Freelander - constant4x4?????

[Ozboc]

HI there recently purchased a 99 model Freelander 4x4 (2l tdi) - was told everything works from the auction house - but i was lied too - this vehicle has a range of problems from cracked chasis to now no 4x4?

Had the vehicle in gear elevated the front end -- and front wheels just free spool / spin ( in same direction ) can anyone shed some light on this for me please?

these are constant 4x4 right ? dont have to hit a button or lock in the front diff >

any advice please

Boc

P.s will be writting a letter to the auction house with the list of faults and checking my options based on the fact the guy told me the car was good ( and i have witnesses)

[Phoenix]

the freelander is constant 4wd, but if I recall it has open diffs, so both front wheels will turn in the same direction in the air, but if you applied power to the vehicle in that state it would not move as drive would be directed to the front wheels.

Not sure how traction control would affect that however.

[Ozboc]

the freelander is constant 4wd, but if I recall it has open diffs, so both front wheels will turn in the same direction in the air, but if you applied power to the vehicle in that state it would not move as drive would be directed to the front wheels.

Not sure how traction control would affect that however.

HI Pheonix , thanks for the super fast reply --- i took the car for a run down the road ( live on the edge of rural area)

In the gravel i gave it a bit -- just rear wheels spin - no drive or spin at front wheel? i wanted to use this vehicle in the sand and a bit worried now ( i have a Nissan Patrol 4.2 TDI as my main 4x4 and want this one as a back up 4x4 if friends want to come along)

should i just bite the bullet and just take it to the sand ?


Boc

[isuzurover]

This info from ashcroft may help:

The Freelander has 3 main drivetrain problems areas, the Intermediate Reduction Drive (IRD), Viscous Coupling (VC) and the rear differential.

The reason for this is the front wheels on the Freelander are driven faster than the rear wheels so it handles well, like a front wheel drive car. To accommodate this ratio difference, a VC is fitted inline with the rear propshaft which thus is constantly slipping.

On the earlier models this ratio difference was too great resulting in the viscous coupling working overtime and failing by siezing solid. When the viscous coupling is too tight or seized solid the front tyres are fighting the rears as the transmission is "winding up", initially this just wears the tyres (causing a "saw tooth" effect) but it also puts increased load on the IRD and rear diff as they are fighting each other causing rapid wear on both and ultimately failure of one or both.


If the freelander has 2 open diffs with a viscous coupling connecting them, if you lift 1 front wheel and one rear wheel off the ground it won't go anywhere (the 2 wheels off the ground should spin). If the front does not turn when you do this, then you have a problem.

All the issues mentioned by Ashcroft above would cause REAR drive to fail though. However it is possible that in your case something in the front driveline has failed instead.

[Phoenix]

I'm not 100% on freelanders, as i've only test driven one myself (we ended up with the larger x-trail).

One of the freelander guys will be able to answer your question better than me. I'll shif this thread into the freelander area for you to get a more direct response.

a muddy padock would be a better test of whichwheels are spinning than a public road :D

[101RRS]

I have a L series diesel and there is a lot here that does not make sense.

Firstly the freelander is technically a front wheel drive vehicle with awd on demand - but this is not quite true - because of the drag in the VC, the way a VC works and the slight difference in diff ratios between the front and rear in reality 10% of drive is going to rear wheels at all times - so 90% to the front wheels - 10% to the rears.

When the VC detects slip in the front wheels (ie the front propeller shaft connected to the IRD (transfer case - front diff) is turning faster than the rear propellor shaft which is connected to the rear diff - the VC is between the two shafts) it locks and privides drive to the rear giving a 50/50 split.

So to the opening thread - with BOTH front wheels off the ground and the the car trying to drive the VC should detect the front propellor shaft turning faster than the stationary rear shaft and start to lock up - however if this was done at idle it would be like an auto transmission stopped at traffic lights - the VC would still be slipping. The greater the revs the more the VC will lock. So if the engine was left at idle it doesn't surprise me drive was not at the rear wheels - by the way what would have happened if the VC did lock and drive would your car come crashing down.

Now to the second post by the originator - the rear wheels spinning without the fronts - I don't believe this is possible - the fronts would have spun first then the rears and when both wheels are travelling at the same speed the VC would disengage - the most likely scenario was the rear wheels spinning and the front wheel on the other side also spinning with the front wheel being watched not spinnning. You haven't indicated what L series you have so it may not have traction control - however even if you have it, it does not work until it completes the ABS test procedure on start up which requires a speed of about 7 kph. (or front wheels spinning at that equivalent speed).

