"Spot" Satellite msgr - viable alternative to EPIRB ?

[waynep]

OK so, like a lot of us, I need to upgrade my old EPIRB soon.

There's really still only one 406MHz/121Mhz personal EPIRB on the market that I can see - the GME one. At between $450 to $650 I think they might be taking advantage of that market position ! :(.

I've been looking at the "Spot Messenger", which I undertand operates on the Globalstar network. This seems like a bit like a privately operated EPIRB system.

AffinityOne GPS Tracking Devices Australia Spot Messenger (http://www.gpstrackingaustralia.com.au/spot/?gclid=CLbjiNTVjJcCFcIupAodtS7o_Q)

These are my thoughts on this thing - I'd be interested to know what others think, or ideally hear from someone who has one.

Advantages
-Multiple messaging ( you can send "I'm Ok" and "Help required" messages, with your location, to a few friends, as well as a normal "emergency" message to a central Call Centre.
-Can change the batteries yourself
- less upfront purchase cost.
- postive acknowledgement your message was recieved by the satellite.

Disadvantages
-Ongoing "access" charges.
-Response possibly not as quick as the Govt condoned EPIRB system ( do the calls go to the same centre ?)
- Doubts about coverage/reliability of Globalstar.
- The "Help needed" and "Checking In" Messages can only be sent via email at this stage in Australia, ( no SMS).
- Seems it would be quite easy to send a "false" message, given location of the buttons.

The "Help needed" seems quite handy, in that you don't need to activate a full rescue if you've just broken down somwhere. However it's still very limited in the sort of information you can send. And then what happens if your six moninated friends all get the message and send out a tow truck ? Could get costly.

[Xavie]

I have had one for about 6 months. I got it cheap and subscribed cheap due to our strong dollar at the time... BUT.. now it would cost a small fortune per year to keep going. The units if you buy from america can come in at under 80 bucks U.S.

I like it. Much better then an epirb for me due to the "ok" and tracking. If I want to keep a place in mind for the future I just hit the "ok" button and I know when I get home it will be marked. I also do it on my gps but I like having both facilites. Also for my partner it usually means I can get away more often as less concern for my welfare due to the device.

ISSUE- for me is that I have my queries on if it tracks sattelites and sends out emergency signals as well as an epirb would. I doubt it does. But if it does then that's great.

Also, the design of the machine is absolute crap. The emergency button should without a doubt have a flip up cover on it and so should the help button. God only knows why the idiots who designed it never put one on.

I also like that you can call for help from someone who you have given access to your account but you aren't asking for quick response teams to come in and run up thousands of dollars worth of bills.




I have heard stupid reasons for not getting one like what if you forget to pay your fees and won't buy one because of this. I just think that is ridiculous though.

Anyway. Over all I am happy with it. I have had a few queries of if it has always sent an "ok" message when I ahve asked it too but if I follow instructions perfectly it does everything it says it can.

[Xavie]

Oh... and about your where does the message go. It goes to the american help centre. Not sure if it is like where our signals go. I think it is operated by a prvate company. You can find out but I can't recall where I found the info on the website.

Also, I don't see how it would be much slower. maybe 5 or 10 minutes. Sure you could die in that time and every minute can count in an emergency but I can't say for sure about response time. What I read on their site says once the "911" signal is picked up they then contact the local authorities and hand over all the info and make sure it has been dealt with before they cease contact.

Speaking of response. There has been several times where the emrgency help was activated and the resuce efforts went well. I have read in several places of people using them here.

[waynep]

Thanks for that- need to think about it a bit more.

From their website


Product/Service
Price
Spot Messenger
$349 AUD
Annual Service Fee
$115.00 (Charged in USD)


You're right it's the service fee that's going to be the killer - it would be between $100 - $180 pa in AU dollars.

Also looking at the new Thuraya Satphone deals. ( $1000 to purchase and prepaid scratch card charge of a couple of bucks per minute ). Thats a lot more but you get full two way conversations.

[Xavie]

If I had of had the money I would of definately gone the sat phone root even know my main uses are for back-packing and I want things kept light. in a few years I'll get the sat phone but having thought about it I don't think I'd reccomend the spot.

I should lend it to some one else on here when they do a big trip and they can decide. Any one???

btw. That 350aud... that's rubbish. I got mine off ebay for 125aud with postage from the U.S.. Even know the dollar was strong you'd be looking under $200aud now.

[spudboy]

I was just about to start a new thread on the SPOT when I found this one.

I can't work out how you send a custom message, as I can't see any keypad. How do you get the text of your message entered?

