Taking a P38A Rangie for a swim - advice please [Archive]

PaulP38a

24th October 2008, 12:11 AM

Hi all - I'm doing a "sand and water crossing" course with the Southern Tablelands 4WD Club in a few weeks. I think I'll be ok with the sand bit... drop tyre pressure, take a shovel, ladders and a snatch-em strap or two. It's the water crossing bit that has me worried.

I've done a bit of trawling though these forums on this subject. I apologise in advance if this has been answered elsewhere and I just didn't find the info I was looking for.

To date I've done some mild water work but nothing that involved extended periods of time in the water or depths that required bow wave know-how. I'm looking forward to learning, and would appreciate some advice beforehand on potential problem areas for the P38A.

Mine is a 1995 4.6L petrol V8 auto, Cooper ST tyres and Arnott Gen III air springs with Bilstein shocks. Some areas of concern that I would appreciate your views and experiences are:
should I plug/tape the drain holes in the doors? they don't seem to sit inside the rubber seals as far as I can tell.
are there any holes under the car that I should know about? I'd hate for the BECM under the driver's seat to get wet.
holes in the firewall?
where do the rear diff breathers vent to? should I extend them? I think the front diff and transfer case breathes in to the engine bay.
is it a good idea to disconnect the fans before entering the water? if so, please tell me how. Will this upset some computer in the car?
I noticed that the fog lamps on the front skirt have breathers/vents in them. Should I plug these?I recently subscribed to 4WD Action mag and am expecting delivery of the bonus Michelles Sacks Water Bra any time now. In case it doesn't arrive in time I've purchased a couple of heavy duty tarps. Suggestions on how to fit these over the factory brush bar (full width - around the lights) would be much appreciated too.

I'd like to get a snorkel (like that guy in Dubai made for his P38A) or preferably a removable one (like that one on the D3 Disco over at DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Removable Snorkel (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic14190.html)), but I have no idea of where to start here in Canberra.

Sorry to write such a long wish list. I love my Rangie and just want to take a few sensible precautions so it doesn't turn in to a very soggy and/or expensive weekend.

Many thanks in advance - Cheers, Paul.

Rangier Rover

24th October 2008, 07:18 AM

A P38 in deep water:eek: Sorry P38 fans but :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:You will only need a long tow rope:p

Scouse

24th October 2008, 07:48 AM

As this is part of a proper 4wd training course, I'm sure the water crossing will be well sorted & not too risky (I mean that there will be no unknown rocks, dips or anything else to get you stuck in the middle of it).

If that is the case, then I would think that a bra would be the only precaution required.

I haven't had mine in deep water, maybe just to the top of the wheels but I didn't have any water entry issues & I haven't really heard of others having problems either.

My advice is to let someone else go first though :D. Hook up a strap before heading in too if you are worried.
If the fog light breathers are easy to plug, then that might be a good idea but I've not seen water enter mine at all.

jsp

24th October 2008, 08:03 AM

did one deepish to me water drive - about 18-20 inches - no issues - but that was only with the door bottoms aboutan inch under.

but I found my lower tailgate seal was bad as I went up a steep slope at the end dunking the backend a bit deep and the spare wheel well had a few inches of water in it and the carpet around one end of the tailgate acted like a sponge....it all came out and was dried out as that part of the car rusts like buggery

mike 90 RR

24th October 2008, 09:35 AM

Hi all - I'm doing a "sand and water crossing" course

few sensible precautions so it doesn't turn in to a very soggy and/or expensive weekend.

Pack a beach towel & wear some bathers :p :p

Scouse

24th October 2008, 10:29 AM

I'd like to get a snorkel (like that guy in Dubai made for his P38A) I don't think I've seen that one - do you any info on this?

mike 90 RR

24th October 2008, 10:53 AM

Also ..... Get the spark leads and associated parts up to good / new condition .... give em all a coating of spray grease to make it all water proof

As this will be the main downfall in any subjects of water

PhilipA

24th October 2008, 10:57 AM

Also check the boots/seals on the height sensors for the air suspension.
They are known to leak.
Maybe smear grease all over em. Ditto the connectors for the auto trans.
Regards Philip A

Capstan

24th October 2008, 12:10 PM

Just drive the bloody thing though as is. She'll be right, mate.