Does you car still have the VC fitted? When the VC fails it locks - not the other way around.

Check to see if the VC is working - the best way is to put the car in first gear, jack up the drivers rear wheel, release the handbrake and remove the wheel.

There is a huge hub nut and put on a socket and using a breaker bar - you will need one about 2ft long - then apply a steady and heavy force in a clockwise direction. The wheel will slowly turn - don't under estimate the "steady" pressure required - it will not move much but it will turn - slow and steady is required - short bursts do not work.

If the wheel does not turn the VC is locked.

The easier way is to put a chalk mark on the VC then take the car for a drive and if the chalk marks still line up the VC has locked up solid.

The VC comprises two main components - a damper - ring about 2" wide and slightly larger diameter than the VC - the VC is about 6 or 7" in diameter and about the same long - chalk mark the VC and damper so the marks align and go for a drive - they should no longer line up. If they do line up - do the test again.

Symptoms of locked VC - stalling of the engine when reversing with the front wheels on lock - feels like the handbrake is still on. Sometimes there is uneven tyre wear.

On a Freelander having all wheels/tyres the same size is important - so wheel rotation is an absolute must to keep tyres at the level of wear.

So some of the information posted does seem contridictory but the above information might help.

Cheers

Garry

[beforethevision]

I agree with Gary totally. You cannot have only the rear wheels turning. One rear and one front yes. Assuming the front diff is ok.

Both front wheels should not spin the same direction when off the ground off and in gear. The car is essentially front wheel drive with a PTO.

The ratio between front and rear diff speeds transfers power back, in reality a good nick VC should put 100% power to the back if the front wheels both freespin.

Also, on the note of cracked chassis, where is it? I have never heard of it, even from cars that rally. Its a monocoque so a crack would be rare, but scary if its true. Perhaps a picture would be good.

Sand driving in a freelander means keep speed. Once you stop, so does rear wheel drive, as the ratio between front wheel speed and rear wheel speed is zero:zero. Simply be throttle happy and the traction and VC will keep you well out of mischief.

Cheers!

EDIT: IF I recall correctly I think its meant to have a front LSD, and I dont believe any Au Freelanders did /not/ have ETC.

[SuperMono]

No drive to the front and spinning rear wheels makes no sense unless some really drastic internal drama/modifications have occured.

Jack both rear wheels into the air, start it up and stick it in gear.
If it falls over, drive is available to the front wheels.
If it doesn't fall over and the rear wheels are spinning you have a unique vehicle, or the front drive shafts are missing.

[101RRS]

EDIT: IF I recall correctly I think its meant to have a front LSD, and I dont believe any Au Freelanders did /not/ have ETC.

No FLs have a front LSD. I believe (but not absolutely sure) the base model di (or i for the petrol) did not have ABS, HDC, ETC or a passenger airbag as standard though most were optioned for these goodies. The XEDI and XEI came with everything as standard.

Cheers

Garry

[50cc]

Just some FYI.

I had my Freelander on a car lift this weekend, all 4 wheels hanging free. Car was in neutral and hand brake on. When I turned one front wheel, the other front wheel turned in the other direction. Normal Diff workings as far as I know.

Good Luck!

[fz1yam]

I have a 1989 L series, about three monthes after i bought it the front drive shaft let go . This happened because the vcu was siezed . It took out the ird as well. It cost a packet to fix , even with second hand stuff .
I did put a new vcu in though . Dont take any second guess as far as all of that goes, Take it in to a good Land Rover mechanic and get it checked out . (but make sure they know all about FREELANDERS as some dont ) Dont put it off , you dont want to find out the hard way like i did .
Good luck

[101RRS]

I have a 1989 L series, about three monthes after i bought it the front drive shaft let go . This happened because the vcu was siezed . It took out the ird as well. It cost a packet to fix , even with second hand stuff .



I am surprised it took out the front propellor shaft as well - normally it is the pinion and crown wheel that takes the drive to the rear in the IRD - result is normally a new IRD. These bits are not normally available but in the UK bits are becoming available.

I agree with you putting in a new VC rather than a second hand one.

I hope that when you got the second IRD you got it from a post 2000 model or else you are likely to have the same problem in the future. The issue is not the VC but the early IRDs that had the what is effectively the wrong diff ratio in them - resulting in the VC having to work harder and failing. Post 2000 IRDs have different ratios in them that better match the rear diff.

Garry

[beforethevision]

lol

My IRD still runs the original high ratio (No idea what it actually is). Does awful things to goodyear tyres. However I have replaced the VC with a new replacement at around 90,oookms. and its going strong. Its very tail happy when on the dirt and off the power, as the rear tries to push past the front.

cheers!

