Nutserts/Rivnuts without the tool. (pics)

[Blknight.aus]

Ok heres how its done with pics and all...

assuming that youve got the nutsert and the hole drilled out.....

your going to need a longer bolt than the one your planning on using, a nut to suit, a couple of washers, a pair of spanners and some grease



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/265.jpg

set the nut and bolt up like this with the washers after coating the washers, the nut and the top of the rivnut with grease (I used a silicone based spray lube for the pics for clarity and ease of clean up)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/266.jpg

wind on the nutsert/rivnut

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/267.jpg

insert in the hole

put your spanners on like this

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/268.jpg

then balance the bolt with your thumb maintaining a downwards pressure to keep the rivnut seated

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/269.jpg( I took the spanners off for clarity)

thusly while you anchor the top spanner which is holding the bolt and then turn the lower spanner on the nut in the normal direction of tightening.

the pressure you apply with your thumb stops the rivnut from turning under the washers when you tighten the nut down and the nut pulling on the threads of the bolt causes the rivnut to collapse.



It does help if you undersize the hole by .2 mm or so so that the rivnut is a press/hammer in fit, to achive that after you assemble the rivnut onto the bolt and seat the washers+nut to the face of the rivnut place it in the hole and hammer it home then continue as illustrated.


Done, takes about a minute a rivnut.

[dmdigital]

Dave, where was this post when I had to google how to do it. Spot on, just what I've done.

One thing I'd add is use a descent bolt and nut. I was stuck with only being able to get hold of some Zenith M8 bolts and nuts from a blister pack in Mitre 10 and I found they lasted about 3 rivnuts and the thread was getting worn so I'd swap to a new pairing.

[Blknight.aus]

having the luxury of being in an aircraft whacker workshop the only thing of dubious quality is some of the workers.....

12.9 bolts are the go, dont lube the threads of the bolt where the rivnut will be gripping

[RobHay]

Okay you have my attention........what happens after that?
Do you insert a bolt? or does the rivnut /Nutsert hold the sections together like a rivet?

[Blknight.aus]

nope, unwind the nut up the bolt away from the riv nut and then take the bolt out.....

you then wind up with what is essentially a nut on the inaccessable side of a sheet of metal...

Ive put the head unit up in fozzy with them, which reminds me I need to take more pics of him.

[Redback]

Okay you have my attention........what happens after that?


Just what i was thinking, but i read it again and i'm assuming Dave is just showing us how to do it if we ever need to know how and we haven't got the special tool that does this job, am i right Dave??

Baz.

[dmdigital]

Correct, you can either spend $150 on proper a Rivnut tool or $1.50 on a nut, bolt and a couple of washers.

Dave, might help if you can post some pics up of the other side of the panel once the rivnut's all tightened up.

[Blknight.aus]

I am not pulling a bloody IMV apart to show you what a rivnut looks like...


Ive got to pull the headboardout of fozzy to fix the dimmer, I'll take pics then.

[dmdigital]

I am not pulling a bloody IMV apart to show you what a rivnut looks like...
Fair enough... :twisted:

I'd do it myself but every one of the 12 rivnuts I've put into the Defender so far aren't visible without removing the front guards.

Once I had done a few I found it a very straight forward process. Just have to be slow and careful. First two I did (putting the Mantec Snorkel on) were a little scary as I had nothing to trial with.

[harry]

thanks dave,
i often use rivnuts, being in the game, and have just recently got some nutserts to fit - stupid me has the tool to do 5/16 unc, but not 8 mm or whatever looks like 5/16, that i bought, shoulda stuck with aircraft stuff, every time i go cheap it bites me, so i will be doing it the no tools way.

[Michael2]

Last time I looked at the frontrunner.co.za website, I noticed they were selling rivnut tools for about $15AUD each!!!. About a tenth of the local price. There was no photo to confirm that what they called a rivnut tool and what I imagine to be a rivnut tool are the same thing.

Here's the link

4x4 Roof Rack Accessories :: Spade Bracket, Axe Bracket, Hi-Lift Jack Bracket, Gas Bottle Mount (http://www.frontrunner.co.za/fr_products/roofracks_access.html)

about a third of the way down the page.

The aussie dollars taken a tumble, they're now $18.12c Australian, only a 9th of the local price.

[Blknight.aus]

DONT buy the cheap rivnut tools.....

the pulling stud tends to be metal which falls into the catagory of

"I could have put chunky peanut butter into the freezer then lathed a thread onto it and done a better job"

It will work for a few but then will start to gall the thread which will lead to one of 2 things happening...