Rangier Rover

24th October 2008, 01:08 PM

YouTube - Range Rover Sibbertoft (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SszXRCNCtnQ)

mike 90 RR

24th October 2008, 01:50 PM

YouTube - Range Rover Sibbertoft (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SszXRCNCtnQ)

:p and the owner was wearing the swim short's as I had suggested :p

Rangier Rover

24th October 2008, 01:57 PM

I didn't even notice:angel:

mike 90 RR

24th October 2008, 02:03 PM

AND if you want to do swimming as per the video ..... Look under your front seats and move the computer's and any CD players up high ..... perhaps up under the dash :(

Rangier Rover

24th October 2008, 02:11 PM

AND if you want to do swimming as per the video ..... Look under your front seats and move the computer's and any CD players up high ..... perhaps up under the dash :(

I'll second that as we near drowned our classic on Morton Island. Had water 2" deep in floor and ECU was still under seat:o:( We were very lucky she kept going. The amp on cd player went up in smoke though.:o.

mike 90 RR

24th October 2008, 03:01 PM

I'll second that as we near drowned our classic on Morton Island. Had water 2" deep in floor and ECU was still under seat:o:( We were very lucky she kept going. The amp on cd player went up in smoke though.:o.

I ain't buying your car :p .... Did you disconnect the battery straight up or just pull the plugs and dry it out ????

I went through the same deal .... THAT'S how come I know where the ECU is located :mad: ..... Except ..... I fried mine

Ohh well .... isn't that why I have 2 brothers that own Discos ..... To save my fuel & drag me out of the bush :confused: :D :p

Rangier Rover

24th October 2008, 03:22 PM

I ain't buying your car :p .... Did you disconnect the battery straight up or just pull the plugs and dry it out ????

I went through the same deal .... THAT'S how come I know where the ECU is located :mad: ..... Except ..... I fried mine

Ohh well .... isn't that why I have 2 brothers that own Discos ..... To save my fuel & drag me out of the bush :confused: :D :p

Drove it back to camp site, Pulled all carpets etc and bungs out. Pulled most plugs,ecu and relays and sprayed with WD40 then with lanolin. Awsome stuff at water proffing. Hve had the Rangie in deep water twice since and still going.
When the amp went up we pulled terminals. Then riped it out. Thankfully there was no carpet or plastic near it.
I have pics here of carpets out and a hose in doors etc trying to get all the salt out of it:twisted: I'll never sell it as will get used till death so doesn't matter. We all had a good laugh about the kids DVDs and wifes hand bag floating around in the car. The water even came through the vents:eek:
Sorry for Hijack :wasntme:so will leave it here.:)
Cheers Tony

mcrover

24th October 2008, 03:43 PM

I douthat on a course they will do a Deep crossing but if you do then a tarp will surfice but just make sure you secure it under the car so it doesnt tangle on anything and over the bonnet as far back as the windscreen if possible.

This will stop pretty much any water getting into the engine bay as long as you stay moving forward even fairly slow.

You wont need to remove the fans or disconnect anything and as far as breathers go, as long as it isnt going higher than the top of the tyres for very long then you should be right.

The trick is just to keep moving at a steady pace trying to keep the bow wave steady as too fast it will go over the bonnet and swamp you but too slow or stopping will fill the engine bay and in both cases your in trouble.

Good on you for doing a course, not too many people do them and end up learning the hard way......like me....:D

Ive always wanted to do one but cant justify the cost anymore.

strange_rover1

24th October 2008, 10:17 PM

The only advice I have been given as far as the P38 and water is concerned, is just dont go into water!! The electrics on the P38s is dodgy at the best of times so dont tempt fate by adding water into the equation. Just my 2 cents worth.
Shano

PaulP38a

24th October 2008, 11:14 PM

I don't think I've seen that one - do you any info on this?

Well, it was Abu Dhabi and the link is Snorkels for the Range Rover 4.0/4.6/p38 (http://www.rangerovers.net/outfitting/snorkels/snorkel4.html)

A more amusing one with a very colourful thread is at P38 Snorkel - Land Rovers Only - Land Rover Forum (http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f38/p38-snorkel-17029/)

It seems that the Disco2 snorkel by Safari might be a close fit... different bonnet though, might be able to mount it lower to account for the clamshell bonnet and then extend the snorkel height. Will see if I can find one and try it on for size. It's gotta look better than the ones in the links above - but full credit to these blokes for having the balls to give it a go.

PaulP38a

24th October 2008, 11:38 PM

Thanks for all the advice so far. This will be the second course I've done with the ST4WDC since joining early this year. There are a few Discos in the club but no other Rangies to swap stories with. The trips are well organised and the instructors are brilliant, plus the courses are included in the annual membership fee - about $300 for the first year and then about $100 after - not a bad deal at all in my view. If any of you folks are in the Canberra region, it would be great to have some more Rangies around for club meetings.
Advice taken on board so far:

Leads and plugs in my car are all less than 3 months old but I'll check anyway. I need a new cover for the relay/fuse box in the engine bay - some bugger broke it at some point and now it just flaps around.
Checking the height sensor boots is a great idea. This could be a real problem if the EAS goes in to fault mode while wading. Will also take laptop, funky cable and program to reset EAS and height settings should it occur. As a backup, I have also installed an EAS bypass that lets me inflate the bags manually.
I'll go find some Lanolin spray at the shop and give the electrics a good spray.
Will get a few towels and wrap them around the BECM under the seat just incase - I don't wanna be the guy in that video posted by Mike_RR_90! :eek:
I like the idea of letting someone else go through first. I think there are a couple of Prados going. If they can make it - the P38A will p*ss it in.
I'm getting some front recovery points fitted before I go and will probably lose the bottom lip on the front apron. Will attach a strap to these points before entering water.
Will have a close look at the tailgate seals. I know the top tailgate gets the occassional drip in heavy rain or a carwash so I wouldn't be surprised if the bottom does too.
will pack plenty of towels and spare clothes, plus a set of waders (we've got to walk the water crossing first). Might even pack the clothes in plastic bags for good measure, or attach the roof pod if I can be bothered..Many thanks to all - even the RRC owners who say don't do it - you know you want me to really - either to fail or succeed :D My two previous RRC's ('84 and '87 models) were both baptised in water at various times and performed brilliantly - I expect the P38A will be equally capable in water about/above the wheel arches as they were.

Cheers, Paul.

mike 90 RR

25th October 2008, 12:04 AM

A
Will get a few towels and wrap them around the BECM under the seat just incase - I don't wanna be the guy in that video :eek:

.... don't wrap em in towels / If water gets in ..... towels won't stop squat

You got me thinking actually .... Have a look at the Computers and see if you can unbolt them and then seal em up in a tough plastic bag /// Seal up the end of bag where the wires go in at bag entrance // strap package back in place

[/LIST]Many thanks to all - even the RRC owners who say don't do it - you know you want me to really - ....... - I expect the P38A will be equally capable in water about/above the wheel arches as they were.

Cheers, Paul.

Leave the waders at home .... God invented thongs & shorts for this purpose

P38 in water?? .... She will be fine :BigThumb:.... Remember to post the pictures of the action :burnrubber:

Mike :)

LOVEMYRANGIE

25th October 2008, 12:04 AM

YouTube - Range Rover Sibbertoft (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SszXRCNCtnQ)

:Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :Rolling: :clap2: :BigThumb:

Rangier Rover

25th October 2008, 07:39 AM

Just take a Ipod to listen to for the trip home;)
Don't be put off by us lot bagging the P38.
I think they are a nice Rangie with a few mods inc coil conversion. Sounds like you are aware off their faults anyway.
They would not put you in any danger when training drivers in 4X4.

We all seem to do the silly things after:angel: In my case a long way from home:eek:

I wasn't going to post up pics but The 1st is a high tide run at Moton Island. There was a chanel in it that put water partway up the windscreen for a short time. No snorkel:o We were very lucky the engine bay did not have time to fill with water.
The rest of it is on video.
The second pic is washing salt out.

Don't forget to post pics of yours in the water:D

Cheers Tony

PaulP38a

9th November 2008, 01:53 AM

These are not the pics I wanted to post of my water crossing course between Braidwood and Moruya.

Some better action pics should be coming soon from people standing on the river bank, but I hope the finale does not end up on YouTube.

First pic - P38 Rangie after doing 3 water crossings in depth up to top of wheel arches (on EAS high setting) with:
Arnott Gen3 air springs and Bilstein shocks;
Michelle's Sacks Car Bra;
new diff breathers extended to top of engine bay;
new front recovery points;
Silicon spray liberally applied to all electric bits in engine bay;
new front recovery points with equalising strap and snatch strap attached;
slight dampness at the edge of the carpet but no significant water ingress.Second pic - P38 Rangie after 4th (and final) water crossing to just under door handles:
water sucked in through air filter;
air box full of water;
water in cylinders and sump;
BeCM fried.Likely cause: the air intake is inside the wheel arch on the LHS. When the front LHS dipped just before stalling, the front LH wheel forced water up behind the bow wave and in to the air box.

When the car stalled, water began to seep in to the cabin. I immediately switched the ignition off, fearing the worst. When water hit the BeCM (approx 1minute), things started to short (wipers on, alarm on, horn on, gearbox faults, sunroof open and rear windows half-down, door speakers crackling, etc).

Worst of all - EAS went in to fault mode and the car lowered itself further in to the water!

Why do Land Rover put the most important bl**dy computer in the car in the worst possible position? No amount of towels or plastic bags was going to save to the BeCM today. It needs to be at the top of the dash or in the roof.

Finally out of the water we disconnected the battery, removed the spark plugs and blew lots of compressed air in and around the BeCM. I punched out one of the drain plugs in the spare wheel well to let it drain out the new wash tub that had formed in there.

We reconnected the battery after about an hour or so and the engine tried to crank without the key in the start position. Still stuffed and making nasty electrical sounds, plus a puff of smoke from the battery terminals!

