Vote today Melb Herald Sun - banning 4wd from city roads

[cartm58]

Eleni Hale
December 28, 2008 12:00am
FOUR-WHEEL drive vehicles should be banned from city and suburban roads, most motorists say.

Three in five Australians are against 4WDs and SUVs being used for regular driving.

They say they should be forced away from schools, out of town and "off-road where they belong", according to a new survey.

Driving alongside 4WDs causes so much anxiety that Australians have voted them one of the most annoying aspects of road travel, says the McCrindle Research survey, Australians and Driving.

The big vehicles are labelled a danger to pedestrians and other road users, as well as environmentally irresponsible.

Harold Scruby, of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, said yesterday that hundreds of people were hit by 4WDs and SUVs each year because their drivers couldn't see properly behind them or beyond their bonnets.

"There are shocking blind spots, especially (dangerous) with children around schools," he said.

They also block the view of other drivers, according to the RACV.

"Don't get a 4WD if you don't need one," RACV public policy general manager Brian Negus said.

But despite being hated by most drivers, SUVs are growing in popularity, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

More than 44,000 were sold in Victoria up to the end of November, compared with 33,000 over the same period five years ago.

In Toorak village on Friday, one of Melbourne's 4WD hot spots, almost every other vehicle in the shopping centre was a 4WD or SUV.

One particularly big 4WD took up two car spaces, while another was taking up so much road space it was impeding a tram.

Toorak resident Vanessa Griggs said it was outrageous 4WDs were being sold as family cars, considering the fatality rate for pedestrians.

"It's like their family is cared for but everyone else's can go to hell," she said.

However, SUV driver Jamie Nevile, of Toorak, said she struggled to see past trucks and they weren't being banned from the road.

"It's much easier to see ahead and to manoeuvre in traffic," she said.

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

Harold Scruby is a PITA. He s trying to get cyclists banned from the streets. Where else am I going to ride when there are no footpaths, and no cyclelanes where I commute to and from?

[A Commodore cant 4x4]

I voted no btw. Even before I was interested in 4x4's, their presence didnt bother me. Just made for more things to overtake, which was fun :D

[easo]

So what stops toyota bring out a 2WD Crusier? The market is far too big for 4x4's for a total ban.

I've allways thought about starting a driving school for larger cars. Duel controled Defender? :cool:

Cheers Easo

[dmdigital]

I need a 4WD city use is driving the market to make them all nice and rounded and soft and better suited to the suburban life than the bush - queue picture of LC200. So those of us who want a true 4WD that can, without modification, handle the bush have an incredibly limited choice - or we buy a Defender;).

I'm all in favour of banning the 4WD from the cities unless the owner can prove that it will be used off road. It would hopefully improve the market choice and make them less car like.

The YES vote is slightly ahead still and there had been a total of 583 votes which is hardly a representative basis for a statistically valid conclusion (unless you're the media).

I'll still vote NO btw.

[Panda]

Yea, but what a nightmare to prove!

[Sleepy]

Same bloke has been advocating banning bullbars for 20 years.:Thump:

The herald sun winds him up like some clockwork drummer, he spins around making lots of noise then fades away until the next year. :spudnikwowsers:

:soapbox:Obviously the ban 4wd vote will win. IMHO most drivers in Melbourne would like to ban all other road users. Our road network is clogged and run down. Citylink is not even 10 years old and it is still regularly overloaded. Improving public transport, bicycle paths and roads would go a lot further to improve safety.

[easo]

So what happens if your a country person and you only own a 4x4 and need to travel to the city?

Also who decides how a city is determined and where the limits are in that city for 4x4s are?

Easo

[Panda]

Probably something like if you're pulled over driving in the city, checking your licence to see where you're from, & speed limits such as "60" denotes a "city" where 4WDs are not allowed to be owned by city people unless they have a "genuine" use for the?

God only knows! :eek2:

As if the poor coppers wouldn't have enough to worry about!


So what happens if your a country person and you only own a 4x4 and need to travel to the city?

Also who decides how a city is determined and where the limits are in that city for 4x4s are?

