gearbox problems- advice please

[kristen]

i will be setting off on a trip around australia in less than three months, but we have a major issue with our series 2a landrover. It has a holden 202 engine and a series 3 gearbox, which was recently reconditioned, but we keep having problem after problem with the gearbox. A month ago we had to get the input shaft re-engineered because of a problem with a bearing, and this morning it just would not go into gear at all, which we assume is a problem with the selector levers. We have spent over $15000 getting this landy up to scratch for the trip, and everything is in top shape except the gearbox.
Has anyone else encountered problems with this particular engine/gearbox combination, and i would love advice on whether to try and recondition gearbox AGAIN, or install a different unit, or sell the whole thing for scrap and buy a toyota!
Please help before the poor landy gets pushed off a cliff...
Thanks,
Kristen

[Blknight.aus]

what was done as part of the re-machine?

normally the holden motors take out the rear diff and the axle?

what part of the box are you normally taking out? If its the front bearing then your conversion has not been done correctly and the engine is out of line with the gearbox. As the gearbox front bearing relies on the position of the spigot bearing to keep the front shaft in line if the engine is mounted wrong you will quickly wear the input bearing and then take out the support bearing for the input to output shaft (which also makes 3rd and 4th jumpy) and then begins to eat off the primary reduction gear (the first always engaged gearset that drives the layshaft)

if thats your problem turf the adaptor ring on the engine and replace it with a known true one. Then rebuild the box. (I might have an old one kicking around somewhere)

if the front plate of the box has been hammered I dont care how much reworking you do of the shafts until you correctly shim up the bearings in the front plate you wont get a good life out of the box.


best of luck.

[kristen]

the rear diff died the week before the input shaft bearing- we had them fixed at the same time. I have read a few posts here that the 202 might be a bit too much for the rear diff, didn't quite believe it until I saw it. One option we are considering is going back to original 2a engine and gearbox.
sorry for being a little under-educated, but would any of the problems you described below cause the problem of not being able to select ANY gear? It sounds like what you describe is a gradual process, not a sudden failure.

[alexmassey]

Hi Kristen

You have to think as well can you trust the 202 and the rest of the driveline for your whole trip around Australia? I mean who's to say it won't break another diff?

If you have the option when the gearbox is out to replace the engine with the original EVERYTHING original i think your problems will just dissppear.

Tho getting a 2.25 up to scratch in time might make this option a no no.

[Blknight.aus]

its very unusual for a series box to get into such a state that it cant select any gear, usually you can force 4th but it will jump out.

the failure I described can go with a nice "sorry but Im trying to warn you about something not being right and will take the next 2 years to slowly make whiring noises and then make gears jump out before finally giving up with a cacophony of clacks and bangs before finally stripping every gear while making a sound akin to a set of hot wheels cars in a blender" or it can just go...

"bang, clacky grind grind whrrtttltlttllll NO DRIVE FOR YOU."

so when you say its not engaging any gears do you mean as in the shifter cant move the selectors or that the selectors move and its not actually providing drive?

if youve gotten the tunnel cover up you can remove the top of the box to eyeball the selectors, detents and interlocks in case its something there just fouling the motion of the selector rods.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Kirsten

You are having quite a few woes and that't very unfortunate.

While for the purists Holden engines are anathema, the truth is that a huge proportion of Land Rovers that exist today would not be here except for Holden engines.

The Holden engine was a very common conversion and is reliable although a little more thirsty that the 186 engine, which many feel is a better fit for the Land Rover for a number of reasons, mostly the fact that 202's get hot in a Landy so an oil cooler is a serious consideration for the round Australia trip.

AS blknight says, that you are having so many problems is an issue in itself. The Holden engine conversion kit made by Dello Motors had a reputation for being out of alignment and sometimes not even parallel from front to rear. The better adapted plates were the ones made by Johnstone Bros in Geelong Vic or the ones made by Roy Sim in Sydney. I prefer the Roy Sim kit and it can usually be identified as an all steel welded plate while the Johnstone kit was cast iron or aluminium. The dello kits were cast aluminium.

In a 109" the torque of the Holden 202 is liable to break the Rover rear axle components, particularly on rocky climbs. The Salisbury 4.7:1 rear diff from the Series 3 is a good option, are easy to find and provided you get the drive shaft to match your 4 or 6 cyl chassis they are a direct swap. In an 88" the Salisbury conversion is a lot more work because of the pinion length.

I would be having someone who knows about Landies and not the person who did your recent work do an audit of what's happening.

Diana

[Blknight.aus]

forgot....

you need to let us know where you're at... there may be people who are willing to help you out or that know of good places to go to get the work done locally to you.

