TD5 Boost Limit Box group buy

[B-A-S]

Hi all

Im doing a group buy on 10 of the TD5 Boost Limit Box's i sell for forum members in conjunction with Total Rover Tech.
Again as in the EGR kits, this product is manafactured in the UK by my company and sold to many of the well known landrover tuning names that advertise here.

The final price will be available and updated in this thread very soon,
Mike is hopefully working on the GBP to Aus Dollar price conversion as we speek.


TD5 Booster
The Td5 in standard form responds well to basic performance remap tuning.
Give it a larger hi flow intercooler and it will give even more power still
But even with these fitted you will only have the standard 14.7psi boost available from the turbo in its standard setting and so will never release the FULL potential of your larger intercooler chip or remap.

It is possible to mechanicly increase the turbo boost pressure to give more power and torque but this has its own problems attached in respect that the ECU will shut down at a point thinking you are over boosting,
This clever little box will allow you to run a higher boost pressure without the problem of limp home mode.

The effects of fitting this andadjusting the boost pressure mechanicly are obvious from the moment you start to drive.
The car will feel more responsive from a lower rpm and will help to provide a smooth spread of power.
Increasing pressure could also help eliminate exhaust smoke on the stronger remaped or chipped cars..

This device is housed in an extruded aluminum case and uses original land rover type connectors to ensure a perfect fit.
It's also 99% waterproof so can be used in the most extreme off road situations!

The installation is a simple 3 wire installation as seen in the document provided.http://www.bellautoservices.co.uk/pdf/td5booster.pdf

[Slunnie]

What boost will this unit allow before the engine limits boost?

[B-A-S]

What boost will this unit allow before the engine limits boost?

The box will allow you to run any boost you require,althow i only recomend 17.5-18psi max as there are other limiting factors on the TD5 engine that will cause problems if more than that is run continuously.


Regards Pete

[Graeme]

The box will allow you to run any boost you require,althow i only recomend 17.5-18psi max as there are other limiting factors on the TD5 engine that will cause problems if more than that is run continuously.


Regards Pete
As the TD5 in the D2 already allows about 19psi due to the ecu controlling the boost modulator, how can this device be of any benefit on such a vehicle?

[B-A-S]

The D2 running the modulator allows a combined atmospheric and charge pressure of upto 242Kpa to be seen in the inlet manifold for no more than 400ms before it gives limp boost and fuel cut which is 10Kpa and 20Mg of fuel at the same time as running a base maf reading of 100Kpa which is actualy atmospheric pressure.

BUT it ONLY allows this if controled/made by its self in certian scenarios it does not run this pressure all the time and does not allow it to be mechanicly done by a third party.

So yes you can run more boost than standard with mechanical adjustments but the side effects that happen are more than most think.

Regards Pete

[harlie]

The D2 running the modulator allows a combined atmospheric and charge pressure of upto 242Kpa to be seen in the inlet manifold for no more than 400ms before it gives limp boost and fuel cut which is 10Kpa and 20Mg of fuel at the same time as running a base maf reading of 100Kpa which is actualy atmospheric pressure.

BUT it ONLY allows this if controled/made by its self in certian scenarios it does not run this pressure all the time and does not allow it to be mechanicly done by a third party.

So yes you can run more boost than standard with mechanical adjustments but the side effects that happen are more than most think.

Regards Pete


I can definitely verify that statement. After a new fuel map was loaded my car (Disco TD5 Auto) actually had less get up and go than standard. :eek:



Would appear that the increase boost of the new fuel map was triggering this "self detune" point. I was recording around the 240kpa quite quickly then performance was very flat at best. After lengthening the waste gate control rod it’s back around 225-230 and now goes unbelievably well, so mechanical adjustments will make it worse once that magical point is crossed. My understanding is that The Boost Box modifies the signal returned to the ECU from the sensor essentially forcing the ECU into thinking there is still not enough boost.


