Hoon caught doing 170 in 100 zone.

[drivesafe]

The news from Victoria today shows how their new tougher hoon laws are catching the offenders.

A hoon was caught doing 170 in 100 zone. The “HOON” was 78 years old.

Me thinks his Zimmer Frame must have been caught on the accelerator peddle.

[Shonky]

Good thing he isn't a P plater - it would be all over the news otherwise... :(

[Sprint]

from whats been said on other forums, the guy is supposedly a quite capable driver, i know its still illegal, but the question begs to be asked...... how dangerous was it?

[Xavie]

from whats been said on other forums, the guy is supposedly a quite capable driver, i know its still illegal, but the question begs to be asked...... how dangerous was it?

hahahahahahaha

[Sprint]

hahahahahahaha

exactly which part do you find amusing?

[cartm58]

According to the report l read he was actually following another driver doing similar speed driving a Nissan Skyline he was in a Nissan Pulsar.

His excuse to the cops he thought himself to be a capable driver and was used to driving racing cars.

Section of road he was on was one with plenty of bends so seeing a on coming car might have been difficult for him at that speed

Hoon Laws only good if enforced and more importantly if cars impounded and repeat offenders cars crushed in my opinion.

Trouble is in WA they have special licenses where delicensed drivers who can make out a hardship case to a Magistrate can get special license issued to them, even where they have been disqualified for drink driving , driving without license, driving causing death etc.

L have to laugh when social do gooders say things like ban smacking children by parents and reduce child death rates by 30%, no parent driven to distraction by action of child is going to think about it before over reacting and causing serious injury and death, same with hoon drivers being caught and having license and car removed and crushed is only sure way to be deterrent, stops hoon and stops mates lending them their cars as they know if caught will be crushed or impounded.

[Sprint]

same with hoon drivers being caught and having license and car removed and crushed is only sure way to be deterrent, stops hoon and stops mates lending them their cars as they know if caught will be crushed or impounded.

having thier licences removed wont stop them, imply look at how many unlicenced drivers are caught each year

as for risking having thier cars (which no doubt, some people owe some serious $$$ on), how long untill a driver decides to run and kills an innocent bystander because of this government stupidity?

i have yet to hear of a sensible, well thought out response from the government, ive only heard brainless kneejerk responses

btw, how many AULRO members with tight LSD's, lockers, even crappy tyres have had tyres chirp/squeal when doing a U-turn? plenty i'd bet, and now consider that in some states, tyres chirping/squealing when doing a u-turn is regarded as a "hooning" offence...... would you really want to see your landrover crushed under hoon laws???

as i said..... BRAINLESS kneejerk reactions...... plus the idiots who support them......

[Fusion]

from whats been said on other forums, the guy is supposedly a quite capable driver, i know its still illegal, but the question begs to be asked...... how dangerous was it?

Still bloody dangerous :mad: . It was not race conditions in a controlled environment . It was normal roads with everyday road cars on it and maybe even kids or adults on push bikes ...... VERY stupid :mad:

[hoadie72]

Good thing he isn't a P plater - it would be all over the news otherwise... :(
It IS all over the news..

[drivesafe]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a fine, yet drink driving accounts for 25% of all accidents.

[Nathan]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a find, yet drink driving accounts for 25% or all accidents.

Less $$$ to be made out of drink driving than speeding... Only a relative few drink drive, practically everybody speeds at some point in their driving lives!

[81stubee]

i have yet to hear of a sensible, well thought out response from the government, ive only heard brainless kneejerk responses

btw, how many AULRO members with tight LSD's, lockers, even crappy tyres have had tyres chirp/squeal when doing a U-turn? plenty i'd bet, and now consider that in some states, tyres chirping/squealing when doing a u-turn is regarded as a "hooning" offence...... would you really want to see your landrover crushed under hoon laws???

as i said..... BRAINLESS kneejerk reactions...... plus the idiots who support them......

Well said, there are appropriate times for a bit of fun, but not when other people are around. When I was on my P's we used to got out and have some fun. But it was never (apart from one stupid night) near or endangering other people. We used to go out the back of the Dandy's and find some dirt roads. I really layed into 2 mates once when they started bragging about doing 160ish down Gallaghers road in glen waverley :angrylock:, which is a 50km/h suburban street.