Tks
David

[Mick_Marsh]

I have a friend who has a spot. He bought it in America when he was last there.
It must be good 'cause he never shuts up about it.

[miky]

I can't work out how you send a custom message, as I can't see any keypad. How do you get the text of your message entered?

Tks
David

This link (http://www.affinity-one.com.au/store.php?crn=227&rn=553&action=show_detail&PHPSESSID=157f19f1f4bb35698fa58d0d1021f367) may help.
You set the message you want to send and who to send it to via the internet. You cannot change the message using the actual unit.

[spudboy]

OK - I think I've got it - it's just a fixed message. I was thinking you could send "Need Water" or "Broken Axle" etc as the case may be.

[Sleepy]

Do they activate in a crash?

I like the idea that an epirb will activate in a rollover or smash.
Also the epirb still have a low powered 121.5 transmitter to allow the rescue aircraft to home in on you.
(AuSAR Rescued some bushwalkers today in the Blue Mountains - They were being winched into the chopper within a couple of hours of activating it - great security)

Don't know much about the SPOT - they sound good but almost as expensive as a SATPHONE. :confused:

I like the epirb when things go to ka-ka:(

[waynep]

AFAIK there is no auto activate on the SPOT.
Mind you the personal EPIRB, or PLBs will not do that either. Only units designed for fixed installation in aircraft will do that.

For all the great features of the SPOT, I still think if you want some surety of response if you get into serious trouble, get an EPIRB/PLB and register it. When it goes off, the Maritime Safety Centre in Canberra will receive it and instantly start coordinating your rescue, not some overseas centre.

We have an EPIRB ( the one with inbuilt GPS ) now and if we go on a long or remote trip I log into the Maritime Safety website and type in the general proposed route, how long we will be away for etc. If we ever had to activate it, the authorities could retrieve our proposed route based on the ID number of the EPIRB. They'd know our location by the EPIRB signal of course, but it just shortens the mobilisation process.
Also you register a few contact details so they can call relatives etc. They also can retrieve details of your rego, colour make of car so they know exactly what vehicle they are looking for.

[Bushie]

I've been looking at these, and a mate has got one (version 1) so I've been able to get a hands on demo.

I definitely think they have a place when doing trips into more remote areas, or even just areas where there is no mobile coverage (which it what he uses it for).

The problem with an EPIRB is it's an "all or nothing" approach when you activate it, the SPOT system has some flexibility. The 911 (now SOS) links through to Australian emergency services (not sure if it does it via AMSA) by utilising the "GEOS International Emergency Response Center"


I suppose it will be up to individuals to make up their own mind which way they want to go.

SPOT Satellite Messenger (http://findmespot.com/australianewzealand/awardwinning.php)


Martyn

[akelly]

I just had reason to use a SPOT in an emergency overseas (Laos). I can report they are an excellent item - within seconds of hitting the 911 button our families all recieved an email showing our location and indicating we needed help. One thing to remember is that you still need a GPS to know your location - the SPOT tells others, not you. Using a combination of the SPOT, a GPS and a Satphone we were able to tell our families that there was a problem, report it to the Travel Insurance people (with a Lat/Long) and coordinate a rescue within a few minutes. Another point to consider is the list of people who rx the 911 message - we had each spouse on the list (5) and that did result in a flurry of phone calls between them all, which caused a little confusion and frustration. I recommend you make sure you plan and rehearse with the people on your list what actions to take if they get a message.

All in all an excellent bit of kit. I would not travel in remote areas without one now - although sharing the cost amongst a group is the best bet.

Cheers,

Adam

[waynep]

Sound good.
I'm still happy with the EPIRB - it just sits there in the glovebox, I don't need to do anything to it until 2017, when the batteries will need to be replaced. ( althougth I do test it once a month ). I'm pretty sure that my relos and friends are not going to go online to check where we are all the time ( and quite frankly I don't especially want them to ) ;)
It's horses for courses I guess.

[Chucaro]

THIS (http://www.overlandwithkids.com/2009/06/emergency-communications-personal-satellite-tracker/) Land Rover owner is using one Spot unit in his expedition, perhaps you can send him an email and ask for some feed back.

