Assistance/advice on SLR selection.

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

Hey everyone. After many years of not having a decent digital camera, and still managing to get some good pics from my 3.2mp mobile phone camera, ive decided to get a proper digital SLR. I used to play with my dad's 35mm SLR, and loved it.

The only one I know of at the moment, is the Canon eos 400 d. At around $800, its not cheap, but its about the price I will pay, but I being fairly tight fisted, will shop around for months to get a good price.

The reason I have written the Canon, is one of the guys at work has it, and he & I think its great, although I must say I havent played with it too much, but seen many impressive photos this guy has taken.

Its features are about what Im after. I would rather 12mp, over 10.1 for no particular reason, but the ability to print clear A3 is good for me :)

I like the varying shutter exposure too. Up to 30 seconds is fine for me.

Self timer - yes, I want that.

Continuous shooting - yes!! the Canon is 3/sec. That, I would say is a minimum. 5 would be great. The Canon shoots 25 (I think) in a single burst, and keeps ALL of them. My dads camera only keeps the last 3 pics taken in the burst. :confused:


If anyone has suggestions on an SLR that is about the same specs at the Canon, please throw your opinions this way!


Much appreciated.

-Joel-

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

Perhaps I should get the eos 1000d?? It comes with twim lens kit for $900 at a large shop at the moment? Still seems fairly much the same as the 400d, but with lenses :)

[dmdigital]

The Canon EOS 450D is the latest version of the one you are referring to. There is a lower quality build and cheaper priced EOS 1000 but for the difference in price the 450D is the better buy. Nikon has the D60 in that price range. There is also Sony, Olympus and Pentax to consider.

The Nikon would be my pick as I hate the ergonomics of the Canon. That's an individual thing so all I'm really saying s go with what feels the most comfortable. The Canon also must use the flash for all low light focusing and metering (even if it doesn't fire it pulses).

You're best off putting money in to good lenses to start with though some of the kit lenses now are starting to be reasonable and less in to the camera body.

Have you looked at Digital Camera Reviews and News: Digital Photography Review: Forums, Glossary, FAQ (http://www.dpreview.com) for information?

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

Ill go make a coffee and look at that link.

Thanks for some starting info! Its a bit daunting really.

Ill go and have a feel and play with cameras once all the Chritmas/new years madness has gone.

I dont need a full blown pro style camera, as Im not that interested! I just want a really good camera for recreational use.

Ill have a look at the Nikon too.

Cheers!

[dullbird]

you should still get a good A3 out of a 10.1.......

mega pixels aren't everything, its what you do with them that counts......and how often do you think your going to be making A3 prints for it to really matter that much.

I would be inclinding to go to a camera shop and have feel of the others before making your decision on just likeing your mates..
DSLR's are exxy so you want to make the first decision the right one.

and as derek said save up money for a decent lense....I went around the houses before I brought a decent one and really wish I hadn't then I wouldn't of wausted any money

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

how often do you think your going to be making A3 prints for it to really matter that much.

I would be inclinding to go to a camera shop and have feel of the others before making your decision on just likeing your mates..


Its not that I will be making lots of A3 prints. It would be nice to have the choice to do so if I wish.

The reason I said I liked my mates was, it has about all the things in a camera I am looking for. Its in the right price range, and was comfortable to use.

It is only a template, so I can say "this is what I like. What else is there like it for about the same money?"


Anyway, I went and has a look at a few cameras today, whilst my gf is at work. I Found the Nikon D80 was a bit less arkward to hold, but seemed almost too big for my hand over the Canon.

The other cameras I looked at were the Sony Alpha a350, and the Canon 450d.

The Sony has a really cool adjustable lcd screen, which, I imagine, could become quite popular. It pops out, and can be tilted up or down, for low or high shots. The screen itself seemed not bright enough, and I had trouble seeing it in the stores lights. And 2.5 fps seems a bit slow.

The only downfall of the Nikon d80 that I saw was there is no 'live view'. If it had live view, I would be more inclined to consider it.

The 450d's problem, is no Macro setting. You have to get a seperate lense to do that. Its 3.5 fps is pretty sweet too. I love motor racing, mountain biking, and anything that goes fast enough to be a danger to your health, so that speed would be quite nice. I know there are faster fps cameras out there, but they cost a fair bit more.

ISO rating on the Canon is up to 1600, but the other 2 are up to 3200.
All have 1/4000 - 30 sec shutter speeds.

Most other stuff is fairly equal. It is early days in camera hunting yet, but at least Im getting a feel for what is out there, and getting to see and feel the differance in cameras.

