Defender post 2010 Any Goss??

[rumman43]

has anyone heard any goss bout the future of the defender??????

[Captain_Rightfoot]

The last I heard it was to be a "ruggedised" D3.

[Rangier Rover]

The last I heard it was to be a "ruggedised" D3.

With an air cooled 3 cylinder crank start engine:p

[Blknight.aus]

now your talking,

but its a low compression hot bulb diesel so you dont have to worry about the lucas electrical system failing.

it means you have to set fire to your car to start it but it does give you the opportunity to make yourself a coffee and jaffle.

[BilboBoggles]

Given the economic climate I wonder if the question should be if there is a future for Land Rover post 2010.... With the change to TATA ownership - I wonder how long their cash supply is going to last. Given they are begging for a $1B loan, I doubt they will have much cash for a new Fender. If they survive I would perhaps expect them to drop the Fender wherever it does not comply and perhaps only sell it where it can be sold.

[miky]

It's sure no Defender but how about the LRX?

Might be all they can get away with in the future. Same would be for other 4x4 makes.

LRX Concept (http://lrx.landrover.com)

[wally]

It's sure no Defender but how about the LRX?

Might be all they can get away with in the future. Same would be for other 4x4 makes.

LRX Concept (http://lrx.landrover.com)

Oh, stop it.

[alexmassey]

Surely they can modify the current one to meet the new laws? Would be cheaper then designing a new one.

Also i hope under the Tata ownership we see some real enthusiasm towards actually trying to sell the Defender in Australia.... I mean i have never seen a Defender Ad on TV here......

Right from TD5 onwards they have had a very competitive product.

The 130 Duel Cab is a perfect example nothing else in its class. I was talking to a bloke out in Central QLD the other day and he was saying there's NO Dealer network getting parts is not easy. He would love a 130 for his workers for moving Men out to job sites and towing caravans/trailers (which 130s are brilliant for!) BUT the problem of Parts the Land Rover dealer network has gone to the $hithouse since the Mid 1960s.

So he went for 2x 6-Cyl Turbo Land Cruisers cheap parts,Dealer in town


1: TD4 Defender has more power then a standard 6-Cyl Diesel Toyota Land Cruiser..
2: 6-Speed better Cruise
3: Better Fuel
4: Cheaper Rego

Enough of my ranting.....

[Rangier Rover]

Defenders have the smallest doors:mad: I hope they fix ;)

[rumman43]

For such an awesome car I am left speechless why they dont promote it more.
TRUE story
I sold my defender coupla months ago.Wanted to update. anyhow was real Keen on a new one. Missus was not sure but prepared to have a look.
went for the test drive. wife said.
mmm aircon good..
drives better....
cruises better
I like the back seats.. I'm thinking good stuff.
Then says..Those salesmen were the rudest *****s she's ever met (hopes fading)..and that even if she wanted a defender she would not get one off these *****s..
where else can you get one???
You can't I said...
I now drive a nissan patrol..

I still harbour fantisies bout getting another one....
one day...maybe

[Nera Donna]

Sorry to hear you went down the Nissan road. I went the other way after three Nissans I went to a Defender. Did you go to Barbgallo's in Ozzy park or Southerns? Me personally found the guys a Ozzy park very rude. So I traveled down to Southerns. Like you I'm from the Northern Burbs. A mate bought a new D3 two years ago and did the same thing. He's Nothern Burbs as well. Good luck with the Patrol anyway (I still ahve a soft spot for the old girls):)

[rumman43]

You hit on the money...was ozzie park...
Nissan is a great family bus. I'm really happy with it..
thing is i still search for defender goss..not nissan..Know what the heart wants..
one day

[JDNSW]

Defenders have the smallest doors:mad: I hope they fix ;)

Doors have been the same size since 1958. Not going to change short of a complete redesign.

It is almost impossible to say what the current financial situation will do to Landrover or any other company. In my view, what is likely to happen is to put just about everything on hold. It is all very well to say that the future of car company X depends on getting a new model into production, but with a negative cash flow and no hope of getting any capital, the best it can hope for is to rationalise the production facilities and models and continue to produce its best sellers (or more accurately its most profitable models - not necessarily the same). Where Landrover is likely to run into complications is if, for example, an engine supplier stops making that model engine.