[beforethevision]

On that note, does anyone know the drive ratio of the rear diff? Or what sort of power it can handle?

Im seriously contemplating converting to a holden LSD rear/ford locker, and replacing the whole engine & GB with a nissan turbo v6 & 5speed auto. So i suppose my question is, what ratio is the freelander diff, and can it handle ~350-400Nm...?

Cheers!

[mcrover]

lol

My IRD still runs the original high ratio (No idea what it actually is). Does awful things to goodyear tyres. However I have replaced the VC with a new replacement at around 90,oookms. and its going strong. Its very tail happy when on the dirt and off the power, as the rear tries to push past the front.

cheers!

This probably explains why it seems to have drive to the rear only, it is probably the pushing effect in the loose surface.

With the rest of it, take it to someone who knows them well, a lot of LR mechanics dont like them all that much.

[101RRS]

Im seriously contemplating converting to a holden LSD rear/ford locker, and replacing the whole engine & GB with a nissan turbo v6 & 5speed auto. So i suppose my question is, what ratio is the freelander diff, and can it handle ~350-400Nm...?Cheers!

I am not sure whether to :Rolling:or :( or :cool::imwithstupid: or what? :D ;) :D

Any way the rear diff is a Dana diff (so I have been told) so there should a locker to fit somewhere. All F1 rear diffs are 3.214:1 (crown is 45 teeth pinion is 14) (though some repair kits state it as being 3.14:1). http://www.difflap.com.au/publications/RATIO.pdf (see about page 17)

Also because of the failures caused by the VC, post 2000 diffs - while of the same design and construction - have larger bearings to take the loads.

So as the drive for the front left wheel goes from the IRD through the middle of the shaft taking drive to the IRD from the gearbox and through the gearbox - how are you going to get the drive from the IRD through the nissan gearbox to the front left wheel:).

Hope this helps.

Oh did I tell you about my plan tom make a freelander dual range by using a lada transfer case instead of the VC and removing half of the IRD (the half that has the front diff in but leaving the rear PTO section) and putting a rear freelander diff in the front :eek:.

Garry

[beforethevision]

This probably explains why it seems to have drive to the rear only, it is probably the pushing effect in the loose surface.

With the rest of it, take it to someone who knows them well, a lot of LR mechanics dont like them all that much.


Different customer im sorry, i know my car well, the guy that apparently has rear only is 'Ozboc' or something similar.

Cheers!

[beforethevision]

I am not sure whether to :Rolling:or :( or :cool::imwithstupid: or what? :D ;) :D

Any way the rear diff is a Dana diff (so I have been told) so there should a locker to fit somewhere. All F1 rear diffs are 3.214:1 (crown is 45 teeth pinion is 14) (though some repair kits state it as being 3.14:1). http://www.difflap.com.au/publications/RATIO.pdf (see about page 17)

Also because of the failures caused by the VC, post 2000 diffs - while of the same design and construction - have larger bearings to take the loads.

So as the drive for the front left wheel goes from the IRD through the middle of the shaft taking drive to the IRD from the gearbox and through the gearbox - how are you going to get the drive from the IRD through the nissan gearbox to the front left wheel:).

Hope this helps.

Oh did I tell you about my plan tom make a freelander dual range by using a lada transfer case instead of the VC and removing half of the IRD (the half that has the front diff in but leaving the rear PTO section) and putting a rear freelander diff in the front :eek:.

Garry

Ive heard your plan and it sounds pretty good. The lift to clear the diff would be massive tho. Unless you can seriously wrangle the front diff right around, and disconnect from the PTO, then the new diff has gotta go under the engine.

Im looking at a nissan vq30det, turbo v6, about 200kW, 380Nm. 5speed auto RWD set up. Fits the engine bay and trans tunnel nicely. I am worried the freelander diff will go bang with that power driven direct so i was looking at the holden LSD's. The freelander rear diff is hypoid ( ?), to hide the driveshaft, but apparently this is a weaker design? (I can't confirm) It would be easy to mount the entire new diff in there, but not as easy as leaving the original in there....

My reasoning is that if the freelander is essentially 2wd when 'cross' axled, and will get stuck, RWD and locked should be ok. Not as good often i know. Plus it will go sheep loads faster. Furthering this, if it goes well, itl get a transfer case modded onto the auto, and do what your suggesting. The VC housing would take a transfer case easy. Same resultant height, except 3 times the power. Oh, and lockable diffs. Just gotta get 6" K frame lift engineered.....

hmmmm or stick solid axles under it. If you looked at the chassis contours, its just asking for D2 solid axles&diffs... traction and eveything will still work. Probably easier to engineer also, as there is no height comparison.