I originally shortened the waste gate control rod after reading some misguided advice on this forum – how much trouble and time did that waste! :soapbox:


And before someone asks - I am NOT associated in any way with Pete (B-A-S) or Mike (Tombie2), I’m just one very satisfied (overpowered) TD5 customer.



Regards Craig

[Graeme]

The D2 running the modulator allows a combined atmospheric and charge pressure of upto 242Kpa to be seen in the inlet manifold for no more than 400ms before it gives limp boost and fuel cut which is 10Kpa and 20Mg of fuel at the same time as running a base maf reading of 100Kpa which is actualy atmospheric pressure.

BUT it ONLY allows this if controled/made by its self in certian scenarios it does not run this pressure all the time and does not allow it to be mechanicly done by a third party.

So yes you can run more boost than standard with mechanical adjustments but the side effects that happen are more than most think.

Regards Pete
I'm referring to the factory setup where the wastegate actuator is meant to be set to 1 bar when operated directly by the turbo's boost pressure, yet the ecm allows up to approx 19psi, albeit under controlled circumstances.

[B-A-S]

I'm referring to the factory setup where the wastegate actuator is meant to be set to 1 bar when operated directly by the turbo's boost pressure, yet the ecm allows up to approx 19psi, albeit under controlled circumstances.

I fully apreciate what you are stating and it possibile from logging data from the ecu you may see some of this information but belive me side effects will be present.

I prefer not to get into a forum debate on the electronics of this car as it will take me ages to type out and explane the running stratgies of this car and the reasons for them etc etc.

All i can say in short, is what i already have and the box works and does what is says on the tin.


Some info on the standard modulator for reference if any one is intrested

The turbo wastegate modulator allows the pressure required to open the wastegate valve to be alterd so boost pressure can be controled as it desires.

This actuator requires a PWM signal from the ecu to operate correctly.
The valve operates at a fequency of less than 50Hz.

Vsat(A21 to GND) Isink=0.40A max 0.19V
Current trip level (assuming load variation of -+10% min 2.6-12A
+ve Clamp voltage@Isink=10mA (Drive Off) Max Vbatt+1.5
-Ve Clamp Isink= -10mA -1.5V


Regards Pete

[discowhite]

ive been running one of pete's units for over 12months now and i can report no dramas what so ever, extremely easy to fit also.

works really well with the IC and upgrade.

cheers phil

[Slunnie]

If at the new boost settings there is a problem, does the unit still allow the overboost protection to happen, or is this feature done away with?

[B-A-S]

Yes the engine is still protected because other components and sensors on the engine will provide faults if boost reaches more than my box allows.

Regards Pete

[Slunnie]

Yes the engine is still protected because other components and sensors on the engine will provide faults if boost reaches more than my box allows.

Regards Pete
Thanks for this Pete,

Sorry, just trying to get my head around it a bit. With the box, is it in essence something then that disables what the interupted wire does in limiting the boost in a way that sends no fault codes, or does it generate a new false signal back into the system where the max setting coming into it which the user determines is matched to an output max signal which the ECU triggers at?

If the engine overboosts for some reason, how does the engine actually know this is happening and how does it respond differently to a standard setup.

[B-A-S]

I find this question a hard one to answer because if i gave away the full understanding of the box and the TD5's elecronics then i would have to compete with other box makers as they could learn from my knowlage on the system.

There aremore than one failsafe stratgies running on the td5 engine, if one of those systems compleely fails or fails to report a another system picks up its own fault and reports it,and acts accordingly.

If massive overboost is made then the boxand others ystems respond.



Regards Pete

[gaz]

B-A-S any idea of price yet?..thanks gaz.

[Slunnie]

I find this question a hard one to answer because if i gave away the full understanding of the box and the TD5's elecronics then i would have to compete with other box makers as they could learn from my knowlage on the system.

