P38 4.6 What would you do?

[81stubee]

Need your thoughts. She started using more water than usual last week, so i pulled the heads off on sunday. Its a 97 HSE 4.6

Heres what I found:
- Trumpets in plenum chamber loose, could not push it back in, has been loose for a long time, judging by the rub marks on top of the chamber.
- Carboned up, everything is black, I have only ever pulled down gas engines which are clean, but this appears real dirty.
- Valley cover was seized on, and had to be prized off, so i guess its never been off.
- HEad gaskets carboned around firing ring
- No.4 is washed nice and clean
- Some of the lifters are slightly concave.
- Evidence of water on the edge of No.4 Liner

What should I do?
- Put back together new gaskets and hope it lasts a bit longer
- Flanged Liners etc
- Complete new motor

Car has done 260000kms and body/interior are perfect.

Stu

[p38arover]

Stu, to put it back together with just new gaskets would be a waste of time and money.

At that mileage, it could use a new cam and lifters.

Check the top of all liners, especially no.4, to see if there has been any movement of the liner, even a poopteenth.

This is a pic of a bad 3.9 I photographed:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

You could get top-hat liners fitted with your existing pistons.

Scouse said:

For the top hat liners, give Balmain Engineering a call. You might be pleasantly surprised.

They were cheaper than the two quotes I received (from Davis Performance Landys and Triumph Rover Spares who were almost the same). George130 said he knew of someone in Canberra - see http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/65227-recommendations-please.html

Give me a call if you want to talk about it.

Ron

[big guy]

Have the block checked also.
i had a slipped liner and water escaped through a cracked block.

Did total rebuild and was great car.

Sold it to a guy that really wanted it.

sadly, the problem re-occured. Not sure why though.

Best of luck.
do it properly once.

[p38arover]

big guy, had yours been fitted with top hat liners?

[big guy]

No.
New short motor.
just bolted rest of gear back on after clean and polish.

[PhilipA]

What should I do?
- Put back together new gaskets and hope it lasts a bit longer
- Flanged Liners etc
- Complete new motor

I go for 2.
Regards Philip A

[Rangier Rover]

You have done well to get this far with a 4.6. They are very prone to shifting liners if ever warmed. As others suggest.... In a 4.6 Top hats.
A band-aid job will only bite you worse by destroying the engine completely:(
Tony

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

You have done well to get this far with a 4.6. They are very prone to shifting liners if ever warmed. As others suggest.... In a 4.6 Top hats.
A band-aid job will only bite you worse by destroying the engine completely:(
Tony
As above. Another option is to step the block at the base so the liner sits on top. Have a customer who has had no comebacks when doing this for 2 local LR mechanics here in WA.

[Rangier Rover]

As above. Another option is to step the block at the base so the liner sits on top. Have a customer who has had no comebacks when doing this for 2 local LR mechanics here in WA. I've not seen this done with Rover but sounds like it would work.:) May be cheaper than T sleeves.

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Think its easier than trying to get the flange faces to meet. If I ask him nicely, he may let me take pics of what he does.
If I remember correctly, the liners also have a small flange at the top, but are slightly thicker and a bit shorter. It allows for the step to be machined at the bottom.

Personally, I prefer the flange method as you are not counterboring the whole parent bore which is thin enough already IMHO and the fire ring crushes against the flange providing a seal that does allow gas to cross the liner/deckface contact point, but the above method allows for support at both ends of the liner.
You see this done a bit in large capacity diesels, but is normally in wet liner engines more so than dry liner. :)

[Slunnie]

I'd buy the 4.6 that Andrew_e (ebay: son of bundalene) has and just swap the motor. :D

[andrew e]

that sold ages ago slunnie (it was just waiting to be picked up), but there may be another in its place soon.

Andy

[Scouse]

that sold ages ago slunnie (it was just waiting to be picked up), but there may be another in its place soon.

AndyHmm, another green Autobiography? ;)

[p38arover]

Stu, before spending too much on your motor, after you get the heads off, have them checked for hardness (It's a simple non-invasive test). If the heads are soft, they will need to be replaced, too.

That motor does sound dirty and as if it has had long periods between services - even though it was previously owned by a LR specialist. Maybe it got that way before he bought it and on-sold it to the chap from whom you bought it.