By the sounds of the evidence such as bends and houses this 78yo should have known better. And even at only 27 I definitely think twice about excessive speed, as I remember the feeling in my EL Falcon when the suspension couldn't keep up at 160kmh, never going there again.

Now, is Australia the only place where this happens? Why can't we look at the rest of the world. Go and have a look at the road rules for Germany and Autobahns. Which are not unlimited as some might think, initiatives such as Tailgate Cameras, Safety Vests, Driver Training.

Stu

P.S. What is the advisory limit on an Autobarn for a car??

[300+]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a find, yet drink driving accounts for 25% or all accidents.

I had relatives from Canada visit for Xmas. They couldn't believe the number of speed traps we say. Typically we either passed a static camera, mobile camera car, laser gun, or unmarked car stopping someone else every 20 minutes on a number of different day trips out of Brisbane.

This means that there were 3 speed traps between Brisbane and the turn off for the glasshouse mountains. I had the cruise control on to be safe, but do you think I spent more time watching the speedo or the road, especially on downhill sections?

It was really oppressive. In all my time in Aus I've never had a single traffic offence (or any others...). But they certainly know how to create a good level of hostility between the law abiding public and the boys in blue.

Cheers, Steve

[hodgo]

Just caught the tail end on the five O'Clock news re this story, from what they said he is a collector of military vehicle and they scanned across his yard showing some WW2 armoured vehicles .
Did any body else see it?

Cliff

[Sprint]

It was normal roads with everyday road cars on it and maybe even kids or adults on push bikes ...... VERY stupid :mad:

who says its just a stock, poverty pack pulsar? from what im hearing it was a rather modified Pulsar GTI-R

normal roads huh? what about targa tasmania? ordinary public roads, yes, closed for the event, but thats all.


The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a find, yet drink driving accounts for 25% or all accidents.

simple, speeding has a high wow factor, especially when the P plate factor is brought in, which the politicians love because it brings in votes and is a LOT easier and cheaper to enforce than drink driving..... means more revenue raised!

[harry]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a find, yet drink driving accounts for 25% or all accidents.


money, money, money, ain't it funny
in a police state

[hoadie72]

normal roads huh? what about targa tasmania? ordinary public roads, yes, closed for the event, but thats all.

That's a pretty poor comparison. The roads for Targa are closed and traffic can only go in one direction. This road is a relatively narrow public road with oncoming traffic.

In Targa, if you lose control of the vehicle, you'll only take out yourself. On this road, you could potentially wipe out a family. Maybe yours.

[Fusion]

who says its just a stock, poverty pack pulsar? from what im hearing it was a rather modified Pulsar GTI-R

normal roads huh? what about targa tasmania? ordinary public roads, yes, closed for the event, but thats all.


Are you serious ! Modified or stock who cares it was dangerous . The old fart is 78 years old . the reaction time of a dead elephant FFS!

And as for Targa Tas . Controlled environment with no on coming traffic and a lot of cars sliding off the road going home on the back of a truck !

Big deal if grandpa lightspeed had raced a car ...... i bet he didn't have the skill of late Peter Brock and he come unstuck ...... didn't he ;)

[amtravic1]

I have absolutely no problem with speed in the appropriate place. Before I drove Rangies and could almost see the fuel guage going down at anything over 100 kph I would never drive at the speed limit.
Unfortunately the person in the news story seems to have been speeding on a road with houses (built up area) if what was shown on the TV is correct so it seems to have been a stupid place to speed and he deserves to have been caught.
Ian

[hoadie72]

I have absolutely no problem with speed in the appropriate place. Before I drove Rangies and could almost see the fuel guage going down at anything over 100 kph I would never drive at the speed limit.
Unfortunately the person in the news story seems to have been speeding on a road with houses (built up area) if what was shown on the TV is correct so it seems to have been a stupid place to speed and he deserves to have been caught.
Ian
Agreed - the only appropriate place to "speed" is on the race track. Of course then it's not speeding ...

[drivesafe]

Unfortunately the person in the news story seems to have been speeding on a road with houses (built up area) if what was shown on the TV is correct so it seems to have been a stupid place to speed and he deserves to have been caught.
Ian

:BigThumb:

[CaverD3]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a find, yet drink driving accounts for 25% or all accidents.

They also can get a criminal conviction and they almost always lose their licence for a time.

