More frequent 3 amigos with bad bumps...wheel sensor getting worse?

[ozscott]

Hi all - I know this is probably hard to answer, but someone might have had the same experience.

My 3 amigos came on driving at 110kph the other day when going over corrugations. Turned off and then back on as I coasted and all clear. Then a few days later over hard bumps in road and back on...then cleared with ignition off and on. Then today same again round a corner and corrugations in road and same reset. I take it I have a dodgy wheel sensor (ABS Modulator replaced at 50,000klm under warranty - now 130,000) and its getting worse?

I am keen to go to Fraser shortly and dont want to spend the cash on it before going - so hopefully it wont go out to lunch full time when Im in deep sand. I have found it useful in deep sand before, particularly when I dont have CDL.

Cheers

[LandyAndy]

Chase up a local member with a Nanocom,it should pick up where the issue is.Once triggered 3 times them lights will stay on all the time.Mine was on for ages,the sensor I sorted and replaced had over 200 faults registered against it.
Andrew

[ozscott]

Thanks Andy - I think I understood from one of your threads about your problems that the traction control still works even if the lights are permanently logged on...or am I wrong about that.

Cheers

[LandyAndy]

Yes the sytem is still operational,in the event of a total faliure of the sensor,ABS/TC wont work on that wheel but will on the others.
A Nanocom reading will tell you wich sensor is the issue,assuming it is a sensor.
Andrew

[astormsau]

sounds more like a bad joint in your abs modulator, and it is possible even though you have a new one, see this post

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/brakes/absmod.pdf

[2 rocks]

Well I've just started a 120km round trip each day for work and they come on every day day now. Always clears on a re-start but I'm getting peed off. Sometimes on start up, sometimes while moving. Thought it might have been low/dodgy/squeely pads but occurs even when not braking.
Not happy! :(

[astormsau]

see my post above, i think often this problem is mis-diagnosed.
my front bake pads squeal and never set off the 3 amigos.
i had an intermittant problem initially which was front passenger wheel speed sensor - the SLABS ECU told me this, i replaced it and then 8 weeks later the 3 amigos were coming on every day over bumps - assumed another dodgy sensor but it was a dry joint in the modulator.

3 faults of the ABS wheel spend sensor generally leaves 3 amigos on constantly... whereas i think the abs modulator issue will bring the lights up but they go away after you restart the car.... and then come back on when the connection is lost..

Andrew

[ozscott]

Thanks matey - yep mine has come on about 5 times now and goes away on re-start.

I will look at your thread to see if there is an easy at home fix.

Cheers

PS. Off to Fraser this week, very powdery at moment so keen for her to work properly if possible. I have found the TCS, particularly at walking pace to be very effective is deep soft sand.

[ozscott]

Interesting article. I see now that MR have done a few kits - about $200 for the parts - Shuttle Valve Kit and fitting them at a guess would be about 2-3 hours. Much better than going off to buy a replacement modulator unit.

Cheers

[PhilipA]

Just a left field thought.
Those unitary bearings often do not sound like the old type when failing.
Although I am speaking from NO experience, perhaps your wheel bearings are crook and the distance to the sensor is changing on corrugations or the sensor is being hit by the toner ring.
Regards Philip A.

[mumbo]

I've had this problem many times. it appears to be fixed currently by the simple process of using compressed air to blow the dust out of the backs of the wheels. It can't be just a co-incidence...I hope!! At least it costs nothing to try it.

[Redback]

What condition are your brake pads and has anyone done what mumbo has done, has anyone cleaned anything (ie) the connections of the ABS sensors or around the hubs.

Worn brake pads can contribute to the 3 amigoes, as can dirt, dust, mud, squealing pads and so on.

Before you go spending hundreds of dollars, clean all these things first, then have the faults cleared, if they keep doing it, then look at the modulator or a replacing a wheel sensor.

Baz.

[ladas]

Do a search on this forum for a post by Stevo, where he covers the shuttle valve and a bit more.

I had an issue - bought the shuttle valve kit from British 4wd ($120.00) changed over the switch - ???? old switch still okay......???

So I followed Stevo's to inspect the section where the shuttle valve plugs in, I didn't have the same issue, but the four terminals (two each side) we a little dirty. Cleaned them up, put it all together, got the fault cleared and they have not re-appeared (the three amigo's)

Plus I did the work with the modulator still in the vehicle, which meant I did not have to disconnect any brake likes or have the system bled afterwards.

We had a bit of a trip this w/end to mount terrible, up some mild rough stuff, tested out the hill decent, all working and still no light. So I am fairly convinced this was a fix.

All in all, I guess to remove the old shuttle valve switch and replace it took me less than an hour. Then the second time to remove the switch, remove the side plate and clean all the terminals, and put it together again took just over an hour.

[ozscott]

Pads a near new LR - I have learnt enough over the years to know that whilst the Jury might be out on whether aftermarket pads to cause harmonic vibrations etc enough to set off the sensors, its just safer to pay a bit more and stick with originals.

