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yeboants
27th November 2008, 12:57 PM
Hi,
On a standard 110 (2005 td5) where would you find the recovery points on the back where you can hook the shackles in the event of recovery needed?

I can see 2 o-ring type connection on the front (see pic attached) where you can hook up the shackles..(is this correct?)

not able to find any points on the back though.
I dont have a tow bar - just the standard back end.

thanks

Bigmark
27th November 2008, 01:32 PM
Yup thats them, on the back of my 95 110 i have 2 points as well ,1 on each side of the chassis about 10 inches from backend- they are closed hoops and they are bolted to the chassis so i am not sure if they are standard.

leeds
27th November 2008, 01:43 PM
It is difficult to see the photographs clearly.

IF the eyes you are referring to are made from a flat sheet of metal bolted to one side (normally outside) of the chassis leg with the bolt going through the chassis these are NOT, repeat not recovery eyes.

These flat plate eyes are lash down points for securing vehicle to trailers etc and are NOT intended for recovery purposes.

Buy proper recovery points such as JATE rings. The original are drop forged for milatary purposes, many welded versions are around and fit over the chassis legs. For the rear ones you need to use the lash down eye as a spacer as the rear chassis leg is slightly narrower.

For recovery purposes only use proper rated equipment. Use of non rated/incorrect equipment is a diaster waiting to happen.

HTH

Regards


Brendan

x-box
27th November 2008, 01:58 PM
What Brendan said - you do not want to be anywhere near when those eyes let go....

Heaps of aftermarket stuff out there, do it once and do it well.

Plus fenders don't need recovery that often anyway.... :p

discowhite
27th November 2008, 03:42 PM
Hi,
On a standard 110 (2005 td5) where would you find the recovery points on the back where you can hook the shackles in the event of recovery needed?

I can see 2 o-ring type connection on the front (see pic attached) where you can hook up the shackles..(is this correct?)

not able to find any points on the back though.
I dont have a tow bar - just the standard back end.

thanks
as the others said! do not use these as recovery points!!!! these should be taken off and thrown at a cat!

best advice for the back is to get a tow bar fitted, then you can get a recovery hitch from supercrap. as for the fronts search for jate rings.

cheers phil

Blknight.aus
27th November 2008, 03:56 PM
those things are tiedown points (also good for tying swags off to.)

your rear recovery point is the reece hitch or the pintle and the front you will have to install....

you can go around the hockey sticks and the axle housing as an interum point

DiscoDave
27th November 2008, 04:13 PM
Yeboants (and Bigmark) as you have gathered from previous posts those rings are for tie down if your Landy is being transported on a flatbed, raft, ship, etc. They are not rated (i.e. not strong enough) to withstand the sometimes huge forces involved during a recovery. If you try it you may get away with it... once or twice... more likely the bolt will sheer and the tie down ring will become a missile that can kill an onlooker or someone in the recovery vehicle. There are many safer alternatives, with probably dozens of threads on recovery points on this site already discussing the merits of the different systems available for your vehicle. Do a search and have a read.;)

VladTepes
27th November 2008, 04:50 PM
as the others said! do not use these as recovery points!!!! these should be taken off and thrown at a cat!

cheers phil

ROFLMAO ! Thanks Phil !

yeboants
27th November 2008, 05:03 PM
Point taken.. thanks :-)
yeah thought the ones on the front didn't look strong enough..
anyway... guess i assumed it will come standard on the 110.. maybe not.
might go and get some this weekend.
going fraser next week and left this option a bit late..

thanks again for the warning.

yeboants
27th November 2008, 05:17 PM
hmmmm.. maybe i spoke to soon... might be difficult getting a towbar/similar added in the next 2 days...
i've contacted mr automotice in redcliffe.. they have none in stock.
ps. based in north brisbane.