There aremore than one failsafe stratgies running on the td5 engine, if one of those systems compleely fails or fails to report a another system picks up its own fault and reports it,and acts accordingly.

If massive overboost is made then the boxand others ystems respond.



Regards Pete
I'm trying to ascertain if it removes a failsafe or alters a failsafe, thats all. I mean LR have gone to the effort of putting that failsafe in there, what I would like to know, is with the box will that particular failsafe still work at a revised boost pressure which is just above the new higher boost pressure used but otherwise as per normal, but it sounds like it will not work at all and relies on other backup systems instead to do the job. Having a full understanding of what I'm doing to the motor is part of my decision making process of whether to throw the dice with it or not. "Yeah Slunnie don't worry it's all good mate" isn't good enough for me because I've read that statement before WRT an alloy steel manufacturing process which was infact not correct. I've also been on the back of roughly $10k in transmission work because the "Auto will be fine" and so on. "Yep, she'll be sweet" wont buy me a new motor sometime down the track if it's not - just like "the auto will be fine" didn't pay for that either. I don't mean to be a thorn, but good faith is history for me.

[B-A-S]

I fully apreciate your concerns and totaly understand your questions.
The fail safe is lifted ultimatly from the standard pressure and would cut back in around 23psi IF other systems dont do it automaticly first.

What i will never says is "It will be fine" the cosice to modify your car will always remain your responcibility and i always state any tuning done to a car could have problems, if a customer has any worries what so ever i dont recomend you do it.

Ultimatly what i make and sell is tested to the best of my abilitys but if im not fitting the product and setting it up i cant be held responsible for misuse or incorrect fitting.
When i produce a product i do my best to cover all angles regarding relilability of the product and the car its fitted to but in the unforeseen circumstance problems may happen as will all modifications.

Regards Pete

[harlie]

Q for Pete.
Is the box going to make a noticeable difference on an already Remapped (your map) car with auto. Doesn't the auto tran have a torque sensor that will communicate with the engine ECU if the output is too high? How high is that point?

I keen on the idea but I’m concerned weather its going to give me much advantage – suppose it depends on price too.

[B-A-S]

Im honesty my stage2 map is all you need on a auto , and i recomend you leave it as is.
As you say there are limiters for the auto and pushing it will only be asking for trouble.

Regards Pete

[LandyAndy]

Is it any benefit in an unmapped TD5???
IE any performance increase??
Thanks
Andrew

[B-A-S]

It will increase performance slightly but i dont normaly fit on a standard car because mixture/fueling is set already to an optiminum at the factory

We persoanly only fit when we have added boost mechanicly to a stronger chipped car to help with its performance and or correct an over fueled or smokey car.


Regards Pete

[Blknight.aus]

now yovue got me interested...

Given that the turbo is wastegated at 19 PSI as standard (at least on the Deefers) and the engine is easily capable of that without excessive risk whats the advantage of lifting it to only 18.5....

more importantly....

Define AFR...

IF your definition is the same as mine..

care to explain how you "set" the AFR of a diesel?

[B-A-S]

now yovue got me interested...

Given that the turbo is wastegated at 19 PSI as standard (at least on the Defenders) and the engine is easily capable of that without excessive risk whats the advantage of lifting it to only 18.5....

more importantly....

Define AFR...

IF your definition is the same as mine..

care to explain how you "set" the AFR of a diesel?

AFR was terminology used to try and explain.

May be it would have been better if i said adding boost can help get rid of smoke from a chipped overly diesel smokey engine loool.

On the TD5 the measured airflow amongst others is used to calculate injection ammount, so this is why i used terminology AFR or Air To Fuel ratio.

