Replacement cylinder head

[Disco2tow]

I was just wondering if anyone has had to pay a mechanic to replace their cracked cylinder heads? I had to do my Land rover discovery and along with replacing water pump muffler hoses leads plugs etc it was over $7000 is that reasonable or did I get over charged?
He has the price for the cylinder heads alone (no labor) as $1760?
Also does any one know how to prevent this happening again the mechanic reckons it was do to overheating which it has been taken to mechanics about for years but no one has ever fixed it?
:( P.S I realize I should have just given up and bought another vehicle but I was convinced fixing it would be better.

[PAT303]

$7000 would have bought a new engine so yeh I think they saw you coming.I would find out why it overheated,when was the last time the rad was rodded?.I would like to now what they charge for labor,taking the heads off is a finicky but straight forward job.I would like to see what the hours for labor was. Pat

[George130]

Guess this is a TD5.
I spent $4500 with me doing the pull down and reassembly work. so yes I could see $7000 with a replacement head. $1760 for a TD5 head is a good price for a second hand head. I was quoted $3500 for a new one.

[Ace]

given you say heads (plural) i am assuming you mean a V8? If so yeah you got taken for a ride, you could rebuild a whole motor for less than that including remove and refit.

I wouldnt be driving it anywhere until you sort out the cooling issue. Main things to check are the radiator, the thermostat and the water pump. Does the system loose coolant over time and need topping up every now and then? If it does lose coolant you need to find out where its going and this will most likely be the cause of the overheating issues. Matt

[Disco2tow]

Thanks for the info I wish I had found this site before :o
He has $2800 down as labor the rest is parts. Normally I get my own parts as I know mechanics overstate what the parts cost. A few parts I have gotten for less than half of what he charged and they were genuine parts too. I blame myself though I should have researched the cost of buying another vehicle before being rushed into fixing it.
Yes it is a V8 3.9L
He has replaced the hoses water pump & thermostat & removed & cleaned the radiator.
It is my mother's car and she has been taking it to mechanics for ages and they tell her everything is normal and that it runs really well! A different mechanic fixed it; we told the mechanic that said it ran well and he just reckons the other mechanic doesn't know anything. But I also had it checked at the local toyota service center and they confirmed the cracked head. At the moment I get the feeling all of them are lousy.:mad:

She had been filling up the tank every week and it would constantly "overflow" from the little black tank. She was told just to keep topping it up as this was normal.

I want him to do a long distance test drive before I take it back as it is still sitting at half way at startup which is what it always did. I figure if it starting at half way it is going to go over that as it is driven and it would end up with the same problem. But that is just a guess?
I drive a Hilux and at startup it is just above cold it gradually moves but never goes over the half way point even at 100km/h with the a/c on full.

The a/c in the land rover has never worked; they think it might be the compressor and want to charge me to replace it but they aren't sure if it is faulty I'm reluctant to do this as I could be paying $500+ for a part I might not need. But could that be causing any problems?

I'm not a car person I don't understand them so it is easy for me to get ripped off. I get told all the time it is more expensive because it is a rover?
Thanks for all your help sorry if I sound like an idiot

[PAT303]

Don't worry mate we don't think your an idiot,you have ask for advice and come to the right place to get it.It annoys me about the price of parts because it's an LR,thats BS,the parts are very well priced.I would say you need the rad rodded and thermostat replaced,it cost me $250 all up a week ago to get mine done and that will fix the overtemp,no motor likes running hot regardless of make.Sorry I can't be of more help but put a post up if you have a problem no matter how small,people on this forum will save you alot of time and money. Pat

[PAT303]

I should have read your post better,my disco heats up quite fast,when you say it stays at half way it should be slightly under half.Don't buy parts of the guy again,I get mine from British 4wd,they advertise on this site,very good on advise and very quick on postage and good on price.Find a new mechanic,go to the West oz forum on this site and ask the guys there were to take it. Pat

[Disco2tow]

When you say the rad rodded is that the same as removed & cleaned or like new coils? He has put a new thermostat in.
British 4wd the one in planet st? I normally go to them which is how I know I can get the parts cheaper. But going through the invoice I would have only saved about $350 on parts.
He is giving me a guarantee on the work so anything goes wrong he will fix it. But I want to take it somewhere else to fix the A/C and get everything checked to see if he missed anything.
I can’t really do anything about the fact I’ve spent too much now but I don’t want something simple to be missed and end up with more problems. Toyota quoted me $12000 for the same job so at least I didn’t go to them!
He has never overcharged me before he normally is very cheap. I take my Hilux to him but I always buy my own parts and I get quotes from other people before I get one from him.