So in my view, the most likely thing to happen to the Defender replacement is for it to be pushed further into the future with minimal changes to the current model. The only real alternative would be a new model on the D3 platform, which would involve a lot of tooling, and in the current climate, it is difficult to see how Landrover could find the money for this.

John

[Sleepy]

I would think we've still got a few years left.

The military may determine it's future.

Although a 2.7l tdv6 defender would be nice? 6 Sp Auto?

[rumman43]

Doors have been the same size since 1958. Not going to change short of a complete redesign.

It is almost impossible to say what the current financial situation will do to Landrover or any other company. In my view, what is likely to happen is to put just about everything on hold. It is all very well to say that the future of car company X depends on getting a new model into production, but with a negative cash flow and no hope of getting any capital, the best it can hope for is to rationalise the production facilities and models and continue to produce its best sellers (or more accurately its most profitable models - not necessarily the same). Where Landrover is likely to run into complications is if, for example, an engine supplier stops making that model engine.

So in my view, the most likely thing to happen to the Defender replacement is for it to be pushed further into the future with minimal changes to the current model. The only real alternative would be a new model on the D3 platform, which would involve a lot of tooling, and in the current climate, it is difficult to see how Landrover could find the money for this.

John

I'm with you John..I reckon 2010 will turn into 2012..
maybe new engine..but basically same car.
The defender is like the Caribou aircraft in the RAAF..Bloody old design ..needs replacing..But NOTHING can do the same job...hence the gravel truck is still round.

ab

[stealth]

so you didn't buy one because your wife didn't like the salesman??????!!!!!!!!!

[Nera Donna]

My two cents worth…..If TATA start production of the Defender in India (??????) I reckon it’ll stay just the way it is for a long time to come. Engine and drive chain may change but the rest will keep on keeping on. Why? Having done a bit of worked in India two years back. I noticed that the little yellow and black taxi on the road are old Ambassadors. Made just the way they where when England sold the patent to them god knows how many years age. Also I looked a buying a brand new, straight off the show room floor 500cc Royal Enfield. Still made there! There is no copy right as such from what I under stand. Plagiarism of well know brands is rife. Now this is only what I perceived to have seen. I’m saying this is gospel. But as I said before IF they decide to manufacture Defenders in Indian I don’t thing we’ll have to worry too much about replacement parts for a while.

[spudfan]

I would suggest that should Tata continue with the Defender they will produce as much material for it as they can inhouse.I know they are a big steel producer so they might scrap the birmabright body and go for an all steel one.I suppose it will depend on where Tata sees it's main markets.
If it is to be India,China and other places where emission controls do not dictate the type of car that is produced they might go for a real back to basics no frills vehicle that people with little money would be glad to get.Something that can be repaired by the local blacksmith if necessary.Such a vehicle would not be saleable in the so called developed world with it's laws on airbags and exhaust emissions etc.I am sure that a new spec series Land Rover would be a very useful piece of machinery in an Indian village.The wealth of electronics we have to have due to various laws will of course not be included.
Whether Tata continues the Defender for us is another matter.It might not be commercially viable for them to do so if they must keep changing to comply with stricter laws.
Just to finish.Mercedes make the Unimog.It hardly sells in huge volumes, is very expensive and hardly has any components in common with main stream Mercedes cars.Yet it is still commercially viable to produce.You wonder how the Defender keeps getting written of as expensive to produce etc.etc.The Defender makes a perfectly acceptable family car but you could hardly say the same about the Unimog.Only time will tell.

[3toes]

Legislation is only relative to the market, the volume you expect to achieve and profit margin.

Hence the threat by BMW motor bikes division to leave the Australian market in the late eighties if Australia went ahead with its proposed noise and emission rules for motor bikes. Why should bikes be allowed to get away with high polution levels both noise and exhaust? While only a bit player in terms of volume a cynic would say they were able to bring enough pressure to bear from their specialised customers to have the rules killed. Most of their sales were to police users who did not want to change brands.

Toyota sells the same 4x4 around the world - right? Wrong the spec including emissions and electronics are changed to match the needs /wants of the particular market. Africa and other more undeveloped markets receive vehicles which when you lift the bonnet are tech free versions of what is sold in developed countries.

Even the tractor maufacturers do the same a John Deere for the Australian market is full of electronics while one for India has none and can still be kept going with repairs from fencing wire.

