Botched coil spacer installation? (pics)

[MSkinner]

I took the Disco to a local shop today where I used to take my commodore wagon for minor services and brake work and asked them if they'd be able to install my coil spacers. They agreed and I felt the Disco was in capable hands as one of the young mechanics there owns a GQ Patrol, 5" lift, 33" muddies, etc etc.

When I dropped it off, I showed the above mentioned mechanic the spacers to be installed and a set of rear springs from a Discovery 1, saying "you'll notice my Discovery sits nose-down. If you think these heavier springs will correct this, then put them in the front. If it's overkill, just leave the existing ones in there", to which he nodded and off I went.

When I came back, the Disco sat the complete opposite, and then some. Installing the spacers (and springs as I noticed when I saw how the Disco was sitting) took them twice as long as they expected. I suspect that the young bloke was fed up and couldn't be bothered swapping the springs back. This didn't bother me so much. What caught my eye was how the spacers were actually installed. In the below photo, is the ribbed plastic disc between the rear coil and the spacer supposed to be there, or is this meant to be removed when installing coil spacers?

Also, tell me what you think about how the Disco is sitting. I think it looks ridiculous, not to mention that when I load it up with gear for a 2-3 day trip, the rear will be sitting even lower.

I plan on taking it back to them tomorrow morning and having the springs switched. However, I'd like to be sure what I'm talking about as far as the black plastic disc is concerned as I don't want to be one of those annoying customers that doesn't know what they're talking about.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/spacer01.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/spacer03.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/spacer04.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/lifted03.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/lifted01.jpg

[Utemad]

The ribbed rear plastic things are the insulator/quietner things. Probably not required with a poly spacer. However the rear will sit lower if you take them out.

If its too high at the front then it needs to be lowered for all the reasons you state.

[rangieman]

I made alloy spacers for my rear springs and the sit under the saddle under the rear spring not on top of the spring like yours :cool:
I notice you have them fitted to the front id remove them so the front sits a little lower:D
Some on this site dont agree with spacers , If your not a hardcore off roader you will be ok;)

[Utemad]

What will happen to those spacers if your springs dislocate?

[MSkinner]

I made spacers for my rear springs and the sit under the saddle under the rear spring not on top of the spring like yours :cool:
I notice you have them fitted to the front id remove them so the front sits a little lower:D
Some on this site dont agree with spacers , If your not a hardcore off roader you will be ok;)

I needed the clearance so my tyres wouldn't rub. I underestimated the offset/backspacing of those Pro Comp rims.

[Fusion]

Hi Mate . would have to agree that it looks a little ridiculous with the nose in the air . should look like that with a trailer load of dirt on it ;) . I don't have them plastic bits between the spacer and the springs front or back .

What did you pay for the pro comp rims ?

[MSkinner]

Hi Mate . would have to agree that it looks a little ridiculous with the nose in the air . should look like that with a trailer load of dirt on it ;) . I don't have them plastic bits between the spacer and the springs front or back .

What did you pay for the pro comp rims ?

About $80 each. They'd been fitted once for show. Looked brand new.

[Slunnie]

Looks to me like he has done the best with what he had. I guess the other option is changing back to the old front springs with a spacer in it, though I think that will have you nose down again.

[MSkinner]

Looks to me like he has done the best with what he had. I guess the other option is changing back to the old front springs with a spacer in it, though I think that will have you nose down again.

Or just remove the spacer and leave the 'rear' springs in the front. Either way I'm going to feel like a pain going in there tomorrow.

[Slunnie]

Or just remove the spacer and leave the 'rear' springs in the front. Either way I'm going to feel like a pain going in there tomorrow.
Sorry, I had a brain fart. You're right. :(

[hook]

Now you will need taller tyres to fill the guards.:D

I think the rear spacers will fall out, on heavey off roading?:mad:

[MSkinner]

Now you will need taller tyres to fill the guards.:D

I think the rear spacers will fall out, on heavy off roading?:mad:

I'm not out there doing the gnarliest of trails. Although, that was probably because I had road tyres up until now and no lift. ;)

I guess I'll see how I go. I'm definitely not the first person to fit coil spacers. And while I hear all this bad talk about them, I rarely see someone post about an experience that actually happened to them.

[Slunnie]

The spacers are not bad at all. It does increase the effective free length of the springs, so that may cause shock length problems depending, though they no son of the devil. The spacer wont fall out, the shock retains the spacer by maintaining spring load on it. You just probably should run really long shocks that allow the springs to dislocate.