Easo

[haydofly]

I have voted a few times already :eek:

[clean32]

just ban them from the school run, that will get rid of most of them

[haydofly]

I just kept clicking the link and voting. It let me about 12 times I think.

[Bigbjorn]

Might as well ban trucks, buses, vans, people carriers, as all these pose visibility problems either for their drivers or people driving other vehicles who cant see over or through them when they are alongside.

[Sleepy]

Whilst you country people are alienating us city folk, I would just like to say.

I own a 1955 Series 1; it probably won't ever be used for what it was built for. It probably wont be used "in the bush" too much - other than a gentle trundle.

I aim to have it road worthy and drive it on the road, in the city and surrounds.

I reckon I am entitled to own it,......... and love it.:p:D


Dont you?

[Psimpson7]

Its total nonsense. This sort of thing pops up in the UK all the time. Think yourself lucky really that its 5-10 yrs behind the crap we had back there.

people letting down tyres, throwing mud over 4wd's in cities, keying them, abusing the drivers etc etc..

It is totally un enforcable really. Especially when you consider cars like the 2wd territory which is exactly the same as the 4wd one to look at.

There are all the crossover type cars then, such as the Audi q7, Volvo xc range, and then what about things like Subaru Impreza's and so on... They are 4wd.

[JohnE]

its a non event,
not even worth talking about,
hundreds of pedestrians hit by 4wds?? Bad visibility, I thought that was commodores and the like,

Now thats balanced one person said so , so it must be true.

Where are the correct stats? or is he just making it up,
an online poll unless it reaches the thousands it not really a correct representation of the views of the masses.

Now let me work this out, cars drive on the road and pedestrians walk on the footpath, so where are the hundreds of pedestrians when they are allegedly getting hit? walking on the footpath?




john

[Reads90]

I reckon I am entitled to own it,......... and love it.:p:D


Dont you?


I agree with you , this sh*t used to pis* me off in the uk.

I work , i pay my tax, i pay my rego , i pay insurance and tax on that too, and i consider my self to a law abling citzen. Therefore i recon i should be able to drive what the hell i want to drive and not get told by some Uni prof or tree hugger that has never made any usefull contribution to the world. Or done a hard days work in their life anyway

rant off

[EchiDna]

I agree with you , this sh*t used to pis* me off in the uk.

I work , i pay my tax, i pay my rego , i pay insurance and tax on that too, and i consider my self to a law abling citzen. Therefore i recon i should be able to drive what the hell i want to drive and not get told by some Uni prof or tree hugger that has never made any usefull contribution to the world. Or done a hard days work in their life anyway

rant off

sorry Reads I can't agree - driving/having a licence is a privilege, not a right... that said, the Herald Sun is hardly doing anything it hasn't done for 30 years - sensationalist journalism to sell it's lowest common denominator paper (sorry Sun readers!).

[Russ]

I've allways thought about starting a driving school for larger cars.


That's how it should be done in the first place.


These apparent 'problems' with 4wds on city roads arn't vehicle faults, they're Driver faults.

People get their licenses in tiny little 2 Door Hatchback 4 Cylinder automatics, then go out and buy a gigantic Hummer or Landcruiser with big shiny rims - and most of them wouldn't even have it in them to drive up a gutter if needed.

Forget this L's, Red P plates, Green P Plates dribble over x-amount of years. It's nonsense & doesn't teach anybody a bloody thing.

An RTA exam & drivers test arn't about driving skills. They're about driver knowledge of road laws.


If someone gets their license in 4 Cylinder Automatic - then that's all they should be allowed to drive. Forever.

If you want to drive/own a 4wd, you need to complete an appropriate 4wd drivers course.

If you want to drive/own a V8, same thing.

... and so on.



When the hell are these politicians & policy makers going to get it?



Common sense can go a long way ... unfortunately, common sense isn't that common!

[Panda]

Granted. Good points! :)


I agree with you , this sh*t used to pis* me off in the uk.