In future I defiantly be checking on this forum to see how much I should be paying.

[Blknight.aus]

if youve got the black tank, suck out just enough coolant (syphon it with a skinny bit of hose/pipe)

look inside the tank you will see a small tower shaped like a cross.

the top of that tower is the coolant level. If when cold you can see the top of that tower add coolant. replace the coolant now but dont put the cap on.

put the transfer case in nuetral, start the engine and place a large towel across the front of the radiator to slow the airflow, turn the aircon on flat out and make sure the heater settings are set to on.

look in the coolant tank. if the coolant level is dropping add coolant if its bubbling wait a minute or 2 and see if its still bubbles. IF its still bubbling after a minute or 2 you might have problems.

if its not bubbling run the engine at about 1500 RPM after turning the heater off and wait for it to warm up once its starting to warm out let it drop to idle and eyeball the content of the tank again, if its not bubbling and isnt low (it may well be higher by now but thats ok) loosely put the cap back on, remove the towel close the bonnet and take it for a very short drive just untill it approaches normal operating temperature.

leave the engine running, open the bonnet remove the cap (carefully) and eyeball the fluid if its bubbling youve got problems, if its all gone youve got problems, if its sitting there steaming, put the cap back on and stop worrying about the heads.


If you overfill the expansion tank the coolant has nowhere to go so it pushes out the cap which has a pressure relief valve built into it. do it too often and the cap gets busted and wont allow the cooling system to pressurise.

If the cap is stuffed if your driving around in peak hour traffic with the aircon on full tilt they will over heat quite nicely and give all kinds of expensive sounding symptoms that are easily overcome with a $30ish cap and a cooling system flush...

given the likely condition of the cooling system by this stage IF you dont have the bubbles in the tank (or at the radiator filler plug) get the radiator rodded/replaced the engine flushed and be done with it.

there should be someone near you whose on the site who wont mind showing you where to find the various bits and pieces IVe mentioned.

if you have the clear coolant tank (ok white semi see throught type) the same process applies but I cant right now remember where the level indicator is other than on some of them it has a small vertical arrow point up to a level line with something like "cold" Or "level" written near it.

[Grumbles]

Disco2tow Q - before I take it back as it is still sitting at half way at startup which is what it always did. I figure if it starting at half way it is going to go over that as it is driven and it would end up with the same problem. But that is just a guess?-Q

It should never do this. I’ve seen this temperature gauge issue of instantly going to half way on start up before but in a 3.9 V8 Classic RR. Assuming that the gauge itself is ok and the sender unit is ok then the answer lies deep in the dash. There is an electronic module/relay or “black box” for want of a better term. I just can’t remember the details of what it is. It needs attention/replacement by an auto electrician. In a RR Classic it is a dash out job so it is labour intensive, read expensive. I can only assume that a Disco with a 3.9 V8 will have the same ancillary components as a RR Classic.

If I get a chance I’ll ask the owner of the vehicle which had this problem and see if I can track down some details.
Cheers.

[Bush65]

When you say the rad rodded is that the same as removed & cleaned or like new coils? He has put a new thermostat in.
...

Land Rover radiators are cross flow - the tubes run horizontal between the tanks on either side.

"Normal" radiators have vertical tubes between a top and bottom tank.

Gravity causes sediment in the water to drop-out of suspension. In a normal radiator the sediment falls into the bottom tank, which is easy to flush out.

Gravity works against cross flow radiators and the sediment drops out of suspension inside the tubes. As this happens the velocity of water flowing in the tube slows, which promotes sediment drop-out until the tube is blocked.