[B-A-S]

Here is an intresting post in diesel stoichiometric AFR

GM Diesel V6 for Commodore - FinalGear.com Forums (http://forums.finalgear.com/automotive-news/gm-diesel-v6-for-commodore-25626/#post640715)

And a intresting pdf here

http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/122001.pdf

[Blknight.aus]

both those links are nice and dont tell me anything I didnt already know and more to the point dont answer the question.. allow me to rephrase..

your box tricks the ECU into thinking it has less boost than its got there for letting it turn the wick up yeah

If it thinks its got less boost than its got its not going to open the wick as far as it could as it wont be reading sufficient boost pressure to allow full fuel into the system, after all that's part and parcel of why the boost pressure sense is there in the first place as it prevents polution and more importantly saves fuel,

if you have to have the ECU remapped for your little box to take full advantage, why not just remap the ECU to do what you box does in the first place?

IF your little box stops the ECU from putting the engine into a protected mode by telling the ECU lies about whats going on isnt that essentially circumventing a designed safety system? (safety as in this is what the engine can safely handle)

Isnt bypassing safety stuff generally bad?

[B-A-S]

your box tricks the ECU into thinking it has less boost than its got there.
Yes


If it thinks its got less boost than its got its not going to open the wick as far as it could as it wont be reading sufficient boost pressure to allow full fuel into the system, after all that's part and parcel of why the boost pressure sense is there in the first place as it prevents polution and more importantly saves fuel,

The box only comes into play just under the standard boost cut limit so 99% of the time the car pressure sensor is reading correct and standard figures.


if you have to have the ECU remapped for your little box to take full advantage, why not just remap the ECU to do what you box does in the first place?

I can raise or remove the limit in the ecu that the boost cut comes in the mapping but some customers dont have my maps on so i can adjust theres.


IF your little box stops the ECU from putting the engine into a protected mode by telling the ECU lies about whats going on isnt that essentially circumventing a designed safety system? (safety as in this is what the engine can safely handle)

Yes but its not actualy a bypassing or circumventing because the boost cut limit is still there its just raised slightly
,exactly the same as the pluse width modification on your chipped TD5 but who says its safe to do that ?? and that the engine can handle it.


Isnt bypassing safety stuff generally bad?
yes but its not a total bypass, a bypass would mean it was totaly removed from the system.


Regards Pete

[Blknight.aus]

Right, now Im on net with you...

what your saying earlier on and whats in your links to your page didn't quite gell with my version of the way things work, the devils in the details...

I still think that the box shouldnt be required IF your Td5 Is remapped correctly Mine pushes through to 23+psi if Im being nasty enough to it

That said If your having problems with a TD5 remap thats causing an overboost cut out then this is the box you want...


My initial thoughts were along the lines of it was a fairly simple type resistor in a box made pretty that a lot of shifty sites flog to wanna be rice boys who know no better that is just a resistor that makes the ECU think the engine is still cold so it runs the mix a bit richer. Doing this on a TD5 if you get it wrong has the potential to do very bad things.

IF its one that has a pass through for normal operation and only comes into effect when its needed then all cool. I personally still wouldnt mind an eyeball of the logic map and schematic of it just so I can satisfy myself that it does what it does in a smart way and isnt the equivelent of cutting the waste gate actuator rod on a tdi.. (seen that before)

[B-A-S]

Right, now Im on net with you...

what your saying earlier on and whats in your links to your page didn't quite gell with my version of the way things work, the devils in the details...

Im sorry if my text or explnation was misleading to you.


I still think that the box shouldnt be required IF your Td5 Is remapped correctly Mine pushes through to 23+psi if Im being nasty enough to it

Have a look at your live maf reading and inlet pressure when you are creating a measured boost of 23psi, you may be suprised.
23psi is 259Kpa and is over the ecus set limit of 242Kpa max.


That said If your having problems with a TD5 remap thats causing an overboost cut out then this is the box you want...

Thank you,
ill add to say that the map on the car is normaly irelevent to weather the needs to be limit rased or not because its normaly only when mechanical adjustments are made to the wastegate that the pressure goes over the threshold.