1. the thread will stick in the nutsert making it impossable to remove
2. the adaptor will wind out of the handle when you try to free it making it impossable to remove

either way you wind up with a convenient but usually unwanted nutserting tool shaped handle to help you climb around things.

[Michael2]

DONT buy the cheap rivnut tools.....


I'm not sure that the South African one would be a cheap tool. After all, all the cheap accessories they sell are expensive accessories here (OL), with perhaps the exception of the wheel carriers.:o

Anyway, the afore mentioned free way to do the job means a much more compact tool box, so that's good for me. Now to go out and get some rivnuts. I think they were 30c ea at the bolt shop in Ferntree Gully for the Melbourne people living east (about 6 months ago).

[mick88]

I installed some on friday, just used a piece of 1/8th flat steel and drilled a 1/64th clearance hole for the bolt and it held them down no problems at all, then just pulled them up tight with spanner.
The alternative to using a spanner would be a good cordless drill with a ratchet/clutch.


Cheers, Mick.

[C00P]

Got some pictures here

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-3/139384-welding-bolting-chassis.html

that show how I installed rivnuts into my chassis rails to hold a bracket supporting the auxiliary fuel tank. I also used the flat strap method with a clamp to hold the rivnut firm while I wound the nut to expand the rivnut. I purchased a hi-tensile bolt and nut for the job. These were 8mm steel rivnuts. The bolt, nut, flat steel and washers now reside in my "special tools" box in the shed, ready for next time.
Cheers,

Coop

[nugge t]

This an excellent way to do rivnuts. I actually often find it easier than using the tool as often there are space restrictions working on the Landie and you just can not open the handles out.

Great tips thread guys.

[Witchdoctor]

For members in the South East i'm more than happy for them to come over & use my nutsert tool.

I have 4mm through to 12mm utilising 2 separate tools. But if room is restricted using the bolt & nut option is the only way to go.

Cheers
David

[danialan]

I tried this method a couple of months ago on some 5mm rivinuts. All that happened was I twisted the head off two high tensile bolts. It is very difficult to get half squashed rivinuts with a broken bolt out of the hole you wanted them to stay in. Luckily I was able to remove the plate in which I wanted to put the rivinuts and could then squash the rivinuts in place by hitting them with a hammer. Which had the same effect in the end.

[C00P]

I tried this method a couple of months ago on some 5mm rivinuts. All that happened was I twisted the head off two high tensile bolts. It is very difficult to get half squashed rivinuts with a broken bolt out of the hole you wanted them to stay in. Luckily I was able to remove the plate in which I wanted to put the rivinuts and could then squash the rivinuts in place by hitting them with a hammer. Which had the same effect in the end.

I have to say I'm amazed. I fitted 8mm steel rivnuts using this method without any problems at all. The way it's done, the bolt is simply held still, all the work is done by the nut on the bolt. I'm not sure why you would be twisting the bolt.
But maybe there is something about the smaller sized rivnuts that makes them more difficult to install?
Cheers,

Coop

[Blknight.aus]

The smaller ones take more compressing to get to start.

IF you dont lubricate the thread of the bolt that the nut will be running on OR you make the bolt too long you'll snap it off where the thread cutting meets the taper of the shank.

[Jock The Rock]

On the subject of rivnuts make sure you always use a coated (zinc or cad plate) bolt and plenty of anti sieze on the threads.

A spinning rivnut is up there with the most annoying thing in the world

[justinc]

On the subject of rivnuts make sure you always use a coated (zinc or cad plate) bolt and plenty of anti sieze on the threads.

A spinning rivnut is up there with the most annoying thing in the world

...this is why oxy acetylene gear was invented, jock:D


hope you are well, and not too frozen?

jc

[Jock The Rock]

...this is why oxy acetylene gear was invented, jock:D


hope you are well, and not too frozen?

jc

Fair point :twisted:

Yeh been good thanks, spent today at Savage River. Surprisingly we had blue sky but a bitter wind so I'm just starting to thaw now :p

I'll have to drop in and say Gday next time I'm in Hobart

[justinc]

Fair point :twisted:

Yeh been good thanks, spent today at Savage River. Surprisingly we had blue sky but a bitter wind so I'm just starting to thaw now :p

I'll have to drop in and say Gday next time I'm in Hobart

make sure you do!

keep well :)

[bush ranger]