I work , i pay my tax, i pay my rego , i pay insurance and tax on that too, and i consider my self to a law abling citzen. Therefore i recon i should be able to drive what the hell i want to drive and not get told by some Uni prof or tree hugger that has never made any usefull contribution to the world. Or done a hard days work in their life anyway

rant off

[Bushie]

That's how it should be done in the first place.


These apparent 'problems' with 4wds on city roads arn't vehicle faults, they're Driver faults.

People get their licenses in tiny little 2 Door Hatchback 4 Cylinder automatics, then go out and buy a gigantic Hummer or Landcruiser with big shiny rims - and most of them wouldn't even have it in them to drive up a gutter if needed.

Forget this L's, Red P plates, Green P Plates dribble over x-amount of years. It's nonsense & doesn't teach anybody a bloody thing.

An RTA exam & drivers test arn't about driving skills. They're about driver knowledge of road laws.


If someone gets their license in 4 Cylinder Automatic - then that's all they should be allowed to drive. Forever.

If you want to drive/own a 4wd, you need to complete an appropriate 4wd drivers course.

If you want to drive/own a V8, same thing.

... and so on.



When the hell are these politicians & policy makers going to get it?



Common sense can go a long way ... unfortunately, common sense isn't that common!


I partly agree with your sentiments, however
If someone gets their license in 4 Cylinder Automatic - then that's all they should be allowed to drive. Forever.

If you want to drive/own a 4wd, you need to complete an appropriate 4wd drivers course.

If you want to drive/own a V8, same thing. Please tell me you jest, there needs to be a better breakdown of license classes, when I got my license if you wanted to drive something over 2 ton it was a truck now you can drive anything up to 4.5tonne on a car license then you go to a light rigid. There are now many more license classes than there were a few years ago.

car
light rigid
medium rigid
heavy rigid
heavy combination
multi combuination.

It seems what is being complained about is there isn't enough breakdown in the car class. Maybe there should be

light car <1000kg
medium car 1001kg - 2000kg
Heavy car > 2000kg

So Nissan, Toyota and D3 owners get to pay more for their licenses. Maybe part time 4WD gets a discount because they are not really 4WDs when they are being driven around on bitumen, but us defender drivers get slugged because we are in 4WD - and we need to do a 4WD course as well.

But wait a TDV6 D3 and a V8 D3 would need different classes of license, unless of course one of them was an auto.............................................


This is doing my head in :D:D:D:D:D:D:D



Martyn

[George130]

I will stick to my usual argument. Ban 4wd from the city then ban all large vehicvles from the city and ban all small vehicles from out of the city.
Shove that one in your pipe scruby.

[Panda]

I partly agree with your sentiments, however Please tell me you jest, there needs to be a better breakdown of license classes, when I got my license if you wanted to drive something over 2 ton it was a truck now you can drive anything up to 4.5tonne on a car license then you go to a light rigid. There are now many more license classes than there were a few years ago.

car
light rigid
medium rigid
heavy rigid
heavy combination
multi combuination.

It seems what is being complained about is there isn't enough breakdown in the car class. Maybe there should be

light car <1000kg
medium car 1001kg - 2000kg
Heavy car > 2000kg

So Nissan, Toyota and D3 owners get to pay more for their licenses. Maybe part time 4WD gets a discount because they are not really 4WDs when they are being driven around on bitumen, but us defender drivers get slugged because we are in 4WD - and we need to do a 4WD course as well.

But wait a TDV6 D3 and a V8 D3 would need different classes of license, unless of course one of them was an auto.............................................


This is doing my head in :D:D:D:D:D:D:D



Martyn

Yea, it's doing my bloody head in and all! :eek2: Especially in combo with the cricket! :D

[Panda]

Go Edd! :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:


I will stick to my usual argument. Ban 4wd from the city then ban all large vehicvles from the city and ban all small vehicles from out of the city.
Shove that one in your pipe scruby.

[waynep]

You must be special... :D

If using Internet Explorer go to Tools > Delete Browsing History. ( you can leave it on the vote webpage )

Hit "Delete all" and you can vote again as many times as you do the above.