Ive pondered this too much as you can tell.

Just think, nice, little, comfy, nimble freelander, solid axles, low range, 31"s, automatic and 200kW.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a supporter of independent suspension, i think it rocks, look at Baja1000. BUT it's hella painful to do custom. And macpherson isn't a good start. Although somewhere on the net, there is a v6 freelander SE3 with double wishbone and coilovers. And the ford engine in the rear. Specifically built for rally.

cheers!

[101RRS]

Why not take the easy route and just put the body on a disco chassis and run a V8 :cool:. The wheel base is the same.

Garry

[beforethevision]

hmm it has been done....

But why would you want to add 500kg to the car, as well as a v8 that consumes more booze than a football stadium, and spits out a poor 150kW.


This is perhaps slightly rougher than the look i was wanting.... lol but you get the point.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1209/95392587tvxeylrt2.jpg



Or much nicer, and closer to what i will start with,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/281.jpg

[SuperMono]

Why not take the easy route and just put the body on a disco chassis and run a V8 :cool:. The wheel base is the same.
Garry

Why not chop the extra overhang off a Disco or Rangie and leave it at that, it would be easier than the body transplant.

Seems a lot of work unless you get all the bits for free and have a friendly engineer around to try and get everything approved for registration, insurance woes.........

A rear LSD certainly wouldn't hurt if someone nutted it all out and one of those trick torsen units for the front would help as well.

Alternatively grab two TD4 Freebies and transplant the front end of one into the back end of the other, engine and transmission included. Fit petrol diffs to gear it all down and some oversized tyres to lift it up.

Or chop a disco :angel:

[PhilipA]

Repeat after me .
The front diff is effectively HIGHER than the rear so the car will feel like a Front Wheel Drive for those poms graduating from a Fiesta.
The rear is NOT higher.
That is if this post is correct that is.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/22076-freelander-diff-ratios.html
Regards Philip A

[beforethevision]

Repeat after me .
The front diff is effectively HIGHER than the rear so the car will feel like a Front Wheel Drive for those poms graduating from a Fiesta.
The rear is NOT higher.
That is if this post is correct that is.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/22076-freelander-diff-ratios.html
Regards Philip A

OI, easy tiger. Did you bother to grab a calculator?

(Sorry in advance gary, i cant make heads or tails of that thread)

Gary has stated the wheels turn at 683RPM at 1000 RPM gearbox output shaft. 683 wheel RPM is about 88km/h. Even in fifth gear, 0.649:1 that places it at 650 engine RPM. Not likely.

Using the numbers below, from the Rave manual...

Take for example, the 2.0L diesel, 1000RPM in fifth gear gives 36.5km/h.

1000 engine RPM -> 1000 / 0.649 = 1540 Gearbox RPM

1540 GBox RPM -> 1540 / 3.647 = 422 Gearbox Output RPM

422 GB Out RPM -> 422 / 0.828 = 510 IRD Countershaft RPM

510 IRD CS RPM -> 510 / 1.762 = 290 Drive shaft RPM

290 Dr shaft RPM -> 290 * (27 * 0.0254e-3 * pi) * 60 = ~37km/h

Remove calculation rounding etc and, coincindence? It lines up with given figures.

My original Q was simply the ratio of the rear, but now im interested.
If we do the same calculation for the rear,

1000 engine RPM -> 1000 / 0.649 = 1540 Gearbox RPM

1540 GBox RPM -> 1540 / 3.647 = 422 Gearbox Output RPM

422 GB Out RPM -> 422 / 0.828 = 510 IRD Countershaft RPM

510 IRD CS RPM -> 510 / 0.553 = 922 Propshaft RPM

922 Propshaft RPM -> 922 / 3.214 = 286 Drive shaft RPM

286 Dr shaft RPM -> 286 * (27 * 0.0254e-3 * pi) * 60 = ~37km/h

If you include the final drive ratio, of 3.647:1, use the different IRD and rear diff ratio, it brings it back to ~286 drive shaft RPM. much closer and around 1% less than the front drive.

So to confirm what Gary says, yes, the rear actually does go slower, contrary to my initial thoughts. This suggests that under straight line conditions, no power at all is transferred back. I was under the impression the rear was set faster, to give rear drive under normal conditions, but figures suggest its the other way.

