Td5s and Petrol just dont mix!

[Ticka]

Well, I did something very stupid on the weekend, and I feel like it's high time I fessed up...

On Friday afternoon I went to the servo to fill up the Disco because she was just about empty. While I was waiting in the cue, I noticed an elderly lady on the next pump struggling to screw the gas fitting onto the fuel tank of her XF Falcon, so I hopped over and helped her to connect it...

Then I went back to my pump and continued to chat to her about this and that; all the while casually filling my Td5 up with premium unleaded!

All the warning signs were there; the small nozzle, the price, the smell! Regardless, I filled her up from nigh empty and drove the five or so kilometres home.

Next morning when my girlfriend cranked the Disco over to head shopping, it was shuddering majorly at idle and seemed generally to be very unwell. Luckily she had the good sense to shut it off straight away... Suddenly everything from the day previous came rushing back, and I realized what a damn fool thing I had done!

Anyway... I syphoned the tank (quite a mission seeing as though it was almost completely full!), disconnected the fuel line from the fuel pressure regulator and purged the system with deisel. I also rinsed the fuel filter in diesel. I filled her to the brim with deisel and some diesel treatment, and then...

...with much trepidation, I fired her up. She spluttered a little bit, and blew a fair plume of smoke out the rear, but - fingers and toes crossed - I seem to have averted a major catastrophe!

I did a general search on Google, and mostly the prognosis varies... Some say that a little petrol through the system doesn't matter. Others maintain that it is the most horrendous of sins. Also, funnily enough, most people maintain that it was their wife, or mate, who did the nasty deed!!!

I appear to be the first AULROlian to have been such a tool... Hopefully I will be forgiven! And if not, at least I have enough lawnmower fuel to last a lifetime!

...

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

[Ticka]

Forgot to mention: I've done 100k's since and the Disco appears to be running sweet. I'll keep everyone updated, just in case the pump or some other component decides to throw in the towel!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I heard you mix "light" fuel with diesel to make it go better,,

maybe not in that ratio----:angel:

[Slunnie]

Soooo.......


How come you taking the grief for your wife? :D

[dmdigital]

Some years ago the (one and only) petrol station in town filled their ULP tank with diesel instead of the correct stuff. You should have seen the number of cars that filled up and got about 500m before dying:eek:

I'd say lucky you caught it when you did and good on you for owning up. I think a lot of others have done this and gone off to hide somewhere.

[Ricey]

I think a lot of others have done this and gone off to hide somewhere.


Kinda like me! Although I had mentioned it my NT ...Blockie trip report. I did it in Innaminck a couple of months ago, topped up already half a tank with 25 litres of premium unleaded before I realised what I was doing. Luckily that was before I finished filling so I hadn't started it. I paid a hefty price though, $1.95 cpl for the premium, $2.10 cpl for the diesel, $130 to drain - near on $500 for the mistake. I feel for you & hope there's no long term damage, good luck!

[B92 8NW]

Never put petrol into my diesel disco, but I did throw in a crankcase load of sump oil as I was saddened to see its energy content wasted:D.

[EchiDna]

I hope you filtered it!! used sump oil through your injectors?? eek....

[mcrover]

Geez well where do I start,

This has happend to a few of the machines I maintain over the years but 2 stand out for the sheer stupidity yet the sheer lack of mechanical damage.

# 1. Jacobsen GK5 greens mower, 3 cyl Kubota NA diesel, runs out of diesel on a certain inner city melbourne golf course green.

They ring me when I was in Geelong, I give then instructions on how to bleed it to get it going and so they tell me they will call me if they have any more trouble.

I get the call about 1/2 hr later, still wont go so they have dragged it off the green, this is a problem in it self as you need to resease the hydraulics to be able to move it so they have ripped up half the green in dragging it through all the fuel they have spilt while trying to bleed it.

40mins later I get there, from 100m away I could smell the ULP and here they were with the jumper leads from the bosses ute jump starting it because they had cranked the battery until dead.