Yesterday, I had a look at another one that had the heads off. Yours sounds like it as far as sludge goes., It had been regularly serviced but at 10,000km intervals. It has around 250,000km on the clock and the lifters are stuffed. The cam needs replacing, too.

I believe my P38A had been overheated before I bought it and that was the cause of the coolant problems which made us think of head gaskets. When we pulled the heads, I could find nothing wrong with the gaskets, so I fitted new ones, a new cam, lifters, chains, etc., and buttoned it up. That was before the slipped liner problem was well known.

I guess the problem with any second hand motor is knowing its provenance. Has it been overheated at some time? Does it use water? If you want to sell it on, do the cheap fix and sell it to a dealer. If you want to keep it and can do the engine change yourself, maybe a second hand motor, at the right price, could be a stop gap whilst you rebuild the original up to the specs you want, e.g. different cam, port matching/polish - all stuff you can do at home if you have the time.. Then you can refit it and flog off the other motor.

[Utemad]

Sounds like the perfect time to do that LS1 conversion you wanted.

[andrew e]

Hmm, another green Autobiography? ;)

yep. exactly the same as the one i am doing now. ;) more bloody green leather seats that no one wants. :wallbash:

Actually i almost got 2 today, but the auctioneer was bouncing dummy bids off the walls with the other. :mad:


Stu, if you do need a stop gap motor while you rebuild yours give me a pm, i will have one next week (providing it compression and gas tests ok).
Andy

[350RRC]

Chev.

[Scouse]

more bloody green leather seats that no one wants. :wallbash:

Hmm, I wonder how Rioja Red would look with a green interior ?
:angel:

[81stubee]

Chev.

Yeah Yeah, one day, turns out marks 4WD don't make engine mounts for P38's, I think i'll just build up a really good 4.6 and don't really have a good workshop for fabrication any more.

Stu

[81stubee]

Ummed and arred for a long time, bouncing ideas off different people and so forth. General Consensus was to pull the motor. Found 4 liners had dropped approximately 0.25mm, No.4 of which you could see where the chemiweld was sealing around the liner. No to mention that it also has a cracked flexplate. So I now have a 4.6 sitting in the corner of my shed, ready for some cash to be spent. I would really like to put in an LS1 but the cost just seems to sky-rocket, when for the same money I could have a really good 4.6.


Stu, if you do need a stop gap motor while you rebuild yours give me a pm, i will have one next week (providing it compression and gas tests ok).
Andy

Did you get my PM?

Stu

[mike 90 RR]

Ummed and arred for a long time, bouncing ideas off different people and so forth. General Consensus was to pull the motor. Found 4 liners had dropped approximately 0.25mm, No.4 of which you could see where the chemiweld was sealing around the liner. No to mention that it also has a cracked flexplate. So I now have a 4.6 sitting in the corner of my shed, ready for some cash to be spent. I would really like to put in an LS1 but the cost just seems to sky-rocket, when for the same money I could have a really good 4.6.



Did you get my PM?

Stu

These are 4.6 blocks ... Brand new in a crate

4.6L 4 bolt V8 blocks - Part Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=20)

And this is a 4.6 complete with a new short motor

4.6 litre complete engine - Part Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=33)

Mike

:)

[p38arover]

These are 4.6 blocks ... Brand new in a crate

4.6L 4 bolt V8 blocks - Part Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=20)

They've been out of stock for a long time. (See the website)


And this is a 4.6 complete with a new short motor

4.6 litre complete engine - Part Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=15&productid=33)

Mike

:)

Note the rockers on the engine in that pic. Roller rockers?

[mike 90 RR]

They've been out of stock for a long time. (See the website) Didn't see that part ... need thicker glasses :(




Note the rockers on the engine in that pic. Roller rockers?
I noticed that too .... I took the photo to be a indication of the motor

Was just trying to give "a little ray of sunshine :cool:" on the subject of "all is not lost ... there are / gotta be options" ;)

Mike

:)

[p38arover]

Yep, I understand, Mike. I looked at that, too, when I rebuilt mine. I asked about blocks when I was there in May last year. They had one block (the top lot, I assume) left but it wasn't for sale.