Cheers

[29dinosaur]

sounds more like a bad joint in your abs modulator, and it is possible even though you have a new one, see this post

http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/brakes/absmod.pdf

The guys article which is too techo for me summarises like this:
My final conclusion from this is.......
There are a lot of places for air to get trapped!!!!
It’s no wonder that it’s highly recommended to pressure bleed the system from the master
cylinder! There is no way my conventional bleeding can get all of these air pockets full.
I have had an air pocket behind one of the actuators before, the pedal is nearly impossible to
push, but the brakes do work! The fix, well I removed it to have it rebuilt, and lo and behold, I
find out they don't touch that when rebuilding. So simply removing the unit and letting all the
air back in was enough to reset the actuator. Reinstalled and it was good to go.
I have put some miles (and some bumps and bounces) on it now, enough for the code to
come back if it was going to………………and no codes!
Notes:
Page 17


So what does this mean for ozscott and any others who suffer same problem (myself included) - remove the unit - let air in and away you go???

Had new abs sensor installed to LF 2 weeks ago - all fine for a week or 2. Braked heavily over a rut - on come 3 amigos. Go home in disgust. Next time back in car 3 amigos gone. 5 days later just driving - notice slight squeal in disc as driving - next thing without braking on come 3 amigos.... got to destination - turned off - next time car turned on 3 amigos gone. I presume that if this happens 3 times then next time 3 amigos then turning car on/off will not clear.???

[jmkoffice]

I understand the early model D2's has a problem with the wheel sensors vibrating out of their housing. This causes an excess gap which triggers a fault. This was rectified with a new fitment method in later models. I think the later ones are a screw fit as opposed to a press fit.

[bruiser69]

Hi Ozscott,
I have a 2000 TD5 & had a few 3 Amigo issues even under warranty.
The first time the computer said it was front right sensor. LR replaced sensor twice, but lights on again two weeks later & second time one month . Finally traced to intermittent wiring harness. LR ran some external cabling to sensor socket.
Next well out of warranty, 3 Amigos again! Computer diagnosed ABS modulator- shuttle valve. LR wanted to charge me for new modulator ($3500) but i did some searching on LR forums & found out there was a cheap kit to fix modulator. Told LR about kit & they agreed to obtain & fit. Only $500 inc labour.
Touch wood, I have not had any ABS/traction problems since.

Cheers..B

[ozscott]

Thanks all. I just spent 4 days traversing Fraser Island. They have not had rain for a long time and the tracks were very very soft and boggy - more people were getting stuck at Indian Head than made it through...of course the Disco in third low and my 265/70/16 at 20 pounds went straight past an 80 series that was bogged trying to get past a 100 series bogged....and I had to go into the softest part to do it. My mate with the same set up followed me not problems in the world....love it...(both manual V8's) on the way back waited in the thick stuff for the GU Patrol to be snatched out and idled through....traction control got a great workout and never missed a beat.

Cheers

PS. No error lights at all for some reason all trip

[gazk]

My 2002 TD5 has intermittent 3 amigos, they come on when driving along even without bumps or braking. The Nanocom shows an intermittent shuttle valve fault (up to 254 times), no sensor faults since I cleaned all the connectors. The lights clear after turning off the ignition, sometimes I will go a week or so without the lights, sometimes I see them a few times in a day but they always clear (at least for a short while) when the ignition is switched off and back on.

My vehicle had a shuttle valve kit fitted about a year ago (before I bought it). I haven't used hill descent or had TC come on recently. Might take it out to Yalwal soon for a workout and see if the three amigos go on holiday.

Regards

[LandyAndy]

Hi Scott.
The beauty of a rover diff:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Those nissans and tojos have a substantialy bigger sized diff than yours that works just like an anchor in the sand.
Great to see the D2 excelled itself for you in the sand.
ENJOY
Andrew

[ozscott]

Thanks Andy - yep the new tyres really make her in the sand...she was nice with standard's but really great with the longer footprint and better tyre approach angle (and for that matter front end approach angle). I think the diffs are part of it, but also the front end of the IFS toyos hand lower as well...and they are fat (heavy) tubs of lard which doesnt help in the sand:) The gearing of the Discos are good too and that off idle torque is good.

Helped a poor german tourist out who hired an 80 series and was trying in vain to climb a steep soft sand hill about 100 metres long from eastern beach to Kingfisher/McKenzie....he kept telling me down the bottom that it was set up for sand....I kept saying the tyres are way to high and see you when you back down again...we did that twice and then I bolted on the gauge and 50 pounds all around...nice. Stauns on and down to 20 all around and told him third low and off he went like a happy camper all the way to the top.

The TCS got a nice workout on some axle twisters on some of the tracks and did itself proud.

Cheers

[stevo]

I wonder if that was my post that he read and it does not look like mine was a one off problem either

[ozscott]

?????

[29dinosaur]

no sensor faults since I cleaned all the connectors.

How did you go about this cleaning?