I released the Hydrostat, towed it to the shed, roped off the green (which died and had to be massively reconstructed) with signs DO NOT SMOKE etc etc.

Drained the tank refilled with Diesel and bled and I couldnt even believe it.......it started.

It ran fine for another 3 years with no issues.

# 2. was basically the same machine just the update GK6, similar situation other than instead of running out, he decided to come back and fill up before he did but filled it with petrol not diesel.

Got to the other side of the course and half way through a green before it spluttered and cut out.

Same thing, drained and refilled (I was on site this time) and sure enough, it's still going, the engine seems to be the best part of that machine.

You may find that it may loosen off some gum and crap in the system but if it's running well now it should be ok.

Good on you for owning up to it, a lot of people wouldnt.:p

1 more comes to mind about the sump oil...

It isnt so much going through the injectors that you worry about, it's when a turbo seal goes and it gets atomized into the intake manifold and burned along with the diesel.

Problem being, while you have oil there you have no control so the revs just increase and increase until it either goes bang or it runs out of oil.

[scarry]

Ticka,you will be happy to know i did it once too.I was with the wife,pulled up,& filled up with unleaded.Luckily,she went to pay,and said to the attendent,the diesel pump.The reply was,no one has used any diesel .Yes the TD5was full of unleaded. :mad:

I pushed it out the way,and sent it on a tilt tray to the mechanic,with strict instructions not to start it.They drained the tank,changed the fuelfilter,gave me back the fuel,and lightened my pocket around $180,from memory.

The funny thing was my brother in law had done it to his GU Pootrol,around 6 months earlier,and we had been giving him curry about it for ages.

He had all sorts of trouble with his after nissan fixed it as they left the fuelfilter loose & it sucked in air months afterwards on a desert trip,and took a while to locate the problem.:(

[LandyAndy]

Pretty sure I have read on here the TD5 is smarter than the filler upperer.It will run like a sick dog on petrol but wont do alot of damage as the ECU is onto it:cool::cool::cool:.Anybody else remember reading the post or able to offer more info???
Andrew

[abaddonxi]

If you only drove five kms in it, at ten or so kms to the litre, you probably didn't actually get all that much petrol into the system.

Hmm, except for whatever overpressure got sucked up and sent back through return lines.:(

Cheers
Simon

[Ticka]

Thanks for all of the replies chaps... I don't feel quite so much like a pillock anymore.

I think the Td5 is definitely smarter than I am! And it wouldn't surprise me either... she just continues to impress.

As for the return lines, I think the filter caught most of it. When I emptied it the day after there seemed to be a fair quantity of petrol diesel mix. It fairly spewed out of the bottom, rather than the usual trickle.

Anyway... All appears to be well, and it will hopefully stay that way!

[PhilipA]

I can recall reading in an interview in a Pommy magazine with one of the project engineers that because TD5s have unitary injectors they can run on multi-fuels.
Apparently the Yanks run them on Jet A (kerosene) in Iraq and LR got the contract because of the capability.
While petrol is not Jet A , it highlights that TD5s are more tolerant than common rail diesels, as they do not have a pump which requires the lubricity of diesel to live more than a few seconds.
Regards Philip A

[zelko]

I can recall reading in an interview in a Pommy magazine with one of the project engineers that because TD5s have unitary injectors they can run on multi-fuels.
Apparently the Yanks run them on Jet A (kerosene) in Iraq and LR got the contract because of the capability.
While petrol is not Jet A , it highlights that TD5s are more tolerant than common rail diesels, as they do not have a pump which requires the lubricity of diesel to live more than a few seconds.
Regards Philip A

Thanks for that Philip A, it's amazing how things happen, a mate of mine was down with our mechanic and he got talking to an older guy helping out the mechanic which is ironic as he taught him everything he knows about Landrovers, anyhow he also was talking about how the US Army used kero in these motors.
Would love to get a hold of the article it would be a good and interesting read.