The rear is more like a donkey on a rope, you gotta drag it. So if its for onroad use only, take the VC out and leave the handbrake on... :P

Cheers! Hope this clears it up a little!

FINAL DRIVE
Ratios:
1.8 ’K’ series with MPi 4.200 : 1 ........................
2.0 ’L’ series 3.647 : 1 ...............................

Road speed at 1000 rev/min in top gear:
1.8 ’K’ series with MPi 31.7 km/h ........................ 19.7 mph
2.0 ’L’ series 36.5 km/h ............................... 22.7 mph

INTERMEDIATE REDUCTION DRIVE
Ratios:
IRD input shaft to IRD countershaft 0.828 : 1 .............
IRD countershaft to Front driveshaft 1.762 : 1 ............
IRD countershaft to Propeller shaft 0.553 : 1 .............

REAR AXLE
Ratios:
Propeller shaft to rear driveshaft 3.214 : 1 ...............

[101RRS]

Since those posts I have confirmed the actual front diff ratio is 1.81:1 and the rear diff is actually 3.214. The IRD which feed drive to both the front and rear has its own gearing that makes the effective gearing of the diffs similar but not the same.

On the 1.8 4 cylinder, the rear differential ratio slightly "taller" than the front (3.214:1 v. 3.188:1) so that some torque is always going through the rear wheels, even in the absence of any wheel slip at the front. Source Land Rover Freelander (http://www.4wdonline.com/LandRover/CB40/Freelander.html). There are differences with the engine and gearbox fitted.

I have to admit different (and conflicting) information exists in the literature. One day I am going to strip my spare IRD down and see what exactly is going on because having looked at this over the past few years it is as clear as mud - I might even have a look inside the IRD next week.

Garry

EDIT - just noted the previous post - be wary of the 2005 posts - at that time I had NO information and was being given the run around by a whole bunch of people and I good not accept at that time that the effective front diff ratios could vary so much and keep the rear ratios the same - the rear diff ratios id 3.214:1 for all FL1s (FACT). The mystery is the gearing in the IRD. As I said I will try to pull my old one apart next week and solve the mystery.

[beforethevision]

Yeah, the rave manual numbers seem pretty good.
They come to a result of...

Rear diff - 3.214:1 (tailshaft in to drive shaft out)
front diff - 1.459:1 (thats IRD in to drive shaft out)

Propshaft pinion - 0.458:1 (thats IRD in to propshaft out)

Proof of this is that 0.458 * 3.214 is VERY close to 1.459

Rave gives no alternate ratios, but there is definately room to play as its soo close. It shows the manual gearbox has different final drive ratios depending on engine, but the numbers for the IRD are the same.

That magazine article does not agree with my numbers, as changing to 3.188 results in almost EXACT alignment of front and rear wheel speeds, while 3.214 is dragging the rear a little. Either way, no forward torque is transmitted to the rear. Also, i might suspect that the closer ratios are on the 1.8 due to the limited power, and dragging the rear would be dreadful for highway performance.

If you have varying numbers, post em up and ill calculate out the suspected combos if you like.

Cheers!

[SuperMono]

the rear diff ratios id 3.214:1 for all FL1s (FACT). The mystery is the gearing in the IRD.

Well that throws one of my theories out the window on the gearing differences between the V6 and the TD4.
RAVE lists a Final Drive Ratio of 3.66 (V6) and 2.91 (TD4), which I thought was in the diff ratio, but must be a combination of the actual diff ratio(s) and the gearsets buried in the IRD.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/10/258.jpg

I think we are getting into a far too serous area, all maths and smoking sliderules :)

On the diff subject, I have found most of the time the TCS looks after you pretty well if you get the line, speed and throttle control right, but more positive drive wouldn't hurt. I had thought about the Dana internals and looking into LSD sets but I think you could look for a long time before you found anything. Last weekend I went out with my brother in his Jackaroo which does have a rear LSD, but no traction control, he got hung up in basically the same way as you can in a Freebie, cross axled with 2 wheels spinning, the clutch pack in the LSD obviously still allows plenty of slip, so the result was the same. A rear air locker would be interesting, but so would a suitably setup Rangie.

Momentum is your friend, but comes with lack of comfort and possible damage!

[beforethevision]

The final drive ratio appears to be at the output of the gearbox. Selected to suit the engine. The ratios in the IRD are as listed above. Although im not sure of age variations.

from what i can guess...

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4461/29682408520ba9c5dd89btc4.jpg
\

My suspicion is that the LH drive shaft goes up the guts of the input shaft, meeting the differential in the right of the IRD. Which would result in...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers!

