Yachts

[Jamo]

Anyone here own/sail a yacht?

We're considering getting a S&S 34 sometime over the next year with a view to kitting it out for longer term cruising.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

like this?
http://yachts.apolloduck.com/image_bin/78181_1.jpg


very nice Jamo:cool:

[The ho har's]

Yes we used to go sailing every weekend we could. My girls are quite competent sailors being trained at RQYS. You do live in a great part of Aus to sail around......I can imagine sailing up the west coast aaaahhhhh but then I got rid of my ex with the boat:p Unfortunately you can't take it 4wding though which is more my passion now....my girls still sail regularly with their dad.

Mrs ho har:D

[MoodyBlue]

Jamo,
The following is going to be biased because I am into Trailer Sailers.

I would try for something over 40 foot. 34 can be a bit cramped for any thing longer than a couple of weeks.

Keel boats are usually limited in travel, unless you lots of time spare. By this I mean a weekend sail is always in a one day radius of where you moor the boat. Trailer Sailers can be towed all over the country and even used like a caravan. Trailer Sailer Site I belong to if you are interested trailersailerplace.com.au (http://www.trailersailerplace.com.au)

Our Yacht is a 26 foot Sonata 26. Most years we spend 4 weeks on the Gippsland Lakes. Others tow their boats all over the country, even to Ayers Rock!
Our 96 RR is used to tow the Sonata, which it does with ease. Our 85 RR only has a 3.5 litre and three speed so is a bit overworked with two tonnes of yacht hanging off the back.

Cheers
Jeff

[Jamo]

Thanks for the link Jeff.

But The Sparkman & Stephens 34 has a 50% ballast ratio and a really well designed hull that make it one of the best boats for ocean cruising.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

I'd like to get a trailer sailor at some point. I reckon it would be great with the kids.

[JDNSW]

Yes, I have been sailing for about forty-five years. I have a 37ft steel gaff schooner/brigantine, currently stored ashore awaiting a major refit if I ever get round to it. It was built by me thirty-five years ago, and spent twenty years mostly sailing in Bass Strait based in Western Port, but made several trips to Sydney one to Airlie Beach from there, then moved to be based in Tin Can Bay, from where we made a trip to Townsville and back. Moved ashore three years ago.

I also have a large collection of accounts of small boat voyages and maritime history.

John

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Yes, I have been sailing for about forty-five years. I have a 37ft steel gaff schooner/brigantine, currently stored ashore awaiting a major refit if I ever get round to it. It was built by me thirty-five years ago, and spent twenty years mostly sailing in Bass Strait based in Western Port, but made several trips to Sydney one to Airlie Beach from there, then moved to be based in Tin Can Bay, from where we made a trip to Townsville and back. Moved ashore three years ago.

I also have a large collection of accounts of small boat voyages and maritime history.

John

How cool is that. :D :D

[Trout]

Yes. I have a Martzcraft 35. S&S34 was on my search list but came across the martzcraft instead and was one over by the centre cockpit, space and good reputation as a safe and comfortable boat. Spent a few months up the qld coast on it and as well as the usual local trips around the bay. Sadly it now gets used as a city apartment mostly as it is located in brisbane river close to my work and I don't have the time to sail it.

After living and spending time on the matzcraft I think I would struggle with the smaller space in the S&S.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yes, I have been sailing for about forty-five years. I have a 37ft steel gaff schooner/brigantine, currently stored ashore awaiting a major refit if I ever get round to it. It was built by me thirty-five years ago, and spent twenty years mostly sailing in Bass Strait based in Western Port, but made several trips to Sydney one to Airlie Beach from there, then moved to be based in Tin Can Bay, from where we made a trip to Townsville and back. Moved ashore three years ago.

I also have a large collection of accounts of small boat voyages and maritime history.

John


How cool is that. :D :D

Very:cool:


You cant say that and not produce PICS John,,,,
:rulez:

[JDNSW]

Very:cool:


You cant say that and not produce PICS John,,,,
:rulez:


OK

John

[mns488]

Hi,

I just had 3 weeks sailing the whitsundays in aug/sep, we hired a 50' baveria (i think it was called). I'm not (or wasn't before) that into sailing but one of the best holidays ever! We have booked for next year already.

