Defender Anti-Stall

[doogs911]

I watched on youtube a comparo between the new Defender and the new 70 Series Bruiser done by the South African bloke from 4xforum. Of course the Defender outdid the 70 offroad but when he pointed it down a hill, he made a comment regarding the anti-stall and the Defender lunged forward out of control. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Land Rover would implement a feature which results in such vehicular behaviour, but furthermore, I don't understand how something that is designed to prevent the vehicle from stalling would intervene when the revs are increasing as a result of engine breaking. Is this a missinterpretation of the system or is their something I don't know about?

Thanks.

[Quarks]

As I understand it (might be wrong, don't have a new defender!), first-low in the new defender is so low that the revs need to be about 1200ish to make sure the wheels keep rolling, rather than slide, as you do a steep descent. Having rolling wheels is preferable to sliding ones because you are able to control the vehicle.

I guess the lunging would be the revs picking up.

:)
Geoff

[doogs911]

If you want you can see the video here:
YouTube - Land Rover 110 vs Toyota Land Cruiser 70-SW Pt1. (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ptiE501ZdwM)
I think the offroading section is in the second part though.

The sudden lunge forward definately isn't the revs picking up. If he was in first low, there's no way he'd be going that fast. It looks as though he depressed the clutch or it jumped out of gear, but obviously that didn't happen.

[dmdigital]

The anti stall will keep the revs above 1000rpm. Works a treat when I've played with it. Trouble is low 1 is so low you don't go very fast - ask dullbird, she caught up on foot up a very steep slope.

You need to watch the throttle surge under some conditions but this can be overcome by feathering the brakes a little. Down hill in low 1 though I haven't encountered it surging at all, just goes very, very, very slow.

Oh and low 1 is great in sand, it digs wonderful holes when you select it instead of low 3 :angel:

[one_iota]

I am sad to say that person's views are coloured. :twisted:

Mine might be but:

I haven't experienced that behaviour in mine and suspect that someone with a view could deliberately engineer this.

Either that or they need to learn how to drive the vehicle appropriately.

[tristan]

O.K, So I own a new Defender '08 and I'm not a fan (anti-stall). General use it's fine and you really don't even notice it's there even for general light off-road. Slow speed stacking, logs and slow rutted incline/decline this thing gets messy. To the point that I suggest Land Rover didn't test this anti-stall function off-road properly if, dare I say at all.

Here's why I hate "HATE" it. Incline/decline with heavy rutting or obstructions, the vehicle will start as you would expect just idle up or down (although engine braking is poor (little donk)) until a tyre comes to and obstruction just big enough to slow progress. Most diesels will have enough driveline inertia to pull over these bumps I speak of but the TD4 EMS obviously senses the small drop in RPM and instantly starts fuelling to increase RPM, then once the tyre rolls over the said obstruction engine RPM rises even more as a bit of driveline pressure has built up and the tyre rolls off the back of it "obstruction". Then the EMS realises and tries to drop RPM rather quickly! It can get very rough, as if someone was stabbing at the gas pedal especially when you come to a grp of logs, heavy rutting or line of continuous bumps i.e. rocks.

I have owned a number of other 4x4's including a County, 2x Range Rovers and worked as a Diesel Mech' for a company were a majority of the work vehicles were 110's and none have ever behave like this off road. I am chasing up with Land Rover the possibility of having this function turned off. This is that bad that slower technical stuff can't be done safely for the risk of going through the wind-screen or breaking driveline components.

I would be interested to hear how other’s had found it? As for the rest of the car, it's still a 110, full of faults! But I love it. When it comes down to it though most people that just want a general poke around in the scrub probably won't have a problem with it.

Tristan.

P.S Please nobody mention technique, it's not me. Promise!

[jddisco200tdi]

I went away for the Melbourne Cup day long weekend to the rocky Prynees Ranges.
I found the anti-stall to be fine but it does require a slightly different driving style to my old 200 tdi disco.
I was always just lightly accelerating wether uphill or down. This might be from driving in mud down here in Victoria, as if you dont lightly accelerate downhill you then tend to slide instead.
I did notice the revs track up and down a bit as coming to a stop, the anti-stall not quite being able to make up its mind.
I also never used 1st low (its too slow for general 4wding)

John D - Defender 110 2.4

[TimNZ]

I have no problem with the anti-stall, I just do what John has said above and hold the engine at 1100 - 1200rpm. However I have managed to stall the car in low 1st or 2nd several times now.