Which makes the whole thing a bit of a farce really.

You'll have to log back in here as your login cookie will have been erased.

[Ralph1Malph]

We need someone with plenty of time and a bit of panache to start or resurrect or get involved in a '4wd lobby group'. How would the Scrubster react if he was the target of negative publicity, a counter argument or even (not by me) a little old fashioned vilification.
4x4 owners need to push back a little.
Maybe those in rural areas could canvas and involve their local member, I know in CQLD, most of them drive toyos anyway!.

My 10 cents.

Ralph

[gruntfuttock]

IF you banned 4WDs from cities, I would want ALL 4WDs/AWD regardless of size banned, that is to say, if you have a toyota corolla with AWD then it should be banned. We cannot have discrimination can we??

After all, who is going to decide what is "Safe" , are you going to ban delivery vans because they are large and have blind spots? Or may cars because they open their doors in front of cyclists. So to make the city centre safe, we should bann all motor vehicles, and cyclists.:p:D

[Sleepy]

If using Internet Explorer go to Tools > Delete Browsing History. ( you can leave it on the vote webpage )

Hit "Delete all" and you can vote again as many times as you do the above.


:D:D:D;)

[waynep]

Would have been easier if you'd put the link in :D

Poll Popup | Herald Sun (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/poll/1,,661-5037571,00.html)

The "yes" vote is slightly ahead


not any more it's not ;):D

what do we want it to be ?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

its a non event,
not even worth talking about,
hundreds of pedestrians hit by 4wds?? Bad visibility, I thought that was commodores and the like, ...<snip> That is the whole issue, H Scruby and his cronies don't want the truth to get in the way of their hysteria. The evidence is not there, firstly because 4X4s are not isolated in the data collected by most state authorities and secondly because the proportion of 4X4's in the population is under represented in the data (4X4 have a longer average life than do cars, yet the statistics are based on annual new registrations and not on vehicles in the register), therefore the few reports that do isolate 4X4 from cars for analysis get results based upon a presumption that there are less 4X4 in the population than there actually are and this artificially increases the statistics.

[loanrangie]

What should be banned is women driving oversized 4wd's that they cant drive correctly that only get used to collect kids from school and go to safeway in.
Last week a woman driving a territory reversing out stopped 3m from the car behind and then did a 5 point turn- fer christs sake, i could have driven my disco thru the gap in 1/10 th the time it took her to get out of her parking spot.

[Psimpson7]

What should be banned is women driving oversized 4wd's that they cant drive correctly that only get used to collect kids from school and go to safeway in.
Last week a woman driving a territory reversing out stopped 3m from the car behind and then did a 5 point turn- fer christs sake, i could have driven my disco thru the gap in 1/10 th the time it took her to get out of her parking spot.

So based on one woman not being able to drive very well, all women should be banned from driving 4wd's...? (or do you mean people in general who cant drive well?)

Surely her being cautious is better than her bumping both cars on the way out....

The issue is people in general not being able to drive. I doubt that they would be able to drive a Commodore or Falcon any better

People have every right to drive what ever they want / can afford to buy and run.

This whole argument is nonsense. It wont happen, and that IMO is a very good thing.

Free world. thankfully!

[Slunnie]

I'm all in favour of banning the 4WD from the cities unless the owner can prove that it will be used off road.
This make assumptions that the only benefit of 4WD is to use it offroad where there is a range of legitimate reasons to by a 4WD that dont include offroading.

It also means that we have a choice taken from us based on other people... just not liking them. I don't like Fords, Smart Cars, Ssangyongs, Jeeps and Mitsubishi 380's. I think they should all be banned before 4WD's. Actually I don't like smokes either - at least there is a legitimte reason for their ban.