11001

Great fun!

The yacht races were happening at hamilton island as well:

1100211003

[The ho har's]

OK

John



Can I be helmsman pleeeese:D


Mrs ho har:angel:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

OK

John

all the sails I've ever seen are triangular,,

whats with the square one and the red one?

[Jamo]

Nice schooner John!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Trout, the Martzcraft is a nice boat. We'll look at all our options when the time comes, hopefully early next year some time.

I know the S&S has less space than similar length boats, but it's reputation as an offshore cruiser is exceptional. There's only the three of us, one of whom is under 90cm tall, so we should fit OK.

I suppose it all depends on what's available when we make the move.

[JDNSW]

all the sails I've ever seen are triangular,,

whats with the square one and the red one?

The first sails fitted to any boats or ships over four thousand years ago were square, or at least quadrilateral. Triangular sails first appeared only in the last couple of thousand years. These were what is called lateen rig, where the sail is supported by a very long yard along the top, supported on the mast about a third of the way from the lower end. These were used in the Mediterranean and Arab areas of influence, and were adopted together with traditional square sails to give a combined rig on northern European ships starting in the fifteenth century. By the seventeenth century the part of the lateen sail in front of the mast was dropped to give a quadrilateral sail called a "gaff" sail, and triangular sails disappeared from European vessels until well into the eighteenth century when staysails, that is sails set on sails between the masts and from the mast to the bowsprit, were introduced. The gaff topsail was introduced to fill the space above the gaff sail in the seventeenth century and was widely used into the 20th century. Of course, most ships of any size remained square rigged well into the 20th century, similar to Cook's Endeavour (which, however had one gaff sail as well as did most).

The mainsails (called Marconi or Bermudan) you are familiar with need to be much taller to give sufficient area in comparison, and these did not become feasible until wire rope was introduced in the nineteenth century, but they do, by having a higher aspect ratio, give more efficient lift when working to windward, and so, encouraged by the layout of racing circuits to favour boats that go well to windward, began to be preferred for racing yachts. But the problems with them made them very uncommon even for racing offshore until after WW2. The availability of extruded masts and continuing emphasis on windward performance has led to their becoming almost universal on mass produced yachts, and gaff rigs have become very uncommon as "one off" boats have become rare. Despite this, cruising yachts very rarely had Bermudan rigs until the late 1950s.

The advantage of gaff rig compared to Bermudan is that the rigging is less stressed, the masts are lower, giving the ability to reduce windage in extreme conditions, and making mast breakages virtually unheard of.

John

[Trout]

Nice schooner John!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Trout, the Martzcraft is a nice boat. We'll look at all our options when the time comes, hopefully early next year some time.

I know the S&S has less space than similar length boats, but it's reputation as an offshore cruiser is exceptional. There's only the three of us, one of whom is under 90cm tall, so we should fit OK.

I suppose it all depends on what's available when we make the move.

We looked at a few boats and didn't set out to get a martzcraft. As soon as we went on board we knew it was the boat for us. As I guess you will be getting an older boat like us be prepared for plenty of maintenance and repairs. I am guessing as a landie owner you will be used to that ;). I'll submitt a pic when I figure out how to attach one.

[The Mutt]

We prefer a large trailer sailor, gives quick access a lot more sailing locations, it takes time to sail to the Whitsundays from Sydney.

We have just taken delivery of a Macgregor 26X that we imported from the US.

Specs:
26 ft long
sleeps 6
has an enclosed W/C
40 HP motor (one guy in the US has fitted a 140hp, the average is a 70hp outboard)
plenty of electrics
launches in 9 inches of water
holds about 500 kg of water ballast
has a maximum 5ft 10 in headroom inside

After we have completed the Isuzu to Rangie engine conversion we will prepare the boat trailer to RTA specifications, clean up come scratches in the gelcoat and soda blast the anti-fowling from the hull.

http://www.devinetemptations.com/Coming out of Container.jpg

http://www.devinetemptations.com/Finally at Home 400-300.jpg


Glenn

[x-box]

I'd love a biggish (say 34-40) ft yacht, but there are limitations involved as mentioned in the previous replies. Maybe i'll retire on one someday.
For now i want a trailer sailer - you can tow them to a preferred destination and have fun for a weekend or couple of weeks, and then take it home. Here on the Gold Coast there are obviously a lot of them and i'm green with envy at "the mutt" for getting such a nice boat. The MacGregor is really spacious and open and goes like the clappers with a decent outboard on - best of both worlds.
Hope to get something next year - i love my defender, but i also love water and sails...