My initial thoughts were along the lines of it was a fairly simple type resistor in a box made pretty that a lot of shifty sites flog to wanna be rice boys who know no better that is just a resistor that makes the ECU think the engine is still cold so it runs the mix a bit richer. Doing this on a TD5 if you get it wrong has the potential to do very bad things.

No i can confrim that there is no resistors even in the curcuit,admitingly the cirucit is not very compex as circuits go but there areno resistors used at all.


IF its one that has a pass through for normal operation and only comes into effect when its needed then all cool. I personally still wouldnt mind an eyeball of the logic map and schematic of it just so I can satisfy myself that it does what it does in a smart way and isnt the equivelent of cutting the waste gate actuator rod on a tdi.. (seen that before)
The schematic is not available sorry,The box is not very complex as said and it does let about 99% of the standard readings go to the pressure sensor, it only comes into play when the sensor outs a signal very close to the boost cut level of 242kpa.

If the box is fitted to a car and NO mechanical adjustmenst are made it wont make any difference.
The box as said for people who want to run higher mechanicly adjusted boost than standard without having the problem of boost cut under load.

Regards Pete

[Blknight.aus]

Im sorry if my text or explnation was misleading to you.

Have a look at your live maf reading and inlet pressure when you are creating a measured boost of 23psi, you may be suprised.
23psi is 259Kpa and is over the ecus set limit of 242Kpa max.



according to google, my computer converter, my calculator, my tyre pressure gauge and my mobile phone converter 32psi is only 220 KPa...




The schematic is not available sorry,The box is not very complex as said and it does let about 99% of the standard readings go to the pressure sensor, it only comes into play when the sensor outs a signal very close to the boost cut level of 242kpa.


thats not the right answer dude...

In a very rare occurrence.

Im going to rebuke my stand... I don't recommend this box, IF you have over boost cutout problems. Find the actual cause and fix that instead.

I dont endorse aftermarket butchery that I cant dissect for functionality and other potential problems...

For those who would like a full explanation I am happy to do so in PM's

[B-A-S]

according to google, my computer converter, my calculator, my tyre pressure gauge and my mobile phone converter 32psi is only 220 KPa...


Yes it is.

you said you were running 23Psi which is 158.5794Kpa !!!
PLUS atmospheric pressure of 100Kpa
This equals 258.5794Kpa which is over the 242Kpa ecu limit.

And yes before you state it 242Kpa minus 100Kpa atmospheric = 142Kpa or 20.59536Psi.
So why do i sell the box to help you run a steady 18psi if the limit in the ecu is 20.59536Psi.
Answer = because you cant run it long eniough without boost cut

Now you have me confused to which pressure you are actualy running.

Re the PM statement , post your explnation here since you braught the subject up.

[B-A-S]

thats not the right answer dude...
For those who would like a full explanation I am happy to do so in PM's

Obviousley im not going to please you no matter what answer i give because you have your own mind that maybe in your opinion far superior to the rest of us.

Give the explantion here, no need for pms.

[Slunnie]

Yes it is.

you said you were running 23Psi which is 158.5794Kpa !!!
PLUS atmospheric pressure of 100Kpa
This equals 258.5794Kpa which is over the 242Kpa ecu limit.

Now you have me confused to which pressure you are actualy running.

Re the PM statement , post your explnation here since you braught the subject up.
Does the TD5 have some type of altitude compensation or something like that? I'm just surprised it references pressure like that rather than as a pressure differential from atmospheric.

[B-A-S]

Does the TD5 have some type of altitude compensation or something like that? I'm just surprised it references pressure like that rather than as a pressure differential from atmospheric.
Yes it does.


The ambient pressure sensor gives a voltage between 0V and 5V output proportional to ambient pressure.
This is used to maintain boost pressure when changes in ambient pressure occur.
Also used to reduce the ammount of smoke produced as high altitudes.

The ambient temprature sensor which is built into the same sensor also gives a voltage between 0V and 5V proportional to ambient temprature.
This is used in the exhaust gas over temprature protection and in turbo overspeed protection strategies.