Zelko

[Ticka]

Well, I've done a few thousand k's since I filled the Td5 up with petrol, and it seems I might be finally facing the consequences... then again, it might just be coincidence.

Lately, when I turn the key to heat the coils, the fuel pump is whining as it primes. It's not a painful, or even a particularly loud whining, but it is whining nonetheless. And it only seems to happen after she's been sitting for a while - like first thing in the morning, or after work.

I was wondering if this might indicate that the fuel pump is on the fritz? And if so, how long might I have before it just throws in the towel?

I should also let you know that I serviced the Landy myself on the weekend. Is it possible that perhaps I've just let some air into the system when I replaced the fuel filter, or anything of the like? Rookie mistakes, I mean.

As always, any help and advice is greatly appreciated. And if this is the result of my erstwhile stupidity, I'll take it on the chin... I guess it's one of those self-correcting faults, after all.

Cheers,
Ticka

[Hymie]

Yer, I've filled my Mazda T3500 with ULP. I drained it at the servo as soon as I realise my mistake, one of my drivers did the same thing at the same pump a month later and didn't pick it up 'till clouds of white smoke billowed out the back heading down the highway.
Nowadays I always look for a diesel only pump and not one of the modern 3 in 1 combination pumps.

[spudboy]

How many Kms on your car Tika?

Could be just a coincidence. The fuel pumps seems to need replacing every so often even if you don't do the petrol thing. Mine is making similar noises at 120,000Kms and no petrol has ever gone through it.

[Ticka]

It's just ticked over 90,000kms Spudboy. It's been about 5000kms since I filled it up with petrol.

So do you think it is on its way then?

Also, does anyone know how I can get the fuel pump out without the LR-19-009 (the special tool for the locking ring)? Will a gentle tap with a screwdriver and a hammer do the trick?

[BilboBoggles]

Intermittent whining of the fuel pump at start up could possibly be the o rings in the fuel filters. Apparently if they crack - which they might do when exposed to petrol - they allow a small amount of air into the system which causes the pump to whine until it flushes the air out.

[Psimpson7]

There is a good chance that the pump could be on its way out I am afraid. As has already been said air into the fuel system can casue a whine, but so can a dying pump.

[spudboy]

It's just ticked over 90,000kms Spudboy. It's been about 5000kms since I filled it up with petrol.

So do you think it is on its way then?

Also, does anyone know how I can get the fuel pump out without the LR-19-009 (the special tool for the locking ring)? Will a gentle tap with a screwdriver and a hammer do the trick?

Not sure what the special tool might be. I've pulled mine out just by undoing the 6 bolts (allen heads? - can't remember) around the clamping ring. It just came straight out. I have a 130 TD5 so could be slightly different in a Disco....

[Shaker]

Kinda like me! Although I had mentioned it my NT ...Blockie trip report. I did it in Innaminck a couple of months ago, topped up already half a tank with 25 litres of premium unleaded before I realised what I was doing. Luckily that was before I finished filling so I hadn't started it. I paid a hefty price though, $1.95 cpl for the premium, $2.10 cpl for the diesel, $130 to drain - near on $500 for the mistake. I feel for you & hope there's no long term damage, good luck!

We were there when you did it!

Everybody seemed to very helpful, we certainly felt for you at the time.

[Psimpson7]

hammer and scredriver will do it.

[hoadie72]

Some years ago the (one and only) petrol station in town filled their ULP tank with diesel instead of the correct stuff. You should have seen the number of cars that filled up and got about 500m before dying:eek:

I had this happen to me when I had an RX7. I got about 10km before it started running really rough, engine needed heaps of revs to keep it turning over. Carbs and tank needed a full clean and I sent the bill to the servo, and a week or so later the fuel company's lawyer sent me a letter saying while they weren't accepting responsibility they would pay my bill so long as I didn't take further action. It's all I wanted and was happy with that.

[Ricey]

We were there when you did it!

Everybody seemed to very helpful, we certainly felt for you at the time.

