Discovery I to Isuzu 4BD1T

[discodiesel]

Need Help,

I got an Isuzu 4BD1T engine that came out of a NPR truck that will like to install in my 1995 Disco I with automatic transmission but, I came across a few issues like.

1) Starter on the engine sitting to low and out. Which I am sure it will hit the chassis.

2) The oil sump. I know that in a 110 the engine goes without any modification to the oil sump but in the Disco the front axel is located more aft interfering with the oil sump.

3) The streering box need to be relocated?

Does anyone know of someone who has done this engine swap on a Disco I. Like I said I have seen this engine swap on a 110 but never in a Disco.

Pictures will help

Can someone help.

YR

[rovercare]

2 & 3 are not the case, the Disco is just the same as the 110;)

1, would be a matter of sourceing the correct starter

[Bush65]

Need Help,

I got an Isuzu 4BD1T engine that came out of a NPR truck that will like to install in my 1995 Disco I with automatic transmission but, I came across a few issues like.

1) Starter on the engine sitting to low and out. Which I am sure it will hit the chassis.

2) The oil sump. I know that in a 110 the engine goes without any modification to the oil sump but in the Disco the front axel is located more aft interfering with the oil sump.

3) The streering box need to be relocated?

Does anyone know of someone who has done this engine swap on a Disco I. Like I said I have seen this engine swap on a 110 but never in a Disco.

Pictures will help

Can someone help.

YR
Land Rover had different flywheel housings made that moved the starter up to clear the chassis.

I have seen pics that I believe were posted in this forum of the 4BD1 in a disco. Sorry I don't know who it was, but I save the pics.

[rijidij]

Need Help,

I got an Isuzu 4BD1T engine that came out of a NPR truck that will like to install in my 1995 Disco I with automatic transmission but, I came across a few issues like.

1) Starter on the engine sitting to low and out. Which I am sure it will hit the chassis.YR

I'm guessing your starter is 24 volts and is held in with 2 bolts. The 12 volt starter to suit the Landy flywheel housing is a 3 bolt pattern. See pics here >>>>>>>>>http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/55113-county-v8-4bd1turbo-conversion.html

Also, 4BD1/4BD1T's are known to be very hard on autos.

Cheers, Murray

[Dougal]

I think I've emailled you this stuff, but I'll put it here anyway.

Landrover flywheel cover (engine bellhousing) puts the starter higher. My rangie uses the Isuzu bellhousing with a direct drive starter motor (it's more compact) and the chassis rail has been notched to clear.

You'll need to pack the bump stops to restrict the last 20mm or so of suspension movement to keep the sump clear of your axle. I've fitted longer bumpstops (big orange suckers) which I bought from the UK.

Most of us have the steeringwheel on the right, so the steering box fits nicely beside the engine.

[rovercare]

You'll need to pack the bump stops to restrict the last 20mm or so of suspension movement to keep the sump clear of your axle. I've fitted longer bumpstops (big orange suckers) which I bought from the UK.
.

Why? the truck sump is deeper? or the motor is mounted to low?

[discodiesel]

Thanks you all for the quick reply. First the starter, my starter is a 12V that is held in place by 3ea. bolts. Obiously I dont have the LR flywheel cover which brings me to the next question.
Would it fit using the Isuzu flywheel cover and replacing the start unit with one more compact?

My Disco has the steeringwheel on the L/H side. Does any one knows if the engine will fit with the steeringwheel on the left side?

Another issue is the auto transmission most people agree that it wont last long. Whats your take on this? Have someone try to use the auto transmission of the Isuzu truck?

What about the L/R flywheel cover they are easy to come by in Australia? If so what is the market price?

Onece again thank you for the replies. The engine has been sitting for a year now and I am ready to get it install.
Any comment, pictures & ideas wheel be greatly appreciated.

YR

[Dougal]

Why? the truck sump is deeper? or the motor is mounted to low?

My motor can't go any higher or the thermostat housing hits the bonnet. The truck sump does have a thick rubber isolation gasket on it (stop noise transmission from the block to the sump) but with standard bump stops the diff head can contact the lower corner of the block, not just the sump.

[isuzurover]

Another issue is the auto transmission most people agree that it wont last long. Whats your take on this? Have someone try to use the auto transmission of the Isuzu truck?

What about the L/R flywheel cover they are easy to come by in Australia? If so what is the market price?



JC on here has broken a few ZF autos behind a 4BD1T - he has posted a thread or 3 on the topic. Dougal has also suggested that a heavier flywheel may reduce torque pulses at low revs and reduce stress on the gearbox.

