Series 1 Springs

[101RRS]

All the springs on my 88 have sagged - so much so that they have punched holes into the bottom of the chassis. I need to get new springs but have a complete set lying around the back yard that may be suitable with cleaning.

What I need to know is what is the distance between the centres of the spring eyes on the front and rear springs in the unloaded state. If these springs are close I will use them, if not I will look for alternatives.

Thanks

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Gary

The spring lengths on the front of the 80"(from late 1950), all 86" and all 88" right up to the end of Series 3 are the same.

Similarly for the rear springs from the 86" and 88" through end of Series 3. The issues you will have is the static load of the later springs, particularly if they have locally made replacement leaves. It may require you to remove some leaves or use later main and secondary leaves and your original tertiary etc leaves.

The following is a comparison from the SIII manual (I don't have an S1 manual at work), however the S1 have less leaves because of the lighter 2 litre engine. Although the 2 litre diesel and those with a capstan winch fitted had similar specs to the S2 and for both the S2 diesel.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/984.jpg

Diana

[101RRS]

Thanks Diana - do you know if those lengths are length of spring overall or from spring eye to eye?

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Gary

When they measure semi-eliptic springs they are measured with the spring flat and measured from eye centre to eye centre as in "B" below.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/937.jpg

(The above is for the rear springs of the 80", but the only example I have in my Photobucket.

Diana

[101RRS]

Sorry - getting confused as my springs are not flat but curved - I guess these are the specs before the steel is curved. I went out and measured my springs and it would seem that the curved overall length is 36.25". (not eye to eye)

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's correct Gary, your springs should not be flat. Flat is however the standard way they measure them. Whether they measure them before setting or flatten them out with a press or something I don't know.

What I will do, is what I should have done last night is scan the page from the SI book and post it up. You will have to wait until around 24:00 hrs though.

C ya :)
Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

86 & 88 Front
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1015.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/930.jpg

86 & 88 Rear
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/1014.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/931.jpg

Hope this helps

Diana

[101RRS]

Thanks Diana - have saved those docs for future reference - looks like my spare springs are OK - at least in the unloaded state - I will clean them up and see how they go.

Thanks

Garry

[Col.Coleman]

While on the subject, how about the specs for 107' and 109'.

My 109 has a busted rear top spring, and I need to find a replacement.

CC

[Lotz-A-Landies]

While on the subject, how about the specs for 107' and 109'.

My 109 has a busted rear top spring, and I need to find a replacement.

CC
Don't know if my interest can be stretched to 107"! :D

Front 107 & 109
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/924.jpg
The diagram for the front is the same as the 86" & 88"

Rear 107 & 109
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/925.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/926.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/927.jpg

Diana :wasntme:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Diana - have saved those docs for future reference - looks like my spare springs are OK - at least in the unloaded state - I will clean them up and see how they go.

Thanks

Garry
Garry (note correct spelling this time)

Often with S1's the reason that springs punch holes in the chassis is because the rubber bushes have gone and the S1 front shackles are too short to prevent the secondary leaf rubbing on the bottom of the chassis. Some people replace the S1 type with S2/S3 shackles which are about 9/16" longer. The problem is that it also makes the angle on the drive shaft more acute and the shaft too short, you also risk bump steer.

Diana

[101RRS]

Often with S1's the reason that springs punch holes in the chassis is because the rubber bushes have gone and the S1 front shackles are too short to prevent the secondary leaf rubbing on the bottom of the chassis. Some people replace the S1 type with S2/S3 shackles which are about 9/16" longer. The problem is that it also makes the angle on the drive shaft more acute and the shaft too short, you also risk bump steer.

Diana

Hmm interesting - I will have to replace (or at least respline) the drive shafts anyway - maybe a mod is needed to make to shaft a little longer and put on the extended shackles.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hmm interesting - I will have to replace (or at least respline) the drive shafts anyway - maybe a mod is needed to make to shaft a little longer and put on the extended shackles.

Garry
You don't have freewheeling hubs do you???? - often a cause for worn prop shaft splines.

[101RRS]

You don't have freewheeling hubs do you???? - often a cause for worn prop shaft splines.

More like 50 years of hard use and little maintenence;)

[Aaron IIA]

You don't have freewheeling hubs do you???? - often a cause for worn prop shaft splines.

How would freewheeling hubs cause a propellor shaft to wear?

Aaron.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

How would freewheeling hubs cause a propellor shaft to wear?

Aaron.
Because the shaft stays in the one position without rotating and every suspension movement of the front axle assembly creates wear in the one plain on the shaft splines as the shaft elongates and compresses and there is also brinnelling in the one plain on the universal bearing caps.