[PhilipA]

he got hung up in basically the same way as you can in a Freebie, cross axled with 2 wheels spinning, the clutch pack in the LSD obviously still allows plenty of slip
LSDs need some traction to bias it towards the other wheel.
The stated fix is to pull the handbrake on a bit. Same with Torsen.
Wish I had known that when I had my old Jackeroo.
You can also do this with an open diff.
Regards Philip A

[101RRS]

but no traction control, he got hung up in basically the same way as you can in a Freebie, cross axled with 2 wheels spinning,

In this respect a freelander should be no different to a D2 or a D3 with out diff locks - when you get crossed axled with 2 wheels spinning, traction control should kick in and drive transferred to the non spinning wheels.

Well it does on mine albiet with a bit of ooomph on the accelerator peddle.

Garry

[SuperMono]

Yes as I found out when I went off and did some driver training with LROCV at Werribee. Don't try and tickle the throttle under those conditions to control traction, just let it have it (relatively) and let the electronics look after everything.

Once you are stopped it does tend to be all over though, recovery or at least a gentle shove by willing hands.

[101RRS]

My suspicion is that the LH drive shaft goes up the guts of the input shaft, meeting the differential in the right of the IRD. Which would result in...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Cheers!

You are correct -1. is the main drive shaft that takes drive from the gearbox to the rear drive and to the front differential. This drive shaft is hollow. Drive from the front diff goes directly out to the drivers front wheel. But for the left front comes from the diff via 9 (intermediate shaft) which runs through the middle of the main drive shaft 1. into the gearbox where it connects to another shaft to take power to the front left wheel through the gearbox - I assume in the middle of the gearbox output shaft and connects onto to left drive shaft.

I am not sure your red lines in the bottom right of the IRD (Just above the .5331:1 ) is correct as the diagram does no show gears in that area and I have a suspicion the rear PTO grears do not interact with the front diff - but them who knows.

A lot of the mystery with the IRD is that drive for the front and gear is taken from at different points and at different points in the gearing. Unlike a traditional tfr case where drive to the front and rear is taken from the same point on the reduction process.

Garry

[101RRS]

Well that throws one of my theories out the window on the gearing differences between the V6 and the TD4.
RAVE lists a Final Drive Ratio of 3.66 (V6) and 2.91 (TD4),



Well when I said ALL FL1S had a rear diff ration of 3.whatever - I wasn't counting the V6:o just the 1.8, L series and TD4 manual and auto - I have no info on the V6:( but I would assume it has the later updated strengthened diff of the same ratios.

Garry

[landy63]

Would be good to find out someway to replace the vcu with some sort of device to engage 4x4 when required . And 2x4 when not req. I have burnt out my brain trying to figure it out. Any ideas . Al

[101RRS]

A simply dog clutch like a series landy has would do it - some more modern cars use a series of clutches - not hard to do really.

Garry

[SuperMono]

Wouldn't actually be hard as the VCU is in the middle of the car and very accessible, but I don't see the point.
The VCU works ok as it is in my experience so far, combined with the TCS it is effective at providing drive when required.

But you wanted suggestions.
1: An air operated multiplate clutch (as used in industrial drive systems).
2: Dog clutch system (used in boats for prop drives).
3: A manual system of plates and bolts.
4: A welder and a grinder :)

Actually a more thoughtful version of 3&4 might have some use, a bit like a diff lock. A modified VCU you could manually lock up relatively easily, positive drive to the rear wheels at even very low speed on slippery surfaces.

So maybe you did have a point :clap2:

[101RRS]

Just put a cdl out of a D1 in a piece of welded up pipe with a couple of bearings at each end and off you go :D

[landy63]

Have thought of several ways ie dog box , eddy current clutch , doctor the vcu , but am stuck with what would happen to wind up , Wheel slip may be enough to eleviate wind up in sand etc to protect ird and diff .

Got a basic l series xide with no tc etc, Only use it for shops, fishing , too good to sell and would get nothing for it anyway so, may as well keep it !

Al

[landy63]

Just put a cdl out of a D1 in a piece of welded up pipe with a couple of bearings at each end and off you go :D

Garry , Whats a cdl , d1 ??:confused: Al

[101RRS]

Garry , Whats a cdl , d1 ??:confused: Al

Sorry - CDL - Center Diff Lock - the majority of early Range Rovers and Discoverys and all D1 (the first series of Discoverys) have a constant 4wd system that provides constant drive to the front wheels via a center differential and as such like all diffs has the problem that it provides drive to the wheels with the least traction. To get around this problem a manual center diff lock (CDL) is fitted that can be activated when offroad to lock the diff - when like this the vehicle is like an early series landie in 4wd. The CDL mechanism in a discovery is a relativly small item that if installed in a suitable casing with drive in and out could in theory make the Freelander AWD vehicle in all drive circumstances (like a Discovery) with locked drive available when offroad.