They showed me through the engine rebuild area (they were doing a P38A at the time) and I was going to get them to top hat mine. In he end, mine was done by Davis Performance Landys (after I found out they could do it) as they were close by.

I wonder how reliable the later blocks are? In the US, LR were selling new short motors for US1,000 for a while!

[mike 90 RR]

I wonder how reliable the later blocks are? In the US, LR were selling new short motors for US1,000 for a while!

At that price .... Sounds like a version of "disposable" .... Guess you would have to drop onto a LR USA forum and ask the Q

BUT when you think about, what it really costs to mass produce, & the country that houses the factory that makes them ... It shouldn't cost much $$, wholesale "per item" in the first place :confused:

AS a matter of interest ... Where (country) are these motors made anyway???

[rovercare]

How much would you be willing to spend to fit an LS1?

I'm interested in helping out for a very low hourly rate, more for my own curiosity and the fact an LS1 P38 gives me a chubby:twisted:, the fitting is an absolute piece of cake, the interfaceing is the problem, I'd be inclined to utelise existing Injection and retune to suit, as its very similar in regards to the fact it has coil packs, knock retard etc etc

I've even got a spare Chev adaptor plate here, just need to get a boss machined up, make some mounts and its sitting in the hole:)

[p38arover]

Not to mention that it also has a cracked flexplate.

Stu, did you see my post here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/range-rover/66549-p38-engine-removal.html#post845089

[Camo]

How much would you be willing to spend to fit an LS1?

I'm interested in helping out for a very low hourly rate, more for my own curiosity and the fact an LS1 P38 gives me a chubby:twisted:, the fitting is an absolute piece of cake, the interfaceing is the problem, I'd be inclined to utelise existing Injection and retune to suit, as its very similar in regards to the fact it has coil packs, knock retard etc etc

I've even got a spare Chev adaptor plate here, just need to get a boss machined up, make some mounts and its sitting in the hole:)

Would love to see if anyone has done this conversion.. would be absolute brilliant

Camo

[p38arover]

Would love to see if anyone has done this conversion.. would be absolute brilliant

Camo

See index (http://ls1-power.com/)

[loanrangie]

Surely Overfinch have done an LS1 to P38 conversion ?

[russa]

Hello Stu,

I recently had a 4.6 rebuilt for my LSE. I bought a slipped liner engine from A well known repair shop in Melbourne...they had a stock of them at the time. I stripped the engine and took to MotorImprovemnts in Melbourne’s south for some lovin'. Another mob in Melbourne’s east is Crankshaft Rebuilders, but any good engine reconditioner’s can do this type of work. Although I stripped crank out, I took it with rods and Pistons for cleaning...Now for list of work completed.

Remove all Welch plugs
Full chemical and Steam clean
Initial pressure test to identify leaking cylinder. MI have a bolt on kit that the can pressurise the engine with boiling water to about 50% more than what the engine would normally see. I had one leaking cylinder; mate John had 2 leak in his 4.0ltr.
Bore out leaking sleeve
Weld cracks behind sleeve
Rebore to suit new sleeve, prior I had asked MI if a normal sleeve was as good as top hat, he said of course, just some like the added security. He said they put them in tighter then Rover did and said he’s not had any return. I’ve done about 10k’ and a mate has had his several years so I think he might be right. But the beauty is the straight sleeves are cheaper..>!!
Of course if bores are badly worn like yours may be, you will need all eight done back to standard, or to suit your pistons. Oversize pistons were VERY expensive when I was looking so I opted for a light hone….all is good and cheaper option. Cost was a problem for me..
Decking. Will clean up mating surface for new head gaskets, but may also remove your engine number..!! They can do it without…
Final pressure test….for obvious reasons.

I also had my heads tested for hardness…or softness as it may be, by a ‘head mob’ in Box Hill. Apparently they fire a ball bearing at the head and inspect the dint..! Obviously a soft head will have a larger hole…result on your car is you wont be able to tension head down or they wont stay tensioned. Ask the head joint to clean rocker, rocker covers and heads in their baths.. Working with clean stuff is the way to go…

I don’t remember exact cost as they also supplied some other bits like shells etc. But I think a full set of 8 liners was about 8 or $900 fitted. Good option I think.