In fact, I think that everybody should drive Commodores only when in Urban areas as they provide excellent 360 degree vision and will protect those to dumb to buy a car that will protect them in the event of an accident. When in the country there should be the option to drive a 4WD.... with the only option being the Subaru Outback as it uses little fuel, handles well, has increased clearance, is safe and will go anywhere that anybody will need to go in that situation. I think that all red signs and lights should be changed to blue also.... because red makes me feel nervous that I've done something wrong. All vehicles should be speed limited to 50km/h also as it is a safe speed - there is no need to go faster, and it removes the dangerous need and ability to overtake.... our grandkiddies will never believe that people were allowed to overtake and on the wrong side of the road!!!! Total control and regulation of the roads will lead to a perfect world.

WRT the poll, I think that people that want 4WD's banned need to HTFU and sell their Micra's for something safer and more capable.

[abaddonxi]

I've got an idea.

Make everyone who owns a 4wd in the city also own a motorbike.

That should even out the odds.

Fair's fair.:D

Simon

[p38arover]

I've got three 4WDs: P38A, IIA, and Forester

and

three motorbikes: Yamaha XJR1300, Suzuki DL650, and Yamaha RZ500

I'm right.

[loanrangie]

So based on one woman not being able to drive very well, all women should be banned from driving 4wd's...? (or do you mean people in general who cant drive well?)

Surely her being cautious is better than her bumping both cars on the way out....

The issue is people in general not being able to drive. I doubt that they would be able to drive a Commodore or Falcon any better

People have every right to drive what ever they want / can afford to buy and run.

This whole argument is nonsense. It wont happen, and that IMO is a very good thing.

Free world. thankfully!

That was just an example, i dont know why men buy a large 4wd like a patrol/landlooser for the main task of shopping and collecting kids from school, when i drop my daughter off at kinder there are about 20 parking spaces taken up by 12 very badly parked 4wd's of varying size taking up all 20 spots ! Cautious is 1 thing but that was ridiculous, she didnt even wind her window down and stick her head out to see how much room she had. My SIL is about the only woman i have seen that can properly handle a large and lifted 4wd but then she can drive merc/hino/isuzu trucks and she is quite petite.

[Slunnie]

With the exception of the old Acco that I learnt on, all of the modern trucks that I have driven - despite their weight - are quite light on the controls and easy to drive. The hardest part physically is getting in and out.

[Col.Coleman]

I've got three 4WDs: P38A, IIA, and Forester

and

three motorbikes: Yamaha XJR1300, Suzuki DL650, and Yamaha RZ500

I'm right.

oh no. Need more bikes to even up the equation

'67 Bultaco Sherpa T; '81 Yamaha RD350 LC; '86 Moto Guzzi V65 Sp

I think I made a few of these little cars nervous yesterday. 3t of 130 + 1.6t of Field Kitchen in the wet on muds. They think the gap you leave in front of you in the wet is there for them to jump into and wonder why you get SOOOO close to their little ****box when they jam on the brakes:mad: Of course it is all my fault, shouldn't have left a braking area big enough for a gnat.

I miss my 4wd Canter. I could put the bullbar and the front of the cab over the top of their boot and nearly touch the back window when they stop. There is a unimog tipper around the road for sale. Might have to go look at it:D

CC

[vnx205]

I see the "No" vote is now 57%.

I guess my 10 votes helped swing things in the right direction. :p

After all my votes were 0.5% of the total.

[easo]

In fact, I think that everybody should drive Commodores only when in Urban areas as they provide excellent 360 degree vision

Maybe everyone should own a series LR with no roof or doors :eek:. Perfect 360 vision.;)

Easo

[Sleepy]

Eleni Hale
December 28, 2008 12:00am
FOUR-WHEEL drive vehicles should be banned from city and suburban roads, most motorists say.
...
Harold Scruby, of the Pedestrian Council of Australia, said yesterday that hundreds of people were hit by 4WDs and SUVs each year because their drivers couldn't see properly behind them or beyond their bonnets.
.

Well, not only does Harold Scruby hate 4wds (http://www.nosuv.org/melbournetimes.html) but it looks like he's scared of pommies too.