G'day all. On the point of "a spinning rivnut being up there with the worst things in the world" it occurred to me that setting a rivnut by any means that involves turning a nut/bolt/spanner etc. is courting disaster. The problem for Landy owners is the steel nut (aluminium threads would have to be someones idea of a joke) is less likely to deform correctly before the aluminium panel you put it in distorts, or worse still the nut tears a hole in the panel so the nut just spins and it even becomes difficult to remove the nut setting tool! So I've done some looking 'round and think I've found the answer to our situation. Look at "rivetnuttool.com", this device can set a nut without the twisting/turning forces of a nut and bolt, or the push/pull/lean over type forces of the pop rivet style tools that can easily damage your Landys soft outer skin. These sell for about $25 in the U.S. There's also a U.K. outlet selling 'em on ebay for about $10 more, with the advantage of offering paypal if your not happy giving credit card details to an unknown company in the States, and his listing has great diagrams and instructional videos to help you get your head around how it works. I've ordered mine and will post pics as soon as it lands and I get a chance to use it.

For all those looking for a way to set rivnuts easily, reliably and cheaply. Look up "Rivnut Rivetnut Nutsert Fitting tool M4 M5 M6 Kit car" by "powerful_ uk_ltd" on ebay.com.au
Cheers, Bushranger.

[harry]

thanks bushranger, i totally agree with you,
i work in the aircraft game and the real tool is the only jigger to use,
the screw down bolt/nut way of setting a rivnut is inviting disaster.
it may be ok to frig around for hours doing it this way, but it doesn't work in the real world.
for those that do wish to experience the difficult way or buy the real tools,
i do suggest you spend some time with the tools you are using and some sacrificial test rivnuts and various thicknesses of ally or tin to work out how hard to 'set' the rivnut.
and if the holes aren't blind, rivet an anchor nut on.

[C00P]

Looks like a really neat tool, I agree.
But the hi-tensile bolt with lubricated nut and washers worked fine for me and I only had a couple to set, so couldn't justify spending the dollars for a tool that would in all probability sit unused in the workshop for ever after.
The ones I set were M8 steel, and I did a test (as you suggested) to ensure it would work and to work out how many turns of the tool nut would pull the Rivnut up by the correct amount.
I was setting steel nuts into a steel frame, so I guess there was less risk of "disaster" there.
And the whole job only took a few minutes, there was no "frigging around for hours" doing it this way.

Coop

[ADMIRAL]

I have the Memfast tool from the UK. I also thought the investment was steep for something that would not be used often. Surprisingly it gets quite a bit of use. It makes a lot of projects that much more professional looking, and easier to use.

The tool works well, but you do need to order multiple threaded adaptors to cover off the possibilities for use.

[philco]

Trade tools had their rivnut tool on special for $35 this last week, or they are usually $55 or they sell a japanese brand called LOBSTER for $200

[clubagreenie]

Any chance of someone picking one up and posting it? Have paypal but they only take credit card.

[Jet Lyon]

Oh. Boy. Wish I found this thread earlier. Made a real meal of setting lamp guards on my Landy today. The tool that come with the genuine Land Rover guards is evil. Anyone else with lamp guards had any problems with the supplied aluminium nuts?

[Trngia]

So my first experience with Rivnuts was fitting light guards to a Freelander... I vowed never again to use the homemade bolt and nut after many hours of fiddling.... so up comes another job again on the D3 now to fit the Raised Air Intake... I had a tool this time but the tool was faulty so came back to this thread to remind me how to do it... Fitted 3 rivnuts today and this method worked like a dream. Saying that if I was planning on doing anymore or had to do the job again I would try a different tool.

I particularly liked the cordless drill adaptor from these guys Rivets Rivnuts & Tooling - Dafra - Melbourne (03) 9555 6872 (http://www.dafra.com.au)

Rich.

[uninformed]

thanks bushranger, i totally agree with you,
i work in the aircraft game and the real tool is the only jigger to use,
the screw down bolt/nut way of setting a rivnut is inviting disaster.
it may be ok to frig around for hours doing it this way, but it doesn't work in the real world.
for those that do wish to experience the difficult way or buy the real tools,
i do suggest you spend some time with the tools you are using and some sacrificial test rivnuts and various thicknesses of ally or tin to work out how hard to 'set' the rivnut.
and if the holes aren't blind, rivet an anchor nut on.

Harry, do you have a brand or model number of Rivnut tool you use?

[harry]

I think mine is called the nutter, but it is way old, we use goodyear tools in the real world.
look on 'aircraft spruce and speciality' and you will find them there.
L-6000 is a good tool.

[uninformed]

Thanks Harry, I had seen one of those on the net, but was not sure if they would pull up the steel Rivnuts.