So bottom line is do it yourself, get it out, find out who Cooper uses…he might tell you…or someone here will know… mine took a week to do…all the best

Russell
LSE torque monster..! well compared to the old 3.9 anyway.

[81stubee]

Well here's an update:

I'm finally in a position to do something. Have been speaking to many different people, and have finally decided to have it rebuilt. The GENIII Idea was great while it lasted but in the end all I could see was $$$ signs and my other half ringing me everytime she broke down. I also had a friend of mine who's a mechanic have the heads pressure tested for hardness etc... I also asked advice on what to do with the heads. A week later the heads came back, ported and polished, completely re-done, I had not asked for this:mad: but anyway here they are.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9820/headsx2hn1.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2972/undersidecv3.jpg http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8840/portsne4.jpg

Is it normal for the ports to be left with the grind marks??


For the main work I have pretty much settled on TRS in Adelaide doing it. They seem to know what they're talking about, and have been very helpful.

They want me to just send them all the bits, including the heads and he will put it all together and I will end up with a very nice long engine, just bolt on the manifolds and flywheel. They will have to retest the heads, which is fair enough, i'm just wondering whether I should try and sell them and buy some 2nd handy's, I will find out tomorrow the final costs and details.

Should I go for High Comp?
Should I Chip it?

Any suggestions?

Stu

[PhilipA]

Is it normal for the ports to be left with the grind marks??

To me that is a VERY sloppy job, and I hope they have not had that grinder around your valve bowls. The apprentice must have had really weak wrists.

All they have done is take the entry to the ports out a bit. That is not a "port and polish" and really achieves very little unless you open out the manifold around the injector bosses to suit, and make sure that the inlet gasket does not intrude into the port.

Hey but you didn't PAY $1000 per head I hope for a real head modification and if that is all they did then it didn't do any harm..

Regards Philip A

[81stubee]

I hope they have not had that grinder around your valve bowls.
I can see grind marks right into the ports, behind and around near the valve stem. Can't actually see the valve bowls as it has been put together.

I am about to pay $690 for the job, does this sound fair? I wish he hadn't had them done this far, but this is a friend of mine and I don't want to damage the friendship. Especially when TRS say they will do it all again anyway.

Stu

[mike 90 RR]

I am about to pay $690 for the job, does this sound fair? I wish he hadn't had them done this far, but this is a friend of mine and I don't want to damage the friendship. Especially when TRS say they will do it all again anyway.

Stu

Friendship is one thing ... Money is another ... So it depends on what you value most

As far as the value for labour of lapped valves, facing of heads & some porting work .... Sounds alright .... Job well done, is another matter

Let TRS decide ....

Mike

[81stubee]

I couldn't help myself and started playing with my Dremel :o

Now the idea is that i'm porting the manifold to match the heads/inlet gasket, and then hopefully polishing the inlet tracts. Now am I talking out of my backside and wasting my time, or is this going to make an improvement.

The process i used was to trace out the manifold gasket, and then get stuck in with the dremel with a milling bit (or whatever its called) the sanding drums and the flap disc.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2505/img3135.jpg

Am I wasting my time?

Stu

[sclarke]

What your doing is right. Port matching makes more diffence than just taking some lumps out.

BUT every rover v8 i have done a valley gasket on does not line up anyhow... alot of trial and error.

Exhaust is easier as it is not being pulled down when you tighten it, its being pulled flat.. makes sence???

Clarkie

[81stubee]

Thanks for that, don't know whether I can be bothered polishing all of them, as I don't seem to be able to get into #1 and #8 with the dremel. Any Ideas?

Finally the motor has left, after two days of waiting. Now I can just spend the time cleaning up the manifold.

Stu

[81stubee]

I thought I had better give the engine builder a call as they were meant to call once they tested the block and diagnosed what was wrong. So I called the other day. They had already started machining the block. When were they going to call me! :mad: So I rang today, and the quote they sent me is for low comp. grrrrrrr

Question 1 - Low 8.35 or High Compression 9.55 which will add another $880?

Question 2 - What will GEMS do with High Comp? Will it be able to compensate enough without a Chip?

Question 3 - Who has experience in this, I'm getting 10 different stories from 8 different people?:o

HELP!! I'm going Nuts

Stu

[sclarke]

Seems like your about to get taken for a ride....

