BADLY DESIGNED

[INDABA]

I find that my lower t/stat housing is corroded on my 200tdidef, APART from there being none in this country, I find that the timing case or head has to be removed to get it out
Not even those halfwits that design these could have thought that one up
WHAT bad design, at least jap stuff can be taken apart, REALLY bad design with no thought gone into it

*******

[B92 8NW]

Not even those halfwits that design these could have thought that one up
WHAT bad design, at least jap stuff can be taken apart, REALLY bad design with no thought gone into it

*******


Oh sigh.

I'm taking my seat in the gods. Anyone wish to start the Opera?

[chazza]

More a case of bad maintenance I suspect.

If the correct grade/strength of corrosion inhibitor had been used I doubt the problem would have occurred in the first place.

Just had a PM explaining that the correct coolant had been used; I apologise for assuming that it was a case of second-hand neglect.

Mitsubishi Triton - the only vehicle I have ever seen where the starter motor mounting bolts are withdrawn towards the firewall side, rather than the front of the car; except that they can't be withdrawn (no room) and only with great difficulty can an open-end spanner be made to fit.

[101RRS]

at least jap stuff can be taken apart, REALLY bad design with no thought gone into it



I feel your pain - but clearly you have never had to work on jap stuff - they ain't any different.

Garry

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

I feel your pain - but clearly you have never had to work on jap stuff - they ain't any different.

Garry

Timing gears on Isuzu 4/6HE1 at the back and under the head face, some Mitsi truck is like this too.
4/6HE1 you cant face the head as the gears are meshed, I could be here all day!!!!

[B92 8NW]

I feel your pain - but clearly you have never had to work on jap stuff - they ain't any different.

Garry

Like my cousin's cruiser which needed the sump and head removed to replace the timing case.

That set him back a few Yen:D

[Bigbjorn]

Not to mention the oft-encountered welch plug in the back of the cylinder block behind the flywheel or converter. Or certain Jaguars which require the engine and gearbox to be lifted and moved forward to remove the starter motor or to replace a small rubber hose, or the engine to be lifted and moved forward to drop the gearbox to replace a clutch.

[mike 90 RR]

Or changing the rear spark plugs on the V6 Camary

[discowhite]

i agree with the bloke! i just put muddymech's 200tdi head back on after a shave and re co... i knew this had to be bolted on first so i bolted it on all sealed up and sat the head on the block started to do the bolts up only to find the thermo housing HITTING on the block. i had to undo the bolts on the housing, do the headbolts and then re tighten the housing bolts!!! theres .040thou clearance between the to!!!!
oh and he had a new housing in the shed, one he brought over from the UK...

cheers phil

PS. dont ever tyr and do mechanical work on a hilux surf!!!! f in jap poooo.

[45tr0]

i've got to agree that Japanese motors are a nightmare - try changing the oil filter on a CA18DE in early '90s nissan Exas/Pulsars. It's right at the back of the block, accessible through a space only 5mm wider than the filter itself between the g/box and the p/steer box. to even get a look at the starter motor the whole front ass'y has to come apart!

[Bushwanderer]

I do question the maintenance side.

My '93 Disco 200Tdi I've ALWAYS run with 50:50 coolant. I've had ZERO problems with corrosion anywhere in the cooling system - anywhere in Australia.

Perhaps the water in your system is suss!

Best Wishes,
Peter

[roverrescue]

Tehee hee hee
"WHAT bad design, at least jap stuff can be taken apart, REALLY bad design with no thought gone into it"

Jap stuff like a 75's rear wheel bearings... sure you can take it apart (catch them cones washers)... but then when the bearings have collapsed and the seal surface is shagged - YOU CANT PUT IT BACK TOGETHER, well not till you buy a new axle housing. The spindle / stub is the axle housing. stooopido no serviceable toy motor.

When it comes to overall servicability I rate my old D1 and the deefer light years ahead of mates Troopies/80 series/pusluxes and pootrols. Maybe it cos LR just know you gonna be fixing things for 50 years or something and toymotors et al are made to go until they roll over or get junked after 15-20.

S

[defmec]

i used to be a ford man until i started doing the maintanace on my ef falcon .ever tried changing a spark plug:eek: in one

[RobHay]

How about changing a sump gasket on a GD Mazda 626 / AR Ford Telstar,
First remove the front right wheel, remove all the wheel arch trim,remove the upper torque limiter, undo the front right engine mount, jack the engine up, sump is then removed through the small gap created, through the area once occuppied by the front wheel.:mad:

[Frenchie]

I'm convinced that vehicle engineers do this deliberately either because they are sadistic or are making sure that most people won't attempt their own repairs. :mad:

[rovercare]

i used to be a ford man until i started doing the maintanace on my ef falcon .ever tried changing a spark plug:eek: in one

:confused:Its about the easiest thing on earth to do;)

Maybe the plug leads, they're a bit of a pain, but you just need to tackle the cap and leads from underneath:)

[mox]

Working on machinery that could have relatively easily been far better designed regarding servicing and repairs often seems to make you feel racially prejudiced against the nationality that built it!

