Now All I Need Is a Lancaster!

[Davo]

My grandpa was a Lancaster mechanic for the RCAF and so I was very happy to see this: Dingocroft (Penn Rental Service Ltd t/a) History, Expedition and General Interest Titles (http://shop.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/History_Titles.html) (scroll down a bit when you have a look).

It's a Haynes workshop manual for a Lancaster! I received mine yesterday and it's an excellent book. It's based on the English plane that is flown regularly, with a bit about the only other Lancaster still flying, which is in Canada. It's a bit tongue-in-cheek, of course, since it's just a little hard to find such an aircraft for yourself. You can certainly see how the country that built such a thing also built the Land-Rover.

Some worthwhile quotes:

"Common faults
Common faults with the Lancaster include minor oil and coolant leaks, which are generally rectified by tightening jubilee clips on rubber hoses."

"Tools and working facilities
A good set of BA and BSF spanners and sockets is essential, as is a good general purpose tool kit . . . The size of hangar required is determined by the size and height of the Lancaster, but remember that adequate space must be available to split the aircraft if necessary, to lift out the turrets, or to remove and refit the engines."

And from a pilot of the Canadian restored plane that flies every summer: "We generally choose not to fly in clouds or rain unless we absolutely have to because, to be frank, she leaks like a sieve!"

Sounds familiar if you own an old Series Landy.

When I used to live in Canada the one there would often fly right overhead in summer - it was quite something.

[isuzurover]

There is a (edit Lincoln) wreck in QLD. 2 engines are still there, plus a few other bits and pieces.

[3 Lions]

Before I emigrated here nearly 7 years ago I had seen (and heard) 'The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight' on numerous occaisions. This consists of an Avro Lancaster bomber, 2 supermarine spitfires and a hawker hurricane fighter, they make flights on special occasions. Absolutely awesome to see and hear going overhead, cannot help bringing a lump to the throat, seeing these go over you, the Lancaster being escorted by the fighters.And the sound of those Rolls Royce merlin engines.... Beautiful.:D:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Before I emigrated here nearly 7 years ago I had seen (and heard) 'The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight' on numerous occaisions. This consists of an Avro Lancaster bomber, 2 supermarine spitfires and a hawker hurricane fighter, they make flights on special occasions. Absolutely awesome to see and hear going overhead, cannot help bringing a lump to the throat, seeing these go over you, the Lancaster being escorted by the fighters.And the sound of those Rolls Royce merlin engines.... Beautiful.:D:D
Beat me to it.

There are still two flying examples of the Lancaster, this is the UK one:

http://www.bbmf.co.uk/images/lancheader08.jpg

"PA474 is one of only two Lancasters remaining in airworthy condition out of the 7377 that were built – the other being in Canada."

http://www.bbmf.co.uk/bomber.html

[Tusker]

Before I emigrated here nearly 7 years ago I had seen (and heard) 'The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight' on numerous occaisions. This consists of an Avro Lancaster bomber, 2 supermarine spitfires and a hawker hurricane fighter, they make flights on special occasions. Absolutely awesome to see and hear going overhead, cannot help bringing a lump to the throat, seeing these go over you, the Lancaster being escorted by the fighters.And the sound of those Rolls Royce merlin engines.... Beautiful.:D:D

Saw that display several times in the 80s. Included a Beaufighter then - whatever the twin engined wooden one was. Amazing how the sound differs between the singles, twins & 4 engined aircraft.

And there's Lancaster that's been restored now to a state it can taxi up & down the runway. Saw a vid of it a few months ago.

Regards
Max P

[UncleHo]

G'day Tusker :)

I think that the twin engined aircraft was the "Mosquito" built from laminated wood and Merlin powered,nick-named the "Wooden Wonder" :)




G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Nice pic of PA-474 in her new paint work, as the "Phantom of the Ruhr" which is the scheme that she will wear for the current season or so :)

The crashed aircraft that is on Mt Ceribus in Qld is a "Lincoln" the later version of the Lancaster with a longer nose and airframe but still Merlin powered :)


cheers

[Tusker]

That's it! Beaufighter was Bristol powered wasn't it.

Have very clear memories though of getting onboard the Lanc on display at Hendon. It's from my Dad's squadron - he arranged access. Not much room with the spar right through the middle. And only access through the piddly little door in the tail...