Did you get what your asking for in writing??

Most people wont get anything in writing as a hand shake deal is "Suppose" to be worth more than the code of male honour.

if i was about to spend alot on a engine rebuild, id be asking for all the specs to be in writing....

[81stubee]

Thanks for that, yeah OK, I understand that the WHOLE GOD DAMN WORLD IS F$%c#D, and no-one can be trusted, so why dont I just try and rip someone else off $#$##kkldfs. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: I'm very frustrated.

First I get ripped with the car, now i'm trying to get it fixed.

I have it on paper now, so that's why i'm asking the question.

Question 1 - Low 8.35 or High Compression 9.55 which will add another $880?

Question 2 - What will GEMS do with High Comp? Will it be able to compensate enough without a Chip?

Question 3 - Who has experience in this, I'm getting 10 different stories from 8 different people?

HELP!! Pleasseee, I'm going Nuts

Stu

[p38arover]

I've now got HC pistons in my ported GEMS 4.6 and a Stage 2 cam.

No change in the ECU but I do plan to fit a Haltech Interceptor (KRudd's paying for it).

[PhilipA]

With 9.55:1 you will need ULP at least and probably 98 octane, which will limit where you can buy fuel.

GEMS is very sophisticated and should compensate , as long as you do not do silly things like try and run 91 . The ECU should advance until knock then the sensors pull it back.

Whether the Low comp advance algorithm is the same as the HC, I doubt anyone in OZ will know as they were never sold HC in OZ.

There is a guy named Marc Adams in UK who is the guru on this and makes the Tornado chip fro the 14CUX.
I suggest you contact him and ask whether the ECU needs a chip or reflash and go from there, or contact RPI who are one of his retailers.
Regard sPhilip A

[81stubee]

Apologies for my previous post, I was a little tense.

Thank-you to Phillip and Ron,

They are the helpful kind of responses. I have made a mistake in that I am more often than not, i am too trusting. I should of gotten them to write down, what they were going to do, but as my motor was in pieces and unknown condition, it was a bit hard.

So for my next question, excuse my ignorance, but with knock sensors and EGO sensors shouldn't the ecu be able to compensate for whatever fuel I run?

I spoke to someone on another forum who had contacted mark adams about this issue, who seemed to think it was ok, as long as I reset the adaptives.

Stu

[PhilipA]

So for my next question, excuse my ignorance, but with knock sensors and EGO sensors shouldn't the ecu be able to compensate for whatever fuel I run?

Sure it will go well, and on the fuel side should give a pretty well perfect outcome.
However I would think that any changes to the program would be on the timing side.
If the tuning of the low comp is "Rest of World" like a 14CUX, and I think it is, then the timing may be quite conservative to account for low octane fuels available in Khazakhstan or one of the other Stans. Even with knock sensors etc if too much timing is programmed then there will be problems. So it may be that the timing is retarded vs what is possible.

So the high comp timing may have more advance. The engine will still run fine but if you want max power and economy, a chip may be able to be set on the dyno to give a close to optimum result.

However it may not be worth doing as Ward at Graeme Cooper has told me the gains on a low comp are quite small.
Over to you.
Regards Philip A

[p38arover]

I haven't noticed any knocking on ULP but then I mainly run on LPG.

I often top up with PULP as I don't use a lot of petrol so the cost spread over 3-monthly petrol top-ups in not a worry.

[81stubee]

Does yours have the oxygen sensors?

My only concern is, what will happen if I am in a remote area and can only get regular unleaded? Can you get octane boost or something that can be added to the tank?

Stu

[Hoges]

"With 9.55:1 you will need ULP at least and probably 98 octane, which will limit where you can buy fuel.....as long as you do not do silly things like try and run 91 "

Not sure what's meant here: regular ULP is 91 Octane....

The Commodore LS1 runs 10.1:1 compression. GMH clearly state that 91 Octane is quite adequate and that higher octane fuel is not necessary...I run the Commode on 91 ULP ...

With knock sensors and oxygen sensors the GEMS system should be quite capable of managing ULP (91 oct) with a 9.55:1 compression. 95 Octane would probably be better in that the knock sensors wouldn't have to work as hard...:(

A compression ratio of 8.35:1 simply means that the engine will be less stressed...should run "forever" if well looked after. :) How often do you need the few extra kW ...