[Fusion]

Now you will need taller tyres to fill the guards.:D

I think the rear spacers will fall out, on heavey off roading?:mad:

Never had my spacers fall out even on full extension . you would have to have long shocks for that to happen . won't happen with standard to 2" lift springs and shocks :) .

[V8Landy]

Never had my spacers fall out even on full extension . you would have to have long shocks for that to happen . won't happen with standard to 2" lift springs and shocks :) .

X 2

[mike 90 RR]

Can't comment on the spacers .... other than drive "askew" onto a heavy grade bank .... so the wheel is lifted off the ground and make sure that the spring is still in contact of the spacer ..... If it lets go then it's a case of "Danger Will Robinson"



However .... "In my opinion only"


If you have a look at all new cars you will notice that they are all setup "nose down"

I call this the wedge look .... I personally believe that all cars should be set up this way ... as it gives "positive steering" on the road

Also when you put weight in the rear ... the worst it can be is "level ride"



So in a nut shell .... Your current setup will be a mongrel to drive and control :(



Start again ..... Get the wedge look (nose down) .... I personally like to set them up with :) 2" raised rear :) ..... and get it "wheel aligned"



Mike

:)

[MSkinner]

I called the mob back and course now they're complaining about how much work it is to take the front springs out, they didn't charge me nearly what they should have etc etc, all the while ignoring me telling them that before they even touched it, I said only to install the stiffer rear springs into the front if it levelled the Disco.

I don't want to have to argue with these people as they've provided me with years of good service, but in reality, they haven't done what I asked for in the first place. I know its not their usual line of work, but I clearly explained what I wanted done before the Disco was anywhere near their hoist. Should they not do what they said they would do?

[rovercare]

Can't comment on the spacers .... other than drive "askew" onto a heavy grade bank .... so the wheel is lifted off the ground and make sure that the spring is still in contact of the spacer ..... If it lets go then it's a case of "Danger Will Robinson"



However .... "In my opinion only"


If you have a look at all new cars you will notice that they are all setup "nose down"

I call this the wedge look .... I personally believe that all cars should be set up this way ... as it gives "positive steering" on the road

Also when you put weight in the rear ... the worst it can be is "level ride"



So in a nut shell .... Your current setup will be a mongrel to drive and control :(



Start again ..... Get the wedge look (nose down) .... I personally like to set them up with :) 2" raised rear :) ..... and get it "wheel aligned"



Mike

:)

Actually with the rear end squating, it'll be better to drive, bringing the castor back and all

Its just it looks pox:D

[mike 90 RR]

Actually with the rear end squating, it'll be better to drive, bringing the castor back and all

Its just it looks pox:D

I have always figured it to be a "light steerer"
Poxy? .... VD clinic in my opinion :p



This is how I like em to look

YouTube - 1972 ford f100 exhaust (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=STxFDindHlc)

Sorry on the F100 ... But I like them too

[mike 90 RR]

I called the mob back and course now they're complaining about how much work it is to take the front springs out, they didn't charge me nearly what they should have etc etc, all the while ignoring me telling them that before they even touched it, I said only to install the stiffer rear springs into the front if it levelled the Disco.

I don't want to have to argue with these people as they've provided me with years of good service, but in reality, they haven't done what I asked for in the first place. I know its not their usual line of work, but I clearly explained what I wanted done before the Disco was anywhere near their hoist. Should they not do what they said they would do?

So is their complaint about "money" ... or ... a job to be "well done"

SO... How hard is to change springs on the front :confused: ... I found it easy on my RRC

[rovercare]

I have always figured it to be a "light steerer"
Poxy? .... VD clinic in my opinion :p



This is how I like em to look

YouTube - 1972 ford f100 exhaust (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=STxFDindHlc)

Sorry on the F100 ... But I like them too

The nose pointing up and the light steering is usually assosciated to the trailer on the back, incorrectly loaded having a leverage point over the rear diff, not the actual hieght itself;)

F trucks are alright, shame they're such a heap of ****, body and chassis wise:(

[MSkinner]

So is their complaint about "money" ... or ... a job to be "well done"

SO... How hard is to change springs on the front :confused: ... I found it easy on my RRC

It's not hard. I fully understand everything involved and are capable of doing it myself. My only problem is that I don't have a jack that will lift the body of the Disco high enough to let the suspension drop down enough to let me get the coil and/or spacer out.

Just called Malcom at Mornington Prestige who can do it on Saturday for me.

[mike 90 RR]

It's not hard. I fully understand everything involved and are capable of doing it myself. My only problem is that I don't have a jack that will lift the body of the Disco high enough to let the suspension drop down enough to let me get the coil and/or spacer out.

