LEST WE FORGET

[Redback]

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

LEST WE FORGET

To all the men and women that served and payed the ultimate sacrifice in all the conflicts around the world.

RIP Mum and Dad

Baz.

[jacked130]

Lest We Forget

[Mud_Bogger6]

Lest We Forget

[87County]

Lest we forget

10:57am

[Shonky]

Lest we forget.

[Gooner]

Amen.

[zulu Delta 534]

I agree fully with the sentiments expressed.
We who remmain, salute you.

But, as an aside, did you know that on line 2, verse 4 of 'the Ode' by Thomas Binyon, where the quote says "Nor the years condemn", should in actual fact read; "Nor the years contemn" -an altogether different word, meaning; to slight, hold in contempt, scorn or despise, as opposed to condemn's meaning of; to pronounce an adverse judgement upon, censure or blame.
Just a silly bit of trivia and another sign of original old meanings being twisted and lost in the magical growth of the English language.
Regards
Glen

[blitz]

Interestingly my first year apprentices were all aware that it was rememberance day today and without my having to tell them took the 2 minutes of silence out of respect. I am proud of them

Blythe

[Bundalene]

The world would be a much better place if we could Forgive.....
Never, ever Forget.....
But Forgive.

[jacked130]

The world would be a much better place if we could Forgive.....
Never, ever Forget.....
But Forgive.


x2:)

[isuzurover]

I agree fully with the sentiments expressed.
We who remmain, salute you.

But, as an aside, did you know that on line 2, verse 4 of 'the Ode' by Thomas Binyon, where the quote says "Nor the years condemn", should in actual fact read; "Nor the years contemn" -an altogether different word, meaning; to slight, hold in contempt, scorn or despise, as opposed to condemn's meaning of; to pronounce an adverse judgement upon, censure or blame.
Just a silly bit of trivia and another sign of original old meanings being twisted and lost in the magical growth of the English language.
Regards
Glen

Actually, it appears that you are wrong on that:


The Ode: is it ‘condemn’ or ‘contemn’?

Every year, after ANZAC Day and Remembrance Day, the Department of Veterans’ Affairs receives many letters asking about The Ode.

The issue raised by most letters is whether the last word of the second line should be ‘condemn’ or ‘contemn’. Contemn means to ‘despise or treat with disregard’, so both words fit the context.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.

DVA’s Commemorations Branch has been researching the poem and its background. The lines comprise the fourth stanza of the poem For the Fallen by Laurence Binyon, and were written in the bleak early days of World War 1. By mid-September 1914, less than seven weeks after the outbreak of war, the British Expeditionary Force in France had already suffered severe casualties. During this time, long lists of the dead and wounded appeared in British newspapers. It was against this background that Binyon, then the Assistant Keeper of Prints and Drawings at the British Museum, wrote For the Fallen. This poem was first published in The Times on 21 September 1914.

The Times shows ‘condemn’. Some people have suggested that the use of ‘condemn’ in The Times was a typographical error. If it were, one would have expected then that the word would be correctly shown in The Winnowing Fan, published only a few months later and for which Binyon would have had galley proofs on which to mark amendments. Binyon was a highly educated man and very precise in his language and use of words. There is no doubt that had he intended ‘contemn’, then it would have been used.

There have been variations in punctuation within the poem across the years and a change in the spelling from ‘stanch’ to ‘staunch’. Dr John Hatcher, who published in 1995 an exhaustive biography of Binyon, does not even refer to any possible doubt over condemn/contemn, despite devoting a solid chapter to For the Fallen.

The British Society of Authors, who are executors of the Binyon estate, says the word is definitely ‘condemn’, while the British Museum, where Binyon worked, says its memorial stone also shows ‘condemn’. Both expressed surprise when told there had been some debate about the matter in Australia. Interestingly, the text used in 1916 by Sir Edward Elgar to set the poem to music has eight stanzas; the eighth being inserted between what now is regarded as the third and fourth stanzas.

The condemn/contemn issue seems to be a distinctly Australian phenomenon. Inquiries with the British, Canadian, and American Legions reveal that none has heard of the debate. Despite an exhaustive search by Commemorations Branch through Binyon’s published anthologies, no copy of the poem using ‘contemn’ was found. The two-volume set Collected Poems, regarded as the definitive version of Binyon’s poems, uses ‘condemn’. Although inquiries are continuing, there now seems little prospect of finding anything to support even a little the ‘contemn’ claim.

In Australia, the Returned and Services League, in its League handbook, shows ‘condemn’, while a representative of the Australian War Memorial said it always uses ‘condemn’ in its ceremonies. So how did the confusion start? No-one knows, but certainly the question has been debated for many years. Surely now it’s time to put the matter to rest.

Information courtesy of Department of Veterans' Affairs
Words of Remembrance (http://www.anzacday.org.au/education/tff/rememwords.html)

Edit - Lest We Forget!

[dhard]

As long as old men have ambitions of power young men will die. We will never forget as we will always be reminded. The power of forgiveness is not an easily gotten trait but the power of hatred is strong. Lest we forget for due so would be a crime.