The ambient pressure and temp sensor is locatedin the airbox lid.

If the ambient temp sensor fails it defaults to 37C thus reducing exhaust gas tempratures.
If the ambient pressure sensor part fails it will default to 95/6Kpa thus lowering the allowed boost and achieving turbo protection.


Regards Pete

[LandyAndy]

Dave isnt your ECU upgrade a Toombraider job???
Im pretty sure Peter would be pretty familiar with the upgrade.
Andrew

[Blknight.aus]

since you started out talking in PSI if you look at the PSI as absolute from your first post


The box will allow you to run any boost you require,althow i only recomend 17.5-18psi max as there are other limiting factors on the TD5 engine that will cause problems if more than that is run continuously.

and thats only a paltry 2.8-3.3 Psi of boost over atmospheric pressure. which is an alarmingly low 25ish KPa advantage as an absolute pressure difference or a 125ish kpa if its a gauge reading (Im assuming it is) since the boost cut is set at 242kpa before adding your box then your only getting half way up the available boost.



Some of your information (as Ive said earlier) does not jell with the info I have which includes the Raves and the T4 system for doing diagnostics works.

The basics of it is this.

I dont endorse aftermarket butchery that I cant dissect for functionality and other potential problems...


The reason the ECU cuts boost is because something is overcooked your system essentially masks the symptom and not the problem. Thats always a bad thing in my books.

Because I have no idea how your box works and how it does its trickery I have no way of knowing exactly what other things it might mask or make worse. given the info youve posted up earlier off of the top of my head I can think of 4 ways of doing what you are trying to do starting out using a 555 timer to do the pulse modulation required and then just using the wiring to feed voltage in and never give the ECU anything like the info it needs all the way through to setting up a Picaxe with hand coded software that will chop the tops off of the boost signal along with ramping it smoothly to provide a cleaner ramping of the response of the fuel map to the rising boost pressure delivering more driveability or flipping that around and allowing the ECU to see more boost thus upping the fuel delivery forcing a harder turbo response but still chopping the peaks off so that you never hit the ECU's boost limitation.



If the Mike you mentioned in your first post is the same Mike that I know I'll eyeball one then.

Just for discussions sake...

If the wastegate actuator is preset at 1.305 ATM what (expressed in PSI(g) and PSI(a) )is the attainable boost pressure inside the inlet manifold excluding losses and without over spooling the turbocharger.

[B-A-S]

17.5-18psi over atmospheric pressure not including.



Pete

[B-A-S]

Some of your information (as Ive said earlier) does not jell with the info I have which includes the Raves and the T4 system for doing diagnostics works.


Sorry Dave i dont use Rave or T4 for my information regarding the Storm engine managament.

I actualy use the official 48 page documents Rave and T4 softwares information was originaly writen from.




The reason the ECU cuts boost is because something is overcooked your system essentially masks the symptom and not the problem.

Yes you are correct to an extent, BUT The problem been in this case would be that the owner has decided to mechanicly adjust boost on the wastegate.

Therefore im providing a soloution to the unnormaly mechanicaly adjusted wastegate.

[Blknight.aus]

17.5-18psi over atmospheric pressure not including.
To me your questions and answers are not atualy about product intrest, they seem and i may be wrong to be about your self and your knowlage that you want to share.
If you want to share your knowlage produce me a scema and ill produce the box for you and sell it as yours, afterall it WILL be better im sure.

Pete

Actually I have a vested interest in this product.. odds are that if a td5 with one of your boxes comes in with problems then questions will be asked in the tech forum. If I know how an added in box works I can attract or detract it from the list of potential causes of problems....

Thats why Im not reccomending it. I dont know how it works and you dont want to share your info..


The box will allow you to run any boost you require,althow i only recomend 17.5-18psi max as there are other limiting factors on the TD5 engine that will cause problems if more than that is run continuously.