Just called Malcom at Mornington Prestige who can do it on Saturday for me.

Just clarifying :)
My comments were aimed at the mechanics and the excuses used :)

[mike 90 RR]

The nose pointing up and the light steering is usually assosciated to the trailer on the back, incorrectly loaded having a leverage point over the rear diff, not the actual hieght itself;)


But you feel as tho your driving uphill ;) ... Thats why I find it uncomfortable

When the nose is down it feels as tho your "bearing down the road" (attacking the road)




F trucks are alright, shame they're such a heap of ****, body and chassis wise:(

But they are brilliant on heavy corrugated gravel roads ... Sloppy suspension & shocks .... Just floats /// Good ol American suspension // Sloppy as /// sea sickness for some

You just need the V8 "to put ya foot down" to push the A## End around, when you stuff up on corners :p

[JohnF]

fairly easy to change springs on a Range Rover clasic. I would be suprised if defender is any harder, just a few hours on Sunday needed. a friend of mine had his brother come in and tell him how easy it was to do the shocks on the RRC. He just dropped his front axle in order to put them in. My friend laughed. that is the very hard way. You just unbolt the scocks, then take of the cone which requires 4 nuts to undo and drop the new shock in. Perhaps your mechanic did it the hard way not knowing any better.

[MSkinner]

All sorted. Stuff the guys that did it in the first place. My brother in law just called me telling me to meet him at his factory this afternoon. Suitable jack won't be a problem, he's got 2 fork lifts. I'm also borrowing spring compressors from my cousin so this will be a 40 min job tops.

Going to take out the rear coils that are in the front and replace them with the original front coils. Sure, it might be sitting a tad lower in the front but the tyres will still clear the guards, it'll handle like it used to, and when the Disco is loaded up in the rear for an outing, it'll sit level anyway. Might also take this chance to do a camel cut and perhaps trim some of the side-skirt behind the front wheel if need be.

Sorry to everyone for all my bitching. I'll post pics when I'm done.

Oh and thanks to anyone who provided advice and insight to what setup would be the best.

Cheers

[Slunnie]

If you have a look at all new cars you will notice that they are all setup "nose down"

I call this the wedge look .... I personally believe that all cars should be set up this way ... as it gives "positive steering" on the road

Also when you put weight in the rear ... the worst it can be is "level ride"



So in a nut shell .... Your current setup will be a mongrel to drive and control :(



Start again ..... Get the wedge look (nose down) .... I personally like to set them up with :) 2" raised rear :) ..... and get it "wheel aligned"



Mike

:)
Thats not necessarily the case with a 4WD, especially when you start putting lift onto it. The problem is that when the rear is high, when you turn in all is sweet, and then the roll that is generated changes the geometry which causes mid corner movement in the vehicle, particularly the rear. Not talking about losing traction here, this is all geometry change and roll. It makes it feel very unstable, and it will do the same under brakes and feel generally twitchy. This can be sorted out with further suspension changes though, but how much do you want to play with it. If anything a Disco particularly with its high roofline will respond better with a lower rear than front.

Cars are designed like this in the body shape rather than in the suspension setup.

[rangieman]

All sorted. Stuff the guys that did it in the first place. My brother in law just called me telling me to meet him at his factory this afternoon. Suitable jack won't be a problem, he's got 2 fork lifts. I'm also borrowing spring compressors from my cousin so this will be a 40 min job tops.

Going to take out the rear coils that are in the front and replace them with the original front coils. Sure, it might be sitting a tad lower in the front but the tyres will still clear the guards, it'll handle like it used to, and when the Disco is loaded up in the rear for an outing, it'll sit level anyway. Might also take this chance to do a camel cut and perhaps trim some of the side-skirt behind the front wheel if need be.

Sorry to everyone for all my bitching. I'll post pics when I'm done.

Oh and thanks to anyone who provided advice and insight to what setup would be the best.

Cheers
Should be able to do with out spring compressors;)

[mike 90 RR]

Thats not necessarily the case with a 4WD, especially when you start putting lift onto it. The problem is that when the rear is high, when you turn in all is sweet, and then the roll that is generated changes the geometry which causes mid corner movement in the vehicle, particularly the rear. Not talking about losing traction here, this is all geometry change and roll. It makes it feel very unstable, and it will do the same under brakes and feel generally twitchy. This can be sorted out with further suspension changes though, but how much do you want to play with it. If anything a Disco particularly with its high roofline will respond better with a lower rear than front.