-Joel-

[slug_burner]

They say that the Canon 450d and its predecessors were made with a small body to appeal to 50% of the potential market, women. I use mine with a battery case (looks like and old motor drive) that goes under the camera, it gives me a bit bigger surface area to grip onto plus I have yet to run the batteries flat.

I suspect that you maybe better off looking at some of the high end single lense cameras with a good amount of optical zoom. The SLR provides the advantage of been able to offer you the choice of using the best lense for the shot that you are taking and unless you are going to buy a few lenses I think that it is a waste to buy one. The same as I think it is a waste to buy the lenses for the reduced size detector arrays.

[dmdigital]

ikon D80 is now supersede by the D90 so will be old stock. Good camera basically equivalent to somewhere between the EOS 400D & 30D Canons.

The build quality of the D80/D90 is much heavier than the 450D the only comparible Nikon is the D60 in that range.

The reason for no "Live View" on the D80 is its age. The D90 has this but expect to pay $1700+ with a lens kit.

No DSLR is going to have a Macro setting. It's just not an option unless you get a "macro" capable lens, as its a function of the ability of the lens. If you want that kind of functionality stick with something like Canon's G10.

As for megapixels. anything above 10mp is fine the key thing you are actually looking for is sensor size for picture quality. Consider the size of a P&S compact's sensor is often smaller than most people's little finger nail and a DSLR is at least 22 x 15 mm. There are some good articles about this on the web. Have a look at the spec's of the Nikon D2H and then consider there are still top end pro's shooting with this camera and its only 4mp. Megapixels are over rated.

[chunk]

For the money you want to spend the Cannon DSLR is the best option, if you want something better go a Nikon. As some of the others have said you may be better off with a single lens camera which also take excellent photo's.

More megapixels are better but are wasted if you have a crappy lens. I have a 4 megapixel Cannon point and shoot camera with a Carl Zeus lens that takes photo's as good as some 10 meg camera's.

The thing to remember is that digital camera's don't hold there value and the main reason for that is that they are still evolving so your getting new features and more megapixels with each new model which forces the value down on the older models. My 4 meg Cannon cost me $1500 4 or 5 years ago, I would be lucky to get $100 for it now.

So unless you are going to do a lot of phopoghaphy work go the single lens camera with all the features. Another thing to remember is that 95 percent of you photo's will never be printed and less than 1 percent will ever be enlarged.

Good luck
Jeff

[Dinty]

G'day All, Whatever happened to real SLR cameras in 35mm and medium format, love em, yeah I use a digital but in my heart it will never replace the real thing cheers Dennis:angel:

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

G'day All, Whatever happened to real SLR cameras in 35mm and medium format, love em, yeah I use a digital but in my heart it will never replace the real thing cheers Dennis:angel:

Thats what got me interested in photography :) My dad's 1970 something Canon 35mm SLR. Its a bloody great camera, but I gave it back to him a few years back, as Id be mighty upset (as would he) if I damaged it.

[EchiDna]

for what its worth (not much really!) will your mate loan/rent you decent lenses? or is there a decent shop in your area that rents "big glass"? if so, you might take this into consideration if you are non-committal about selecting a system. As for those on off journeys or special events, it is certainly worth considering a rental of a nice lens... even better if you can get em for free :)

[dullbird]

Its not that I will be making lots of A3 prints. It would be nice to have the choice to do so if I wish.
The reason I said I liked my mates was, it has about all the things in a camera I am looking for. Its in the right price range, and was comfortable to use.

It is only a template, so I can say "this is what I like. What else is there like it for about the same money?"




Anyway, I went and has a look at a few cameras today, whilst my gf is at work. I Found the Nikon D80 was a bit less arkward to hold, but seemed almost too big for my hand over the Canon.

The other cameras I looked at were the Sony Alpha a350, and the Canon 450d.

The Sony has a really cool adjustable lcd screen, which, I imagine, could become quite popular. It pops out, and can be tilted up or down, for low or high shots. The screen itself seemed not bright enough, and I had trouble seeing it in the stores lights. And 2.5 fps seems a bit slow.

The only downfall of the Nikon d80 that I saw was there is no 'live view'. If it had live view, I would be more inclined to consider it.

The 450d's problem, is no Macro setting. You have to get a seperate lense to do that. Its 3.5 fps is pretty sweet too. I love motor racing, mountain biking, and anything that goes fast enough to be a danger to your health, so that speed would be quite nice. I know there are faster fps cameras out there, but they cost a fair bit more.

ISO rating on the Canon is up to 1600, but the other 2 are up to 3200.
All have 1/4000 - 30 sec shutter speeds.

Most other stuff is fairly equal. It is early days in camera hunting yet, but at least Im getting a feel for what is out there, and getting to see and feel the differance in cameras.