The Indian Royal Enfield is not a knock off version. Production of the bike commenced in India when it was still a current model and continued. As the Indian market was protected from imports there was no need for a new model just subtle update like an electric start.

[eksjay]

Sorry to hear you went down the Nissan road. I went the other way after three Nissans I went to a Defender. Did you go to Barbgallo's in Ozzy park or Southerns? Me personally found the guys a Ozzy park very rude. So I traveled down to Southerns. Like you I'm from the Northern Burbs. A mate bought a new D3 two years ago and did the same thing. He's Nothern Burbs as well. Good luck with the Patrol anyway (I still ahve a soft spot for the old girls):)

Perhaps this "dealer rudeness" should be a new thread? I am an XJ 95 Chekka owner who does like Land Rover Defenders. When I bought my chekka new in '96, it only narrowly beat the Defender as a choice for reasons I cannot remember. To this day, I have never been disappointed with the XJ. Now, I have been slowly considering purchasing a new Fender, the Puma to replace the XJ. I walked into two showrooms where my reflection was bouncing off the polished tiled floor, and blinding me. I started to ask about the 60 anniversary model on display in both dealerships [in Sydney], but declared interest in the vanilla model. Was "it available for a test drive?". I got snooty looks, one word answers from so-called sales people [on other questions] etc.. .... well, you quickly get the picture.

Couldn't believe that in the current economic climate, I was getting the brush off. Anyway, my request to arrange a time for a test drive was glossed over and as I mentioned, my other questions drew one word responses. In one dealership, the demonstrator was downstairs - doesn't matter now ...

The same thought has hit me as other posters in this thread. I still like the Puma, and all Defenders, I understand its current and future problems, appreciate the history, but have decided to admire from afar. I am not prepared to go through a dealership and put up with the snootyness of sales reps. They don't deserve my time, my money in their commission, or keeping their polished tiled floors clean.

If they offer this kind of interest in pre-sales, I did not really want to sample their after sales customer service. I think I will keep my XJ for a little longer....:cool:

[Chucaro]

eksjay if all of us were to select a vehicle based on the attitude of the salesman we will be riding horses.

I asked a jeep salesman few questions about the new Jeep and he did not have a clue about the vehicle that he was selling. 98% of the car salesman are the same.

[mickygee]

just to balance things a little, i had a very good experience when i bought my o8 defender, John from purnell motors in blakehurst let me take one out for a test drive for half a day. i didnt buy it then. i came back about a month later and he remembered me. he was very polite but with minimal pressure, having been a car and house sales agent in a past life i can spot salespeak a mile away but john was sincere. their finance dept was very efficient and got my application approved in about 1 day. i would highly recommend John if you need a land rover.
forgot to mention, their after sales service is just as good so far

[eksjay]

Riding Horses? We would probably be better off! Wouldn't need an army of electricians and IT specialists to tell us why particular warning lights are coming up on the dash!

I agree, you can get Jeep dealers who are clueless about their product -although this has not been my experience in presales - and the same can be said for any other make. However, it is the "snootyness" and indifference of the two LR dealerships that I visited -that got to me. I never said anything about their product knowledge.

For the record, I had a pleasant experience at Purnell Motors when they were based in Arncliffe. They extended every courtesy back then and were very helpful, even though I did not buy a car from them. I have since moved-and so have they, and I am too far from Purnell to make it worth my while, particularly the servicing side. It is other dealerships that I would never visit for reasons given, and only people who have experienced this sort of thing first hand would understand.;)

[dullbird]

Riding Horses? We would probably be better off! Wouldn't need an army of electricians and IT specialists to tell us why particular warning lights are coming up on the dash!
I agree, you can get Jeep dealers who are clueless about their product -although this has not been my experience in presales - and the same can be said for any other make. However, it is the "snootyness" and indifference of the two LR dealerships that I visited -that got to me. I never said anything about their product knowledge.

For the record, I had a pleasant experience at Purnell Motors when they were based in Arncliffe. They extended every courtesy back then and were very helpful, even though I did not buy a car from them. I have since moved-and so have they, and I am too far from Purnell to make it worth my while, particularly the servicing side. It is other dealerships that I would never visit for reasons given, and only people who have experienced this sort of thing first hand would understand.;)

No you just need vets, farriers, dentists, saddlers and even physio's to keep your horse running. If you dont maintain a horse it won't work either....same for any car:D

[Slunnie]

has anyone heard any goss bout the future of the defender??????
My guess.... all new Defender

New engine and gearbox... all TaTa and 90kw of power but an upgrade as it now produces an extra 10Nm.