That is before we discuss the lubrication of the Railco bushes and brinnelling of the halfshaft joint.

Anyone want to buy a pair of freewheeling hubs?

Diana

[series1buff]

How would freewheeling hubs cause a propellor shaft to wear?

Aaron.

Hi Aaron,
Yes it's sort of a left field 'thing' that has been well proven over the years . Apart from the problems defined in Diana's excellent explanation, rust can form on the exposed parts of the diff as oil isnt being thrown around . I know it doesn't sound plausible, but some people have experienced it . Some daily drivers with FWH's fitted, may not see 4wd action for many years .. Have you heard of Toorak tractors ?

Mike

[Fourgearsticks]

Are freewheeling hubs worth the effort? If the hubs were engaged every now and then what would the downside of freewheeling hubs be, are they still going to wear the driveshafts? What is the milage difference with and without?

As for springs, is it just the earlier ones that have different rates or heights for either side?

[101RRS]

I had free wheeling hubs on my first series 1 about 20 years ago - I had them on the car for 9 years before I sold it - I had absolutely no issues but it was regularly used in 4wd.

I did not notice any change in fuel consumption but there was less vibration from the front end when driving along the highway with the FWH off.

This was the same with my series 3 that also had fwh.

If you want them put them on - driving is a little smoother but you do need to engage them once a week for a short period.

Garry

[JDNSW]

I would very much doubt that free wheel hubs are "worth it", although that depends how much you pay for them. I have free wheel hubs on my 2a, but they were on a (well, chassis) Landrover I bought for $15, so not exactly expensive. But I rarely unlock them, only when on long trips on the bitumen or when I need a creeper gear on a hard surface.

They would not cause problems if you turn over the works almost every time you use the vehicle. Not often noted, but you do not have to engage the hubs - just engage four wheel drive, although with hubs unlocked, definitely do not do this while moving. Although, depending on the hub, it may be a good idea to exercise the selector mechanism form time to time anyway.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Are freewheeling hubs worth the effort?

As for springs, is it just the earlier ones that have different rates or heights for either side?Neither myself or anyone I know has ever been able to give me a difference in fuel consumption with and without FWH.

Even if you do regularly engage the axles, it is likely that the prop shaft will find a natural position where resistance is least each time the FWH are disengaged and so wear the driveshaft in the same planes.

Even the Series 3 has different specifications for driver and passenger springs. There is however an argument that in Australia with cambered roads and most potholes on the edge of the bitumen, then you should use the same specification on both sides. Whether the argument is valid, is debatable because it always seems to be the drivers side that eventually rides lower.*

Diana

* perhaps we should carry a CWT bag of sand in the passengers side when there is only a driver! :D :D :D

[Fourgearsticks]

Even the Series 3 has different specifications for driver and passenger springs. There is however an argument that in Australia with cambered roads and most potholes on the edge of the bitumen, then you should use the same specification on both sides. Whether the argument is valid, is debatable because it always seems to be the drivers side that eventually rides lower.*

Diana

* perhaps we should carry a CWT bag of sand in the passengers side when there is only a driver! :D :D :D

Maybe that's a statement about drivers weights? I know there's more of me now than there was!:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Maybe that's a statement about drivers weights? I know there's more of me now than there was!:D
:Rolling: :Rolling: - How true! :D :D :D

[vin16660088]

hello, sorry for high jacking your thread, after finally getting the brakes sorted and tires back on im scratching my head as to why the Dingo is 15mm lower on the drivers side, would you think the likely cause is that ive put the front springs on the wrong sides, they were off the front axel when i purchased the 1000 piece car so ive no idea if they are on the right side or not, cheers. Anthony.

[101RRS]

Right hand (drivers side) springs are higher rated than passenger side (to account for the porkie driver). So I suspect you have the passenger spring on the drivers side and vice versa.

Garry

[Hebe]

Hi,

Where are replacement springs to be had?

[Mooloolah-Paul]

Thanks to Garrycol and Diana for the advice. My Landy sits lower on the right and I thought it was weak springs. I have never removed the springs since I bought it even when the chassis was sandblasted. So I bet the previous owner did.

I might use Diana's suggestion and carry two bags of chook food in the left when I eventually take it for roadworthy. Great idea.

[slug_burner]

Earlier reference to brinnelling I think maybe should have been to false brinnelling. False brinnelling is caused under a repetetive light load where as brinnelling is caused under a single appliacation of a large load tha exceeds material limit therefore leaving a dent or brinnell mark.

I don't know about the later springs but that used on 80" are not replaceable at your regular spring works as they only stock the spring steel in 6mm thinkness. At least that is what I found when i walked the yellowpages here in Melbourne.