do i risk it or try and get something before I leave on sunday? :(

discowhite
27th November 2008, 05:29 PM
Point taken.. thanks :-)
yeah thought the ones on the front didn't look strong enough..
anyway... guess i assumed it will come standard on the 110.. maybe not.
might go and get some this weekend.
going fraser next week and left this option a bit late..

thanks again for the warning.

recovery points are standard on jap 4x4's
land rover owners choose to fit recoverer points:D

cheers phil

kenleyfred
27th November 2008, 07:12 PM
I am going through the same at the moment. Tow bar and recovery hooks for new Defender.
I want the ARB towbar so in the future I can add a long range tank. However I lose the back step with an ARB bar. I have one on order with the Hendra branch that they say will be there next week. I can't afford it next week so feel free to take mine.
Also Arrow Caravans & Towbars 45 Robinson Rd East 3630 8181 have one in stock at the moment for $532 fitted which is a $100 cheaper than ARB.
TJM at present do not have a towbar designed for new Defender.

Have not yet found anywhere that can do recovery points although ARB suggested I try EDS, whoever they are.

Not intending to do any advertising with this post, just pointing out info I got yesterday after much driving around.
Kenley

VladTepes
27th November 2008, 07:26 PM
Don't wait - ring around and see if you can find some JATE rings or any rated recovery point to at least use in the interim. Best bot to go on the beach without suitable recovery points !

Blknight.aus
27th November 2008, 07:42 PM
tyres to 15 PSI and you will be right.

if you need to recover do it from the front and use 2 soft slings

wrap the sling around the axle tube alongside the hocky stick and feed it back through its own eye, snig that down, same same on the other side.

shackle the 2 eyes together and theres your front recovery point.

you cant do the same on the rear as you have the brake lines to be worried about.

if youve got the standard rover tow point that will work for up to a single line winch recovery.

VladTepes
29th November 2008, 12:25 PM
When you get A Hayman Reece towbar you can get the adapter with shackle that goes into the receiver allowing attachment of straps or drag chains or whatever.

I picked one up today @ TJM for a good price.

samuelclarke
30th November 2008, 01:22 PM
Scorpion have bolt-on recovery points for the Defender. Rover Craft distribute them in Australia.

I've got this on the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/994.jpg

Couldn't afford a tow bar just yet and needed a rear recovery point - from memory it was around the $100 mark.

They also have Jate Rings:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2008/11/25.jpg

Don't have them yet - but looks like I need to get them asap as I wasn't aware that the front points were only tie down points!

Bearman
30th November 2008, 07:06 PM
Scorpion have bolt-on recovery points for the Defender. Rover Craft distribute them in Australia.

I've got this on the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/03/994.jpg

Couldn't afford a tow bar just yet and needed a rear recovery point - from memory it was around the $100 mark.

They also have Jate Rings:
http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/Products%20images/cats/rec/tow/JRings.jpg

Don't have them yet - but looks like I need to get them asap as I wasn't aware that the front points were only tie down points!

You need one of these front and rear

roverrescue
6th December 2008, 02:32 PM
.... Just to play devils advocate.
Allegedly an 8.8 bolt has a shear strength of 375 N/mm2

So those tie down points each with a new M10 8.8 bolt through them, bridled would have a shear strength of near to 59,000N, depending on bridle length. Technically the rear pin on a 50mm towbar at 16mm will be 75,000N in shear? The problem with those tie down rings is they will rotate to the line of pull and potentially wedge the shackle.

What are the fancy JATE rings rated at... they are still only a single 10mm shank in shear.

S

leeds
6th December 2008, 02:54 PM
The Jate rings etc use the same size bolt as the lash down/tie down eyes.

The problem is not so much as in the bolt but in the eye. The loading force on the eye is not very often in the plane of the eye . IF the force is in the plane of the eye that force is transmitted into a shear force onto the bolt.

The forces are normally OUT of the plane of the eye and distorts the eye, puts a mixed shear and tensile load onto the bolt. Having seen the twisted remains of some of these lash down eyes (OK have personally not seen one fail YET!) I do not want to be anywhere near a recovery being carried out using these.

