok I call BS here ..

Facts

1. Its a landrover
2. No Landrover, when floored does anything but make noise, then Chunk Chunk, change gear, chunk chunk change gear, and your now doing 80 :)
3. Maybe I am used to a defender, but I need to change gears 4 times to get to 100
4. Landrover doing 140 .. with out a 600 down hillrun ?
5. I have not seen pigs fly across my window yet


:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p :wasntme:

[DiscoStew]

ok I call BS here ..

Facts

1. Its a landrover
2. No Landrover, when floored does anything but make noise, then Chunk Chunk, change gear, chunk chunk change gear, and your now doing 80 :)
3. Maybe I am used to a defender, but I need to change gears 4 times to get to 100
4. Landrover doing 140 .. with out a 600 down hillrun ?
5. I have not seen pigs fly across my window yet


:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p :wasntme:


Maybe he had Hiclones fitted

[drivesafe]

As the owner left the workshop, he floored it & would have easily hit 120-140kph in the 50kph zone here.
Love it, 0 to 100 in 7 seconds




ok I call BS here ..

Facts

1. Its a land rover
2. No Land rover, when floored does anything but make noise, then Chunk Chunk, change gear, chunk chunk change gear, and your now doing 80 :)
3. Maybe I am used to a defender, but I need to change gears 4 times to get to 100
4. Land rover doing 140 .. with out a 600 down hillrun ?
5. I have not seen pigs fly across my window yet


:D:p:D:p:D:p:D:p :wasntme:
Not if it’s an auto ( the only way RRS come )




It's interesting to note that on the DVD that came with the last month's issue of 4WD Action Mag, there's a segment on tyres. I think it was sponsored by a tyre company, but they were actually claiming that low profile tyres and large rims are in some ways better than high profile for off road use.

I can't remember what the rationale for that was, but it goes against everything I have been taught.

I might take another look and transcribe some of it.

I have low profile and agree with John, absolute pain in the but for off road use. :twisted:

[Slunnie]

Horses for courses.

I'd run low profile on the country roads. Actually, if you look at the cars around here, so many of them do. The low profile tyres halp plant them to the road with extra traction and stability.

I would go so far as to say thankfully cars are not on high profile tyres anymore. I've got no doubt that good tyres have saved a lot of accidents, especially when you throw a swerve into the equation.

[Blknight.aus]

the only advantage low profile tyres have in off road conditions is on hardpack pea gravel and dry hard clay.

but they are soooo much like being on bitumen that you cant really call it off road.

they also have the advantage that you dont have to lift the vehicle as much with the jack when you get a flat and providing the rim is true they're a doddle to seat and balance.

[mcrover]

Horses for courses.

I'd run low profile on the country roads. Actually, if you look at the cars around here, so many of them do. The low profile tyres halp plant them to the road with extra traction and stability.

I would go so far as to say thankfully cars are not on high profile tyres anymore. I've got no doubt that good tyres have saved a lot of accidents, especially when you throw a swerve into the equation.

Slunnie, im going to nick name you 50/50, as I only agree with you 50% of the time :p

The main thing that would save a lot of accidents would be to slow down a bit on country roads.

It gets my goat (polite term) when I come around a corner at 60 to 70kmh on a loose gravel road and theres a Pajdo coming around the corner at 100kmh in the middle.

Yeah it may feel safe when you have the whole road to slide around on but you still hit things just as hard if not harder when you stuff up.

I cant say I have experience with drivning on low profile tyres on a 4wd other than in a 2003 RRS which came with something like 20" 35 profile lucker bands on it and I thought the ride was a bit stiff but it mat have been the setting or something that the owner had it on so probably not much to do with the tyres.

[Slunnie]

Slunnie, im going to nick name you 50/50, as I only agree with you 50% of the time :p

The main thing that would save a lot of accidents would be to slow down a bit on country roads.

It gets my goat (polite term) when I come around a corner at 60 to 70kmh on a loose gravel road and theres a Pajdo coming around the corner at 100kmh in the middle.

Yeah it may feel safe when you have the whole road to slide around on but you still hit things just as hard if not harder when you stuff up.