Why are you concerned about the viscous coupling in your Freelander. For what it is, it works well. Simply put - when all wheels have the same level of traction - (on road or off) the VC is unlocked and there is no four wheel drive - the Freelander is front wheel drive - as soon as the front wheels slip they turn faster than the rears and the VCU detects this and locks and provides drive to the rear as well - this rarely happens onroad but obviously happens a bit offroad where the VC is locked and windup is not an issue as the VC constantly disengages but you also have wheel slip on the loose surfaces to take the windup out - just like a normal landie in 4wd.

Problems occur in the freelander when the VC fails at the end of its serviceable life and locks up causing windup - not a problem on the dirt but is on the road - is the same as driving a normal landie in 4wd on the tarmac - something has eventually got to give. Fortunately the VC does not just fail instantaneously - it gradually gives up the ghost - so if it is checked regularly and you look for the symptoms it can be detected before damage it done to other driveline components.

Cheers

Garry

[landy63]

Thanks mate , think my vcu is locked , done the the chalk test and went for a drive + plenty of movements on full lock in both directions , and chalk marks have not moved. Will jack it up in morning and chack using wheel nut . Al

[101RRS]

Thanks mate , think my vcu is locked , done the the chalk test and went for a drive + plenty of movements on full lock in both directions , and chalk marks have not moved. Will jack it up in morning and chack using wheel nut . Al

Try putting the steering wheel on full lock and then reverse slowly on concrete or tarmac. If the VC is locked the engine should stall or at least be heavily laboured like the handbrake is on.

If the VC is Ok there should be just a little load on the engine. When doing this, the front wheels turn at a different speed than the rears which the VC detects and starts to bind but not lock up - hence the little bit of load on the engine as there is just a little windup.

Cheers

Garry

[landy63]

Try putting the steering wheel on full lock and then reverse slowly on concrete or tarmac. If the VC is locked the engine should stall or at least be heavily laboured like the handbrake is on.

If the VC is Ok there should be just a little load on the engine. When doing this, the front wheels turn at a different speed than the rears which the VC detects and starts to bind but not lock up - hence the little bit of load on the engine as there is just a little windup.

Cheers

Garry

Gday , put a chalk mark accross damper & vcu and tested but marks did not change , then put marks on each shaft , retested and marks had moved , thought i read somewhere that the mark went across both damper & vcu but dont feel that is the case. Anyway went round in reverse as you described and felt ok , just a slight retardation , then jacked up rear wheel on one side and put a big socket on wheel nut and able to turn nicely and could feel vcu working , so i am happy that vcu is not locked. :D:D
Thanks Al

[101RRS]

Gday , put a chalk mark accross damper & vcu and tested but marks did not change , then put marks on each shaft , retested and marks had moved , thought i read somewhere that the mark went across both damper & vcu but dont feel that is the case. Anyway went round in reverse as you described and felt ok , just a slight retardation , then jacked up rear wheel on one side and put a big socket on wheel nut and able to turn nicely and could feel vcu working , so i am happy that vcu is not locked. :D:D
Thanks Al

Thats great - I have never done the chalk test myself just passed on what I was told - so marks on the damper may have been a furphy - marks on the UJs make sense. I always use the wheel and reversing tests myself.

I suggest that you check the VC regularly.

Cheers

Garry

[Mockery]

Hi, first time poster here...
The 2nd page of this thread has got me thinking expensive thoughts, was wondering if there is anywhere I can get more info on the green freelander at the bottom of the page? Just when i thought I'd read everything on the net about freelanders, it got even more awesome!

Mine is a 2005 3-door with the Td4, really happy with it so far but I'm not yet an 'experienced' offroad driver. Will drive it as is for now with my spare set of M/T's and maybe some strut spacers, but one day in the future I think some serious mods could be on the cards...

[101RRS]

Hi, first time poster here...
The 2nd page of this thread has got me thinking expensive thoughts, was wondering if there is anywhere I can get more info on the green freelander at the bottom of the page? Just when i thought I'd read everything on the net about freelanders, it got even more awesome!

Mine is a 2005 3-door with the Td4, really happy with it so far but I'm not yet an 'experienced' offroad driver. Will drive it as is for now with my spare set of M/T's and maybe some strut spacers, but one day in the future I think some serious mods could be on the cards...

