LPG conversion for 99 P38

[willem]

G'day guys,

I want to get an LPG conversion for my 99 Rangie, with the later Thor ignition system.

There are two options - Gas injection, and an Impco mixer. does anyone have experience with either of these want to comment? Any recommendations for fitters in the Melbourne/ Geelong area?

Willem

[whitey0069]

Hello all as well,

I am also interested in this option for a 98 hse, I have heard that the gas injection is the better option but would like to here from people with actual experience once conversion working. I am in the Canberra Sydney area if anyone knows a good fitter as well.

Cheers
Craig:)

[81stubee]

Hi Guys,

This has been pretty much done to death . If you do a search you will find plenty of Info. Personally I would go with gas injection from a reputable land-rover specialist.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/64206-lpg-1996-4-6-p38.html?highlight=LPG+P38
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/wa-aulroians-group/60208-lpg-not.html?highlight=LPG+P38
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/range-rover/59340-thinking-converting-my-p38-lpg.html?highlight=LPG+P38
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/59702-adding-lpg-rr-p38.html?highlight=LPG+P38
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/47634-p38a-4-6-lpg-conversion-info.html?highlight=LPG+P38

There you go, i've done the hardwork for you! ;)

You could also check out rangerovers.net as there are heaps of poms with LPG on there P38's.

Stu

[willem]

Thanks 81 Stubee, for all those links.

I am still getting some confused signals about the right system to use for the Thor type Rangies. Some seem to the think that the Impco mixer system is fine - LP Gas1 and AG Autogas in Melbourne both reckon its fine and will guarantee for 3 years against backfires. But there are those in this forum who are adamant that the gas vapour system is the only way to go.

The Impco is cheaper - best price so far is $3100. But they reckon fuel economy is 20% worse. And there is the possibility of destructive backfires.

The gas vapour injection system is more expensive - a whopping $6700 is the only price I've heard, here on the forum, though Ron B reckons he's got a cheaper source, though how much cheaper I don't know. I'll ring them tomorrow to find out. But - no backfires, and roughly the same economy as petrol.

If there really are backfire problems with the Impco, that rules it out. But I've had an Impco system on my '92 3.9 for the last 4 years and it has been faultless. But my 99 has the Thor system, so its a different kettle of fish.

I suppose what I'd really like to hear is experience of people with 99 on models on both systems. Is the gas vapour system worth the extra cash?

Willem

[81stubee]

I firmly believe that a Gas Injection system is the only way to go. I'm not saying a mixer system won't work and many people have had great success, especially with the newer electronicly controlled type. But bear in mind that rangies already have average fuel economy so add 20% to that figure. You are also limited by tank size as you can only put a donut tank in the spare wheel well, which is about ~80L unless put one across the load space.

IMHO you are effectively putting a Carburettor on a car that was meant to be injected. A perfectly tuned carburettor will run perfectly and give great economy until you slightly change its operating parameters, whether it be dodgy batch of fuel, really cold snap or many other things. A computerised injection system can compensate for all these variables.

I had a quote from Deacon Auto of about $5100 for injection on GEMS, they said there was a better IMPCO injection system for about $6200 for the THOR motor but not worth it on GEMS as the BOSCH system can compensate more. Deacon are meant to be really good and do a great job, but can be a bit pricey.

Hope this helps.

Stu

P.S. Congrats on taking the plunge and getting a P38

[Remy]

Hi Willem,

I had vapour on a D1. It was OK but economy was lousy (170 - 220 km for 55L or around 30L/100km). Power was OK but i did get backfires which split the intake pipe. I have installed gas injection on my P38. Bloody brilliant! I cannot notice a power drop and it runs at about 15l/100 km according to the computer (need to check that against that real km and litres) (also got a Haltech installed and dyno - both petrol and LPG about 97kw at the wheels) although the power is distributed along the curve a bit different for LPG (lower at low revs when compared to petrol) which makes it a bit sluggish off the mark on gas. once rolling it is fine.

Mister Gas (Peter) in Sydney did mine for $4600 with a 72L donut tank. So far all seems excellent. The shop looks a bit dodgy but the quality of work was good and he had done a few P38's which is why i went to him rather than others.
PM me a contact number if you want to talk about it. I would also check out liquid gas injection (better economy and power than petrol supposedly) which has just starting coming out. I know Peter has done a couple although i am not sure how much to install.