I cant say I have experience with drivning on low profile tyres on a 4wd other than in a 2003 RRS which came with something like 20" 35 profile lucker bands on it and I thought the ride was a bit stiff but it mat have been the setting or something that the owner had it on so probably not much to do with the tyres.

Difference of opinion makes the world go around. :D

To be honest though, when I see a statement that is falsifiable... then I often take on the challenge because it sometimes scares me at the self centeredness of opinion and at time hypocrasy. The above statement was one of those - not have a go at John at all, but just the statement. By challenging the statement, hopefully it makes people think, irrespective of wht their personal views may be.

I see the above as a statement that is challenging, and I do believe it is horses for courses. Interestingly, the Commodore will only now come in high profile (relative term) tyres in the base V6, everything else is low profile to make the car handle and for tyres that are able to cope with the cars potential. It has other benefits also such as traction and precision. So in that respect low profile tyres do have a place on the roads that they are probably actually most useful for.

Throwing it out there that John Deere dented 2 rims and so low profile tyres have no place outside of the city is as insane as saying that bullbars should be banned from citys, or 4WD's should also be banned etc etc etc when in fact there may very well be extenuating circumstances that require them to be in there.

Interestingly, I saw the below pic on Overlander forums... and thought that high profile tyres should be banned from open roads. Its an open statement that gets thrown around without value in my opinion. The guy that smashed the car below in reality came around a corner too quick, and slowing down may have saved this incident, along with a whole range of other factors, but its also not a reason to say that high profile tyres, or Barina's, or white cars, or P platers etc shouldn't be allowed on open roads.

I agree with you though, to slow down when things are sketchy... but also, as much as we hate to think it, not all situations that present are controlled by us or the speed that we drive at, such as that rabbit, roo or cow that jumps out in front of you, the oncoming car veering into your lane and as slow as you're driving there needs to be a safe performance margin in the car to effect an evasive reaction without coming unstuck... no car accident is planned and careful driving isn't always the answer, something perhaps that the yanks are not aware of yet, so there is always the need for ABS, SRS, seat belts, insurance etc.

Anyway, I'm just looking at the flip side as usual... I do run high profile tyres on my own vehicle anyway... 285/75's and bigger.



http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3084/wholecar1yo1.jpg

[mcrover]

Yeah my 50/50 coment stands.

The thing is that yes it's stupid to just ban these dumb rediculas wheels in just the country areas so they should be banned in all places other than a race track where they run in most cases (such as F1 and V8 supercars) 50% profile.

Who here can ohnestly say that they can drive their car (series landrover not included) to it's performance limit.

There are a quite a few guys on here that could ohnestly answer yes to that question and I can ohnestly say that im not one of them.

This is the reason that there are speed limits and road rules that we should all follow.

I know it is a pipe dream but if people followed the rules just a little more then it would probably save a heap of lives and injuries on the road.

You can put protection in cars such as ABS, airbags, traction control or active stability control but this in a lot of cases just means that people are more likely to drive beyond their ability rather than making the car safer.

That picture is a prime expample and you said it yourself, speed experience may have made a difference..........I would say if he had slowed down for the corner then he wouldnt have hit the tree.

In the case of an animal strike, I regularly drive the Melba Hwy at night and between Dixons Crk and Yea there seems to be more wombats than any where else in Australia some night and knowing that I slow down and keep a sharp eye on the road even though I could straddle them, you dont want to then get flipped when the back wheel hits it and so I chose to be able to stop rather than risk straddling them but traveling at 120kmh, you would be on top of it before you even noticed it was there, I know I have done it and there is nothing worse than the feeling of total loss of control while heading toward a tree, thankfully I missed.

It may be that I have learned these thing from my own stupidity but if someone reads this and says......well I might try and do that, it may just possibly save them from having an unplanned event like an car accident.

The fact is still true though, the faster your going the harder you hit so if you make cars that can corner faster and sharper then people will use this and will hit things harder.

I know plenty of people will debate most of this but that fact will always ring true.

Regardless of weather the bloke who's on the wrong side of the road or it's a tree, if he's doing 100 and your doing 60 when you hit, thats an impact of 160kmh, (probably no survivors) butif you both hit at 60kmh (120kmh impact) then there is a possibility of surviving and slower again, then more and more chance of surviving.