Firstly with your car - all the issues are basically sorted - other than normal fair wear and tear you will not have issues with your VCU or IRD. The TD4 is the best Freelander 1 of the lot.

That green car is not Australian and was posted Beforethevision so he may have more detail. It looks as if that car has had both a spring spacer lift and bigger springs - and bigger tyres. This post at the top of the freelander section outlines issues associated with spacers. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/64773-freelander-1-bearmach-lift-kit.html

My own freelander is standard except for bigger tyres which by itself gives me nearly an inch lift but I suffer a bit in first and reverse as a result.

There are a few guys who give their Freelanders a good workout offroad - Beforthevison comes to mind and there is a hard core of us who regularly contribute to the forum so someone generally has some ideas or experience. I don't think we have too TD4 drivers though - v6s, L series Diesel, 1.8 petrol and a few FL2s.

Welcome and enjoy:cool:

Garry

[beforethevision]

Hi, first time poster here...
The 2nd page of this thread has got me thinking expensive thoughts, was wondering if there is anywhere I can get more info on the green freelander at the bottom of the page? Just when i thought I'd read everything on the net about freelanders, it got even more awesome!

Mine is a 2005 3-door with the Td4, really happy with it so far but I'm not yet an 'experienced' offroad driver. Will drive it as is for now with my spare set of M/T's and maybe some strut spacers, but one day in the future I think some serious mods could be on the cards...

The 'green' one is an early gold 1.8L freelander will all the running gear removed, and dumped on a RRC chassis. it runs ~33"s and a 3.9v8 (AFAIK). This would not be legal here for a number of reasons.

Without big money, this is about as mean as freelanders will get.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I second Gary's advice of a Bearmach lift, its the nice way to lift a freelander (despite a little cutting). However my biggest recommendation is armour.

See here...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/47960-freelander-mods-7.html#post855809

Cheers!

[Mockery]

Hi, is there any more updated info on the IRD ratios?
or more specifically, what was the front drive ratio changed from/to for the VCU fix post 2000?

Went wheeling today at Lancelin and ended up having to leave a guy's car behind after realising his freeby only had 2wd. No shafts under the car at all, he did well to get up the dunes he did! So can anyone say the best place to get parts like these in Perth?

I was wondering if the front/rear discrepancy could be remedied by using tyres of slightly different size between back and front... and whether it would be worth it...
Did I read somewhere from you, BTV, that the VCU's last up to 100,000km even with the original ratios?

[dirtsettlers]

The 'green' one is an early gold 1.8L freelander will all the running gear removed, and dumped on a RRC chassis. it runs ~33"s and a 3.9v8 (AFAIK). This would not be legal here for a number of reasons.

Without big money, this is about as mean as freelanders will get.
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9630/159903048gtz7smeg7.jpg

I second Gary's advice of a Bearmach lift, its the nice way to lift a freelander (despite a little cutting). However my biggest recommendation is armour.

See here...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/freelander/47960-freelander-mods-7.html#post855809

Cheers!

Is that what they refer to as the 'G4' Roof Rack fitted to the front vehicle?
I'm looking for one of those.

Regards

[beforethevision]

Is that what they refer to as the 'G4' Roof Rack fitted to the front vehicle?
I'm looking for one of those.

Regards


Im pretty sure its a Safety Devices rack, real nice, real rare, real expensive.

[dirtsettlers]

Im pretty sure its a Safety Devices rack, real nice, real rare, real expensive.


Thought as much...desperately seeking one.

[camel_landy]

Im pretty sure its a Safety Devices rack, real nice, real rare, real expensive.

Yep, Safety Devices.

They're pretty rare here in the UK... I don't rate you chances of getting one in Oz! If you _Really_ want one, then your best bet is to keep an eye on the 2nd hand UK markets. Either that or hope that Safety Devices starts making them again.

M

[dirtsettlers]

Yep, Safety Devices.

They're pretty rare here in the UK... I don't rate you chances of getting one in Oz! If you _Really_ want one, then your best bet is to keep an eye on the 2nd hand UK markets. Either that or hope that Safety Devices starts making them again.

M

I found a secondhand one here [ 4x4challenge.org • View topic - G4 Challenge Freelander Roof Rack (http://www.4x4challenge.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32&view=previous) ]. That's assuming it has not been sold (it's dated 2008). I think one needs to join the on-line group to be able to contact the person selling it. Please keep me in mind if you come across a second-hand one in the UK.
email George dirtsettlers"at"dirtsettlers.com

Regards