TD5 Dual Mass Flywheel upgrade advice....

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi All,
I need to replace a clutch in a Defender TD5 thats used a lot for heavy towing, is remapped and needs to be reliable. Current mileage 30,000 miles (48,000km).

Options available:
1. Simply replace the clutch, cover, release bearing with LandRover/OE kit
2. As above but with AP Driveline (previously Borg & Beck ??) clutch plate
3. Replace the Dual Mass Flywheel with a solid one and uprate the clutch plate, cover and release bearing in the pursuit or longer reliability??

Has anyone used a Solid flywheel on a TD5. Is there much induced chatter/noise etc etc? Are they smooth to use? Ive heard about them before but have no experience of them...

Any thoughts welcomed...

[discowhite]

Hi All,
I need to replace a clutch in a Defender TD5 thats used a lot for heavy towing, is remapped and needs to be reliable. Current mileage 30,000 miles (48,000km).

Options available:
1. Simply replace the clutch, cover, release bearing with LandRover/OE kit
2. As above but with AP Driveline (previously Borg & Beck ??) clutch plate ide go with this option and a new OE DM flywheel.
3. Replace the Dual Mass Flywheel with a solid one and uprate the clutch plate, cover and release bearing in the pursuit or longer reliability?? for heavy towing i wouldnt use a solid flywheel.

Has anyone used a Solid flywheel on a TD5. Is there much induced chatter/noise etc etc? Are they smooth to use? Ive heard about them before but have no experience of them...

Any thoughts welcomed...

ive just replaced my clutch assy, all with OE parts, i tow a camper tralier and sometimes car trailers, 90 is chipped and i think that a soild FW would cause havoc with the drive line.

cheers phil

[Blknight.aus]

last time I priced it all up its cheaper to go the EOM parts than the after market parts....

in theory the dual mas fly wheel also helps by acting like a harmonic balancer without which its feasable to damage other stuff.

I cant see the gearbox liking a single mass flywheel having watched how much the td5 vibrates at idle

If I knew that It was never going to be operated in a manner that would need the dual mass (Ie driven full stick all the time) then Id probabley go it in a heart beat but In reality, like you, Im waiting for some real life info to come about on the sinlge mass and not just stuff from the manufacturers,

Although if you apply the "you only ever hear the bad news" rule to the interentet I havent heard of any problems with them that isnt conjecture so they might be great.

[Bundalene]

Hi All,
I need to replace a clutch in a Defender TD5 thats used a lot for heavy towing, is remapped and needs to be reliable. Current mileage 30,000 miles (48,000km).



Any thoughts welcomed...

Just curious on why you have to change the clutch at 30,000 miles?

I pulled my TD5 Disco apart and changed the clutch at 180,000ks and the clutch plate was still like new. I had a noisy spiggot bush.

I would also keep the dual mass flywheel for the reasons already stated.

Cheers,
Erich

[justinc]

I'm suggesting 4HP24EH with compushift sounds like the go here...:cool:

Seriously though, Dual mass flywheel is there for a reason. Just because some frequencies/ harmonic vibrations sometimes are not intrusive, doesn't mean they aren't doing any harm. I would say that a fair amount of FEA went into the design of the Td5 and it's inherent characteristics. Stick with the OE setup.:)

JC

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Thanks for the input guys...

Clutch needs changing cos its starting to slip under high torque demand.

The car had a new gearbox (replaced by LR under warranty) about 9 months ago... Dont know if that has any bearing on it. Either way they wont change the clutch under warranty.

Ive run TDi's with 130,000 miles on the original clutch before. Was expecting the TD5 to get to at least 80,000. That said, this one does do a lot of heavy towing. Im also wondering if a stage 2 remap combined with the towing is the issue.

Thinking out loud though... 99% of clutch wear occurs when setting off. So even towing a heavy trailer with a remaped TD5, you arent putting much more than standard power through the clutch, therefore perhaps the remap has nothing to do with it.

Similarly its never had a time when the clutch has had any real hammer. Trailered hill starts, recovery etc etc...

I have run TD5s for years with similar remaps but not regular towing and they have never shown signs of failure (not upto 50,000 miles anyway).

My initial thought was to simply change the clutch plate, cover and release baring. Then I was told that there is a good chance that (because of the heavy towing) the dual mass flywheel may be well on its way out. I dont want to have to go back in there again in 6 months time, so will want to do everything at once. Problem is the dm flywheels are expensive!

I am at a bit of a loss as to why this one is failing so early and so am considering all options at the moment.

[Blknight.aus]

Im a bit over keen on replacing an machining flywheels
but to do all the work on mine (wheel, plate and pressure plate + the engine mounts) with the next service Im not getting any change out of $2500 (including all the service items)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Im a bit over keen on replacing an machining flywheels
but to do all the work on mine (wheel, plate and pressure plate + the engine mounts) with the next service Im not getting any change out of $2500 (including all the service items)

If I decide to replace the flywheel, clutch, cover, bearing with solid and uprated (rated at taking more torque than ecu is delivering) then Im looking at AU $1800. Lucky I can do the work myself so dont need labour costs as well!

Im just not sure at the moment!! Part of me firmly believes that the DM flywheel is there for a technical reason to gain longevity and reliability rather than for commercial gain or simply to lighten the springs and thus the pedal. The other side of me says that it hasnt lasted long and other people are seeing them fail fairly regualrly (at least here in the UK), typically between 25,000 and 50,000 miles. That would mean that mine's anywhere between half knackered and about sha**ed.