Fortunately I have an EAS bypass system that lets me manually pump up the air suspension so I was able to raise the vehicle to a good height above the bump stops. A Land Cruiser with air lockers was then able to tow me up out of the river area back to the main track where a tow truck could bring me home. Despite no power, brakes and steering were very good.

Got it home tonight - drained the sump (first 2 secs was mostly water??) and began to remove the carpets. Need a Torx to remove the driver's seat so I can reomve the BeCM. Off to SuperCheap in the morning for a Torx, an oil filter remover and a some boxes to keep all the nuts, bolts and upholstery clips organised...

Despite this showstopper I am totally convinced that if the P38 had a snorkel this would not have happened. It was brilliant on the previous crossings - traction control and a steady bow wave kept it moving forward down/up the river.

IF I can get the car going again, I am definately getting a snorkel made for it, and some new door seals.

Finally, I am very grateful to the instructors and my fellow trainees at the Southern Tablelands 4 Wheel Drive Club for helping out today when all this sh*t went down.

I'll be back - hopefully in my Rangie, but maybe in a Defender or if common/commercial sense prevails in a 80/100 series Land Cruiser just 'coz they are so much simpler... maybe that's just the red wine and depression talking?...

Rangier Rover

9th November 2008, 08:57 AM

Opps:eek::eek: You were warned:angel: You want to dry it all out or ECUs will all fry. I hope for your sake not to much damage to the donk:(

Looking forward to action pics:cool:

PhilipA

9th November 2008, 09:20 AM

I have to say that the driver trainer of your club should have more brains than to expect a non snorkled vehicle to ford about 80CM.
Unfortunately you are now up for hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars in repairs, although you were warned.

You will also have to drain both axles, and I would also do the transfer. Your front unitary bearings will now probably die as there is no way to clean and regrease them. I am not sure whether you can repack the rear axle bearings. Maybe even the Auto trans fluid shhould be changed.

The ECU is actually sealed with an O ring, but beware that when you undo the screws a fluid will be released. This is an anti theft measure.

You also know I hope that ECUs are specific to the VIN of the car. I think that you will have to get a new ECU if yours is damaged, but not sure of this. At a minimum it will need coding by a dealer. My understanding is that the ECU of another car will not work and you will need a new one.
The above is stuff I have gleaned from reading references and mags so may not be accurate , but I think it is.
It's pretty serious stuff to drown a 38A
Regards Philip A

Psimpson7

9th November 2008, 09:50 AM

Bad luck, having said that if the water was just under the door handles, thats pretty deep and I wouldnt put any 4wd through that without a snorkle I dont think.

80cm is deeper than any current std 4wd can wade as far as I can remember. (manufacturer specs)

With regard to the ecu positions, they cant really do anything else due to the wiring looms. They may be able to seal them up, but then you get condensation in them which casues other issues. (you think yours is bad, on a td5 defender the engine ecu is in the seatbox under the drivers seat, and they had to lift it up on a small plate to ensure that it would run in 500mm when left stationary.

Good luck sorting it out.

You arent the first person on this forum to drown a p38. His also lowered itself when it happened.

Scouse

9th November 2008, 01:07 PM

Sorry to hear that it all went pear shaped Paul but I would never have expected driver training to involve over a metre of water, especially when they know the car doesn't have a snorkel.
Were they trying to see what would stop your car deliberately ?

If you went through insurance with this repair, it'd be a write off IMO.

andrew e

9th November 2008, 02:15 PM

Any Insurance?

mike 90 RR

9th November 2008, 05:04 PM

Sorry to hear that it all went pear shaped Paul but I would never have expected driver training to involve over a metre of water, especially when they know the car doesn't have a snorkel.

If you went through insurance with this repair, it'd be a write off IMO.

Paul

I'm mortified by the posting of your days result ... And also thought it was "Controlled Basic training"

81stubee

9th November 2008, 08:37 PM

I'm impressed:

1. That the P38 lasted up to the top of the wheel arches. :thumbsup:

2. Somebody had the balls to try that deep a crossing in a P38:o

It doesn't sound right that a Training course would allow a Non-Snorkled car to cross something that deep, I bet they were just trying to see what would stop it, and let me guess the response was "Bloody Rangerovers have too much electronics, unlike my Nistoy that never breaks down!"