Regards
Max P

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Tusker :)

I think that the twin engined aircraft was the "Mosquito" built from laminated wood and Merlin powered,nick-named the "Wooden Wonder" :) ...I have heard from a friend deeply involved in historic warbirds restoration that there is at least 1 and possibly 2 Mosquitoes getting new airframes built in New Zealand. The problem with the original mosquitoes was not only the plywood construction but the natural glues used to hold them together, over a couple or three decades the airframes lost their airworthiness.

I may be wrong but I think that there isn't currently a Mosquito (aeroplane) still flying.

C Ya
Diana

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

Just a little bit of info for you warbird followers, the Beaufort that is being restored by Ralph Cusak at Caboolture Qld is hopfully on track to be flyable by 2011 for the RAAF anniversary :)

I was at the recent fly-in and there was a nice collection of warbirds there the weekend, Harvards, Trojans, Mustang (allison) Wirraway's, Austers J3 etc.Pipers,Cessnas, and Tiger Moths, plus the odd ex-Military aircraft.


cheers

[Landy110]

I've experienced the sheer knee trembling exhilaration of a single merlin engine screaming across an airfield at very low altitude and there is nothing like it!! (RIP Col Pay)
I have experienced the incredible Round Sound in quadraphonic in a low fast fly over in the form of "Connie" not a war bird but much like a B17 would have sounded I imagine.
But The sound of four Merlins in a lancaster must be incredible !!
I would love to experience that some day.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... I have experienced the incredible Round Sound in quadraphonic in a low fast fly over in the form of "Connie" not a war bird but much like a B17 would have sounded I imagine.
But The sound of four Merlins in a lancaster must be incredible !!
I would love to experience that some day.Connie was in fact a C-121c military variant of the Lockheed Super Constellation and was in the post-WWII USAF. While not a war bird, other C-121s were used throughout America's involvement in WWII and the post-war Berlin airlift.

Connie does smoke a lot when she first fires up doesn't she! :) :)

[ranger1]

Temora museum has 2 Spitfires that they do a flypass with on their flying days - that may be as close as we get to hearing 4 Merlins here. They did have a Merlin Kittyhawk too at some stage but don't know if its still there.

[Davo]

The "taxiable" Lanc is at Lincolnshire in the UK, and another one in Alberta, Canada, is having its engines done up so that they can be run.

I wonder how much work the Lancaster at the museum in Bullsbrook, Perth, would need? It amazes me that the rich of this country don't finance a big project like a full restoration of such an aircraft. It must be a lack of imagination or something. After all, though a massive undertaking it would be much more interesting than racing horses or digging up iron ore or whatever!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I understand that one of the big problems with the Lancaster is that they all suffered a lot of wing spar damage from the flack and while they allowed them to fly during the war, their airworthiness certificates were withdrawn very soon after. For example G for George in the AWM was withdrawn from active service during the war because she had suffered so much flack damage that she could only carry half her bomb load. She then came out to Australia to promote "War Bonds" and was still flying for some years after 1945.

There are however some NOS wingspars somewhere in the UK that were left over from some program to upgrade one of the Lancaster family. Not sure if it was the 2 engined Manchester bomber or the Lincoln or Lancastrian post war airliner.

Does anyone know what has happened with the B24 Liberator restoration happening in Melbourne?

[Col.Coleman]

Sorry Uncle,

The Lincoln is on Mt Superbus. Pronounced Superb-us. You pass it on your right heading up the the Head out of White Swamp.

Everyone knows where the Stinson is, and the Piper Comanche is in Brisbane Forest park.

If any-one ever wants to visit them just let me know.

Be warned though it is OFF-TRACK bushwalking through dense bush, forest regrowth and Lantana

CC

[Pierre]

Restoration at Werribee - www.B24australia.org.au (http://www.B24australia.org.au) , AFAICR.

Cheers

Pete

[paulthepilot_5]

Sorry Uncle,

The Lincoln is on Mt Superbus. Pronounced Superb-us. You pass it on your right heading up the the Head out of White Swamp.

Everyone knows where the Stinson is, and the Piper Comanche is in Brisbane Forest park.

If any-one ever wants to visit them just let me know.

Be warned though it is OFF-TRACK bushwalking through dense bush, forest regrowth and Lantana

CC

You Don't happen to have and accurate Lat. and Long. for the comanche do you? I found a little bit about it on the net, but no exact locations!