[Hymie]

I know the guy involved.
His nickname is Crow.
He was a Vehicle Recovery Instructor in the Army when I did my basic ECN226 course.
I remember later on doing convoy work and he would "disappear" for hours at a time and turn up later with an old Bren Carrier, Stuart tank or such on the Tilt bed trailer.
These of course went to his place for the museum.
I had the honour of skull dragging a Diamond Reo Wrecker out of his museum that still belonged to the Army, must have been about 1995-96?
Anyhow, I live in Warragul and Brandy Creek Road is definitely NOT the place to fang it, highly experienced ex race driver or not.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

from whats been said on other forums, the guy is supposedly a quite capable driver, i know its still illegal, but the question begs to be asked...... how dangerous was it?Still bloody dangerous :mad: . It was not race conditions in a controlled environment . It was normal roads with everyday road cars on it and maybe even kids or adults on push bikes ...... VERY stupid :mad: Can't agree with you more Fusion. Unlike a race track where all the cars are going the same direction and the drivers have an advanced level of competence. The other cars on public roads are going every direction, stopping or even turning, pedestrians and animals can cross the road anywhere and not all the drivers are competent.

170 anywhere in a 100 zone is dangerous particularly in an old car or any car without certified roll-over protection and full 4 or 5 point harness.

Diana

[Slunnie]

The news from Victoria today shows how their new tougher hoon laws are catching the offenders.

A hoon was caught doing 170 in 100 zone. The “HOON” was 78 years old.

Me thinks his Zimmer Frame must have been caught on the accelerator peddle.
Thats the problem with old people these days. They think that because they've been around since Noah was a lad and they're as old as the hills that they know everything about everything yet are too blind to even realise they cant even see the speedo let along what they're just about to smash into, and because they have some type of justification in their heads for the stupid :censored: that they do or say that it makes it all ok. You notice its always them that "blame the dog" too. :rolleyes: They're all living in the past and need to step into the real world of 60 hour weeks and the expectations of todays society.

She is old enough to have known better. :soapbox::soapbox::soapbox:




:D:p

[Slunnie]

BTW, WRT the race track, quite seriously don't believe that it is safe, that people have skills or any level of competence, that there is a level of predicability etc. Its really not the case and where I learnt despite there being a lot of tell signs to an upcoming action, you cant predict everybody around you.

[DirtyDawg]

from whats been said on other forums, the guy is supposedly a quite capable driver, i know its still illegal, but the question begs to be asked...... how dangerous was it?


Reflexes must be real quick at 78...so how dangerous would you reckon it is?
Old bugger probably thought the speedo was on 70km/h.:mad:

[B92 8NW]

It's justifiable. When you're 78, you have to be "very quick" to make it to the toilet, err, on time:wasntme::D.

[mudmouse]

The stats for 'drink driving' against 'speed' collisions are a flawed comparison. Most 'collisions' for drink driving are low speed, whereas if you have a lose at high speed then somones going to get dead or seriously injured - which is why it's gained recent high media value.

Anyway, I don't give a monkey's how talented he (or anyone) is or thinks he is. If i was travelling on that road, or a loved one was, i wouldn't want a ****** like him doing anything near 170..... probably why speed limits are set in the first place.

As for penalties, they've been in place for ever and a day, it's the unwillingness of Magistrates to sentence people to those penalties.

'Police State'....! For christ's sake, wake up to yourself. Go to any country you like and see how Australia compares. This place is a cakewalk.

:)

[McDisco]

having thier licences removed wont stop them, imply look at how many unlicenced drivers are caught each year

as for risking having thier cars (which no doubt, some people owe some serious $$$ on), how long untill a driver decides to run and kills an innocent bystander because of this government stupidity?

i have yet to hear of a sensible, well thought out response from the government, ive only heard brainless kneejerk responses

btw, how many AULRO members with tight LSD's, lockers, even crappy tyres have had tyres chirp/squeal when doing a U-turn? plenty i'd bet, and now consider that in some states, tyres chirping/squealing when doing a u-turn is regarded as a "hooning" offence...... would you really want to see your landrover crushed under hoon laws???

as i said..... BRAINLESS kneejerk reactions...... plus the idiots who support them......

Sounds like your sympathetic to the hoons. What would you propose? do nothing?...just let them speed and be idiots?

[leeds]

Driving at 170 kph in a 100 kph zone is dangerous driving and he should be charged with dangerous driving. He must have been fully aware that he was exceeding the maximum speed limit in Australia which is 120/130 kph(?)