I see your point Slunnie ... The gracious art of driving bush tracks .. verses a balanced car :)




Cars are designed like this in the body shape rather than in the suspension setup. Have to think about this one ;) cause thats not how my Ford is setup





I'm was mainly thinking of the of the tarmac driving that we all do

At high speeds ..the air forces come into play
With the front lifted ... the air is compressing under body // (Loss of vacuum)
With the front down ... the air is + Vacuum under body



Actually with the rear end squating, it'll be better to drive, bringing the castor back and all

But I will take it onboard ;)


But in the words of others

Its just it looks pox:D

:p

[Utemad]

My only problem is that I don't have a jack that will lift the body of the Disco high enough to let the suspension drop down enough to let me get the coil and/or spacer out.

Do you have a trolley jack and chassis stands?
You have the wheel off at the time. So you just put a jack under the axle housing and lift it up and put a chassis stand under the chassis. Then lower the jack until the disc brake is touching the ground. Use a trolley jack for stability and lowered height.

With the shock absorber removed already of course.

This should have the springs dislocating.

[Blknight.aus]

assuming your going to leave the spring pads like they are do your self a favor and go get 4 pieces of 75x25x3mm flat steel plate, radius grind and debur one side of each piece and then weld them onto the outside of each spring perch so that in the event of it trying to dislodge or kick the spring out the aditional plate will hold them in place.

the shocky will now be your limiting factor and as such I suggest that you find out what the maximum droop is with one shocky disconnected (repeat the experiment on each axle corner as you dont want to find out that hard way that the spring will kick out completely if it articulates after a shocky gives up or worse that it can take out a brake line thats been measured by landrover to be 1/2 an inch too short.


Best of luck with it all.

[loanrangie]

It's not hard. I fully understand everything involved and are capable of doing it myself. My only problem is that I don't have a jack that will lift the body of the Disco high enough to let the suspension drop down enough to let me get the coil and/or spacer out.

Just called Malcom at Mornington Prestige who can do it on Saturday for me.

No special tools required, just a set of axle stands, jack the offending side from under the diff and place axle stand under the chassis, take the wheel off and using a trolley jack or similar lower the side down untill the spring becomes loose. If the brake line is stretched unbolt the caliper and suspend out of the way with a coat hanger or fencing wire, once diff has dropped as low as it will go a boot pushing down will help dislodge it. This of course is after the shock has been removed complete with tower as its easiest that way.

[Slunnie]

I'm was mainly thinking of the of the tarmac driving that we all do

At high speeds ..the air forces come into play
With the front lifted ... the air is compressing under body // (Loss of vacuum)
With the front down ... the air is + Vacuum under body
While on a tangent.. we did a heap of testing on pan and silhouette designs in a wind tunnel a few years ago, and the basics were as you would expect, though there was an optimal front height off the deck before airflow slowed too much and vacuum was lost again..... so the sports cars that you sometimes see with their front spoilers on the ground are not necessarily getting all of the downforce they may have been able to ....

But, the big problem with the aerodynamics was more to do with the rear - a problem highlighted by the Audi TT when one of their drivers met his maker. The lift created off the back glass is a huge problem, and significantly greater than the downforce created at the rear by a shaped pan. I suspect thats why a lot of pans are flat on the bottom and have the majority of shaping done at the very rear for max gain in that area. The wedge shape reduces the lifting as does a rear spoiler. For the front.... there is downforce galore off the bonnet and windscreen.

Anyway, that was just a unit I did with a Yr9 class.

[hook]

Do you have a trolley jack and chassis stands?
You have the wheel off at the time. So you just put a jack under the axle housing and lift it up and put a chassis stand under the chassis. Then lower the jack until the disc brake is touching the ground. Use a trolley jack for stability and lowered height.

With the shock absorber removed already of course.

This should have the springs dislocating.


Or the Disco bottle jack between the axle house and chassis, best place, the bump stops, now jack the diff and chassis apart, springs should full out, BRAKE LINES may limit how far you can jack.

[MSkinner]

Done. We used two trolley jacks to lift the body, disconnected the shock from the bottom, compressed the spring, and with a little weight on the wheel, simply took it out. The front is now sitting perfectly...a little lower than the rear but with more than enough room to allow the tyres up into the guards with no cutting of body panels. It was reassuring to know that my coils will not dislocate at full articulation because the shock won't let them, and that my brake lines are still plenty long enough. Why this took those clowns over an hour to do with a hoist and air tools the other day I will never know.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/absolutnerd/03122008004.jpg

[953]

Looks heaps better:).
U live near the beach I take it?
Cheers Dean.

[MSkinner]

Looks heaps better:).
U live near the beach I take it?
Cheers Dean.

Yep, live near it but have yet to do any sand driving. :D