Regards Pete

fair enough theres other factors that will limit the boost, what are they?


The D2 running the modulator allows a combined atmospheric and charge pressure of upto 242Kpa to be seen in the inlet manifold for no more than 400ms before it gives limp boost and fuel cut which is 10Kpa and 20Mg of fuel at the same time as running a base maf reading of 100Kpa which is actualy atmospheric pressure.

BUT it ONLY allows this if controled/made by its self in certian scenarios it does not run this pressure all the time and does not allow it to be mechanicly done by a third party.

So yes you can run more boost than standard with mechanical adjustments but the side effects that happen are more than most think.

Regards Pete

would one of those side effects of a mechanical adjustment be, say, hitting the over boost cut limit because the map sensor is detecting an overboost situation...

Isnt that what your box is supposed to prevent?

what other side effects are there of more boost within the limitations set by the original non tampered with ECU limitations?



I fully apreciate what you are stating and it possibile from logging data from the ecu you may see some of this information but belive me side effects will be present.

I prefer not to get into a forum debate on the electronics of this car as it will take me ages to type out and explane the running stratgies of this car and the reasons for them etc etc.

All i can say in short, is what i already have and the box works and does what is says on the tin.


Some info on the standard modulator for reference if any one is intrested

The turbo wastegate modulator allows the pressure required to open the wastegate valve to be alterd so boost pressure can be controled as it desires.

This actuator requires a PWM signal from the ecu to operate correctly.
The valve operates at a fequency of less than 50Hz.

Vsat(A21 to GND) Isink=0.40A max 0.19V
Current trip level (assuming load variation of -+10% min 2.6-12A
+ve Clamp voltage@Isink=10mA (Drive Off) Max Vbatt+1.5
-Ve Clamp Isink= -10mA -1.5V


Regards Pete

thats the second time you mentioned side effects and for someone who didn't want to go into technicalities typing out the op-params of a component from its data sheet seems to be getting pretty technical. As you didnt want to waste time explaining the operation strategies of the engine but did anyway, why not continue so that those who might be a bit skeptical of how your box fits into the grand scheme of things might be swayed?



Yes the engine is still protected because other components and sensors on the engine will provide faults if boost reaches more than my box allows.

Regards Pete

now thats the second time youve mentioned that theres things that arent affected by your box that protect the engine.. just for a sense of security to prove that my concept that your box might be potentially dangerous to the engine why not let us know what they are and how they will stop the engine from massive overboost.


I fully apreciate your concerns and totaly understand your questions.
The fail safe is lifted ultimatly from the standard pressure and would cut back in around 23psi IF other systems dont do it automaticly first.

What i will never says is "It will be fine" the cosice to modify your car will always remain your responcibility and i always state any tuning done to a car could have problems, if a customer has any worries what so ever i dont recomend you do it.

Ultimatly what i make and sell is tested to the best of my abilitys but if im not fitting the product and setting it up i cant be held responsible for misuse or incorrect fitting.
When i produce a product i do my best to cover all angles regarding relilability of the product and the car its fitted to but in the unforeseen circumstance problems may happen as will all modifications.

Regards Pete

hang on....

isnt 23 Psi of boost what Im running? isnt that supposed to be over what is safe to do and cant be achieved without your box fitted?


unless your setting it up? isnt it ment to be plug'n'play? what setting up can there be?

oh and hey, thats the 3rd mention of other systems that will cut the boost back anyway...

In case I didnt ask already what are those systems?

And call me a pedant if you like but if those other systems weren't reading in sync with the system that your changing wouldn't the system decide that something was not as cool as it should be and flag errors...


Just, you know, Exploring nuances.

[B-A-S]

Dave ive explained what the box does and how it works,im not going to go into what is inside or provide schemas for it,
Why should i !!. Do Motorola give me the schemas for there ecus just because id like them to? I think not.