[p38arover]

Does yours have the oxygen sensors?


No, there are no O2 sensors on an Australian '95 model. I don't think Aust got them until the '99 Thor models.

[andrew e]

No, there are no O2 sensors on an Australian '95 model. I don't think Aust got them until the '99 Thor models.

They got them between mid 96 and early 97 from the cars i have seen lately. It came in before the minor update in 97 (seats and aircleaner).

However all p38s have the plugs for them, they are just have nothing in them. They are clipped onto each side of the sump.

Andy

[PhilipA]

Not sure what's meant here: regular ULP is 91 Octane.

Just a seniors moment.. I was trying to remember the acronym for UnLeaded premium 95 (ULP?) No its PULP.

I think you will have trouble with 91 on a High comp engine, just based on reports of friends with high comp Discos who have trouble/pinging with 95 PULP.
The Commodore has a FAR newer combustion chamber design than a Rover /Buick V8 and a 5.7 v8 in a 1600Kg body does not have to work as hard as 4.0 in a 2300Kg or so body.
Its just a consideration if you intend to go bush.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

PS, you can reduce the CR by grinding the shrouding out of the combustion chamber around the inlet valve. Theoretically this is desirable anyway as distance of the chamber wall should be the same as valve lift, and on a Rover it sure isn't.
You can remove probably 5CC from this area which would bring your CR down by about 0.5 points to say 8.75 , which should enable 91 octane.
Regard sPhilip A

[rovercare]

Just a seniors moment.. I was trying to remember the acronym for UnLeaded premium 95 (ULP?) No its PULP.

I think you will have trouble with 91 on a High comp engine, just based on reports of friends with high comp Discos who have trouble/pinging with 95 PULP.
The Commodore has a FAR newer combustion chamber design than a Rover /Buick V8 and a 5.7 v8 in a 1600Kg body does not have to work as hard as 4.0 in a 2300Kg or so body.
Its just a consideration if you intend to go bush.
Regards Philip A

It will be fine, the knock sensors will alleviate all pre ignition

I'd still run the better fuel personally though, as the knock sensors prevent the engine from pinging, but also allow much higher timing to be utilised on quality fuel, but filling up with 91 if its all thats available, won't be of concern

[81stubee]

Thanks for all the help, I chose to go with High Comp, and I brough a faultmate, so I can reset all the adaptives.

Heres an update,

Engine arrived on Wednesday night. I came home from work early so I could be at home when the courier arrived. Hung around until 4:45 when I thought I had better ring TNT to find out whether it was still coming. This is what the conversation consisted of:

ME - "Just wondering where my package is?"
TNT - "It left Campbellfield at 5:30AM"
ME - "Well where is it?"
TNT - "Its back at campellfield"
ME - "Why?"
TNT - "No Reason, it went out on the truck"
ME - "So, it just got on a truck for a ride around the suburbs. Why was it not delivered?"
TNT - "No Reason, you can pick it up from the Depot"

ARrrrrrhggghhh!!! So I drove over to campbellfield, which took about two hours. Got there and the forklift lifted it onto the trailer. Geeee that timber pallet looks a lot smaller than the steel cage one I sent it on. TRS decided that they would like to keep my pallet. GGGRRRRRR!!

So anyway I finally started putting the manifolds on today, here are some pics at the end of today's work.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2493/img3228e.jpg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2336/img3227y.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3875/img3229z.jpg

The last pic, is of the pieces of the Jigsaw puzzle, still to be put together. At this point I can't recommend TRS for their management skills, However I do firmly believe that the Motor they have built for me will be absolutely fantastics. Once the motor is running I will be able to comment further.

Here are the specs:
Rebuilt and Top-Hatted Block
PC216 Camshaft
New Lifters, Chainset
ARP Head Studs
New 9.55:1 Pistons
All asssembled and sealed to a long motor (just bolt on manifolds)
Total cost was just over $6000 AUD inc transport.

On a happier note, my faultmate arrived on Friday , so I'm just waiting on the activation codes.

Stu

[big guy]

Good to hear and hope all else goes well.