Small world , eh! You wouldn't happen to be the guy I chatted to in the morning at the bowser driving a Disco?

It was a funny situation to be in, the manager was livid at me & his staff for having to get up from his sick bed, but at the end of it he was ok about everything.

[Shaker]

Small world , eh! You wouldn't happen to be the guy I chatted to in the morning at the bowser driving a Disco?

It was a funny situation to be in, the manager was livid at me & his staff for having to get up from his sick bed, but at the end of it he was ok about everything.

No, I was the guy asking you if you found the Disco TD5 to be OK & commiserating with your plight.

I have now bought one & am slowly forming my own opinion, unfortunately not too positive though.

[Ricey]

Troubles with it? I've had my fair share of issues, no doubt about that. Was a great trip though, jeez, now that I think about it - on that trip I had a stuffed rear prop c/o my mechanic, sagging airbags & troubles with my top rad hose & coolant alarm - still though, it was fun. :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/multi-state-reports/62938-my-nsw-sa-qld-nt-blockie.html

[vnx205]

Apparently the NRMA has had to rescue over 30 diesel owners who have filled with petrol at the new Woolies servo. It hasn't been open a year yet and that is only counting the ones who called the NRMA.

The problem seems to be that there is no separate diesel only bowser.

While there is that device on the diesel pump to discourage petrol owners using diesel, there is no device to help the diesel owners get it right.

[Shaker]

Troubles with it? I've had my fair share of issues, no doubt about that. Was a great trip though, jeez, now that I think about it - on that trip I had a stuffed rear prop c/o my mechanic, sagging airbags & troubles with my top rad hose & coolant alarm - still though, it was fun. :D

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/multi-state-reports/62938-my-nsw-sa-qld-nt-blockie.html

Mainly disappointed with the TD5 performance, although I did put the fan through the radiator during a river crossing, never did that before I got a Disco!

[Sprint]

if its any consolation, the local police do it to thier hiluxes on a regular basis!

[Ricey]

Mainly disappointed with the TD5 performance, although I did put the fan through the radiator during a river crossing, never did that before I got a Disco!

Lol, it never ceases to amaze me what can be done with a Disco! I think there was a fix for the fan, stronger blades? As for performance, it could be a number of things, MAF sensor, turbo hoses, fuel pump etc or if it is running sweetly but simply not grunty enough a chip upgrade can be done with excellent results. Good luck, & I hope you find some satisfaction in your ownership.

[Shaker]

Thanks! I am trying, basically I quite like the vehicle, although the rear vision for reversing out of awkward places leaves a lot to be desired.

I did notice that the new fan had slightly different blades, much bigger radius on the leading edge.

I will clean the MAF sensor this week, also looking to order silicone turbo hoses as mine do feel a little soft.
As far as chipping goes, do you have any recommendations around Melbourne?

[klappers]

I am yet to do this (petrol in the tank), but every time I talk to the Misses I get a shudder. She tells me that she is going to fill her up with petrol and come and pick me up from the airport.

[DiscoDan]

When I was way younger filled a VC Valiant with diesel, funny thing was it went harder on 50/50 mix blew a bit of smoke.:o

Took on a Monaro 186S and blew him away, next lights he asked "wot u got in it?"

"225 Perkins" was my reply.

Bugger to start but once running all was good:D

Didn't do it again tho.

When I was working in a servo as a kid one of the new fellas filled an engine with oil. When the dipstick was pulled out oil spurted out of the hole, from memory I think 6 to 7 litres and he still couldn't see the oil through the filler hole:D

[DJ1979]

My father filled his 80 series T/D with Diesel, got maybe 2km before it died.

Repair bill came in just under $4000..... apparently the petrol killed something and the flow on effect was not great...

[klappers]

My father filled his 80 series T/D with Diesel, got maybe 2km before it died.

Repair bill came in just under $4000..... apparently the petrol killed something and the flow on effect was not great...


DOHHHH!!!