On many things I have owned and had to work on, including Defender, some modifications have been for the purpose of improving access.
Probably some threads on these should be useful, especially where these modifications can only be done while something is apart that will make future accessability easier,

[INDABA]

I am not talking aboutCamry, mitsubishi, Nissan or anything else
I am talking about our L/R`s
These ******* have had 60yrs to get stuff like this right, AND we still get bollocks like this, BAD

[rovercare]

I am not talking aboutCamry, mitsubishi, Nissan or anything else
I am talking about our L/R`s
These ******* have had 60yrs to get stuff like this right, AND we still get bollocks like this, BAD

Its LR, your a fool if you'd expected anything more:p

[PAT303]

Name one other V8 built after 1990 that has access to the plugs as easy as a Disco.Name one front wheel drive jap car that is as easy or has an oil filter you can get off without pouring oil all over the place.If anyone finds LR's hard to work on don't try anything else. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

phah simple stuff...

wait till you have to change the statermotor in an IMV...

you have to pull the whole engine and transmission out....

and when youve done all of that and your putting it back together when you drop the 13mm spanner that your using to do the exhaust flange clamp back up you have to take the whole engine and transmission back out...

Then when youve got it all back together and your unhooking the lifting sling when you co worker drops the shackle pin and it falls down you have to take the whole engine and transmission out....

oh, want to do a valve adjustment....

guess what.. yep engine and transmission out....

how about change say the oil pressure sender.....same.

yet this is allegedly a very well designed bit of kit.


you older generation of mechanics had it easy,,, at least you never had to pull the engine out of something just because you dropped a spanner

:)

[slug_burner]

Dave,

Not many old mechanics had to work on a vehicle with mine blast protection:cool:

maybe you need a tethered spanner:angel:

[mox]

The above post illustrates how things have become much more difficult than this early example. An old bloke I did a job for around 20 years ago worked in a Ford dealership after he left school. Anyway, he reckoned that soon after A model Fords came out - 1928 I think, they were recalled to replace crook rings under warranty. With reasonable organisation, no problem with the owners driving them in at opening time in the morning and collecting them at lunch time. Not surprising. Someone underneath could probably remove and replace the sump without even draining the oil and big ends should be easily accessable. Meanwhile, for someone else up top, shouldn't take long to remove and replace the head on a 4 cylinder side valve motor with nothing much around it. So compared with modern vehicles, not much work before and after removing the piston /conrod assemblies, changing the rings and replacing them.

[Blknight.aus]

you now know why I like working on series landrovers....

[Bigbjorn]

A Leyland bus chassis bodied by the Watt Bros. of Wooloongabba. We found out the hard way that to get the radiator out, the body had to be lifted off.

[rovercare]

A mate working at a local dealer, showed me pics of a TDV8 RR sport he had lifted the body off.........To replace a turbo line:eek:

[mox]

Sometimes you can save work, at least for future dismantling jobs it you cut things to allow access, even if bits need to be made to cover holes and /or retain structural strength. Those doing it would be generally more inclined doing it on their own vehicles /machines than someone elses, especially if they have not seen it done elsewhere to model their ideas on.

A couple of examples: I have seen a Series I where a hole had been cut in the firewall to replace the leaking rear welch plug. Far easier to do this, then make a respectable cover than remove and replace the motor. Also have seen Series LR's where a piece has been cut out of the middle of the seat base to get the gearbox out without removing the whole seat base. ie Below the handbrake holes and above them to the corners of the hole with removable cover under the middle seat.

On my Defender, after finding it difficult to get the transmission tunnel off even after unbolting the fuse panel, I cut the (plastic) tunnel in half lengthways. It is now easy to get off in two halves or only one if that provides access for whatever I want to get at. The rubber moulding /floormat covers the short cuts in front of and behind the gear lever rubber boot.

[chazza]

I am not talking aboutCamry, mitsubishi, Nissan or anything else
I am talking about our L/R`s
These ******* have had 60yrs to get stuff like this right, AND we still get bollocks like this, BAD

Well you did talk about jap stuff in your first post actually and anyway it is fun to recount tales of horror.

As for the "60 years" I think you are being unfair; they have got an awful lot right over the years,

Cheers Charlie

[mcrover]

Wellone who is complaining about the thermostat housing on a 200Tdi which hasnt been built since......what 1995 or so, so more than likely it is around 13 to 20 years old I dont think will be happy with anything.