In the UK the punishment for doing 100mph (160 kph) is normally a minimum of a 1 year ban. At his age that would normally mean taking a new driving test prior to getting his licence back.

I do not care if he is the best driver in the world driving the best maintained car in the world, the kid on pushbike, milk delivery man, mum pushing pram across road would not expect an idiot to be coming down the road at almost twice the legal speed limit.

Regards

Brendan

[PhilipA]

It was a nice metallic red Gti-R Pulsar.
Just consider he must be an OK driver to have made it to 78, presuming he has always driven fast.
I would love to Vmax my M3 but not game.
The problem with youngies is they just think they have the experience , oldies actually have it.
Regards Philip A

[911Racer]

Agreed, there is no place for this sort of excessive speed on the road. I get my speed fix on race tracks in a road registered car. Join a car club that is formed for this sort of thing and you will have access as well, to a safe controlled, no speed limit envioronment with emergeny medical help on location and no inocent mums, kids or old folk acting as mobile chicanes.

Safe for all and inexpensive.

(PM me if any one in SE qld wants the name of a friendly club to join that has 13 or 14 of these days a year)

[CaverD3]

Nice to see that so many have never broke the law in their lives and always drive within the speed limits. :angel:

[911Racer]

Nice to see that so many have never broke the law in their lives and always drive within the speed limits. :angel:

I am sure there is a bit of hypocrisy around but you have to admit 70k over is a lot different to 10 or twenty.
Having personally been taken out "back in the day on a motorycle" by a hoon excessivley speeding through a red light tends to change your perspective a little.

[Sprint]

Sounds like your sympathetic to the hoons. What would you propose? do nothing?...just let them speed and be idiots?
how about we give them legal venues to compete at, wether it be drags, burnouts, circuit racing, etc, where they can go and play up all they want?

wait..... such venues already exist.....

BUT (isnt there ALLWAYS a but)

1: such venues arent allways local, the nearest dragstrip to where i am is over 350km away..... nearest venue i know of for hillclimbs/short circuit sprints is 700km away.....
2: in more built up areas, organised dragracing events are so heavily policed its not funny, and god help you if you're not driving a camry when you leave a dragstrip, the cops WILL strip your car to defect it off the road, if they cant find something, they'll make it up..... nobody wants to put up with that bull****, so they avoid it...... works well for keeping people away!
3: ANY organised gathering of modified car enthusiasts attracts cops like crazy, just look how many pigs get ordered to shepparton when the springnats are on, same for every road in canberra is virtually checkpointed by police when the summernats is on.

what car enthusiast is going to attend any competitve event or show if they are going to be persecuted? much better odds when it comes to getting together with the gang in an industrial area or anywhere where the cops have a slight chance at being around? better than going to something where you KNOW the police are going to be, and where you KNOW you're going to be targetted, regardless of wether youve done anything or not

[Fusion]

Nice to see that so many have never broke the law in their lives and always drive within the speed limits. :angel:

Never said that i had always been a good boy . Have owned a few cars that do over the 200kph mark . But i was on my own way out in the countryside where i could see for miles . If i ever seen anyone coming i would slow right down . I have been booked 3 times for speeding . 1st : 63 in a 60 zone. 2nd : 85 in a 80 zone. and 3rd was 94 in a 80 zone . The last one was so high because i started to get on the gas a little early to the 100kph sign. But i have never done stupid speeds in a built up area or with other traffic or people around .

[Sprint]

Are you serious ! Modified or stock who cares it was dangerous . The old fart is 78 years old . the reaction time of a dead elephant FFS!

World War II flying ace survives mid-air collision over Sydney | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24822236-2702,00.html?from=public_rss)

still wanna knock the "old farts"?

[Psimpson7]

Driving at 170 kph in a 100 kph zone is dangerous driving and he should be charged with dangerous driving.

Nonsense! an empty motorway in would generally have a 100-110 kph limit, and driving at 160kph isnt necessarily dangerous. (I believe in this case it may have been a more built up area which makes it more risky however)

Its all down to cirumstances.

For example, doing the speed limit can be dangerous in certain conditions. heavy traffic, poor visibilty, bad weather, poorly maintained vehicle, etc etc, but 160kph can be perfectley safe if a decent driver in sensible conditions, such as an empty motorway.

I mean for heavens sake 160kph is only 100mph.