Cheers

[AndyRevill]

I just think it's important to remember that an EPIRB and SPOT are not the same thing. SPOT uses a satellite network designed for telecommunications, an EPIRB uses the dedicated COPSAS-SARSAT system. I think SPOT is interesting because of it's tracking capabilities but if I'm ever in the poo I'm going to want to be relying on an EPIRB which will directly alert the rescue coordination centre in Canberra.

just my 2c

Andy

[sschmez]

Just waking up this old thread because I found some info regarding the Spot Messenger and SAR coordination - thats been on my mind and has been asked here too.
It's the:

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING (http://natsar.amsa.gov.au/Manuals/Search_and_Rescue_Manual/documents/SPOTMOU11June2009.pdf)
BETWEEN THE AUSTRALIAN MARITIME SAFETY AUTHORITY AND (http://natsar.amsa.gov.au/Manuals/Search_and_Rescue_Manual/documents/SPOTMOU11June2009.pdf)
INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE COORDINATION CENTRE FOR DISTRESS ALERTING (http://natsar.amsa.gov.au/Manuals/Search_and_Rescue_Manual/documents/SPOTMOU11June2009.pdf)
Stevo

Still happy with my Spot2.;)

[waynep]

That's good news for SPOT users. I heard there have been a couple of emergency activations using SPOT where there was a bit of confusion.

We had a glider pilot come to our 4WD Club to give a talk about SPOT. They find them ideal for their hobby. They mainly use them to call in the recovery team if they land in a location out of mobile phone range. ( they sometimes never know where they'll end up ). They can also go to the internet and get a track of where they have flown.

Still, I'm very happy with the decision to get the PLB ( EPIRB ) - suits our needs.

[malleefowl]

I recently purchased a Spot2.
Did a trip up to the Cooper ferry.
I like it because it has the ability to transmit several message types apart from the emergency function
1.The I need assistance button-have a message on this requesting assistance from RACV-My membership no and it gives my GPS position as well.
2Custom message is at the moment."I am delayed but OK'
3The I am OK which is great for marking specific spots for future reference as well as letting the folks know via SMS or email that one is safe.
As I travel quite a lot solo this is so useful when out of mobile range
4.The tracking feature is great and trips can be transferred to Google earth for later reference.
Also haveHF radio
Ceers,
Mary

[discopoint]

A good friend of mine runs an equipment hire business, including hire of EPIRB's, Sat Phones and both Spot 1+2.
If anyone was interested in have a go with the spot system, I'd be more than happy to pass his details along.

Having been on many a drive/camp/hike with him, since he bought spot ver1 he has carried both it and a sat phone.

Tim

[Bushie]

I purchased a Spot2 before we did our Cape trip, and can vouch that they will work if the SOS is activated.
When we were at Punsand Bay someone activated the SOS on their SPOT and had a helicopter overhead within 2 hours. The activation was overkill for the situation they were in, but it proved they work.

We used mine to keep everyone up to speed on our location and had arranged that if we went more than 2 consecutive days with no OK that they should start making some inquiries as to our welfare.

It lasted the full 7 weeks on the one set of batteries sending an OK on (probably) 3 out of 4 days.



Martyn

[IGL002]

I have looked at Spot but I reckon knowing my luck if I got into trouble, the the Yanks would start looking for me in Austria...:D

[waynep]

Is it true that the Globalstar satellite system is not used for voice calls any longer but is being kept going only for SPOT ?

[IGL002]

G'day Wayne,

A quick check of Wikipedia (the font of all knowledge :confused:) does not shed any light on your question.

Juha

[Bushie]

Is it true that the Globalstar satellite system is not used for voice calls any longer but is being kept going only for SPOT ?


Can't answer that one but SPOT are a subsidiary of Globalstar


Spot LLC, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Globalstar Inc. (NASDAQ: GSAT) and a leader in personal satellite messaging and emergency communications today announced that it has partnered with RaceTracker to provide a safety and tracking solution to competitors at the 25th annual Sultan Marathon Des Sables adventure race in Morocco.



Martyn

[sschmez]

Is it true that the Globalstar satellite system is not used for voice calls any longer ...... Yes

.......but is being kept going only for SPOT ...... No

My understanding is ....;)

the duplex part of the sats which used to handle the sat phone calls has failed early and become "unreliable" (read useless).

the simplex part which handles the spot messages and a range of other data transmissions continues to be used for those purposes.

I recently read a media release regarding new sats being launched for globalstar in a partnership which obviously required a hefty $$$$$.

looking for the media release now

[sschmez]

found THIS... from 3/11/2010 (http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/366683/globalstar_pivotel_initiate_1bn_satellite_plan_boo st_data_broadband_speeds/)

similar to what I mentioned above

[kiwirich]

I'm using a SPOT 2 with a SAT Phone as backup.

Spot is good, as mentioned before, for sending non Critical messages as well as the Real deal.

2 1/2 years & still working every time.
Costs $100.00 per year to run but cheap insurance I think.

Richard