-Joel-

exactly! you can print A3 from a 10.1 thats what i'm saying dont limit your self becasue you think you can't and can only get a A3 out of a 12mp.

as for the nikon I have the D80....I think its a great camera...if you have trouble holding it does that mean I have man hands and you have girl hands?:D

seriously i think If i had anything small which the D60 nikon is slightly smaller than the 80 I think it will feel light and awkward. The D90 also has what your after including the option to video in Hi Def.....but it is more expensive it has the bigger sensor which will give you the quailty which is what I think your actually after for your big prints not the MP.

but its whats right for you at the end of the day.....like echidna said try hiring, you might think money lost but not as much as if you brought a camera that you were happy with to start and then after a few shots thought you made a mistake

[dullbird]

obviously NM the D90 is better but if your only getting into photography the D80 will erve you well and will cost alot less.....I think its a great camera

[Slunnie]

G'day All, Whatever happened to real SLR cameras in 35mm and medium format, love em, yeah I use a digital but in my heart it will never replace the real thing cheers Dennis:angel:
I guess they became obsolete. :p The real thing is now digital. If you took away digital and replaced it with 35mm, think of all of the things you then couldn't and wouldn't do with it. I for one don't have film in the freezer anymore and I do click off a lot more photographs for memories, records and to share.

[Slunnie]

Hey everyone. After many years of not having a decent digital camera, and still managing to get some good pics from my 3.2mp mobile phone camera, ive decided to get a proper digital SLR. I used to play with my dad's 35mm SLR, and loved it.

The only one I know of at the moment, is the Canon eos 400 d. At around $800, its not cheap, but its about the price I will pay, but I being fairly tight fisted, will shop around for months to get a good price.

The reason I have written the Canon, is one of the guys at work has it, and he & I think its great, although I must say I havent played with it too much, but seen many impressive photos this guy has taken.

Its features are about what Im after. I would rather 12mp, over 10.1 for no particular reason, but the ability to print clear A3 is good for me :)

I like the varying shutter exposure too. Up to 30 seconds is fine for me.

Self timer - yes, I want that.

Continuous shooting - yes!! the Canon is 3/sec. That, I would say is a minimum. 5 would be great. The Canon shoots 25 (I think) in a single burst, and keeps ALL of them. My dads camera only keeps the last 3 pics taken in the burst. :confused:


If anyone has suggestions on an SLR that is about the same specs at the Canon, please throw your opinions this way!


Much appreciated.

-Joel-
Joel, don't get too tied up in outright specs and speed. You'll find that probably down as "low" as 4mp will give you photos that are good enough for A3 printing. The great advantage of having lots of mp is that you can crop until the cows come home, but it uses memory and can lower speeds depending on what you're doing - there is a compromise. This is a 2.6mb picture I took using an EOS350D, 4.15mp???, 2.6mb to give you an idea of how it comes out.
http://www.slunnie.com/coppermine/albums/Misc/IMG_2302.jpg

As for speed, depending on what you want to photograph and the speed of the lenses that you use, that 3fps will be enough. Try counting 3fps against the second hand on a clock and then compare it to 5fps. I hope the 5fps has the memory buffer to deal with that rate too otherwise the sequence will be short lived, something I find to be a problem with using this while a 4WD drives an obstical or similar. 30sec shutter is pretty standard as is timers. You'll probably also take kindly to remote controls and bulb exposures (you click open, and then click closed again with the remote) for extra long exposures.

What I have found though, is that its not so much the body that makes a great photo, but the lenses. If you want quality, thats where you will need to spend. I am a huge fan of Canon and I have spent a lot of time also gathering the fast L series lenses and they really bring out the photos and give you flexibility.

If money is tight, I can recomment some of the Ebay suppliers from HK. I'm not sure how the $ compares these days, but it was definately worthwhile for me. The ones that have 100% records and are large volume traders I have found to be good, and so far customs haven't caused any concerns for me.

[dullbird]

There actually wasn't a great deal of difference in price, but I can't recall now what lenses they were packaged with...no....todays foray was wholly and soley to do with the feel of them :D And the D80 was just about identical to the D90 as far as looks and weight etc

there will be if you shop around;).....

also


If money is tight, I can recomment some of the Ebay suppliers from HK. I'm not sure how the $ compares these days, but it was definately worthwhile for me. The ones that have 100% records and are large volume traders I have found to be good, and so far customs haven't caused any concerns for me.

buyer beware I'm in the market for a speed light and I have brought many things from ebay especially for my camera BUT I have also started finding alot of things in OZ shops cheaper than ebay the speedlight I have looked at is the same price on ebay in HK as it is in the OZ shop only difference to have it posted from HK was an extra 80bux where as the shop in OZ was free shipping