Cheers
Paul

[Col.Coleman]

Sort of. Even with the known location, You could be standing right next to it and not know due to the bush.

Pm me and when I find my notes I'll let you know. As posted, if you are keen I will take you there.

CC

[Tusker]

snip


G for George in the AWM was withdrawn from active service during the war because she had suffered so much flack damage that she could only carry half her bomb load.

Which was still effective.. by 1945 the Lancs were carrying double the designed payload!

Regards
Max P

[Hucksta]

That's it! Beaufighter was Bristol powered wasn't it.

Have very clear memories though of getting onboard the Lanc on display at Hendon. It's from my Dad's squadron - he arranged access. Not much room with the spar right through the middle. And only access through the piddly little door in the tail...

Regards
Max P

Well,

The Beaufighter was of course called a Bristol Beaufighter, not sure if that referred to the egine plants though ..... (rack brain, ...... oooh it hurts) no nothing.

Ever since i was a little lad I have been into everything to do with WW1 and WW11 and can reconise these old war birds by day or night when i see them. Anyway, the mozzie was also called the 'The Timber Teror' due to its light laminated plywood build, which made for a very fast and versatile aircraft. It was actually used extensively as a recon aircraft and fitted with cameras, it was also used as a 'pathfinder' and dropped flares on targets over Germany so the bombers had something to aim for (although bombers were also used for this, including the 'Lanc' and the Vickers Wellington). It also served as a light bomber, heavy fighter, night fighter and son. It was very quick and most of the time was able to outrun the german fighters.

I used to love the Lancaster, when a youngster and role playing I used to say to myslef if i wasn't fighter pilot i would have flown a Lancaster.

I agree 100% with an earlier comment about restoring these types of aircraft. If i had the disposable cash i would do it, as it was stated, it would be much better than spending millions on a 'chaf shredder' ......

[JDNSW]

One of the problems with operating Lancasters is that they are designed to fly with a single pilot plus F/E. It is unlikely that you could get approval to fly an aircraft of that size today, even on a permit to fly, with a single pilot. Conversion to dual controls is possible (I think both the ones that have been close to flying in recent years in Canada and UK may have been converted) but it is a major modification, which would probably involve the plane's weight in paper, quite apart from the actual work involved.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

snip



Which was still effective.. by 1945 the Lancs were carrying double the designed payload!

Regards
Max PWasn't it only the B IV, B V, B-VI, and B-VII, Lancasters with the Rolls Royce Merlin 85 engines and Hamilton-Standard "paddle" design propellors that were capable of the eventual "double the designed" bombload? Not the earlier variants.

Diana

[isuzurover]

Did the Lincolns and Lancasters have lucas electrics??? If they did it explains a lot :D - see below..


As with most multi-engined aircraft, the Lincoln had fully feathering propellers to minimize drag from a failed engine, and there were four feathering buttons on the instrument panel, one for each engine. During the ground test before take off, each button would be pressed momentarily to ensure the system was operating. Once the propeller began to slow down indicating correct feathering, the pilot would cancel the test by resetting the button. The propeller would increase revs again, and the test was then repeated for the remaining engines. The whole procedure took about 15 seconds.

One morning I was approached by an engine fitter who claimed that, during an engine run after a periodic inspection, he had pressed the feathering button on one of the four Rolls Royce Merlins to test the serviceability of its feathering system, and that the propellers on all engines had immediately feathered.

If this was true, the ramifications were frightening. It meant that if an engine failed in flight, and the pilot had to feather the propeller, there was a possibility that a latent electrical fault could cause all four engines to stop - from the push of one button. This gremlin was indeed a dangerous creature of which we had no previous knowledge in Australia.

I thought the engine fitter was having me on - until he bet me 10 quid he could reproduce the fault. We walked to the flight lines where the Lincoln was waiting, and I could hear slight clicking noises coming from under the engine cowls as the engines cooled down from their previous test runs. There was the usual smell of hot glycol, and heat waves shimmered from the top of the silver engine cowls.

It was over the century on the tarmac, and even hotter in the glass covered cockpit. The chocks were in place, and we climbed up the ladder leading to the nose escape hatch - the main crew entrance. The huge diesel external power cart belched black smoke as the engine fitter started first the starboard inner engine (called No 3), then the starboard outer, followed by the two engines on the port side. With the four Merlins now idling at 1500 rpm, we received the all clear behind to increase power for the feathering check.