[Captain_Rightfoot]

"The Mutt" that's a great looking boat!

[The Mutt]

Thanks guys.

My preferred boat would be a 40 - 48 ft Grainger Catamaran but alas my Lotto numbers didn't come up this week so I have to work.

The Macgregor will get a lot of use, for our first holiday we might put in at Brooklyn or go to the Myall Lakes for Christmas/New Years.

Gotta remember the crab traps.

Glenn

[isuzurover]

Nice Schooner JD!

My Parents' neighbour in Brissie has built a lot of boats. I still have the scars from when I helped him move one of the (partially completed) hulls of a 34ft cat...

A friend/colleague has a benetau (28 I think?). It is quite short and fat, but has plenty of room in side. I think he still wishes he has his 43 footer though...

Might buy/build a boat one day, but I don't know if we could afford a berth anywhere near Perth!!!

[harlie]

If you want some room go for cat – I would love a Fusion 40 but for now this one will do... We have now had several very comfortable 2 and 4 week trips. Pic 2 was at the Percy Isles 50nm East of Sarina – we didn’t see another boat for 3 days, heaps of fish great coral – brilliant. 33ft cat has heaps of space must be 3 to 4 times that of a 33 ft mono. Must add I do hate the way a lot of cat designers use outboards.

[Trout]

If you want some room go for cat – I would love a Fusion 40 but for now this one will do... We have now had several very comfortable 2 and 4 week trips. Pic 2 was at the Percy Isles 50nm East of Sarina – we didn’t see another boat for 3 days, heaps of fish great coral – brilliant. 33ft cat has heaps of space must be 3 to 4 times that of a 33 ft mono. Must add I do hate the way a lot of cat designers use outboards.

Cats are appealing. Especially along the Qld Coast when you cant get out of the slop and you get plenty of time to look at them from a distance all tucked up and comfie in the shallows. I also race on a trimaran and nothing brings a smile to your dial like tearing along at 15 knots plus with a big kite up.

[C H T]

Jamo

I am a proffesional boatbuilder who has sailed thousands of miles offshore - Indian Ocean, Red Sea, Med, Atlantic, east Coast of Australia etc. Almost all my long offshore trips have been short handed on boats in the mid thirty foot range. I think that a later S&S 34 would make a fabulous cruising boat, keep it simple and dont overload it with gizmos and you will have a great ocean cruisng bost that will take you anywhere on earth where there is enough water to float it. Multis are great on the barrier reek but do have, IMO, serious limitations offshore.

What would I like to get for myself? a 35 footer capable of sailing safely offshore

PM me if you would like to discuss matters further

Christopher

[JDNSW]

Jamo

I am a proffesional boatbuilder who has sailed thousands of miles offshore - Indian Ocean, Red Sea, Med, Atlantic, east Coast of Australia etc. Almost all my long offshore trips have been short handed on boats in the mid thirty foot range. I think that a later S&S 34 would make a fabulous cruising boat, keep it simple and dont overload it with gizmos and you will have a great ocean cruisng bost that will take you anywhere on earth where there is enough water to float it. Multis are great on the barrier reek but do have, IMO, serious limitations offshore.

What would I like to get for myself? a 35 footer capable of sailing safely offshore

PM me if you would like to discuss matters further

Christopher

I can't disagree. While a number of times while sailing inside the reef in Queenland I have thought that I would be better off with a cat, I would not like to have been in one in Bass Strait for example (I have twice sailed from Melbourne to north Qld and back and sailed in the Bass Strait are for twenty years). And steel construction has its real advantages (and disadvantages).

John

[harlie]

I can't disagree. While a number of times while sailing inside the reef in Queenland I have thought that I would be better off with a cat, I would not like to have been in one in Bass Strait for example (I have twice sailed from Melbourne to north Qld and back and sailed in the Bass Strait are for twenty years). And steel construction has its real advantages (and disadvantages).