I'm still impressed you got that far

Stu

PaulP38a

10th November 2008, 12:23 AM

This is the progress I've made today after visiting the auto shop to get a couple of Torx drivers for the seats, engine oil and some storage/organiser boxes to keep all the removed bits sorted:
all seats removed. a little damp at the bottom but I think they will dry out fine. Not so confident about the motors and memory for the front seats;
BeCM removed from under driver's seat;
EAS, Gearbox and Transfer Case ECU's, plus some chunky relay removed from under passenger seat;
rear carpets and underlay all removed
subwoofer and (unused) CD stacker removed from rear;
door panels, speakers, amps removed
plugged sump and filled with fresh oil;
couldn't remove oil filter so punched a hole in it to drain - no water evident there - good news I guess;Front carpets a being a real pain. Looks like I need to remove underside of the dash and centre console all the way to the front. By midnight I'd had enough so I've propped up the carpet/underlay with blocks to let them drain a little until I can get back at tomorrow.

Tailgate is totally useless. I have found no way to open it. If I can figure out which wires operate the solenoid I might be able to apply a small volage drop to operate the button. A task for another day...

I'll make some calls in the morning to see if I can send the BeCM and ECU's off somewhere for a health check. Any suggestions for the Canberra to Sydney region please? If further away, someone who is really good and reasonably priced?

Sorry to hear that it all went pear shaped Paul but I would never have expected driver training to involve over a metre of water, especially when they know the car doesn't have a snorkel.
Were they trying to see what would stop your car deliberately ?

If you went through insurance with this repair, it'd be a write off IMO.

Hi Scott - I've had a closer look at the water line on the car and I reckon it's about 3 inches below the door handles and just above the wheel arches. I reckon the car nose dived to the left (rock, log, hole?) which caused the water to air intake problem.
I don't blame the instructors at all. They were making allowances for less capable vehicles in the water crossing by moving to lower and higher ground - a Kia Sportage even made it through - how embarrasssed am I? The only other vehicle that had trouble was the Rodeo that towed me out of the water. His push button 4WD-2WD selector got stuck - probably due to water soaking the solenoid while waiting to hook me up.

BTW: the water crossing was approx 200m taking an S curve up and down stream.

I'm pretty sure my insurance won't cover recreational 4WD'ing although I do have full comprehensive insurance with NRMA. The tow truck driver reckons I would be insured if it was on a road but it would be written off since water entered the cabin.

PaulP38a

10th November 2008, 12:37 AM

I'm impressed:
1. That the P38 lasted up to the top of the wheel arches. :thumbsup:

2. Somebody had the balls to try that deep a crossing in a P38:o

Stu

Cheers Stu - the Rangie had no problems at all with the 3 previous crossings. I've got to wonder if water was slowly getting thrown up in the the air filter box until it got too much for the filter to handle, and the 4th crossing was the point that the filter gave up.

I'm impressed:
It doesn't sound right that a Training course would allow a Non-Snorkled car to cross something that deep, I bet they were just trying to see what would stop it, and let me guess the response was "Bloody Rangerovers have too much electronics, unlike my Nistoy that never breaks down!"
Stu

Not much of that went on - well, in front of me and to my knowledge anyway. They are a good crowd and everyone pitched in to try to get me moving again.

If and when this P38 swims again, it will be with a snorkel and the EAS on bypass mode.
Cheers, Paul.

Scouse

10th November 2008, 07:34 AM

Tailgate is totally useless. I have found no way to open it. If I can figure out which wires operate the solenoid I might be able to apply a small volage drop to operate the button. A task for another day...
I'll make some calls in the morning to see if I can send the BeCM and ECU's off somewhere for a health check. Any suggestions for the Canberra to Sydney region please? If further away, someone who is really good and reasonably priced?

I'm pretty sure my insurance won't cover recreational 4WD'ing although I do have full comprehensive insurance with NRMA. The tow truck driver reckons I would be insured if it was on a road but it would be written off since water entered the cabin.
Tailgate: 'andrew_e' had success I believe with a small 10mm spanner to remove the striker bolts through the panel gaps.
Also, if you can send me your email address, I'll send down a copy of the wiring diagram for the tailgate.

BECM repair: LAB Electronics in Mittagong (Lee Bourgeois) will be the man to talk to.
LAB Electronics Electronics for the Automotive Industry (http://www.labtronx.com.au/)

Insurance: I know one member on here suffered a very similar fate with an Explorer that was covered by insurance. Hopefully he'll be here soon & able to help with more info on his circumstances.

andrew e

10th November 2008, 07:38 AM

I'm pretty sure my insurance won't cover recreational 4WD'ing although I do have full comprehensive insurance with NRMA. The tow truck driver reckons I would be insured if it was on a road but it would be written off since water entered the cabin.

It would be worth try to ring up (not giving your name) and asking. If worst happens it would be written off and you are given first option of buying it back. NRMA are one of the best insurances to have in terms of not stuffing you around when you make a claim (even off road).