On the insertes themselves, Carrol Smith noted he liked Rivnuts, but had no luck with nutserts.

I take it in this day and age, if I go to my local fastener supplier, I will just get cheap imported nutserts. For good quality I take it I have to go to a mob like th one you linked?

[slug_burner]

As I work in Melbourne CBD I go to Keables, they have the rivenut tools and also the rivenuts. Fastener specialists most places should be able to provide you the tool and fasteners.

[harry]

you may have to go to nutserts for larger diameters, rivnits run out at about 1/4 inch
and yes, rivnuts generally only available from aircraft supplies

[uninformed]

As I work in Melbourne CBD I go to Keables, they have the rivenut tools and also the rivenuts. Fastener specialists most places should be able to provide you the tool and fasteners.

Not likely here on the Gold Coast

[slug_burner]

Not likely here on the Gold Coast

Such pessimism, this catalog extract has the hand tools and the nutsert range they provide. They are at Molendinar, is that Gold Coast region? Yep Meredith Distribution, Unit 1/15 Mercantile Court Molendinar, Queensland

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/1366.jpg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/slug_burner/media/aulro/totalfasteners_zps19dfb876.jpg.html)

[33chinacars]

Here's one from E-Bay. Not sure how it compares. Sounds O'k to me.

Stealth Nutsert Rivnut AIR Hydraulic Tool Rivet NUT Riveter GUN Tools Garage | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/330816864315'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648)

Gary

[uninformed]

I appreciate the help guys. But to clear a few things up:

Whilst Rivnut and Nut-sert are names that get used for the same thing they are not. Similar yes, same no.

I can source the tooling locally, within Oz or OS.

The tooling is not the problem. I can get cheap hand tools, expensive hand tools, cheap air/elec tools or expensive air/elec tools

It is the supply of the insert that is key. No good spending $$$ on tooling if all I can get is crap inserts.

For example, I went to my local industrial fastener supplier today, all they have is nutsert style inserts. They can not tell me the brand or origin of manufacture.

Im happy to spend a little more on tooling if I can by quality inserts.

The reason Im being fusy is the nutsert in the LR outrigger that just spun and fell out when removing a bolt is kind of frustrating. I do not want to repeat that with crap inserts.

[slug_burner]

rivnut, nutsert, hexnut, plusnut are all just registered trade names for thin sheet fasteners. They are not always directly interchangeable but are thin sheet fasteners. With the appropriate preparation of the hole in the sheet and the correct installation they will hold within the specific ratings. I shall now cease and desist

[uninformed]

rivnut, nutser, hexnut, plusnut are all just registered trade names for thin sheet fasteners. They are not always directly interchangeable but are thin sheet fasteners. With the appropriate preparation of the hole in the sheet and the correct installation they will hold within the specific ratings. I shall now cease and desist

Im sorry that doing research and getting past the usual thin top layer has lead me to more questions.

Yes they are trade names, but seems everyone just calls them nutserts, rivnuts or rivet nuts when they are talking about 1 particular insert, and those more often than not being nutsert type, of cheap manufacture. Im yet to find real Rivnuts here on the GC.

When someone like Carrol Smith says something im happy to listen. Going by the technical drawings he added, there is a difference in the way the 2 different types seat. I have also seen a Rivnut with a little rib on the side of it that locates in a cut out in side of hole that stops rotation...

While "Lobster" pretty good quality, their range limited in the manual tools and what nutserts it will pull in the normal size.(M5 max in steel). Unless I step up to the big one:

Hand Nutter (http://www.lobtex.co.jp/english/products/tabid/153/pdid/E-HN010/catid/99/Default.aspx)

But when the normal "Lobster" nutsert tool in kit is $250, I hesitate to think what the big one is. At that money I can get hyd or air online from OS.

That page you linked looks to have some nice "Lobster" riverters (not nutsert pullers), yet one unkown "Nutsert" tool. That still doesnt solve the issue of insert quality.

[Uglitom]

Have you tried Ovesco?

[uninformed]

Have you tried Ovesco?

No I had not, just about the only one. Look good, but could be spendy...

[Blknight.aus]

Im sorry that doing research and getting past the usual thin top layer has lead me to more questions.

Yes they are trade names, but seems everyone just calls them nutserts, rivnuts or rivet nuts when they are talking about 1 particular insert, and those more often than not being nutsert type, of cheap manufacture. Im yet to find real Rivnuts here on the GC.