Flushing does not work because there is no water flow in the blocked tubes. The only way to clean the tubes is to remove the tanks from the core (they are soldered on) and physically push the sediment out of the tubes with a rod. Once the tubes have been rodded, they can be chemically cleaned to remove any remaining build-up. Then the tanks are soldered back on and pressure tested.

The above is a job for a radiator specialist (Natrad and the like) who do this sort of thing routinely.

I see the water pump and thermostat have been replaced. The other thing that is often overlooked is the viscous coupling for the fan - they become fault over time and it is surprising how often they are the cause of overheating (even when they look/feel ok).

[ladas]

Can't say much about the engine, but with the air con, if they say "they think it's the compressor" then they haven't a clue.

Any air con technician would be able to say one way or another if a compressor is faulty or not simply by looking at the gauges - and some touching of the pipes to assess temperatures at various point.

For the air con go to a specialist, I can recommend one or two in Perth if you want. Just PM me and I will send you their details

[PAT303]

I work with A/C alot and I am amazed by how many major parts are replaced on road vehicles when site vehicles that work far harder just need a clean out and re-gas.The compressors very rarely need replacing. Pat

[PhilipA]

I work with A/C alot and I am amazed by how many major parts are replaced on road vehicles when site vehicles that work far harder just need a clean out and re-gas.The compressors very rarely need replacing. Pat
Pat, the last one I had done was on a Mazda 121. The aircon guy explained/claimed that when the shaft seal went on the small rotaries, it usually grooved the shaft, and that they often had combacks from repeat leaks within a short time.
To avoid reworks and of course unpaid labour on their part, they recommended a new compressor.
This is probably a different scanario to big units or even the old Kirby reciprocators.
Regard sPhilip A

[mike 90 RR]

The above is a job for a radiator specialist (Natrad and the like) who do this sort of thing routinely.

So on that note .... I would recommend

Perth Radiator Center ... Beechboro rd .... in Bayswater

Old company // Been there for years
They rod out all my radiators when I buy a car ... and I get them to rebuild (recore) new radiator's

I shop no where else

:)

[GuyG]

Did they do a complete rebuild or just those items already mentioned, if they did in fact do the complete rebuild then that sort of money is probably quite close. I had the motor in my rangie done last year and if I/we didn't do a lot of the work ourselves then it would have probably been that amount also or very close to it.

[loanrangie]

For 7K, when i lifted the bonnet i would want to be looking at an LS1 or i'd be taking it back. 2nd hand heads would only be a couple of hundred after a freshen up so $2800 labour is overkill for what is essentially a 1 day job.

[PAT303]

Second that. Pat

[GuyG]

For 7K, when i lifted the bonnet i would want to be looking at an LS1 or i'd be taking it back. 2nd hand heads would only be a couple of hundred after a freshen up so $2800 labour is overkill for what is essentially a 1 day job.

So has anyone actually had the job completed for the 7K or is this just an estimate of what it would cost - not doing it yourself but drive in drive out?

[PAT303]

A mate of mine had his done in newcastle because he never changed the coolant.It was an '85 county and both heads were done in his driveway,the bloke that done it was a mobile mechanic and it was just under 3K,that was a couple of years ago and it has run trouble free since. Pat

[loanrangie]

So has anyone actually had the job completed for the 7K or is this just an estimate of what it would cost - not doing it yourself but drive in drive out?

Dont know but 7K is way over the top, if 4.6's were still available you could have one for less than 7K. I've replaced V8 headgaskets in my front yard in an hour (nothing else replaced) without removing the inlet manifold completely.

[Disco2tow]

that would be great I really want the a/c fixed I need air cond :(


Can't say much about the engine, but with the air con, if they say "they think it's the compressor" then they haven't a clue.

Any air con technician would be able to say one way or another if a compressor is faulty or not simply by looking at the gauges - and some touching of the pipes to assess temperatures at various point.

For the air con go to a specialist, I can recommend one or two in Perth if you want. Just PM me and I will send you their details

[Disco2tow]

I paid $7000


So has anyone actually had the job completed for the 7K or is this just an estimate of what it would cost - not doing it yourself but drive in drive out?