John
True – and for the exposed waters of WA a mono may also be better suited. On our last trip (4 weeks islands Yepoon – Mackay) we travelled with a couple in a 38ft steel mono and several days we sailed in 25+kn winds. Our 33ft cat was faster in light conditions but once the gusts got above 20 I reef the main and since he didn’t need to - he left us behind every time. The strongest day we travelled I didn’t even raise the main. The steel mono (at 2.5 times the weight) just disappeared into the distance... However we were all dry, warm and relaxed, under the protection of an enclosed Saloon and covered cockpit – they were dressed to the hilt in protective gear unable to leave their post – cabin boards locked in and no protection from the greenies coming over the front. My crew would just say “that was big” and go back to reading their book!

Once at the next destination the 6+1 total people were flat out fitting in the cockpit of his mono to enjoy the destination. Whereas happy hour on our 33’ cat could easily accommodate 12-14 with out being crowded. The monos in all anchorages (unless completely calm) would also rock all night and a lot more than I would have ever expected.

The other huge advantage of the cat is since it doesn’t lean under sail – so life can go easily and comfortably while covering the distances to start and return from our holiday, crew/guests can move about, shower, cook, dine, sleep, allowing us to entertain inexperienced friends and family and happily travel through the night with watch shifts.

For us - I really don’t think we would be able to go cruising with a small child in a mono – she’s now 18months, and also consider the skin cancer factor - we are all really fair.

[The Mutt]

If I ever had a chance to live long term on a boat I would be picking a Cat over a mono, to me they feel right.

It takes really bad weather to break the gimbels out for the stove when sailing a Cat, they are a permanent fixture on a mono hull, living on a 30 degree heal in a mono hull for days on end is tedious, dangling your legs over the side for hours and hours to get a quarter to three quarters of a knot extra speed out of the boat all the time getting cold and wet from the green it is a personal choice thing, some people don't mind.

Yes our current trailer sailor is a MacGregor 26X mono hull, the first mono hull we have owned, we have owned trailer cats before the largest being a Jarcat. one day we might eventually make a Jarcat 6 from resin infused foam sandwich instead of ply, that would make a lighter, stronger boat.


Glenn

[JDNSW]

The problems with a cat in areas of rough water are twofold -

1. Cats have two stable floating attitudes - mast up and mast down, monohulls only have one, mast up.

2. In rough seas the stress on a cat structure with diagonally opposite corners in the air are enormous, and give the choice of risking failure or having a very heavy boat.

Consider the current forecast for eastern Bass Strait -

"Winds: South to southeasterly 40 to 50 knots, reaching 55 knots at times, decreasing below 50 knots during the morning then tending southerly 30 to 45 knots around midday then decreasing below 40 knots later in the evening. Seas: Up to 6 metres decreasing to 5 metres around midday. Swell: Southeasterly 2 to 3 metres increasing to 3 to 4 metres late this evening. Swell: Southwesterly 1 metre. Isolated thunderstorms with hail this morning.

Please be aware
Wind gusts can be 40 percent stronger than the averages given here, and maximum waves may be up to twice the height."

Note that this is an onshore wind, so heaving to is not an option!


John

[harlie]

The problems with a cat in areas of rough water are twofold -

1. Cats have two stable floating attitudes - mast up and mast down, monohulls only have one, mast up.

2. In rough seas the stress on a cat structure with diagonally opposite corners in the air are enormous, and give the choice of risking failure or having a very heavy boat.

Consider the current forecast for eastern Bass Strait -

"Winds: South to southeasterly 40 to 50 knots, reaching 55 knots at times, decreasing below 50 knots during the morning then tending southerly 30 to 45 knots around midday then decreasing below 40 knots later in the evening. Seas: Up to 6 metres decreasing to 5 metres around midday. Swell: Southeasterly 2 to 3 metres increasing to 3 to 4 metres late this evening. Swell: Southwesterly 1 metre. Isolated thunderstorms with hail this morning.

Please be aware
Wind gusts can be 40 percent stronger than the averages given here, and maximum waves may be up to twice the height."