The Jate rings tend to keep the forces on the bolts more in the shear direction. Also you are spreading the load across both ends of the bolt so for a given pull are halving the shearing force on any given point in the bolt in comparison to the single point loading of the lash down eye.

Hope that makes sense.

Regards

Brendan

PS There is a good reason why they are called lash down/tie down points and are NOT called recovery points:p

roverrescue
6th December 2008, 06:09 PM
Fair cop that.

I guess i am allergic to dynamic recovery unless all static avenues exhausted (mostly due to 3ish tonne 130 towing a 1ish tonne trailer means a dynamic recovery is some scary numbers) Just last week getting home from bathurst we clean broke a "4tonne rated" winch extension strap when trying to winch the above rig out of some goop. The anchor was a hilux which was being pulled towards before breakage. So out with the shovels and after a bit of digging around the sunken salisbury and trailer, re-tie the strap and out she came slow and steady. I imagine if the luxy had tried to snatch the 130 initially we could have made metal fly.

For a static pull I have and still would bridle off those tie downs if no other option was available.

S

leeds
6th December 2008, 07:36 PM
For the want of spending a few $ I would jettison those tie down eyes.

Safety is worth more then a few $

If you are stuck then the minimum force required to shift a vehicle is independent of the recovery method. It is dependent on the terrain, weight of vehicle, how badly stuck, damage to vehicle etc.

With a static recovery loads build up slowly and hence you have more time to react to events.

With a snatch recovery you do not have that luxury of time to react. Also to get the stuck vehicle to move you tend to apply much higher forces in a shock load condition.

Personally I prefer slow but steady method and if possible will double line when winching


Regards

Brendan

roverrescue
7th December 2008, 12:39 PM
Agreed and agreed Brendan.

playing in sand with minimally stuck lightly laden vehicles reach for the snatch... Otherwise slow and steady does me fine.

Interestingly when the winch extension strap broke, both it and the new plasma rope on the 130 winch fell to the ground with no recoil at all. I also appreciated being able to strip the rope of the drum when at home and wash the mud and salt out of it after a week pulling boats/trailers and stuck vehicles of the beach and out of the mud. Was so easy to put in a bucket and wash off the crap that would rust a steel rope.

S

leeds
7th December 2008, 02:53 PM
Interesting about the plasma line and winch extension strap just falling to the ground without recoil.

I personally think this 'falling to ground' comment is marketing hype and would suggest it is in general treated as such.

The failures I have seen the lines have recoiled in some cases so the broken end lands at the other end of the vehicle.

So why does synthetic lines sometimes fall to the ground and sometimes recoil?

I would hypothesis that it is a complicated mixture of line manufacturer, state of line (how badly abraded it is etc) actual load and the speed of loading as well.

Whilst a failed synthetic line is probably 'safer' then a failed steel line I would suggest that the same safety rules are applied when winching with a synthetic line as steel lines. Main one being that all non essential people are removed from the 'exclusion zone' defined as two circles radius of winch line centred on the two vehicles/vehicle and ground anchor. OK the winch bitch is in the firing line but that is part of their job!

Agree with comments re cleaning the synthetic line..

Whilst it is possible to knot a failed synthetic line with reasonable success until knot reaches the fairing. It is possible to attach a synthetic line to winch drum using a timber hitch and a few wraps over. The winch extension line I use is identical to main line so will pass through a snatch block unlike an extension strap.

Double lining whilst halving the load on the line and motor, halves the line speed is in my mind safer then single lining for recovery purposes. Much less chance of line failure, but double lining does not alter the load on the anchor point

Regards


Brendan

leeds
7th December 2008, 11:53 PM
Just found this, which might be of interest

Vehicle Recovery Points And some technical aspects, by Mike Lauterbach (http://www.landyspares.co.za/landyspares/files/vehicle_recovery_points.htm)


Regards


Brendan