Steel dash will now be padded.

Leaf springs will be replaced with all new parabolic springs

High output headlights now 55w.

New alternator to cope with headlights. 55amp

Windscreen wipers.... optional



Actually, it really sounds a bit like the Sanatana.

[islu51]

According to a very close friend who owns a LR Main dealer in the UK, and is a big Defender seller, there are no changes due now until 2015. The 07 addressed all EU requirements that come into play up until that time. And as the defender sales are increasing worldwide and the rest falling, maybe TATA will realize it's value to the company.

[spudfan]

Regarding clueless sales reps.Some time ago when the Td5 was the new kid on the block I called into a main dealers to look at one.My tdi was parked outside.When looking at the Td5 a sales rep came over and told that it was "direct injection".So is mine I told him."ARE YOU SURE?" he asked.I rest my case.
When the Puma or Tdci arrived I went in to look at the new beast.First thing I did was to lie down and crawl underneath and have a good look.I even had a flash lamp.When I surfaced an immaculately dressed sales rep was looking at me from his office door.I then proceded to remove the passenger seat base to look at the bits and pieces therein.After that up went the bonnet. I turned to the rep and all he said was "I'LL LEAVE YOU TO IT"
My point being the sales rep does not know much about the car other than what you can pay for on the options list.If you have any type of Land Rover knowledge they generally let you get on with it.I like this attitude when they let you get on with it in your own way.
I did buy a Puma or Tdci and have no regrets.My wife loves it too drivability wise.Bit of a shock going back to the 200 tdi now the second car.

[eksjay]

Perhaps you are right, Spudfan? Could I have misconstrued things? I too asked the rep to pop the bonnet so I can have a look. He said "there really isn't much to see under the bonnet". Gimmie a break!

If I am paying $50K plus for a new Deefer [or any car], I want to see what is under the bonnet, under the seat, under the frame, and be under and over everything.

He too was immaculately dressed, and barely looking 15. Are we talking about the same dealership? If he wanted to sell one, he should have insisted on a test drive rather than stonewall when I brought up the subject.

A pattern might be emerging judging from some of the prior posts here. Perhaps the main Landy dealers [Purnell excluded] ought to have a special annexe adjoining their showroom for Deefer cars and clients only, in case these buyers are an embarassment to them, and keep them out of the way of people who really do want to tread on marble floors in search of other machines.

Perhaps another explanation is that they only sell to royalty and have been trained in a Landy academy that deals only with bloo blood.:confused:

[spudfan]

Doubt we are talking about the same dealership-I am in Ireland!Seems to be a common thing the world over i.e. the sales rep reads the brochure but does not know much about the vehicle as such.To him it is a product to shift.Usually it is better to talk to the back room crowd who service them.
Some years ago I went to the parts department of a main dealer-same one as in the earlier post.I wanted a gasket for the breather on the engine of a 200tdi.They asked me why I wanted one.I told them that I wanted to remove the breather to clean it so I needed a new gasket according to the workshop manual when I fitted the breather back on to the engine."We never clean them or remove them so we don't stock the gasket".I thought that the odd cleaning would be beneficial to the engine.You live and learn.

[Slunnie]

A pattern might be emerging judging from some of the prior posts here. Perhaps the main Landy dealers [Purnell excluded] ought to have a special annexe adjoining their showroom for Deefer cars and clients only, in case these buyers are an embarassment to them, and keep them out of the way of people who really do want to tread on marble floors in search of other machines.
I think one of the key things with the Defender, is that it is an image vehicle for the marque. Land Rover are all about 4WD's, their whole image needs to reflect that they have the best vehicles that will take you anywhere, something that probably is the reason why they've put so much effort previously into supporting armed forces, Camel trophy and the likes. I tend to think that a little later they became more lifestyle with the associated changes to ownership and marketing. When people see the Defender that think that thing will go ANYWHERE! and when it sits next to the rest of the range there is an association, and so all of a sudden the Freelander, Discovery, RRS and Rangie are also go anywhere as they're manufactured by the same company, and the company knows how to make things offroad - but the other vehicles add creature comforts and onroad performance that the consumer expects. I at least think that this is the reason why the Defender will always grace the marble floor rather than the slurry pit out the back.