Rgds
Pete.

[Psimpson7]

through a red light .

Surely thats the main issue........

[Fusion]

World War II flying ace survives mid-air collision over Sydney | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24822236-2702,00.html?from=public_rss)

still wanna knock the "old farts"?

Mate i have only just started on the old farts. and as for that article BIG DEAL!!! . A plane is not a car . Would love to see this bloke bring a pulsar to a safe stop after colliding with another car.

Face it this bloke is a moron and should hand his ticket in !

[isuzutoo-eh]

I'm 24 and my mates aren't always law abiding drivers. I get on their case and tell them when they feel the need to gun it, its not the skill of the driver involved, its the unpredictability of anyone or anything else on the road.

Throw in manufacturing defects or age related wear (car and road surface, not the driver) that can abruptly alter circumstances and somewhere the luck runs out.

Not that i've ever pipped the speed limit :angel:

Mark

[Debacle]

Nonsense! an empty motorway in would generally have a 100-110 kph limit, and driving at 160kph isnt necessarily dangerous. (I believe in this case it may have been a more built up area which makes it more risky however)

Its all down to cirumstances.

For example, doing the speed limit can be dangerous in certain conditions. heavy traffic, poor visibilty, bad weather, poorly maintained vehicle, etc etc, but 160kph can be perfectley safe if a decent driver in sensible conditions, such as an empty motorway.

I mean for heavens sake 160kph is only 100mph.

Rgds
Pete.

If you want to drive at these speeds can you please do it on the race track and not endanger the lives of myself or any of my loved ones thanks.

Hopefully you will grow up before you kill anyone.

[Psimpson7]

Where did I say I drove at above the speed limit...

I suggest that you learn to read.

And for your info, I do hold an international Race licence. Thanks.

[Fusion]

Nonsense! an empty motorway in would generally have a 100-110 kph limit, and driving at 160kph isnt necessarily dangerous. (I believe in this case it may have been a more built up area which makes it more risky however)

Its all down to cirumstances.

For example, doing the speed limit can be dangerous in certain conditions. heavy traffic, poor visibilty, bad weather, poorly maintained vehicle, etc etc, but 160kph can be perfectley safe if a decent driver in sensible conditions, such as an empty motorway.

I mean for heavens sake 160kph is only 100mph.

Rgds
Pete.

Bloody Poms ............ :whistling::whistling::whistling: ......... Jokes mate Jokes :D;):p:angel:.

[Psimpson7]

Lol....:)

Guess this is going to be one of those topics that no one is going to agree on!!...

[Debacle]

Where did I say I drove at above the speed limit...

I suggest that you learn to read.

And for your info, I do hold an international Race licence. Thanks.

Well, you are supportive of people driving at 160 kph on roads that are rated at 100 kph, so i would assume that you do the same.

Why dont you ???

[Disco2tow]

The neighbors’ Commodore Ute got confiscated the other day he was doing a burnout & speeding in a residential street three houses from a primary school; police caught him he also had been drinking.

Saw him driving another Ute the next day they didn't take his license just the Ute. They should take both. His "friends" were cheering him on they should get charged as well.
He said he lives for "danger" but everyone else on the road would really just like to live. If you want to drive fast or put your life in danger go be a race car driver or how about volunteering for the frontline of the army? (Then again he has trouble following road rules probably not a good idea to give him a machine gun).
As someone who drives late nights on dark quite country roads aren't there enough things out there to worry about without hoons endangering your life? Public roads aren’t amusement parks I just want to get where I’m going in one piece. They can find danger somewhere they aren’t putting the innocent unsuspecting public in danger.
By the way these tough boys who live for danger don't seem to be so brave around my little quarter horse being around her was a little too dangerous for them.:twisted:

[911Racer]

Where did I say I drove at above the speed limit...

I suggest that you learn to read.

And for your info, I do hold an international Race licence. Thanks.

An "international race license" Licenses you to drive on a race track where you can do whatever speed is "appropriate". It does not give you the right to do any speed you feel like on a public road, just a a gun license does not give you the right to shoot tin cans in you front yard because you "think" it is safe.

Bottom line, on the road, the variables at play are not just your ability, they also include the actions of pedestrians, the pot hole that was not on the road last week, the neigbours dog that just ran out in front of you etc etc and this is largley an issue because a public road is not in the sense of the word a controlled envioronment. A race track is to a much greater degree controlled as it removes a lot of these variable.