The bellhousings (flywheel cover) are very difficult to find over here.

[rovercare]

My motor can't go any higher or the thermostat housing hits the bonnet. The truck sump does have a thick rubber isolation gasket on it (stop noise transmission from the block to the sump) but with standard bump stops the diff head can contact the lower corner of the block, not just the sump.

Body lift?, you NEED a 2" BL minimum to fit the 4BD1 in its correct place, i.e. the same situ as a 110;)

[Dougal]

Body lift?, you NEED a 2" BL minimum to fit the 4BD1 in its correct place, i.e. the same situ as a 110;)

Nope. No body lift here and I don't plan to fit one.
Just packed the front bumpstops by 20mm.;)

[Bush65]

Thanks you all for the quick reply. First the starter, my starter is a 12V that is held in place by 3ea. bolts. Obiously I dont have the LR flywheel cover which brings me to the next question.
Would it fit using the Isuzu flywheel cover and replacing the start unit with one more compact?

My Disco has the steeringwheel on the L/H side. Does any one knows if the engine will fit with the steeringwheel on the left side?

Another issue is the auto transmission most people agree that it wont last long. Whats your take on this? Have someone try to use the auto transmission of the Isuzu truck?

What about the L/R flywheel cover they are easy to come by in Australia? If so what is the market price?

Onece again thank you for the replies. The engine has been sitting for a year now and I am ready to get it install.
Any comment, pictures & ideas wheel be greatly appreciated.

YR
The 4BD1's used in Isuzu/Chev trucks the USA had the same 12V, 3 bolt, reduction gear, starter motor as Land Rover used here. But the Land Rover flywheel housing moved the starter higher.

4BD1's used in Isuzu trucks in Australia had 24V, 2 bolt, reduction gear, starter motors.

The reduction gearbox on these starters cause the width to increase substantially. That is why Dougal has used a direct drive starter (which is what I will do this time).

AFAIK, all Isuzu's in Australia, which had the 4BD1's only had manual gearboxes.

I'm not aware of anyone transplanting an auto from an Isuzu truck into a Land Rover.

The autos were used in Isuzu trucks in the USA. AFAIK they were Allison units, but the model used did not have overdrive or lock-up. By fitting another US auto, you can have o/d and lock-up. (the ZF used in Disco's is not up to the duty).

[rovercare]

Nope. No body lift here and I don't plan to fit one.
Just packed the front bumpstops by 20mm.;)

Just like this last one I bought, someone had done the conversion without a BL, motor sits to low and I think its crude, but only my opinion

[Dougal]

Just like this last one I bought, someone had done the conversion without a BL, motor sits to low and I think its crude, but only my opinion

Crude? How so?

Raising the COG of my truck by 2 inches without increasing ground clearance or suspension travel has never struck me as a good thing to do.

[rovercare]

Crude? How so?

Raising the COG of my truck by 2 inches without increasing ground clearance or suspension travel has never struck me as a good thing to do.

Packing out your bumpstops, keep in mind, mine is used for the bush

How haven't you reduced suspension travel? drop the shock towers to match?

[Dougal]

Packing out your bumpstops, keep in mind, mine is used for the bush

How haven't you reduced suspension travel? drop the shock towers to match?

I have reduced suspension travel by that 20mm or so extra in the longer bumpstops. It's been airborne a few times and seems to cope.

I have planned to put longer shocks in (80 series landcruiser or similar) but still haven't got around to it.
I considered chopping the shock towers, but that would mean those longer shocks above may no longer fit.
It's all on the list somewhere behind "fit intercooler" and somewhere before "cut and polish".

Still outflexes all the japanese stuff.;)

[discodiesel]

The 4BD1's used in Isuzu/Chev trucks the USA had the same 12V, 3 bolt, reduction gear, starter motor as Land Rover used here. But the Land Rover flywheel housing moved the starter higher.

4BD1's used in Isuzu trucks in Australia had 24V, 2 bolt, reduction gear, starter motors.

The reduction gearbox on these starters cause the width to increase substantially. That is why Dougal has used a direct drive starter (which is what I will do this time).

AFAIK, all Isuzu's in Australia, which had the 4BD1's only had manual gearboxes.

I'm not aware of anyone transplanting an auto from an Isuzu truck into a Land Rover.

