Part number for brake master cylinder 1950

[Mick-Kelly]

As the title suggests, i am after the part numberfor the factory fitted brake master cylinder for a 1950 model.
cheers
Mick

[series1buff]

As the title suggests, i am after the part numberfor the factory fitted brake master cylinder for a 1950 model.
cheers
Mick

Hi ,

The number is 235006 .. If you buy in a new one from the UK.. it'll cost you almost X 2 times more than you paid for the whole car. Maybe better to find a old one and have it sleeved in stainless steel. The master cyl. on these cars needs to be in very good cond. You don't want one that is sort of OK .. it has to be 100%.

You can download the whole 1948-53 parts book from the Series 1 garage site. And the operators manual is very usefull also ..Hmm it seems to have dissapeared .

http://groups.msn.com/theseriesonegarage/files.msnw?fc_p=%2FInstruction%20Manual%20%2D%2080&fc_a=0

It's all there for free - they are in PDF format . Good Luck.

Does anyone know if the later M/c kits fit a 80" ... is the bore size the same ?

Mike

[Mick-Kelly]

I tried to get to that copy of the parts list but for some reason that stupid MSN based site wont let me join. It keeps saying it cant find the group even after i follow the join link from the groups page ..........damn MSN.........

Its OK though as NM has come through like a champion with a copy of the parts list.

On a slightly different topic if anyone has seen the pictures of the seat bases from the series one garage site then could you let me know if they are worth the trouble to log in there.

[Walster]

Hi Mick,

I have sent you a PM on the series one garage seats bases, although they are for a 88inch.

Regards

Wal

[chazza]

Hi ,

Does anyone know if the later M/c kits fit a 80" ... is the bore size the same ?

Mike

I was told that S2 kits fit, by a parts supplier, so I hope that the bits I have will fit.

[Aaron IIA]

When I rebuilt the master cylinder on my '49 80", I could not find a listing in the brake parts catalogue. I found a listing for a 86", and I assumed the two to be the same. I ordered this kit, it fitted, and works well. It did appear to be the same system as the later SII/SIIA master cylinder, although you would have to make sure that you get the correct version as these came in two different sizes.

Aaron.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi ,

You can download the whole 1948-53 parts book from the Series 1 garage site. And the operators manual is very usefull also ..Hmm it seems to have dissapeared .

Sign In (http://groups.msn.com/theseriesonegarage/files.msnw?fc_p=%2FInstruction%20Manual%20%2D%2080&fc_a=0)

It's all there for free - they are in PDF format . Good Luck.

Does anyone know if the later M/c kits fit a 80" ... is the bore size the same ?

Mike
Mike

I know I've said it before, it's not free it's stolen. Copyright still exists on all the original Rover parts manuals and anyone who is providing it at no charge is doing so after they have stolen it. There are people who are licensed to sell copies of the manuals, including the Heritage centre at Gaydon and my assumption is also the Rave CD's.

:rulez: The more people steal downloaded copies of manuals, the less it will be worthwhile for companies to keep manuals in print and then our children or grandchildren will not be able to keep our vehicles running after we have gone.

Sorry, for harping on this, my rant is now over.

The 80" MC kit is the same as the S2a CB type. Available in lots of places.

Diana

[chazza]

No. The S1 cylinder has 3 mounting holes the S2 has two, but it can be made to fit.

I think it is better to re-sleeve the original one in stainless steel.

[series1buff]

So.....if the kit is the same, is the actual master cylinder the same?

Hello

Well basically the same but; the later series 2 -2A CB type has two mounting holes .. the earlier version we are interested in has 3 mounting holes . I think somebody in the UK markets an adapter that allows you to fit a 2 - 2A master cyl to your series 1. I think the rod is longer when you use one of the adapters . I've noticed the advert in LEGEND magazine ... I don't know if these fit a 80" or what model they are intended for ??

Mike

[series1buff]

I've pulled down a few of these now and in every case the little spacer marked (5) on the diagram is missing . People seem to leave it out for some reason .

Mike

[Lotz-A-Landies]

... People seem to leave it out for some reason .

MikeMy guess it's because they rust if the master cyl gets water in or sits with air in the cyl for a long time. They aren't part of the service kit, so get left out. :(

Diana

[series1buff]

My guess it's because they rust if the master cyl gets water in or sits with air in the cyl for a long time. They aren't part of the service kit, so get left out. :(

Diana

It's a worry because it must be there for a reason.. It has little bumps on it that keeps the rubber ring away from the face of the housing. It was included in the Girling brand kit I got , but as you pointed out , other after market kits don't include it.

The cylinder does function without it, but how it affects the dynamics or performance of the thing.. I don't know.

BTW its a bugger removing the large end plug after 50 years of solid compression. You need the correct socket , A good strong vice and a length of pipe for leverage. With old cylinders , the rubber cups tend to expand and become limp , loose their stiffness, fliuid then leaks around them.

Mike

[chazza]

It's a worry because it must be there for a reason.. It has little bumps on it that keeps the rubber ring away from the face of the housing. It was included in the Girling brand kit I got , but as you pointed out , other after market kits don't include it.

The cylinder does function without it, but how it affects the dynamics or performance of the thing.. I don't know.

BTW its a bugger removing the large end plug after 50 years of solid compression. You need the correct socket , A good strong vice and a length of pipe for leverage. With old cylinders , the rubber cups tend to expand and become limp , loose their stiffness, fliuid then leaks around them.

Mike


It looks to be a wave washer - most manuals I have read even prescribe which way round to fit it, and it is important, but I can't remember why.

The big nut will shift with some serious heat on it, but it is important to heat the cylinder evenly as well and NOT to quench it in water as it may crack,

Cheers Charlie

[Aaron IIA]

So.....if the kit is the same, is the actual master cylinder the same?