[zulu Delta 534]

Thanks for that Isuzurover.
I learnt "Contemn" in school in NSW back in the 50's, but perhaps my teacher was one of those involved in the debate in years gone by.
I stand corrected.
Regards
Glen

[longreach]

Photo of my boy and some of his mates in east timor,in 2005 , thats him second from the right:angel:

[isuzurover]

Thanks for that Isuzurover.
I learnt "Contemn" in school in NSW back in the 50's, but perhaps my teacher was one of those involved in the debate in years gone by.
I stand corrected.
Regards
Glen

No worries mate - we are all here to learn! I learnt some stuff too by looking that up!

[Bigbjorn]

My grandfather was a bit pedantic about this as he considered "contemn" was the better fit. He was a WWI digger, 4th. Dvn, but that has nothing to do with the word usage. He was a son of illiterate Danish immigrants with a Qld. primary school education but was far better read than me. His spelling and grammar were immaculate (his manuscript was dreadful) and had read and could quote from the classic Latin, Greek, German, Danish philosophers literature. Studied and debated in bush camps.

[bittersweet]

Never fail to be moved by Armistice Day and the enormity of the slaughter of WW1.
I have visited the trenches in the Vosge in France and even today they can not use the timber from the forests because it grows with shrapnel in it.
Today I caught the Pause for thought on the radio and was very moved by it, the speaker sums up memory and the ability to forget the bad times but stresses the need for remembrance.

"But perhaps as important as our capacity to remember is our ability to forget. Some of our experiences are so painful that were we not able to release ourselves from the memory of them, we should surely be condemned to a life of misery and despair. Just as our bodies have a natural inbuilt ability to recover from damage they suffer, so too our mind has the capacity to encourage and enable us to forget – or at least suppress – the harsher memories of our life’s experience.

But we need to be careful not to forget too much. There is much in our individual and collective past that demands to be remembered, no matter how painful. The further away we are from such events, the fewer people we have left who experienced them at first hand, the more important it is that we make ourselves remember. And so we need occasions of remembrance, moments when we stop and remind ourselves not just of our own suffering, but our ability to inflict suffering on others. We need to acknowledge how fortunate we are that our freedoms, which we so often take for granted, have been preserved and guaranteed by the selfless courage of others. But remembrance has no value unless we learn from it and grow as a result of it. Let us remember how evil we can be and be reminded how good we could be, and let it influence our thoughts and our deeds, this November 11th and every day. "

At the moment watching a fascinating program on the Idiot Box called My Family at War, if you get chance watch it. It has 2 people tracing relatives who died. One of them is Rolf Harris and the experiences of his Dad and Uncle of the Western Front.
BBC Iplayer My family at War (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fkggq) Moving stuff. Well worth watching if you have a broadband connection

A close friend went on a similar search this summer to track down her husband's grandfather who died when his daughter (mother in law) was 4.

B

[timaus13]

To those lost in all Battles I pray for you all, and the families / Wives left behind.
Your sacrifice was not in vain.
I for one am proud to call myself an Australian.
Realizing that without your Ultimate sacrifices Australia may well have been
overun and I and my family may well have been eliminated in the conflict.

Bless you for you shall remain in our Hearts and our Minds for now and ever. AMEN.

PS Too all Active Australian Service Men & Women Spread through out the Globe. God Bless Stay Safe and B Proud of what you do and those u do it with.

Tim

I have family in the Services and can attest 1st hand they and their Mates do more than they are required to for all of us.

Amen

[jacked130]

To those lost in all Battles I pray for you all, and the families / Wives left behind.
Your sacrifice was not in vain.
I for one am proud to call myself an Australian.
Realizing that without your Ultimate sacrifices Australia may well have been
overun and I and my family may well have been eliminated in the conflict.

Bless you for you shall remain in our Hearts and our Minds for now and ever. AMEN.

PS Too all Active Australian Service Men & Women Spread through out the Globe. God Bless Stay Safe and B Proud of what you do and those u do it with.

Tim

I have family in the Services and can attest 1st hand they and their Mates do more than they are required to for all of us.

Amen

x2

i couldnt agree more

[Tank]

To those lost in all Battles I pray for you all, and the families / Wives left behind.
Your sacrifice was not in vain.
I for one am proud to call myself an Australian.
Realizing that without your Ultimate sacrifices Australia may well have been
overun and I and my family may well have been eliminated in the conflict.

Bless you for you shall remain in our Hearts and our Minds for now and ever. AMEN.

PS Too all Active Australian Service Men & Women Spread through out the Globe. God Bless Stay Safe and B Proud of what you do and those u do it with.

Tim

I have family in the Services and can attest 1st hand they and their Mates do more than they are required to for all of us.

Amen
I wonder what Australia would be like today, IF those 60,000 fallen had returned home and had families. Many of the Wives and Sweethearts who lost their Man in battle never remarried or married, denying Australia generations of offspring, I beleive Australia lost some of it's best and their Millions of unrealised Australian citizens, Regards Frank.