Tim

[ashtrans]

I am chasing up with Land Rover the possibility of having this function turned off.

please let us know if you are able to do this,

Dave

[Blknight.aus]

Bet theres a switch on the gear box or/and the tcase that if you unplug/short it (depending on the type of switch) will make the anti stall dissapear...

a 2 second think makes me believe that as anti stall is only in first low that there should be a switch on both the box and the case. bypassing the gearbox switch would be the way to go as if like the TD5 the Puma donk remaps the throttle for low range work disabling the case switch will also offload that feature.

[Graeme]

Bet theres a switch on the gear box or/and the tcase that if you unplug/short it (depending on the type of switch) will make the anti stall dissapear...

a 2 second think makes me believe that as anti stall is only in first low that there should be a switch on both the box and the case. bypassing the gearbox switch would be the way to go as if like the TD5 the Puma donk remaps the throttle for low range work disabling the case switch will also offload that feature.
Or it could be like a manual D2's HDC where the gear is computed from the engine revs and the travel speed.

[Graeme]

Or it could be like a manual D2's HDC where the gear is computed from the engine revs and the travel speed.
The programmer would code the logic before taking a 2nd sip of coffee. Compare this with the cost of designing the gearbox changes to mount a switch, drilling and tapping the switch hole in each gbox, purchase and fit a switch, wiring loom extras and fitting it - no contest in production costs.

Perhaps fit a switch to the low range switch circuit so that the engine ecu doesn't know its in low range, but as stated above, the throttle could use different mappings and thus this solution be unacceptable.

[ashtrans]

Bet theres a switch on the gear box or/and the tcase that if you unplug/short it (depending on the type of switch) will make the anti stall dissapear...

a 2 second think makes me believe that as anti stall is only in first low that there should be a switch on both the box and the case. bypassing the gearbox switch would be the way to go as if like the TD5 the Puma donk remaps the throttle for low range work disabling the case switch will also offload that feature.

Nope, the only switch on the gearbox is for reverse,

[ashtrans]

Or it could be like a manual D2's HDC where the gear is computed from the engine revs and the travel speed.

Yes, there are 13 different engine maps, 6 high, 6 low and one reverse,

making it auto can confuse it !

Dave

[JohnR]

I have had my 07 for over a year now and have had it up and down in some very serious trails. The anti stall feature is brilliant! It does take a completely different style of driving though. Insted of using the accelorator, let the ECU do that, have one foot on the brake and one on the clutch. If you need to slow down a little bit then just ride the brake but if the obstical is to big to hit at 1000rpm speed then ride the clutch, the anti stall will still kick in and you can go as slow as you like. It does take a little practice as it is very easy to apply too much clutch and find yourself tearing backwards off the obstical usually at a great rate of knots :eek:

Believe me they did do their home work and it is a great feature just practice casue it is way diifferent to any other technique you've used before.:burnrubber:

Cheers,

[eckwalsh]

I"ve also found the anti stall works in reverse as well. When you have it in low reverse when backing a trailer, etc. If your just letting it idle along it keeps reving upand increasing speed. Again just a practice thing i guess.

Regards:

Eck

[Scallops]

I have had my 07 for over a year now and have had it up and down in some very serious trails. The anti stall feature is brilliant! It does take a completely different style of driving though. Insted of using the accelorator, let the ECU do that, have one foot on the brake and one on the clutch. If you need to slow down a little bit then just ride the brake but if the obstical is to big to hit at 1000rpm speed then ride the clutch, the anti stall will still kick in and you can go as slow as you like. It does take a little practice as it is very easy to apply too much clutch and find yourself tearing backwards off the obstical usually at a great rate of knots :eek:

Believe me they did do their home work and it is a great feature just practice casue it is way diifferent to any other technique you've used before.:burnrubber:

Cheers,

I agree - but I have never owned anything else so I didn't have any habits to alter - I have got used to using the Puma anti stall by just using the clutch and brake and I totally rate it.

[TimNZ]

I agree - but I have never owned anything else so I didn't have any habits to alter - I have got used to using the Puma anti stall by just using the clutch and brake and I totally rate it.

What he said ^^ It's absolutly magic for climbing up steep rocks etc, stand on the brake and slowly let the clutch out, the anti-stall looks after the rest.

Tim