The SI uses a different size steel brake line to the SII/SIIA. I think the SII/SIIA is 1/4, and the SI is 5/16. This means that the fittings are tapped one size bigger in the SI unit.

It will be seen on the SII/SIIA unit that the line from the reservior to the master cylinder is one size bigger than the line from the master cylinder to the brakes. This larger size is the size that the entire SI is made from.

From what I have found, the SI uses the same slaves as the SII/SIIA, except that the thread for the flexible line on the SI is one size bigger.

I believe that the SII/SIIA vehicles used 1/4 instead of 5/16 steel line, as it is easier to remove the air from the smaller diameter line. In the larger diameter line, the fluid tends to go around the air, and not drag the air with it.

In theory, it would be possible to fit a SI with SII/SIIA slaves and 1/4 steel line, while maintaining the original master cylinder. A reducing adapter would need to be at the master cylinder to suit the smaller diameter steel line. Alternatively, a special flare nut could be sourced, which had the centre drilled to take the smaller steel line, while having the outside thread cut to the larger size. I would not do this though, as I would see this as cheating, and ovoiding some of the obscurities that constitute a Series I Land Rover. Much better to rebuild your original slaves and use all original size fittings.

SI slaves use special bleed nipples that have a thread that I could not source at any brake shop. It is BSF, whereas other versions are UNF. I sourced them from one of the after market dealers.

The flexible line on both SI and SII/SIIA slaves is UNF, just in different sizes.

Aaron.

[series1buff]

hi Aaron

going to corowa next year / I maybe will be there.

The 80" used 1/4" brake pipes , this changed when the 86/107 came out in 1954 - they went over to 3/16" pipes ( thinner ) at that point in time , with a change to the brake hose connectors also. The pipe you refer to from fluid reservoir is 5/16" on a 80" .

4 wheel drives sell an adapter that allows you to use 2 2A front wheel cylinders on your 80" ... retaining the original hoses. It's a little tricky to fit as there isn't much room left when it is fitted.

The 80 hoses are a little difficult to find now . Dunsfolds have them .

The BSF bleed screws are a bloody pain : as are the stupid 4mm ball that is so easy to lose. BTW bearing retail companies sell those 4mm balls if you need some . The bleed screws are sometimes totally rusted in and you have to destroy them to get them out. heat /cool etc. The ball sometimes is stuck and won't seal correctly no matter how tight you do up the screw. The whole thing is a over engineered nightmare.. . there must be a modern replacement cylinder somewhere that would work. .

[Aaron IIA]

It looks like I got my sizes mixed up, but the point that I was trying to make was there were two sizes in use, with the earlier vehicles using the bigger size. It looks like that in my previous post, I need to substitute in 1/4 wherever I wrote 5/16, and substitute in 3/16 wherever I wrote 1/4.

I had no problem getting the flexible hoses for my 80". I went to my local (generic, not Land Rover specific) parts supplier, and they had them in the next day. If I need to order some for you let me know. They had the steel line and all of the associated fittings in stock.

All of my bleed screws were stuck in. I used vicegrips to get them out. This ruined them, but I had new ones to go in. I lost one of the small balls when I was bleeding the system. I had the bleed screw completely removed in an attempt to get it to initially gravity feed bleed. This wasn't working, so I pressed down on the pedal. Ping!! I never found the ball. I then put the new bleed screw in, without the ball, and it sealed well.

I would assume the place where I bought the bleed screws from would have more. Let me know if you need some.

Aaron.

[series1buff]

talking of brakes :

The PBR part number for 80" brake hoses is H538 . But there would not be much of the PBR stock around now.. you would have to find a stash of old stock somewhere in an old PBR retailer... maybe thats what happened in Adelaide .. being the out of the way retreat it is !

Somebody here gave me a late 80" front axle with the wide spring saddles . The brake linings are fused onto the drums .. so the drums won't come off . It would have been sitting outside for 40 years maybe. The bleed screws on it look like a fuzzy lump of ferous oxide, hardy recognizable. I would like to salvage the tracta joints and other bits.. but how do I get the drums off ... heat maybe ?

Mike

[JDNSW]

.......... I would like to salvage the tracta joints and other bits.. but how do I get the drums off ... heat maybe ?

Mike

I would soak it in diesel for a couple of weeks first. That might work by itself, but followed by heat (careful of fires - let it drain!) should do.

Worth pointing out that if you unbolt the axle housing from the swivel, remove the nut on the end of the stub axle, and dissassemble the swivel housing, you should be able to remove the halfaxles and Tracta joints etc - and the swivel housing plus hub/brake will be easier to handle anyway.

John

[Aaron IIA]

PBR made the flexible hoses for me. They have the ends in stock.

I had to use a hydrolic puller to get my drums off, after using an impact driver to get the retaining screws off. One screw had to be "removed" by using a burr. If they won't come off, could you gas axe them off, then buy new drums?

My 80" still has it's hydrostatic braking system, with no adjusters or return springs. Has anybody else experienced this system?

Aaron.

[chazza]

Mike, I used the method John has described to remove a drum that was stuck on; it turned out to be a wheel cylinder that had seized in the out position, which meant that the shoe could never return. Once the assembly was on the floor, I could drill through the lugs on the wheel cylinder piston so that the shoes could be dragged out of the drum.

It took a bit of work and thinking, just so that I could throw the drum; wheel cylinder; shoes; spring remnants; and adjusters into the bin! Well I least I saved the hub and everything else :D

Like you I replaced the wheel cylinders with S2 ones and used an adaptor.

Aaron, I have tried to oxy-cut cast iron in the past, but had no luck at all - any tips?

Cheers Charlie