Given they are expensive to replace and I am going to be keeping the vehicle, perhaps I should bite the bullet. Nothing ventured, nothing gained so to speak...

I really need to find someone with a solid one to speak to!!

[discowhite]

my 90's on its 2nd clutch assy in 60 000k's first 1 was sorted under warrenty but the next i did my self. try rover craft for a price, i paid a fair bit less than your price;)

but i do maintain that if another clutch goes in anything less than 50 000 theres a bloody auto going in:twisted:

cheers phil

[Psimpson7]

Thats interesting Phil, Mine has done 98k km now and is on the original clutch. It has done a lot of towing and a lot of off road work. No sign of it going any time soon either.

It did for a period of time judder a bit, but seemed to fix itself.

I fancy fitting a solid one aswell...

Rgds
Pete.

[Blknight.aus]

mine lasted to just shy of 130K before slipping, IF I can just get SWMBO to change the gears with correct rev matching and without riding the clutch more than your average tour de france bike It should make 150K before I desperately have to change it. I priced the solid flywheel and plates at 1900 add that to changing every oil the coolant all the filters and the laccy band and theres not much change from 2.5 (the dual mass saved me $100)

What Im fearing and will be the clincher to me going to the single mass is that its not the clutch thats gone its the dual mass, if thats let go then It'll be a case of change driving techniques and fit the single.

[landy@play]

This time last year I fitted a solid flywheel conversion to my defender. It has made the gearbox rattle when idling, and sometimes shudders on extreem hill starts (could possibly be suspension bushes). The initial cost was slightly higher, but will be offset if I need to replace it again. Unlike the dual mass flywheels they can be faced when changing the clutch.
Due to possible wear in the dual mass flywheel it was recommended to me that it should be changed every time with the rest of the clutch, as they can not be accurately checked for balance and internal spring condition, which may cause failure.
The clutch supplier told me that he generally replaces most dual mass flywheels with solid flywheel conversions in his workshop and hasn't had any major problems.

[td5130]

done 255,000ks and still going

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Funny enough Ive just remembered, I was in the clutch and brake place in Alice Springs last month - Got talking to the chap and he said that he always suggests to customers with TD5's to dump the Dual Mass and replace with a Solid conventional unit.

What would really annoy me is if I just stick a plate and cover in and then in 6 months or so I need to go back in to change the DM (as Im lead to believe is quite a normal sequence of events). Then, all things considered its probably worth biting the bullet and doing the conversion!

I have a chap here in the UK thats supposed to be calling me back who actually has one in his car. Will see what he says and let you all know.

[discowhite]

8months ago when i was chasing a solid one, britpart had them but they had returned their stock to the supplier due to complaints and malfunctions:eek:
thats when i went with a DM one.

cheers phil

[bushrover]

I am about to fit a solid flywheel, the dual mass flywheel has spat.:( Internal springs appear to have collapsed or broken after 106000 k's. I see the dual mas flywheel doing two things- increased mass after the internal dampening reduces vibration in the driveline unlike a dampened clutch plate where the mass after the dampening is minimal and creates subsequent driveline vibration and secondly it is a more cost effective (cheaper) way for manufacturers to reduce vibration due to poor design, not that I have ever seen a poorly designed Land Rover. $1700.00 delivered to my door including heavy duty pressure plate, clutch plate, new flywheel mounting bolts and throwout bearing from CBA in Perth. :BigThumb:

And now I guarantee someone will come up with a cheaper source:mad:

Rick

[jbell110]

CBA = who??

Jeff

[Yorkshire_Jon]

I am about to fit a solid flywheel, the dual mass flywheel has spat.:( Internal springs appear to have collapsed or broken after 106000 k's. I see the dual mas flywheel doing two things- increased mass after the internal dampening reduces vibration in the driveline unlike a dampened clutch plate where the mass after the dampening is minimal and creates subsequent driveline vibration and secondly it is a more cost effective (cheaper) way for manufacturers to reduce vibration due to poor design, not that I have ever seen a poorly designed Land Rover. $1700.00 delivered to my door including heavy duty pressure plate, clutch plate, new flywheel mounting bolts and throwout bearing from CBA in Perth. :BigThumb:

And now I guarantee someone will come up with a cheaper source:mad:

Rick

So long as the quality is there, $1700 sounds about comparable to the best UK converstion option. I wouldnt even consider dropping Britpart bits onto my truck - it needs to be reliable!!

[leeds]

Jon, have a quick chat with Andy or Rob at Four Plus 4 in Leeds and se what there experience has been in the UK market.

Regards

Brendan

[D2Nick]

First post here as a new member can't find a better place to post this.

I have used this site, and others, for research into the good the bad and the ugly, of fitting a solid flywheel and heavy duty clutch to a Discovery TD5.

In short, I am extremely happy with the result.

I bought an Exedy solid flywheel/clutch kit from Direct Clutch in Brisbane.
The Disco is smoother now than when it had the dual mass flywheel in. Maybe the DM was on the way out, after 207000 km.

I was going to post a video of the engine idling with a glass of water sitting on top, but this forum is a bit complicated.
The glass of water is hardly making waves at all.

Nick

[jimr1]

Hi Jon , My td5 is at 269,000 km original clutch , must say It's about ready for replacement , like you I can do It myself . My truck pulls my caravan , has lugged car trailers loaded , done lots of high country driving in low , and is still going . So for me It's a DMF . It my well be I could just change the clutch and pressure plate . I've heard when the DMF let go It can be messy . In saying that I have the complete kit , including DMF and a new spigot bush , It's on my list of things to do !!.. :):) Jim