Andy

PaulP38a

13th November 2008, 12:46 AM

Haven't been lurking here much in the past few days, most evenings spent pulling stuff out of the Rangie and tonight piling it all back in after drying it out. It is being towed to Canberra Motor Works in the morning for assessing.
NRMA have agreed that the car is covered for off-road use as I was using a gazetted road/fire-trail - that is some good news.

We are yet to see if the Ray at CMW and the NRMA Assessor agree that it can be repaired or if it will be written off. I'm hoping they repair it as I've spent way too much time and money on it over the past few years to let it go for a lousy $12.5k payout. Examples:
engine replace/rebuild in 2004 = $12k
misc cruise control, climate control and electrical issues = > $5k
GME UHF radio in Feb 2008 = approx $1k
5 x Cooper ST tyres in April 2008 = $1.5K
crank position sensor, engine and exhaust issues in past 6 months = > $3k
Arnott Gen III airbags and Bilstein shocks in past 3 months = > $2k
custom rear bar and tyre carrier last month = $2.5k
DVD/MP3/iPod stereo in 2006 = > $1k
hand made sheep skin seat covers, floor mats, water-wading blind, wind deflectors, 3rd roof bar, EAS emergency override system, additional front recovery points, and misc "stuff" off eBay = $LOTSAnyway, I guess I'll get a verdict in the next couple of days and then make a decision about what to do if it is a write-off. If it is a reparable write-off I may buy it back and get Ray to fix the bits he can and I'll do the rest as a project (it's got NSW rego until Aug-09 but I suppose that's worthless if it is written off). If it is not reparable, I'll salvage what I can and look to buy another one.

I'd really like a RR Sport (2nd hand of course) but I don't think there is much in the way of aftermarket off-road stuff for them yet, so I guess I'd be looking at another P38A or even getting another RRC.

Cheers, Paul

BTW: I've attached a pic of the Rangie dead in the water as it was about to be towed out. I'll also try to get a vid-cap of the shot where the nose dove in to the water just before it stalled.

Scouse

13th November 2008, 07:55 AM

andrew e

13th November 2008, 08:18 AM

Paul, I would say that the NRMA would write the car off, especially with the electrical dramas.

Talk to the assessor though - hopefully they'll be agreeable to you buying the car back rather that having it go through auction, especially now that you've started getting parts for it.

Also, where the recent accessories added to the policy?
If not, remove them quickly !!

I agree with Scouse, repairable writeoff, and you will have first choice of buying it back. However, what ever you do, DO NOT let them take it away to their yard/holding center if you want to buy it back, as their employees quite often remove accessories and radios (i have even heard of cases where they swapped mags with new tyres, with stockies and bald tyres).

I agree though, remove that rear bar if you can, before the assessor sees it, because if it is bolted on the car they can claim it as theirs (they have also been known to write cars off with minor damage, as they can get alot more money for the wreck with accessories).

Most of the accessories you mention can be removed/swapped if it is a writeoff though.

Good luck,
Andy

Utemad

13th November 2008, 08:49 AM

I'm not surprised NRMA covered it. A guy in our club rolled his Hilux in a private pay to enter 4wd park up here. Absolutely destroyed it. NRMA paid out.

If it was me I'd want that to be a write off so long as I could get the wreck back. Then take the money and buy another one for stuff all and swap the stuff over and have a heap of spares.
Otherwise you will be forever fixing niggling problems and electrical faults.

As said though. Remove anything that isn't on your policy as a precaution. Plus it would bring down your buyback price.
Take a heap of photos before it is taken too (after you've removed stuff). Just in case stuff does get knocked off.

As for not having a snorkel. I've had both my Rodeo and Discovery (petrols) over the bonnet in water without snorkels or blinds and never had a problem. The Rodeo showed signs of light spashing into the airbox but that was as far as it got. They were never more than about a 15m crossing though and I didn't stop.

DirtyDawg

15th November 2008, 08:05 AM

No sympathy, little book in the glove box has a page with fording limit/height...exceeding that is just asking for it....plus where did you think the engine was getting its air from at a crossing of door handle height:confused:.

Your common sense should have over rode the self proclaimed "4wd instructors" directions.
I suppose they all had diesels with snorkles, 2nd gear low range maintain a constant speed as to create a bow wave..blah blah blah....:mad:

PaulP38a

16th November 2008, 10:55 PM

No sympathy, little book in the glove box has a page with fording limit/height...exceeding that is just asking for it....plus where did you think the engine was getting its air from at a crossing of door handle height:confused:.

Not asking for sympathy mate. Just sharing my experience and hoping it doesn't happen to anyone else. I expected some ribbing but your comments are just rude.

Page 190 of P38A Owners Manual recommends 0.5m as the "maximum advisable wading depth", which is about 2 thirds of the height of the tyres, but then goes on to give suggestions if the depth is likely to exceed 0.5m - all of which were followed except for momentary dipping of the front LHS and the air intake... bad judgement on both my part and the instructor at that point in the river... but hey, sh*t happens and it's only a car. No one was hurt.