Threats to Brits (http://www.geocities.com/endeavour_uksa/threats.html)

And want's the union jack off our flag

Ausflag Directors (http://www.ausflag.com.au/directors.html)

And no bull bars on our 4wds

Law may force 4WD owners to fit new bullbars - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/30/1027926887305.html)

Not sure he'd like my UK built Land Rover with a bull bar .......(MMMMmmm...Must get myself a great big aussie flag painted on the bonnet!:twisted:)

Oh,.......... and keep off the phone

AMTA (http://www.amta.org.au/default.asp?Page=1385&Format=print)

and ditch that ipod

MP3 driving ban sought - National News - National - General - Albany Weekender (http://albany.yourguide.com.au/news/national/national/general/mp3-driving-ban-sought/806702.aspx)

and don't think riding a pushbike or motorcycle will make him happy

Call to ban bikes from pathway - Local News - News - General - The Warrnambool Standard (http://www.standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/call-to-ban-bikes-from-pathway/1377049.aspx)

Speed Cameras - Speed Camera News & Information Police Speed Camera Locations (http://www.policespeedcameras.info/news_qld.html)








I feel sorry for his wife:angel:

[stevo68]

Simple....4wds will never be banned,

Regards

Stevo

[101 Ron]

The Pedestrian Council does not have true democratic elections of all its top reprosentives ......ie Scruby cannot be voted out and I think because of this it can not be a true legal body to propose any thing to govenment and most likely to be illegal.
The reason for this set up of the Pedestrian Council is so no persons with balanced views can join the council and steer its views or change leadership.
It shxxts me to tears that these people can take cheap shots and some times get the ear of government and be taken seriously.

[BMKal]

Just saw an aticle on this on ACA (the late night repeat).

Some of the opinions presented were absolutely pathetic - on both sides of the argument.

Of course they had Scruby rabbiting on like an idiot. Maybe we should put forward a referendum to ban Scruby.

[rick130]

IF you banned 4WDs from cities, I would want ALL 4WDs/AWD regardless of size banned, that is to say, if you have a toyota corolla with AWD then it should be banned. We cannot have discrimination can we??

After all, who is going to decide what is "Safe" , are you going to ban delivery vans because they are large and have blind spots? Or may cars because they open their doors in front of cyclists. So to make the city centre safe, we should bann all motor vehicles, and cyclists.:p:D

SWMBO was viewing what laughingly passes for current affairs on 9 last night and Mr S was sprouting that 4WD's should be banned from outside schools, etc and they were showing footage of soft roaders like CRV's :lol2:
Idiots.
Also, on the basis that 4WD's are big and unsafe outside a school, does that mean buses should be banned from there too ? :D

[rick130]

Just saw an aticle on this on ACA (the late night repeat).

Some of the opinions presented were absolutely pathetic - on both sides of the argument.

Of course they had Scruby rabbiting on like an idiot. Maybe we should put forward a referendum to ban Scruby.

And they had him rabbiting on and shaking his head around a Disco II, which of course has a smaller footprint than a Commodore, but never, ever let the facts get in the way of your argument. :D

[rick130]

What about putting around a theory that those that are intimidated and oppose 4WD's and their drivers are actually closet bigots and racists and possibly misogynists too, who do so as they are able to display their bigotry in a socially acceptable manner. ;)

Anyone with the right qualifications wish to apply for a study grant to 'prove' this :twisted:

[gruntfuttock]

That was exactly my point

SWMBO was viewing what laughingly passes for current affairs on 9 last night and Mr S was sprouting that 4WD's should be banned from outside schools, etc and they were showing footage of soft roaders like CRV's :lol2:
Idiots.
Also, on the basis that 4WD's are big and unsafe outside a school, does that mean buses should be banned from there too ? :D

[CraigE]

Did you notice that the Herald Sun rep on Sunrise did not quote the poll figures because the majority had voted no.
Self opinionated dipsticks that lead a sheltered city life.:mad:

[jonesy61]

LOL, I saw the pole and thought, Slow News Today! Next it is speeding trucks, truckies on speed or something similar.

I am teaching my son to drive in the Disco! As for visibility? I bet that so:angrylock:so hasn't even set foot inside one. The vis is far better in the Disco than my old Falcon and way better than my Voyager.