The autos were used in Isuzu trucks in the USA. AFAIK they were Allison units, but the model used did not have overdrive or lock-up. By fitting another US auto, you can have o/d and lock-up. (the ZF used in Disco's is not up to the duty).
Apparently most people installed this engine on a LR and increase the HP and torque and the ZF is not up to the task. Now I am trying to found out is the transmission will hold fine running the engine without increasing the HP/Torque.

[Bush65]

Apparently most people installed this engine on a LR and increase the HP and torque and the ZF is not up to the task. Now I am trying to found out is the transmission will hold fine running the engine without increasing the HP/Torque.
The problem is not because the owner increased the hp or torque.

The problem is that it is a long stroke 4 cylinder diesel that makes a lot of torque in stock condition at low engine rpm's.

At low speeds the power pulses are spaced further apart than a 6 or 8cyl engine. The diesel fuel burns slower so when the long stroke crank is at nearly 80 degrees after top dead centre a lot of pressure applied to produce the high torque.

The torque is not applied smoothly at low speeds, which sets up strong torsional vibrations that destroy the transmission (manual and auto).

There is a vibration damper on the front of the crankshaft, but it does not do a good enough job to protect transmissions that are not of rugged construction. The very similar Cummins engine has a huge vibration damper and a much heavier flywheel by comparison.

The ZF transmission has a high enough power rating, but that is for smooth operation at higher speeds, not for the characteristics of a 4BD1.

Don't waste your time and money trying to get the rover ZF transmission to live happily behind a 4BD1. If you want an auto, get a rugged US transmission.

[justinc]

The problem is not because the owner increased the hp or torque.

The problem is that it is a long stroke 4 cylinder diesel that makes a lot of torque in stock condition at low engine rpm's.

At low speeds the power pulses are spaced further apart than a 6 or 8cyl engine. The diesel fuel burns slower so when the long stroke crank is at nearly 80 degrees after top dead centre a lot of pressure applied to produce the high torque.

The torque is not applied smoothly at low speeds, which sets up strong torsional vibrations that destroy the transmission (manual and auto).

There is a vibration damper on the front of the crankshaft, but it does not do a good enough job to protect transmissions that are not of rugged construction. The very similar Cummins engine has a huge vibration damper and a much heavier flywheel by comparison.

The ZF transmission has a high enough power rating, but that is for smooth operation at higher speeds, not for the characteristics of a 4BD1.

Don't waste your time and money trying to get the rover ZF transmission to live happily behind a 4BD1. If you want an auto, get a rugged US transmission.

Ditto here.
Just to add to what John says, I was fitting ZF's to mine at 10,000km intervals, the second one even had a low stall converter and beefier clutches etc, but still filled the sump pan with metallic bits and clutch material:(
One of the failed units had stripped the lock up clutch material clean off and was ruuning metal to metal:o

Go Allison and choose some high gearing/ bigger tyres.

JC

[discodiesel]

Ditto here.
Just to add to what John says, I was fitting ZF's to mine at 10,000km intervals, the second one even had a low stall converter and beefier clutches etc, but still filled the sump pan with metallic bits and clutch material:(
One of the failed units had stripped the lock up clutch material clean off and was ruuning metal to metal:o

Go Allison and choose some high gearing/ bigger tyres.

JC
John & JC Thanks for your reply.

OK so the ZF is a no go. I will like to keep the Disco automatic. What transmission do you guys recomend that has 4 speed, better if it does not use a computer and will hold behim the 4BD1T.

I was thinking about using the Isuzu automatic that came witlh the trucks the JATCO JR403E but, that brings a few questions to mind.
Would it be to long and Heavy for the Disco?
Fabrication of the adapter for the transfer case. Do you know of someone who has use this transmission?

Last option will be going with manual transmission.
What transmission you guys recomend?
Would it be to difficult to install the linkage of the Isuzu manual transmission?

If you guys can shed some light it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

Yamil

[Dougal]

I suspect that increasing the flywheel mass would be necessary to make these engines more gearbox friendly.

Take a look at this thread I started on 4btswaps.com about flywheel weights. The cummins 4BT uses a flywheel with at least twice the rotational inertia of the Isuzu one and it's a diesel of the same capacity.
Heavier flywheel? - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums (http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php't=6268)

My work car is a little nissan 4wd station wagon with a 2.2 diesel. It's flywheel is almost the same weight as the flywheel on my Isuzu 4BD1T. The pictures of Isuzu's 4BG1T industrial engine show a flywheel that is significantly thicker and heavier.
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/product/industrial/pdf/b_draw02.pdf