Nor am i the forum diagnostic guru at beck and call to you, im here because i want to offer help in other posts when i want to offer it and not be forced to give it just because you say jump or make a intimidating post making me feel i have to.

About your comment on the grand scheme of things that people might be swayed, I don’t want to sway anyone into my products with words alone nor force them to buy anything from me.
As for this post i think that you have tried your hardest to jeopardize this thread and peoples understandings of the system already there fore i will now choose not to sell the box to AU customers and will leave it up to you to produce your own better box that in your mind is safer with more whistles resistors and 555 timers than mine.
Or if you feel the need don’t produce and repair the what may or may not be car faults with your T4 and Rave CD.


If you have a car that comes into your workshop that is still giving overboost and it’s got a box fitted, then the box may have failed somehow so remove it in undamaged state and ill replace it if it’s faulty.

But looking in live data and making logs you been the expert would see if the boost limit was hit so you could then make an expert decision on what the problem actually was.
If the live data logs show the boost limit is still hit then you may have a box fault,
if not then do your expert diagnostic job your self and look elsewhere in the system,
you have offended me with your postings and the way you have gone about what you have so i now feel i cant help you even if i wanted to for fear of you stating i was wrong.
You have more thinking going on than you actually let on and i feel that you are only here in this thread to try and intimidate me because you know better.

On the other factors that limit boost on fail safe strategies, look on your T4 or Rave im not here to TRY and help then get slammed back down by you just because you own a garage.
Or to have you post a reply stating im wrong or i do it wrong.

If your running a combined charge and atmospheric pressure of 258.5794Kpa you say you are,
make some live data logs your self in T4 and then you will see what goes out of scale then you will know what sensors are also boost or air related, I then wont have to try and explain and you tell me im wrong again.

Im not going to be forced by you into a full on debate about diagnostics of the td5 because this thread was not about that in the first place.

Regarding the technicalities i posted, this was to show you that you are not speaking to a monkey and i do actually know and have the data needed to back up my theories.
But in the same post it was actually answering a GENUINE question asked, and not a dig at someone you know nothing about.

I fully appreciate that you are a garage owner and have a superb understanding of the TD5 and respect that, and on the same note i don’t want to argue with you or be bouncing non constructive posts back and forth at each other just because we can, i can’t see the point.
I don’t know if ive offended you somehow and this is why you are making such a big deal of something you have no real interest in.
If you can do a better job of enabling people to run higher boost than the ecu will allow then feel free to do so.


May be you want me to post you a copy of the Thunder job engine management system data so you can read for your self its strategies ??


Ps im sorry to the rest of the forum if my attitude has come over wrong and i sincerely apologize,
The posts made by me in this thread are not normally how i would make answers, and i don’t normally post comments like i have directed at other members.
But im not going to be forum bullied or pushed around by other so-called expert members that have something to prove.
Normal question and answers are what im used to on forums, not the im better than you and you are wrong approach.

Sorry


May be some other forum members will post there findings on overboost and list its problems and standard or correct way cure without fitting a box.

Regards Pete

[discowhite]

dont worrie about it pete! there are alot of experts here.



May be some other forum members will post there findings on overboost and list its problems and standard or correct way cure without fitting a box.


as stated in my first post, there havnt been any problems with my boost box AT ALL, apart from blowing the egr/IC hose off! but i spose the gauge did hit 28ish psi and maybee i should have had 3 hose clamps not 2:eek:

i ran 26psi for 6months and loved it, but im back to 24psi as this is where i have a good deal of power and i have knocked alot of the smoke out of the system.

cheers phil

[geckos]

so are these for sale or not? still want one.

[Redback]

OK what's happening with this, has a price been agreed on yet.

Baz.

[ghand2]

Hi Tombie,
Did these items end up being available. Geoff

[Tombie]

Died a death from lack of interest.

The boxes are available though....

[stig0000]

is 24psi about the sweet spot for a td5, if there the right price id buy one;), no price has been sead tho