I have some spares that you can get a lend of if needed on a "get you to limping" basis to keep you mobile while you get your gear rebuilt.


I also have a sals that you can get an eyeball at to work out weather you want to think about going that way (I did and would again).

[Newbs-IIA]

For a round australia trip I would back a holden motor over a rover. Even if they do break down (not likely if set up properly with HEI ignition and proper thermostat & cooling system) they are VERY easy to get parts for, anyone can get stuff for a red motor but LRs are a little less common. I agree with the comment about the conversion plate being out. What not try a IIA 'box next time round - sure its a crash box but it should be a little stronger than the SIII 'box. Just go easier on the right foot to avoid diff breakages :D

[RobHay]

If you still have the IIA box I would be slipping that back in........once you are absolutely certain that the engine is in alignment and is not going to flog your gear box to bits.

The IIA box is, in my opinion, by far the better,and stronger, box.(One of the best gear boxs ever built by Rover

The 2.25 engine is one of the wonders of the world....has taken Land Rovers all around the world and through some very ruggered terrain, and is more than capable of taking you around AUSTRALIA.

[Olive Drab]

I got one here as well if Dave doesn't have one. Good luck with it. And have a blast on your trip.

[kristen]

thanks for all the tips and offers of parts, but we already have the salsbury diff!
having spoken to some land rover fanatics here in Dubbo, we have decided to put a 2.25l Land rover petrol motor back in and keep the series 3 gearbox. We will be converting it to gas/petrol as the 202 is at the moment. With the extra space in the engine bay we should also be able to fit extractors and a snorkel kit, which will hopefully bring the performance of the 2.25 up to what we are used to with the 202.
thanks,
Kristen

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If you still have the IIA box I would be slipping that back in........once you are absolutely certain that the engine is in alignment and is not going to flog your gear box to bits.

The IIA box is, in my opinion, by far the better,and stronger, box.(One of the best gear boxes ever built by Rover ...

Rob

I think you should clarify that statement a little the later gearboxes from suffix "D" were the best boxes in terms of reliability and ratios. The suffix "C" and earlier boxes still had a weakness in the layshaft.

The Series 3 layshaft is even better than the SIIA boxes because it is one piece with the big problem in the SIII box being the early cases which shot the reverse idler out the side of the box.

When it comes down to it the best box is the one that you have when its not jumping out of gear or breaking things.

Diana

[JDNSW]

Rob

I think you should clarify that statement a little the later gearboxes from suffix "D" were the best boxes in terms of reliability and ratios. The suffix "C" and earlier boxes still had a weakness in the layshaft.

The Series 3 layshaft is even better than the SIIA boxes because it is one piece with the big problem in the SIII box being the early cases which shot the reverse idler out the side of the box.

When it comes down to it the best box is the one that you have when its not jumping out of gear or breaking things.

Diana

My experience is even the late S3 boxes are far more prone to jumping out of gear than any of the earlier boxes, and also more prone to shedding bits of synchros (helped by having more).

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

JD not debating you about the SIII jumping out of gear, although you must admit that the SIII layshaft makes it a stronger box and set up correctly doesn't jump out of gear.

Diana

[JDNSW]

JD not debating you about the SIII jumping out of gear, although you must admit that the SIII layshaft makes it a stronger box and set up correctly doesn't jump out of gear.

Diana

The S3 layshaft is, as you say, stronger - but then I've never busted a layshaft in any Landrover gearbox. But I have had Series 3s jump out of gear far more often than S1/2/2a. Set up correctly and treated with some semblance of respect, none of the Series gearboxes can be regarded as troublesome.

John

[Big Unit]

I hope you get it sorted.
I would like to see pictures of your Rover, and of the trip around Australia.
Best of British luck.

[Blknight.aus]

^^X2...

dont forget to drop in an itinerary you might be able to colocate and get a local BBQ going to meet some of the AULRO folk.

[Bren]

Hi Kristen,

Best of luck with the trip - you have obviously made your choice with running gear. I travelled Aust for 3 years in a 2A lwb, holden 186, 2a box and range rover diffs with maxidrive axles. Went well accept the brass bushes in gearbox giving up with about 200km back to Brisbane ( made it home in forth believe it or not). When in Kununura I went halves with a farmer I was working for in a ute with a 202 in it for about 200 bucks. He got my 186 and the ute and I got the 202. Far better fuel economy due to the power to weight ratio of carrying gear around Aust. The 186 is a revy motor and the 202 is the workhorse.

I now have a 2a swb with the extractors and it is no comparison to the 202. Your fuel economy would be far better in the 202 with all the weight etc. and as someone said holden parts are everywhere.

I am very jealous, have fun,
Bren