I'm upset about the car of course (it was my favourite toy) but I'll either get it fixed or I'll get another one. In fact, today I bought a 1991 Suzuki Sierra soft-top to have some fun in while I wait for the verdict on the Rangie. Basic car? Hell yeah, and I'll probably have to put some effort in to taking it places that the Rangie just took in it's stride.

If I had a 2006 Vogue like you I'd probably be far more careful with it than I am with the P38A - just doesn't seem right to put a new-ish L322 through the same stuff as as 13yo P38A. An L322 is potentially on my shopping list if I can find one for sale in Canberra - the local LR dealer is all out but will happily sell me a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for about half the price. Tempting, but I am accustomed to the capabilities and creature comforts of a Rangie.

I'm curious now that I'm considering an L322... does the L322 actually have a wading limit or just a recommendation like the P38A?

Blknight.aus

16th November 2008, 11:46 PM

the maximim reccomended fording height has always been 500mm or about 20 inches which is about level with the diff breather.

however you can set them up to go deeper and push them deeper without fording prep but as youve found out, the results arent always cool...

which reminds me one day I must do the "emergancy snorkle prep" lesson for all the suzi owners.

PaulP38a

16th November 2008, 11:55 PM

which reminds me one day I must do the "emergancy snorkle prep" lesson for all the suzi owners.

OK Dave, you got me. What's the "emergency snorkel prep" for Suzi owners? Water wings/floaties, or holding your breath? :D

cheers
Paul.

mike 90 RR

17th November 2008, 09:03 AM

. Just sharing my experience and hoping it doesn't happen to anyone else.

And a emotional one it has been

the air intake... bad judgement on both my part and the instructor at that point in the river...

And I have a bucket load of words regarding this

but hey, sh*t happens and it's only a car. No one was hurt.

And that is the best attitude for anyone with a love for adventure

today I bought a 1991 Suzuki Sierra soft-top to have some fun in

With cut guards & large tyres .... it would most probably run rings around most things

An L322 is potentially on my shopping list

I'm curious now that I'm considering an L322... does the L322 actually have a wading limit or just a recommendation like the P38A?

I take it that is the "latest shape Rangie"

Don't know much about the mechanics or specs on this .... But from looking at them on the street ... the first thing that stands out are those over sized rims with the low profile tyres ..... I don't think you can deflate them

So it would be the ability to get rid of the low profile tyres and put proper Mud or sand A/T's on them ... that can be deflated

Mike

:)

Blknight.aus

17th November 2008, 06:28 PM

OK Dave, you got me. What's the "emergency snorkel prep" for Suzi owners? Water wings/floaties, or holding your breath? :D

cheers
Paul.

hope someone brings a stock suzi powered county/deefer to the trip this weekend and I'll do it, someone else can take pics /vids.

dck7aok

17th November 2008, 07:25 PM

finally put up some pics....

Picasa Web Albums - Daniel - P38 Snorkel (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/dck7aok/P38Snorkel#)

DirtyDawg

18th November 2008, 06:30 AM

L322 book says 700mm maximum fording depth. and not all L322 have pimp tyres on the 19" standard rims...A/Ts go on easy enough.

Scouse

18th November 2008, 07:22 AM

finally put up some pics....

Picasa Web Albums - Daniel - P38 Snorkel (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/dck7aok/P38Snorkel#)Noice - that's the best looking P38 snorkel I've seen yet :).

adm333

18th November 2008, 08:02 AM

Wow, thanks for sharing this story.

I am interested to know what option you went with for recovery points on your P38 ?

Got any pics ?

Dave

mike 90 RR

18th November 2008, 08:13 AM

L322 book says 700mm maximum fording depth. and not all L322 have pimp tyres on the 19" standard rims...A/Ts go on easy enough.

I just noticed your range of cars ....

1998 Defender Tdi with the workz
2006 RangeRover Td6 Vogue L322
1998 Discovery Tdi*SOLD*

:)

Leo

18th November 2008, 05:25 PM

Bad luck mate, hope you manage to fix your P38!

L322 book says 700mm maximum fording depth. and not all L322 have pimp tyres on the 19" standard rims...A/Ts go on easy enough.

I think 700mm is only the post face-lift model (2006+?), the new Disco and RRS are 700mm as well. Don't know about the L322, but I do know that the Disco3/RRS bodies are watertight to the point that they float if the water is deep enough :angel: . Still need to waterproof some of the modules and fit a snorkel for deep wading though.

PaulP38a

20th November 2008, 11:07 PM

Wow, thanks for sharing this story.

I am interested to know what option you went with for recovery points on your P38 ?

Got any pics ?