[81stubee]

It's in.... well sort of. After a weekend spent in the garage we finally started lifting it in to the car at about 2:00pm today.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4146/img3233t.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7831/img3234l.jpg

After much jostling around we finally had it sitting on the mounts half an hour later, by 3:00pm I started aligning the dowels to the gearbox and bolting her up. Does anyone know of an easy way to do up the botls. I could get to the top two and the bottom two, but the remainder seem to be very challenging. With a thud and a pinching of my palm, it finally closed the gap. We then bolted the torque converter up, and bobs your auntie, I started plugging things in. Tomorrow after work I will have another go at those hard to get bolts, and then its a matter of going over every bolt with the torque wrench.

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I'm not trying to get it done for easter as it will have to be run in. What reccomendations on OIL should I used for the run in period? How long should it take? Any special precautions I should take before I fire her up?

Cheers

Stu

[Hoges]

Some suggestions:

1. Oil: unless TRS tell you different, don't use a full synthetic for your new engine. Fill it with a good mineral-based oil such as Magnatec 10-40.

REASONS:

(a) you need the rings to bed into the cylinder walls properly...for this to happen they need to actually "wear in"

(b) the P38 doesn't have roller rockers... the "flat" faced lifters are actually machined when new with a slightly convex base because they need to be able to rotate slowly as they ride the cam lobes to minimise pitting. similarly the pushrods also need to be able to rotate.

Full synthetic oils such as mobil! are too slippery ...they preclude wear and rotation... in a new engine. (I hear that OEMs bench run their engines with mineral oil for this purpose and put full synthetic in after delivery...)

2. Don't fit the spark plugs until you have put oil in the sump and rotated the engine manually to get the oil circulating. I usually fit the serpentine belt then, using an electric drill with a 3/8 drive and socket to fit, I attach it to the alternator pulley retention nut with a u/j if necessary and turn the engine over a number of times in an effort to get the oil moving.

3. The first thing to bed in are the lifters/cam lobes. So when you are ready to fire it up for the first time, get it up to 1500 rpm and keep it there for 20 mins. If you have to shut it down, just turn it off, don't let it idle first.

4. Keep the revs below2500-3000 for the first 1500 km. Don't drive at steady revs for prolonged periods but try and vary the revs. Use reasonably long steep descents, holding the speed by engine compression, to lubricate the upper cylinder area (the oil is sucked into the upper reaches of the cylinders by manifold vacuum...)

5. Change the oil and filter at 1,500km (use same oil spec as before)

6. After 1,500 km gradually increase the revs to 4,500-5000 occasionally until you fell the engine has loosened up...then drive as normal!

Hope this helps

good luck!

[Hoges]

The Commodore has a FAR newer combustion chamber design than a Rover /Buick V8 and a 5.7 v8 in a 1600Kg body does not have to work as hard as 4.0 in a 2300Kg or so body.
Its just a consideration if you intend to go bush.
Regards Philip A

Good point... "mea culpa" ...I didn't quite think it through ....:blush:

cheers

hoges

[81stubee]

:):):D:D IT RUNS!!!

Fired her up this afternoon, sounded awful for the first few minutes, oil pressure came up right away, and then ran at about 2000 for 20 minutes, after about 10min it rapidly quietened down. Just took it out for a gentle drive (still haven't let it idle for more than about 20 seconds), still feels very tight, filled the tank half way with 98 RON. I now remember why I love this car, so smooth and quiet.

Cheers

Happy Stu

[p38arover]

Well done!

Did you do the bolts to the flex plate at 45Nm or 60Nm? There was a TSB changing it owing to fretting of the flex plate.

[81stubee]

:mad::mad::mad::angrylock: :BigCry::BigCry::BigCry:

Why can't people do ******* job properly! 25km and one of the welsh plugs on the back left head has decided to spring a leak, and not just a dribble, like squirting out!

NOT HAPPY JAN!!!!!

I will ring TRS tomorrow, find out what they want to do, because i'll be buggered if i'm pulling the heads off again.

Very ****ed off!

Stu

[Romulus]

BUGGER!
mate, I would come down on them like a ton of bricks!!! :mad:

I recently had my 4.6 rebuilt, heads were recon'd and bottom end pretty much renewed, touch wood, after 3000km all is still good! :)

Good luck, hope they come to the party and do the right thing by you!