The engine fitter then tested the feathering system of each engine in turn by momentarily pressing its feathering button, noting the rpm drop, then resetting the button. So far there was nothing abnormal. He then told me to select any feather button and press it - but with the proviso that once feathering had started, the button should be reset to within three millimetres of the normal position. I selected the feathering button for the port outboard engine and pushed it in.

The propeller started to feather normally. After the reset, with the propeller now returning to unfeather, I gently depressed the button again just a fraction - as the fitter had said. Nothing happened, and I looked at him and said, "what next?". He told me then to feather any one of the other engines. I closed my eyes and pressed a button.

To my astonishment, the propellers on all four engines rapidly went to feather. "That's 10 quid please" said the fitter....

We then tried various combinations of button pushing to try and reproduce the fault - and occasionally succeeded.

The feathering buttons were protected from inadvertent bumping by a metal cage surrounding the feathering panel. Each button had an integral fire warning light which could be dimmed at night by a small metal sliding bar situated

on the top of the button. Experimenting, we found that if the dimmer bar could be positioned to make contact with the protective cage, it was sometimes possible to feather all four engines with one button. We could not reproduce the fault on any of the other Lincolns. Clearly there was a gremlin at large in the feathering system of the first Lincoln. Or were there others lying dormant, only to wreak havoc on a dark night?

Meanwhile, I was down 10 quid, so I visited the Commanding Officer and suggested that for 20 sterling I could kill four engines with a single blow. He was about to call for those nice young men in clean white suits to come and take me away, until he realised I was serious.

After I had explained what I had seen, he accompanied me to the Lincoln for a demonstration. To our chagrin, neither the engine fitter or myself could reproduce the fault. We did manage, however, a lovely conflagration from the 12 open exhaust stubs of the port inner, due to my overpriming the already hot engine. As the CO was standing in the cockpit only 10 feet from the flames, he got quite jumpy and was about to abandon ship via the nose hatch when the engine finally started and blew out the fire.

The engine fitter was having one final fiddle with the feathering buttons, when a rapid noise decrease from the engines revealed all rpm decreasing rapidly. I hurriedly pocketed the 20 notes, and the CO disappeared into his castle to call a hasty conference with his Engineering Officer.

Weeks later, while the investigation into the mysterious featherings was still being carried out, serious corrosion was discovered in the main wing spars of the RAAF Lincoln fleet. The decision was made to ground them all. Most were eventually sold for scrap metal, while others were destined for fire crew practice. The investigation was cancelled, and as far as I was concerned that was the end of the story. Or was it?

In April 1996, 35 years after the Lincolns were grounded, I was browsing through the Sydney Bulletin while waiting to get a haircut. In it was a story of the sole survivor of a wartime Lancaster crash in 1942. Recounting his experience, he said:

"It was a low level night flight into Germany, but a problem developed over northern France. For some reason one engine stopped. The pilot told the engineer to feather it. He pressed the button to feather this particular motor and all four engines feathered off the one button. It left us with nothing but a full bomb load and plenty of petrol, so we just went down.

I baled out through the front hatch...the plane went over a small hill and blew up".

Later I contacted the survivor Mr Chris Jarrett, who lives in a NSW country town. He told me that the magazine story was true. Four days before the fatal flight, the Lancaster had belly landed, and had sustained some damage to the bomb bay. After repairs, the Lancaster went on a bombing raid, but several bombs failed to release. Obviously there was an electrical fault, and Jarrett thought that the feathering of all four engines on his flight may have been due to a wiring fault caused during the repair work in the bomb bay area.

A few months after talking to the Lancaster survivor, I read a book called "Flight of the Halifax" (the Halifax was another RAF wartime bomber) by a Captain Geoff Wikner who flew 67 types of aircraft as a ferry pilot during the war.

On page 144 I was stunned to read this description of a ferry flight that Captain Wikner did in a Lancaster:

"On 3rd of August 1944, I had a chit to deliver Lancaster No.13/455/c (a number I have never forgotten) from Strathaven to Scampton, with first engineer Gillespie. His duties entailed instrument checks, changing petrol tanks and ensuring the airscrews would feather and unfeather when required to do so. On occasions the switch controlling the feathering of each engine would stick, allowing the particular engine to overrun its maximum revs. To correct the problem the engineer would have to place two fingers under the feathering button and pull it out at the right revolutions. He also had to be ready to feather a propeller on any engine that cut on take-off.