Don't get me wrong, I am no saint and I agree that a good many speed limits are too low, but it is a fact of life and largly because of the idiots who are in fact unsafe at any speed.

[Psimpson7]

Well, you are supportive of people driving at 160 kph on roads that are rated at 100 kph, so i would assume that you do the same.

Why dont you ???

Didnt say that atall.... I just stated that driving above the posted speed limit is not necessarily dangerous.....

160... I drive a diesel defender!!! :o

Rgds
Pete.

[Psimpson7]

An "international race license" Licenses you to drive on a race track where you can do whatever speed is "appropriate". It does not give you the right to do any speed you feel like on a public road, just a a gun license does not give you the right to shoot tin cans in you front yard because you "think" it is safe.

Bottom line, on the road, the variables at play are not just your ability, they also include the actions of pedestrians, the pot hole that was not on the road last week, the neigbours dog that just ran out in front of you etc etc and this is largley an issue because a public road is not in the sense of the word a controlled envioronment. A race track is to a much greater degree controlled as it removes a lot of these variable.

Don't get me wrong, I am no saint and I agree that a good many speed limits are too low, but it is a fact of life and largly because of the idiots who are in fact unsafe at any speed.

I agree totally, but by the same token you cant say that driving above the speed limit is dangerous all the time... an empty motorway at night on a dry evening for example....

I almost managed to avoid this thread as I knew it would go downhill!! :)

[911Racer]

Didnt say that atall.... I just stated that driving above the posted speed limit is not necessarily dangerous.....

160... I drive a diesel defender!!! :o

Rgds
Pete.

And for the record, i don't disagree with you. i am saying that the vast majority have no idea and the rules are set to the lowest common denominator because as far as common sense go's it is apparent more and more to me that too many just don't have enough.

[Psimpson7]

totally agree... to add to this, Australia has (well Qld at least) the worst driving standards of any country I have ever been too!

[911Racer]

totally agree... to add to this, Australia has (well Qld at least) the worst driving standards of any country I have ever been too!And the gold coast is the worst place to be a motorist in QLD

[Psimpson7]

You would seem to be correct!!:)

[Fusion]

I'll throw a spanner in the works . I have ridden a Gsxr 1000 on an open road and have had it wound out to 290kph in a 100kph zone . OH NO I'M A BAD BOY !

[Psimpson7]

You're a bad man Mick!:p

[Debacle]

Didnt say that atall.... I just stated that driving above the posted speed limit is not necessarily dangerous.....

160... I drive a diesel defender!!! :o

Rgds
Pete.

Sorry if that sounded a bit personal but the fact is that driving above the speed limit for some drivers and some cars is dangerous and the cops cant go around filtering out who can and who cant speed. I spend all day on the roads and think that the current speed limits are quite ok for everyone to get around safely.
Just remember that travelling at 120kph in a 100kph zone is an extra 20% above the speed limit and so therefore would take you an extra 20% of time to stop in an emergency, that could be the difference between life and death.

[hoadie72]

I'll throw a spanner in the works . I have ridden a Gsxr 1000 on an open road and have had it wound out to 290kph in a 100kph zone . OH NO I'M A BAD BOY !
Did it make you feel more of a man? ;)

[Psimpson7]

Sorry if that sounded a bit personal but the fact is that driving above the speed limit for some drivers and some cars is dangerous and the cops cant go around filtering out who can and who cant speed. I spend all day on the roads and think that the current speed limits are quite ok for everyone to get around safely.
Just remember that travelling at 120kph in a 100kph zone is an extra 20% above the speed limit and so therefore would take you an extra 20% of time to stop in an emergency, that could be the difference between life and death.

No worries.

Rgds
Pete

[Sleepy]

:soapbox:

170kmh is too fast on a public road.


No excuses.
No "what ifs".
No "age differences".
No "reaction times".
No "it's ok on an open road"
No " it's a GTISXRXUi -1 (Limtied) Sports model".
No "I know what I'm doing".
No "I'm having some fun."

It's just to damn fast and you will kill someone - probably yourself.