Cheers,
Remy

[strange_rover1]

I am waiting for my 98HSE to arrive home any minute now, then I will take it for a test drive. We have just had Gas Injection put on. Will let ya know soon.
Shano

[2door grover]

I have done the gas injection on the wifes 95 p38, best thing we did! got told buy 3 shops that it can't be done before i got to him. Get about 300- 350 ks (around town) out of 60-65L of gas. you can't notice a power difference with the foot to the floor on gas or fuel. use a donut tank where the spare wheel was. Spare is now mounted in the boot

if people are looking for a good guy to use around A.C.T go see ace gas conversions, he was great, have had it in the car for about 3 months now with out any problems

[strange_rover1]

Our gas guy tried to talk us out of injected, I have no idea why as I have heard of a lot of problems with the mixer set up. Anyway looking forward to the cheaper fuel for a few years until the gas excise comes into effect!!
Shano

[jhb_16010]

I have had my 99 P38 on gas injection for over 12 months now. The conversion was done by Deacon in Bentleigh East, Melbourne for $6,500 less the $2,000 govt rebate. I have a 90 litre x 72 useable donut tank in the spare wheel well.
Available capacity varies between 68 - 71 litres depending on the current atmospheric temperature.
No noticeable difference in performance, although at high revs under full throttle it will switch back to petrol momentarily, as the gas at those revs doesn't have enough energy content to satisfy the demand.
Average consumption around town (not on freeway car parks) for 70 litres is around 320 - 330 km and on a trip, it is close to 400 km. This is with Shell LPG, which seems to have a propane/butane mixture equal to premium unleaded. I get worse consumption on Mobil and haven't tried other suppliers. Pure propane would give better consumption or performance.
It took around 10,000 km for the system to settle in, but now it is excellent and even at today's lower fuel prices, I am still happy.
I would recommend this to anyone with the available cash.
:) JHB_16010

[strange_rover1]

We now have our 98 HSE converted with Injected gas. I am just coming up tio finishing the first gas tank of 68 lt and will probably be just over the 300 km mark, that is around town. I am more than happy with the whole conversion and havent noticed a difference in performance at all.
Shano

[MoodyBlue]

Willem,
I opted for the Tartarini sequential gas injection system.

I have also purchased the cable and black box to interogate the system via a laptop.

The basic details of what I opted for are:

Tartarini injection,

100 litre acroos between the wheel arches as I:

never lay the seats down

Wanted Max capacity

Did not want to move or lose the spare wheel

Need to carry a long shaft 8hp outboard motor which fits neatly across just inside the tailgate

Cost $5,000 minus the rebate = $3,000 all up.

End result

Filler is beside fuel cap (Inside the fuel filler flap)

HP is as good or better than petrol,

400 k from 95 litres, and driven hard. Don't know how far with gentle driving

What I feel helps performance is twin 2 1/2" exhaust system (Glorious note even on gas):p

Cheers

Jeff

[MoodyBlue]

Willem,
I forgot, ours is a 4.6 96 HSE

Cheers

Jeff

[willem]

Willem,

I opted for the Tartarini sequential gas injection system.
...

Cost $5,000 minus the rebate = $3,000 all up.

End result

Filler is beside fuel cap (Inside the fuel filler flap)

HP is as good or better than petrol,

400 k from 95 litres, and driven hard. Don't know how far with gentle driving
...

Cheers

Jeff


G'day Jeff,

Thanks for this info. Most useful! Where did you get yours done?

The feedback I am getting from a variety of sources is that the sequential gas injection system is the go. the downside is the couple of grand greater expense.

Willem

[Remy]

Hi Willem,

The sequential is more expensive but you won't be disappointed! Better fuel economy and power. Along with what others have said you also don't have to worry about changing over from petrol to lpg as this is taken care of by the computer. I put a Eurogas system in mine. There are numerous systems out there and after talking to quite a few installers including some of the ones mentioned in previous posts it is important to get a system that uses steel injectors. Many of the plastic injectors seem to fail and i have seen bags of plastic injectors sitting on the floors of installers. Second make sure you choose a installer who has done rangies before. The Eurogas system has a good reputation as i am sure some of the other injection systems.

Hope all goes well!
cheers
Remy




G'day Jeff,

Thanks for this info. Most useful! Where did you get yours done?

The feedback I am getting from a variety of sources is that the sequential gas injection system is the go. the downside is the couple of grand greater expense.

Willem

[MoodyBlue]

Willem,
My P38 was converted by Romsey Auto Care.

Cheers
Jeff

[willem]

Thanks, Jeff! Now where the heck is Romsey?

Aahh - about halfway to Bendigo. Should be a good drive!

Were you happy with their work?

Willem

[MoodyBlue]

Willem,
I think they done a pretty good install.

I made a few re-routing of the the hoses to the converter and some wires, only because I need to get at the 60 amp fuse for our boat winch, and the cooling hoses for the converter were 1/4" too high and were going to rub a hole in the sound proofing under the bonnet.

Other than that they left the fuel gauge for me to mount (at my request) because I like to sit and look at "Options" before drilling holes anywhere on the dash.

I think I'm ahead, as it was costing $1100 per month for petrol, and this month only cost $300 for the same approx mileage:p

PS: Deakin automotive quoted about $5400 but were only talking doughnut where the spare wheel goes.

Cheers

Jeff

[p38arover]

Willem, when you come up to Sydney, you can drive mine (injected LPG) - the car I nearly sold you!