Yes ABS etc will improve stopping distances but the initial speed your traveling at is your first port of call in the control stakes, control that and then the rest well may possibly wont matter anymore due to you havnt lost control and youve been able to avoid the idiot on the other side of the road as well as the kangaroo that hopped out in front of you.

[big guy]

What a bees nest!

Low profile is for sports and performance cars on bituman. No question.

They profide a bigger footprint hence better roadholding, braking and less roll hence better cornering ability. Should the driver be able to drive in a manner demanded at the time.

Lets not forget the speed limit.

Off road there is no room for Jokers on low profile or 22inch rims.
That's just poser stuff.

The RRS is great on road and yes it can go off the bituman but who would take it over rocks or something remotely challenging.

Give the low profile a rest.

There is not a single bushy out there with them nor will there ever be.

Imagine pulling up at some remote location and asking for a spare.
as soon as one opens their mouth and says 245/40/19 or similar they will be on the ground laughing with their legs in the air.

Be fun to see though.

[Slunnie]

I agree but they used to say that about 16" tyres too.

[JDNSW]

Horses for courses.

I'd run low profile on the country roads. Actually, if you look at the cars around here, so many of them do. The low profile tyres halp plant them to the road with extra traction and stability.

I would go so far as to say thankfully cars are not on high profile tyres anymore. I've got no doubt that good tyres have saved a lot of accidents, especially when you throw a swerve into the equation.

I think you are over rating the advantage of low profile tyres. Certainly they sharpen up the handling a little, but most drivers rarely if ever get that close to an accident due to reaching handling limits anyway. They are usually either well inside the limits or way outside them. There are a few drivers who habitually drive right on the limit, but they usually use all of the extra handling given by the better tyres so as to keep the margin at nearly nothing - and usually have a strained relation with their insurer.

Just to put it in perspective, in over fifty years of having a licence, and doing a lot more than the Australian average mileage in most of those years, with a good mix of city, country and offroad driving over the years, I have had precisely three accidents - none of which were related to tyres - One was my fault - not paying enough attention and ran into the car in front, one the bloke behind was not paying enough attention ..... both in bumper to bumper stop start traffic, one in Brisbane, the other in Melbourne, and the third, a woman drove through a stop sign into the side of me - tyres irrelevant there - she didn't even try to stop or dodge, and I had stopped. And up to about 1970, mostly on crossplies. And almost all of it on high profile tyres.

I have no problem with people who want to run low profile tyres - they have the advantages of better brake cooling, a slight advantage in handling, but at the cost of a rougher ride in most cases, and an increased susceptibility to damage on rough roads. Which is the most important factor is up to the individual, but I thought it worth pointing out the drawbacks of low profile tyres for what is, after all, a forum largely for those interested in offroad vehicles.

I would also comment on the attitude of taking every small advantage in reducing the accident risk. With the road death rate now way below the suicide rate - perhaps the emphasis is being placed in the wrong area. And the data in any case does not really support any vehicle equipment or type as being significant risk factors compared to alcohol (and possibly drugs, but there is not much data) and road conditions.


John

[roverrescue]

"With the road death rate now way below the suicide rate - perhaps the emphasis is being placed in the wrong area."

Hear hear John...... hear hear.

S

[Bigbjorn]

The manager of our local tyre service told me he wishes manufacturers would stop fitting the super low profile tyres. He says these tyres are all sticky high performance compounds, usually fitted to high performance cars whose owners give them a good bit of stick. He says the tyre life of these is 10,000-15,000 k's and if you get 20,000 you have done well. The owners come to him for a relacement set bitching and moaning about the short life, and abuse him when he quotes them for a new set. He tells them "don't blame me, you bought it". These tyres are mostly expensive, often $600 each and up. Some are $1000. Some are specific to a make/model, and others specific to fitment, front, back, drive, steer, direction of rotation etc. Conversely he says they sell a lot of replacement wheels as a lot of owners get a flat and don't realise it as the car barely drops due to the low profile, so they keep driving on the flat tyre until the tyre and rim are totally destroyed.