[Disco2tow]

I realize now I paid more than I should have but it seems to be better. It isn't sitting on half at startup anymore so when I took it back he must have fixed something else. I haven't driven it much yet as I have no a/c I don't really want to drive it on these 30+ days.
Thanks for all the advice in future I will always ask BEFORE I get major work done.
I know nothing about cars other than they cost a lot of $$$ but it is good to know I can always ask people you know and they will help me out.
How much should rodding cost same guy said originally $110 to do my hilux and now says it will cost $350 because it is diesel? It doesn't overheat but considering how much the Discovery cost I don't want to end up with the same problem in the

I paid $7000

[Blknight.aus]

diesel or petrol makes no difference. a radiator is a radiator as far as that goes.

what does make a difference is the construction of the radiator...

is it a plastic tanked affair?
is it ally?
is it copper?
soldered or tab sealed?
with or without inbuilt oil coolers?


the last radiator I got rodded cost me $90 but it was a simple soldered tank affair and I pulled it out and hand delivered it.

[Disco2tow]

This why I get ripped off so easily I have no idea what it is ? Is there a way I can work what it is?
I don't think it has oil coolers it has a plastic guard over the top but I think it might be ally.
$90 sound much more like what it should be. I wouldn't think removing it would be that much more. I only paid $120 for a new belt at Toyota (parts & labor) and they had to remove the same stuff they have to remove to do rodding. So I don't get why I'm being quoted $350?

I'm wondering if I should do it at all as it doesn't overheat? Even at high speed hot temps and with the a/c on full. Or is it something I should do?


diesel or petrol makes no difference. a radiator is a radiator as far as that goes.

what does make a difference is the construction of the radiator...

is it a plastic tanked affair?
is it ally?
is it copper?
soldered or tab sealed?
with or without inbuilt oil coolers?


the last radiator I got rodded cost me $90 but it was a simple soldered tank affair and I pulled it out and hand delivered it.

[Grumndriva]

Just for comparison, I replaced the two head gaskets (similar labour costs to replacing heads) in May 2007. While the heads were off, we also replaced the other assorted gaskets, plugs, leads, coil packs, ground the heads, and serviced the injectors. The whole bill, including parts, came to $3,314.85. About $1,200 of that was for the injector service, plugs, leads and coil packs. So about $2,100 for the head gaskets, cleaning etc and labour which would relate directly to your job. I am sorry but I have no idea what heads themselves should cost. If you know that, you could judge fairly easily if you were overcharged or not.

Sadly I dropped two liners 18 months later, and had to replace the engine. I got a brand new 4.6 RR HSE engine for a bit over $6,000, but the total bill was around $13,000 by the time it was installed with new hoses, radiator thoroughly inspected and tested (as a result of pressurisation of the cooling system), and new plugs again - (different plug in the 4.6). Also had the injectors redone following the coolant in the combustion chambers.

My advice on the LR temp guage is to disregard it and buy a Scan Gauge 2. It costs $180 and you simply plug it into the OBDII port. It gives a trip computer and separate displays of any four inputs from the OBDII port. If you set one display to coolant temperature, it will tell you the truth degree by degree. The LR gauge on the other hand, slowly rises from cold until about 60 degrees when it centres, and then stays there to well over 100 degrees. Not a lot of use when the engine is working hard.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Terry

[PAT303]

A complete cooling service including rodding costs $250 locally,Just a flush and service $110 or $700 for a recore and service.The recore was on my disco and it was a three row core.All prices were drive in drive out and I would get it done,you have spent far to much money to have it all come undone through overheating,the original problem I think. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

easy....

to sort out where the tanks are pop the bonnet and look at the radiator.

where the hoses go on will form part of the tank now look at the radiator the main cores of the radiator (which the small metal v's are attached to) will run either left to right or up and down)

this is what a side tanked radiator looks like
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1259.jpg

it also has some kind of secondary cooler built into it (the 2 little nipples on the left hand tank) and appears to be a soldered type radiator. ITs also probably not an ally tank because the cores and coolers are painted black.

this is an ally radiator
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1260.jpg

its side tanked and is a tab sealed press fit tank type as the tanks are plastic and its very hard to solder plastic to ally.

flip either of them round 90 degrees and you have a top/bottom tank radiator.