[gazk]

Hi, I disconnected all the plugs on the sensor leads and the connections on the ABS controller. Sprayed them with electrical contact cleaner then wiped them with a rag. The contact cleaner in a spray can is available from most automotive stores, DSE and Tandy. The contact cleaner is also good for flushing oil out of a TD5 engine harness and cleaning the ECU connections.

[mumbo]

Just had a serious case of the 3 amigos. fault identified quickly by Range-Rov as a simple relay. very happy with that result:)
By the way they have moved from Mitcham to Rooks Rd Vermont

[harlie]

Hi Scott.
The beauty of a rover diff:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Those nissans and tojos have a substantialy bigger sized diff than yours that works just like an anchor in the sand.
Great to see the D2 excelled itself for you in the sand.
ENJOY
Andrew


Diff, na.
Think it is more like the stupid position of the Cruiser spare tyre, AND the full width bulldozer blade trying to level the track that is commonly known as the Independant Front Suspension guard on the 100. :D

[ozscott]

That IRS is terrible for clearance - and the dragster rake on them doesnt help once they start to plough.

I did take off the connector to the modulator and gave it a spray with contact cleaner before I left and also pressured hosed the brakes before I left...never missed a beat at Fraser and the lights have not come on since despite racking up several thousand ks and on some very bad corrugated roads and with crap shock absorbers.

Cheers

[astormsau]

hi everyone
sorry i have been away and unable to reply.
the connector shown on page 6 of the following article was the connector at fault. http://www.hummerknowledgebase.com/brakes/absmod.pdf

When i got my car I had an ABS wheel speed sensor fault. I had codes read and cleared and everything was fine. When this sensor would cause a fault 3 times the 3 amigos would remain illuminated all the time.

About 3 months after that I had the 3 amigos come on again, this time however they would disappear when the car was restarted. This went on for some weeks until I took the car to have the faults read. The fault was an ABS shuttle valve fault.

The SLABS computer constantly runs voltage (excuse my non technical explanation here) through the shuttle valve switches to make sure they are connected and functioning. If the connection to the shuttle valve switches is broken, the computer will detect a shuttle valve fault and log it in the computer and show the 3 amigos. Upon restart the amigos will have gone away.

Land rover began replacing modulators but the fault came back.
Land rover then replaced shuttle valve switches but the fault came back. Why? because they were replacing perfectly good shuttle valves with new ones.. but they were still plugging into the same dodgy connector within the modulator (shown on page 6 of the article).

Why do these often go off when we go over bumps? because the vibration causes the connector inside the modulator to move and break the connection - hence off go the 3 amigos.

There are several ways to rectify this - remove the modulator, pull it to bits and then repair the connector. The way I chose to rectify it was to lift up the modulator whilst leaving the brake lines connected, remove the shuttle valve switches, re-route the 2 connecting wires outside the modulator to the factory wiring loom which goes into the main connector on the modulator - hence bypassing the dodgy connector inside the modulator.

That was 5 months ago, I have not had the 3 amigos come on again. My brake pads are wearing low now and have begun squealing (for about the last 1500km)... they squeal and i go off road over bumps and down corrigated roads and no 3 amigos.

As for the other info in that article re bleeding brakes, i cant give any advice on that as we didnt need to disconnect my brake lines as the gentleman who wrote the article was spending alot more time dissecting the modulator - i posted the article as a reference as it gives good pics of where the fault lies and a reasonably good description of how to test for it.

Hope this helps
Drew

[JayBee75]

Hi guys, alot of info here that's for sure. I am now confused.

Whilst I have a general understand of things the ability to do it myself requires exact instructions hence my following request!

Have been getting the 3 Amigos on and off over the past month. Turn car off problem cleared. Seems to come on under braking, particulalry in the wet.

Range Rov called today saying that the fault coming up is shuttle valve switch failure, approx $1800 fix. Jamie and the guys at Range Rov have always looked after me and done a good job, however I don't have $1800 large to throw around at the moment.

Reading all the different posts there seems to be a simple cheaper fix, one that I would like to persue.

Can anyone recommend how I go about fixing a shuttle valve switch failure myself?

Any help/advise/instructions would be so very much appreciated.

I know it sounds funny with a disco but I like everything to be working 100%:D

Cheers
JB.

[zzsteve]

The way I chose to rectify it was to lift up the modulator whilst leaving the brake lines connected, remove the shuttle valve switches, re-route the 2 connecting wires outside the modulator to the factory wiring loom which goes into the main connector on the modulator - hence bypassing the dodgy connector inside the modulator.

Hi Drew,
I assume you can do all of this (access the switches and connectors) without having brake fluid leaking everywhere and having to re-bleed etc...?

Cheers,

Steve

[astormsau]

Hi Drew,
I assume you can do all of this (access the switches and connectors) without having brake fluid leaking everywhere and having to re-bleed etc...?

Cheers,

Steve

its tight but it can be done.
the modulator can be lifted high enough to remove the shuttle valve switch which is on the bottom (held in by some allen head screws)... once shuttle valve switch is removed, its a matter of rewiring the switch cables to run outside the modulator to run to the factory loom which plugs into the modulator. will try and take some pics soon!