Everything went smoothly during the early part of the flight. With a clear sky and good visibility, I thought it was a good time to test the engineer on the feathering routine.

We were cruising at 3000 feet and nearing our destination. No.4 starboard airscrew was feathered according to procedure. No.1 and 2 motor revs were then increased to 2600 rpm and plus seven pounds boost. No.3 airscrew was feathered correctly with the aircraft trimmed with maximum bias to port. We were now flying on two engines.

In one minute I gave Gillespie instructions to unfeather No.3 airscrew and watched him carefully. He turned on the fuel master cocks and placed his thumb on the No.3 button and pressed. I was watching the revolution counter when I felt a sudden swing to port. I looked out to see both airscrews feather and stop. No.3 unfeathered but the motor didn't fire. Gillespie then unfeathered No.4, the motor ran for a short period and finally cut out with a loud explosion as though short of fuel. While this was happening No.3 feathered itself with the result there were no engines functioning and I had control of an overgrown glider of about 30 tons. The wind was whistling around the aircraft and then the rudders were inefficient.

I unfeathered No.1 and 2 airscrews then instructed Gillespie to put on the fuel booster pumps and change tanks. While this was happening I think Gillespie was endeavouring to get No.3 unfeatherd again and then No.1 feathered itself. During all the motor juggling I had difficulty in maintaining a straight course, having to spin the rudder bias to one side or the other to meet the altering directions. I finally got No.1 unfeathered and running - this gave me two motors operating on the port side and two dead windmilling motors on the starboard.

Skellingthorpe aerodrome was within approach distance. I decided to leave the airscrews as they were fearing they might all feather again, and went in for a landing. I approached a little high and fast, and swish tailed the aircraft in an attempt to reduce speed, and finally made a three point landing without over shooting. When I finished my landing run, all four engines were ticking over. I taxied to the Watch office where I tested each engine with perfect results. Later the ground staff carried out the same feathering procedure as we had in the air but found no defect. The aircraft was placed under armed guard, and a test pilot from A.V.Roe, the manufacturer, was sent to finish the delivery. On hearing that good piece of news I said that I didn't care if JC himself wants to fly the plane, but I'm not.

I never heard what caused the trouble so I guessed it was hushed up. After my episode, I learnt that four Lancasters had crashed at different times and all the crews killed. Investigators found the airscrews in the feathered position.

Do you believe in Gremlins - Stories of 10 Squadron RAAF in Townsville (http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/gremlins.htm)

[VladTepes]

YouTube - Lancaster Bomber takes off from Guernsey (EGJB) (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MhF8CnJVQPQ)

YouTube - Avro Lancaster Bomber closeup sound flyby (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=D-UFCyrunpY)

and the best for last:

YouTube - Main Force Take Off (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=syvaXrGYDzE)

[3 Lions]

(For Lotz a landies- in relation to your earlier question). The B24 Liberator restoration is just up the road in Werribee, They are looking at having to move down the road to a new hanger in the near future as the area is earmarked for developement.The goood news is that the restoration continues and they are hoping to be completed in 5 yrs.

[Bigbjorn]

Nev. Morris of Dalby has a running restored Merlin ex-RAAF Mosquito in one of his sheds.

[Tusker]

YouTube - Lancaster Bomber takes off from Guernsey (EGJB) (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MhF8CnJVQPQ)

YouTube - Avro Lancaster Bomber closeup sound flyby (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=D-UFCyrunpY)

and the best for last:

YouTube - Main Force Take Off (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=syvaXrGYDzE)

Some good stuff there - mostly early footage by the look of the engines. Going to have to dig my books out now.

See the guns on them? When we got aboard the Hendon lanc, my Dad said the 303s they were initially fitted with were useless. Sitting ducks. When they were fitted with canon, they felt a lot safer.

The single pilot thing was a feature at the time, although approval from bureaucracy was a long time coming. The pilot could fly it like a smaller plane. Apparently the yankee stuff by comparison was very cumbersome. Lowering flaps meant winding crank handles etc.

Regards
Max P

[Bigbjorn]

From reading about them, the controls were aparrently very heavy and other crew members were called upon from time to time to add some muscle. Also there is a disability called Lancaster Back which is recognised by Veteran's Affairs as being a result of piloting Lancasters. Bad seating, heavy controls, and long hours without much relief as a result of the single pilot system were the contributing factors.