Flying, shooting, trucking, and now 4wdriving...I feel like an endangered species.

[DeeJay]

There was a short film on at the flicks about 20 years ago called "Its a dogs world" I laughed so much at Harold Scruby's frustrations over a dog called "fugly" that I went and watched it again with my dad.
Basically. I think this film sent Scruby on his Crusade against 4wd's.
It was all about dogs in general and had a couple of eccentrics as its basis. One was a woman who was doing everything under the sun to stop people letting thier dogs wee on her nature strip and the other was of course Scruby who was a local councillor who had a "fued" with a F250 driver who owned a german shorthaired pointer called fugly. This owner loved Fugly totally. To see that dog gleefully rush down to the surf was really uplifting to the soul. The owner did everything in his power to restrain Fugly but that dog was Houdini and always escaped to freedom. The film showed Scruby's dislike of dogs & followed his efforts of making Fugly an example. Of course this alienated him from most of the Aussies around Bondi who harboured Fugly from the dog catchers, then let him go when the coast was clear.
It had cost the owner over $3 grand in fines ( a lot back then) and he swore the dog was worth it.
The bloody mindedness of Scruby was unbelievable but of course could never win.
I bet that F250 had a bullbar :D

[gruntfuttock]

Flying, shooting, trucking, and now 4wdriving...I feel like an endangered species.

Save the rain forest
Save the Wales
next will be................








































Save the 4Wdriver:D:p

[Slunnie]

I can see the next report based on this:


A staggering 37% of motorist want to see 4WD's banned from city areas and the vast majority would also like to see them banned from the roads. It has been a monumental reaction to............ yadda yadda yadda.

[911Racer]

I can see the next report based on this:


A staggering 37% of motorist want to see 4WD's banned from city areas and the vast majority would also like to see them banned from the roads. It has been a monumental reaction to............ yadda yadda yadda.

It may be a while since I went to school, but I always assumed that 50.1% was the minimum required for a majority, not 37%. And what is staggering about 37% ?

Gutter journalism at it's best.

[Ferret]

Sruby is a little hypocritical in his views re 4WDs. It is well known the man owns and drives a 4WD SUV himself, or at least did in recent times.

Who is Scruby? @ ExplorOz (http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/20471/Who_is_Scruby.aspx)

Inspector Gadget - drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=9601&vf=1)

[BMKal]

I'm all in favour of banning the 4WD from the cities unless the owner can prove that it will be used off road. It would hopefully improve the market choice and make them less car like.

Sorry - but I can't agree with this. Why should it be a requirement to prove that it will be used off road.

There are many people who have 4WD's and have legitimate uses for them, who may never intend taking them off road. Many people use them to tow caravans / campers on their anual holiday or trip around the country, yet the roads they might travel on can usually also be traversed in conventional vehicles. Others pull heavy horse floats - rarely offroad. While some might argue that a Falcon wagon would do the same job - I would still argue that a 4WD is a safer bet - and anyway, who wants a Falcon wagon.

A lot of people buy 4WD's simply for the room and load carrying capacity, and then others, as I suspect on here, because it is a rare or vintage vehicle or special in some other way - or simply just because it is a vehicle that they would like to own.

There are many people who buy a 4WD only as a recreational play thing so that they can go and find some track (or maybe where they THINK there should be a track), and go 4WD'ing there just for fun or to prove that they can. While hopefully most people who have a 4WD for this purpose are responsible and do not go out intentionally damaging the countryside, there are others (many of whom can be found on a couple of other internet forums known to many on here) who are simply irresponsible idiots. I believe that I could present a stronger argument for these pillocks to be banned from owning a 4WD.

Mine only goes off road occasionally, and then usually on beaches / sand dunes and coastal tracks. I would object strongly to being told that I could only own this if I could prove it was going to be used off road. In my opinion, placing conditions like this on ownership is little different to what Scruby is trying to do.

[zulu Delta 534]

Will I still be allowed to drive Daisy in Melbourne if the free wheel hubs aren't engaged?
Glen