Note that this is an onshore wind, so heaving to is not an option!


John

Yes - I will freely admit that in conditions as this a mono is safer than a cat. However since we go boating for enjoyment I simply don’t go in these stupid conditions. If we are away we seek shelter and always have multiple contingency plans dependent on the 4 day forecast. The Picture I posted above was taken while we waited out gail force conditions in Late May, tucked safely and comfortable in a beautiful island bay. Everyone I’ve met who was currently or has done long range cruising has got so much time they are prepared to sit out poor conditions for weeks or more – they are out there to explore and enjoy – and yes I’ve met many who have travelled the world and crossed oceans in a cat.

Actually - That’s exactly why we are home this weekend – with S-SW at 20-30kn (Brisbane) the boat is tied up in its marina birth.

Everyone I’ve met who was currently or has done long range cruising has got so much time they are prepared to sit out poor conditions for weeks or more – they are out there to explore and enjoy – and yes I’ve met many who have travelled the world and crossed oceans in a cat.

The cat v mono argument is a personal one, If you like living at more than 30 degrees that’s great – I don’t. If you like being wet and cold – that’s great. I’ve even been told that sailing a cat is not “real sailing” – that’s fine too. For the family that goes boating for recreation (unless one is really stupid) a cat will not pose a problem – who sets out or stays out with a 50kn forecast??

How many cats have been abandoned at sea off the east coast this year? I can think of at least 6 monos.... Mono might have only one floating attitude but many fail to stay floating after a really good knock down - like the big Bavaria off sydney only last month... My point is - Stupidty will cause problems in all boat types.

[Jamo]

Thanks for the posts! And thanks C H T, I might get in touch whenwe we're closer to an acquisition.

It'll be a monohull for several reasons. Wewant an offshore cruiser that can comfortably cross oceans.

It'll also be an older design like an S&S34, S&S39 or similar.

I have a concern that modern boats like beneteaus and bavarias compromise stability for accommodation. Fine if you're doing the Whitsundays but not so fine if you are sailing across the Indian Ocean. (plus the're too expensive for me).

(PS Win lotto and it's a Hallberg-Rassy!)

[harlie]

(PS Win lotto and it's a Hallberg-Rassy!)


While in the Percy’s mid year - we met a US couple sailing the world in a Hallberg-Rassy 53, what a boat – fitout and finish far superior to any private boat I’ve seen. What are they worth - me think I might need more than one Lotto!!!


They had sailed from Chile across to Fiji via Pitcairn, French Polynesia, Cook Is, & Tonga. Then from Fiji to Brisbane (for servicing) via New Cal. Unbelievable stories and experiences to be told. We last saw them in Whitsundays heading for Indo and eventually Thialand. What an adventure.

[lambrover]

Hi Ramo, My experiance of the SS 34 is they area great boat built well and have a pretty sea kindly manner, don't mean to affend the guy with the martzcraft but they are a pig with the wind behind the beam, they do have more room but if crossing oceans you are better of being comfortable by a better motion. Dad my brother and I we sailed from Port Stephens to the Kepple Islands in a Pahi 31 wharram cat that dad built was a great trip. On that trip we meet a couple with a SS34 it was called Lion Heart, it was the boat that Jesse Martin bought a couple of years later. I was bought up on mono's but then dad built the cat and have loved cruising multi's ever since, I sailed up and down the east coast afew times now on different size cats and sailed to NZ on a 37ft proa, we stopped at Lord Howe took us 24hrs from Scarbough harbour near Brisbane we waited for 2 days for the next system to come and took of we made it into the Bay of Islands in NZ but there was a 45ft mono who got the s*#t knocked out of them because they didn't beat the weather change and they didn't stop to enjoy Lord Howe. Some people don't feel safe in multi's or just don't like the idea of them but from my experiance they are great mind you they can be expansive just like those crap french boats like you said compromized for accomadation. shouldn't go wrong with an SS though have you looked at any Cole designs (peter cole) they are pretty good as well.:D

[Redback]

W e found this one in Penrose State Forest
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[The Mutt]

W e found this one in Penrose State Forest
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Lousy marina facilities.

Glenn