Saying that after 20 years or so that something that has been working faultlessly that whole time should be redesigned is a joke.

Obviously the way you look at how things should be is what should be looked at as the thermostat housing works well and if fitted properly will last another 15 to 20 years so you wont have to worry about it anymore.

I work on golf course machinery and up until Txtron took over Ransomes there had to have been a blind man on the design team who was incharge of making things completely unservicable.

A Ransomes 3510 fairway mower for instance has a flat plate that runs the complete length under the machine.

It has an access panel for the oil filter which was designed for a Mitsubishi engine which was spec'd for the UK......but we got a Kubota....oil filter on the other side.

The other thing was that it then used to suck dust and grass seed etc through the radiator and into the engine bay and then fall to the bottom on top of the plate.

This would then build up until it hit the exhaust pipe and subsequently cause a fire.

The other great part of this plate was to remove it to clean it out you had to remove the centre lift arm and cutting unit which you had to lift the machine about a foot to be able to slide them out and then you could remove the 20 or so bolts to take it out....if they hadnt rusted in.

If you left it out then all the cut grass would go up in and around the hyrdraulic hoses and rot them out as you couldnt get int here to clean it out.

Thus there are not many of these machines around any more, they either got burned to the ground, engine was granaded due to lack of maintenance or parked due to it not being worth (as far as $ go) repairing a hydraulic leak.

Another that comes to mind is the latest model Astra or vectra, one of them.

I was at a mates auto elec shop the other day and he was trying to get the alternator out.

He already had the brake master cylinder and a few ancillaries out and still didnt have enough room to remove it.

He ended up having to lift the engine a bit to get it out.

The holden dealer had quoted $1000+ to do the job and had said that it would be a month wait to get the new alternator.

They then suggested to take it to an auto elec as they may be able to fix it....probably knowing that it was a bugger of a job.

[JDNSW]

I am reminded that in 1962 the company I worked for imported from their US HQ a 1956 Ford F800 truck. In service on our crew (S of Torrens Ck), the mechanic found that it was impossible to remove the spark plugs without first removing the exhaust manifolds. He solved the problem with eight holes cut in the inner mudguards - which was OK until the wet season arrived!

(Came to a sticky end - it was left in the field near Torrens Ck when we had to cease work due to weather for six weeks. When it dried out enough to work, it was found to have an oil mark inside the roof of the cab - where the oil in the gearbox had floated to; the creek had risen to about eight feet at that locality about half a mile from the creek. It was refurbished, but was never much chop after that.)

John

[Bigbjorn]

A former RAEME fitter of my acquaintance told me that when diving into the engine bay of a Centurion tank, you grabbed the tools you would need and tied them with string to your wrists, belt, etc. If you dropped anything down there it was lost until the next time the engine came out.

[isuzurover]

I am not talking aboutCamry, mitsubishi, Nissan or anything else
I am talking about our L/R`s



WHAT bad design, at least jap stuff can be taken apart, REALLY bad design


I think you will find you WERE comparing land rovers to Japanese "stuff".

On the whole I find Landies quite easy to work on. One thing that really annoys me though is the stupid little clip holding the front brake lines in place, which is bolted down using the swivel bolts... Any time you want to remove the caliper you need to remove those 2 bolts and leak swivel oil everywhere.

[PAT303]

Put a jack under the swivel and put a little weight on it.You won't leak a drop. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

next time seperate the brake line and then while its out cut 2 vertical notches in the mount a micky hairs wider than the thread on the hose.

to remove the hose at a later date simply unwind the locking nut from the shoulder without seperating the pipe from the hose.

[rovercare]

Put a jack under the swivel and put a little weight on it.You won't leak a drop. Pat

:eek:You know my secret:(

:D

[PAT303]

Got any others? Pat

[isuzurover]

Put a jack under the swivel and put a little weight on it.You won't leak a drop. Pat

I do that when I can - but often the jack is in use... My point was, if they had spent a fes cents more they could have made it muck less of a PITA to work on.

Dave - yes I have done that on mine, but when working on other people's vehicles...

[mcrover]

I do that when I can - but often the jack is in use... My point was, if they had spent a fes cents more they could have made it muck less of a PITA to work on.

Dave - yes I have done that on mine, but when working on other people's vehicles...

There's problem Ben.......If someone ask's you to do that job you tell them, I can tell you how to do it but you can do it while I stand there drinking your beer :D

Teach others to work on their vehicles, dont do it for them, they dont learn anything then :p

Might be why people dont ask me to work on their cars all that often, it's too hard for them ;)

[long stroke]

Hi INDABA:)
Have you been getting my pm's??, thought there might be something wrong with the pming system;)

CHEERS TIM.