Dave

Hi Dave
Attached is only pic I have where you can see (part of) the front recovery points... they're the red bits under the front spoiler. This is the last picture of my beloved Rangie before it got towed away last week. The way things are looking I won't be getting it back :(

The guys at Hume Off Road in Canberra removed the original tie-down points, then bolted and welded these aftermarket recovery points on. They hang low enough to allow to attach an equalising strap without having to remove the front spoiler.

They worked a treat when the Rangie sunk in the river and was snatched/towed out, again when it was towed uphill out of the river area, and then 2 more times when it was hauled up on to tilt-tray tow trucks.

At the rear, I have used the hitch on the towbar to pull other vehicles - remove the tongue and secure the snatch-strap with the pin. The rear bar also has two recovery points but I never got a chance to try them out.

cheers
Paul.

996TURBO

11th December 2008, 01:04 AM

finally put up some pics....

Picasa Web Albums - Daniel - P38 Snorkel (http://picasaweb.google.com.au/dck7aok/P38Snorkel#)
Hi Daniel,

I really like your mod. Almost stock
May you share some infos?

coil converted or OEM EAS rangie?
mod on the patrol GU (Y61 in Europe) snorkel?
How did you route the tube in the engine compartment to the airbox?

Cheers

Florent

dck7aok

9th February 2009, 05:06 PM

still eas, arnott bags and longer shocks and slightly modded bumpstops. Dual locks and is used for um "unintended off-roading". Piping is run under the guard above the plastic inner guard(which needed heating and stretching in one position). Is not visible. 2.5 inch aluminium pipe with silicone elbows. Hope this helps

Captain HSE 4.6 2000

17th February 2009, 12:07 AM

Where did you cut the panel i.e did you cut the bonnet or the side panel as the mount on the GU snorkle seems high ? Can you post any internal photo's please.

Cheers CAPT

dck7aok

17th February 2009, 04:38 PM

Sorry didn't take any photos. Stupid I know.... holesaw through the guard. gu snorkel needs to be modded. seal the existing hole and make new one as low as possible. I used 2.5 inch al pipe and sikaflex with rivets. Good luck. Not too tuff.

rovermech

20th February 2009, 02:02 AM

A snorkle we did a while back..................New P38A Snorkel - Page 3 - Land Rovers Only - Land Rover Forum (http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f38/new-p38a-snorkel-17965/index3.html#post167693)

PaulP38a

20th February 2009, 02:32 AM

A snorkle we did a while back..................New P38A Snorkel - Page 3 - Land Rovers Only - Land Rover Forum (http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f38/new-p38a-snorkel-17965/index3.html#post167693)

Hi Rovermech
Love your snorkel and front steering armour. I want them both please.... :)

What is your price/vice? My "new" P38A is in need of both.

Cheers, Paul

rovermech

20th February 2009, 02:48 AM

Hi Rovermech
Love your snorkel and front steering armour. I want them both please.... :)

What is your price/vice? My "new" P38A is in need of both.

Cheers, Paul

All the bumpers and sliders came from www.rockrover.com snorkle was a custom job we did at my old shop....trying to see if we can get a kit together at my new shop.

RR Beast

9th June 2014, 09:48 PM

Unfortunate Paul, I feel your pain. This little adventure in a puddle cost me big$$$.
It wasn't that deep but water leaked in through the door seals and soaked the 15 million computers in the cabin. The becm is under the drivers seat and sent everything crazy. The horn was stuck on, wipers going, lights on etc.

The funny thing was that were were on our way to get some family photos and I took a cheeky detour on the way. 1130 that night we got home with the Rangie dumped on the front lawn soaked to the bone.
Ahh good times...

Keithy P38

10th June 2014, 11:25 AM

That'd be another P38 to the "drowned" list!

Sad to hear mate... Hopefully yours is repairable!

Mine and Paul's were both written off, but we both have P38's still! Keep on truckin!

wayneg

10th June 2014, 12:54 PM

mtb_gary

10th June 2014, 02:38 PM

Sorry to hear of your woes. Cant recall where I read it but someone has definitely taken out their drowned BECM, opened it up, cleaned, dried and refitted it and all was good. It was done out in the bush as well.
The insurance company's will write off any water damaged vehicle regardless.

Rovermech

Sorry to hear of the drowning. I can only imagine how popular you were getting the wife and kids to jump into the cold muddy water :(.

Likewise I remember the story and the pics. The drivers seat came out along with the BECM. The BECM was washed with clean water from someone's drink bottle. Then using compressed air carefully blow dried the clean board, the car started and was back and up and running (not sure about the long term effects). The bit that I cannot recall though is was the car running when the muddy water came into the cabin (like yours) or was the car switched off. Either way it could still be worth trying depending on the insurance outcome and where the car is located.

Gary