When someone like Carrol Smith says something im happy to listen. Going by the technical drawings he added, there is a difference in the way the 2 different types seat. I have also seen a Rivnut with a little rib on the side of it that locates in a cut out in side of hole that stops rotation...

While "Lobster" pretty good quality, their range limited in the manual tools and what nutserts it will pull in the normal size.(M5 max in steel). Unless I step up to the big one:

Hand Nutter (http://www.lobtex.co.jp/english/products/tabid/153/pdid/E-HN010/catid/99/Default.aspx)

But when the normal "Lobster" nutsert tool in kit is $250, I hesitate to think what the big one is. At that money I can get hyd or air online from OS.

That page you linked looks to have some nice "Lobster" riverters (not nutsert pullers), yet one unkown "Nutsert" tool. That still doesnt solve the issue of insert quality.


they all have their advantages and usually you pick the one that is best for the job you want it to do..(as in what you are mounting it into)

roughly

The ribbed side ones tend to be crappy at holding in thin sheet but are excelent in 2-3mm stuff.

the smooth side ones are great in thin sheet (when set properly) but more prone to spinning in thicker sheet

they're all better than speed nuts, speed clips, and clip nuts.

[uninformed]

here is an interesting web site:

800-236-3200 Rivnut Fasteners & Bollhoff Installation Tools, Puller EZ & Custom Rivnuts - Blind Fasteners & Inserts - Bollhoff (http://www.cardinalcomponents.com/index.html)

[slug_burner]

Yes I had a look around that one.

All the best.

[Expedition 130]

If you are still looking check out Aerobolt, they are in Sydney but seem to have a good range of (threaded inserts) with appropriate explanations. Good luck.

Greg

[Iain_B]

Here's one from E-Bay. Not sure how it compares. Sounds O'k to me.

Stealth Nutsert Rivnut AIR Hydraulic Tool Rivet NUT Riveter GUN Tools Garage | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/330816864315'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648)

Gary


I bought one of those guns about 2 years ago, and have put in more than 300 rivnets ranging from 4mm to 12mm. It works great, and much better than the large manual one which snapped when trying to put in a 12mm rivnut. You have to dial down the air pressure when using aluminium or small rivnuts or it will strip them. I also bought their pop rivet gun, great for the 4.8mm s/steel rivets

I get my rivnuts from these guys:

Fasteners Galore items - Get great deals on M6, M8 items on eBay Stores! (http://stores.ebay.com.au/Fasteners-Galore?_trksid=p2047675.l2563)

Prices are good, and they seem pretty good quality.

You have to choose the rivnuts/nutsert properly like Dave said, get the right ones for thin sheet metal and the right ones for thicker stuff. You also have to drill the right size hole for each particular nutsert - don't go too big or it will spin out. I use an anti-size paste on each of the bolts i put into the nutsert, as if they bind/sieze up, you will spin them and have a hell of a job getting in off. Be careful with stainless steel ones, as they can gall up using an air tool or electric drive to put the bolts in without a proper anti-sieze and then spin the nutsert.

[uninformed]

I sourced some "AVK" brand nutserts from Ovesco at Nerang. I also bought the cheap manual bolt install tool while im still researching etc. I had to install a M6 nutsert in the bottom of the bulkhead outrigger for the mudflap mount. The LR one spun and pulled out with the bolt when I was removing them, it had not expanded properly. I ended up drilling out all 4 and using the new nutserts.

I used "nickle anti-seaze on the bolts after I had wire wheeled them.

Looks like 99% of off the shelf stuff is ribbed or grooved and not smooth body.

[33chinacars]

Thanks Iain. Good to hear that it work as it should . Will buy one when the need arises.

Gary

[Iain_B]

I sourced some "AVK" brand nutserts from Ovesco at Nerang. I also bought the cheap manual bolt install tool while im still researching etc. I had to install a M6 nutsert in the bottom of the bulkhead outrigger for the mudflap mount. The LR one spun and pulled out with the bolt when I was removing them, it had not expanded properly. I ended up drilling out all 4 and using the new nutserts.

I used "nickle anti-seaze on the bolts after I had wire wheeled them.

Looks like 99% of off the shelf stuff is ribbed or grooved and not smooth body.

The grooves ones are for thicker than 1mm material normally. That the nutsert had not expanded would be due to the tool or technique, the air powered one puts a lot of force onto them, more than you can get from a hand lever tool. I have never had one not full expand.


Thanks Iain. Good to hear that it work as it should . Will buy one when the need arises.



Gary

It's good to find something on ebay that works as advertised for a change :)