[Fusion]

Did it make you feel more of a man? ;)

what the hell LOL !!!! I done it because i love speed not to make myself feel like a man . The guide posts on the side of the road looked like a picket fence :eek:;) have only done that the once . Still yet to find anything as fun as a sprintcar sideways at a 110 mph :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:

[Slunnie]

Sorry if that sounded a bit personal but the fact is that driving above the speed limit for some drivers and some cars is dangerous and the cops cant go around filtering out who can and who cant speed. I spend all day on the roads and think that the current speed limits are quite ok for everyone to get around safely.
Just remember that travelling at 120kph in a 100kph zone is an extra 20% above the speed limit and so therefore would take you an extra 20% of time to stop in an emergency, that could be the difference between life and death.
Your physics is wrong, but by the same token does that mean that we should all be walking to be safe?

Driving at 40kmh is more dangerous, and again at 60, likewise 70, 80, 90, 100 and 110 but there is no point in have a 40km/h speed limit on an open freeway because it will take longer to stop at 60km/h. I think that there needs to be some type of consideration to the actual environment and appropriate speed limits set rather than blanket decisions - even if speed limits are variable.

NT had open speed limits in certain areas so that the drivers could make decisions on what is appropriate for them and even when they relented to pressure to enforce a speed limit they only dropped it to 130km/h. At that speed my Discovery felt fine and I didn't feel like there was any more danger than at 100km/h which is what I typically cruise at around home (NSW). Pre 130km/h limits I sat on 160km/h for a brief period and it was fast but fine, the sad thing is that there are many sections of road in NSW that are as good as those sections of road in the NT that had open limits and now 130km/h, but the NSW roads are rated to 100 or 110km/h.

None of this is to condone speeding - something that only series drivers never do. :p

[Fusion]

:soapbox:

170kmh is too fast on a public road.


No excuses.
No "what ifs".
No "age differences".
No "reaction times".
No "it's ok on an open road"
No " it's a GTISXRXUi -1 (Limtied) Sports model".
No "I know what I'm doing".
No "I'm having some fun."

It's just to damn fast and you will kill someone - probably yourself.

i had one of them GTISXRXUi's . Went like the clappers too . i have a pic of it ......

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Slunnie]

i had one of them GTISXRXUi's . Went like the clappers too . i have a pic of it ......

http://www.abc.net.au/queensland/stories/Wiggles_in_m850804.jpg
I wonder if those hubcaps are from Trival Pursuit - Kids edition. :D

[Sleepy]

i had one of them GTISXRXUi's . Went like the clappers too . i have a pic of it ......



:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Hang on that's left hand drive. Is that the NAS version?

[B92 8NW]

Just remember that travelling at 120kph in a 100kph zone is an extra 20% above the speed limit and so therefore would take you an extra 20% of time to stop in an emergency, that could be the difference between life and death.

You'd travel another seven metres in the second between identifying the need to brake, before planting the foot on the brake, doing 120 instead of 100. You'd then need another 25.61 metres before coming to a complete stop. The stopping distance is increased by 33%.

[djam1]

I drove in the Northern Territory for 25 years with no speed limits working for vairious comanies we regularly travelled between 190 and 215 km/h
The NT Govt introduced speed limits a couple of years ago and the road toll went up 40%.
I am not an advocate of irresponsible driving or speeding but mentioning speeds over 100 km/h in some states is like molesting children or speaking against global warming.
Speeding is not appropriate but travelling at high speeds does not kill people like the pundits would have us believe

[Fusion]

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Hang on that's left hand drive. Is that the NAS version?

thats a pic from when i first bought it. 4 very dodgy blokes they were :angel: . had it converted to right hand drive once delivered :D;).

[Sleepy]

thats a pic from when i first bought it. 4 very dodgy blokes they were :angel: . had it converted to right hand drive once delivered :D;).


Mick, I heard they wrote a song about Elmo

"Toot Toot Chug-a-lug Big Red Car...":p




Ok back to the hoons:mad:

[Debacle]

thats a pic from when i first bought it. 4 very dodgy blokes they were :angel: . had it converted to right hand drive once delivered :D;).

Why did you let Jeff drive, you know he always falls asleep at the wheel.

Doesnt speed though.

[Fusion]

Why did you let Jeff drive, you know he always falls asleep at the wheel.

Doesnt speed though.

it's wasn't to bad with Jeff driving . We had the cruise control on :eek::D:D:D:angel:.

[Sprint]

The NT Govt introduced speed limits a couple of years ago and the road toll went up 40%.
am i the only one who finds that tidbit of information almost as satisfying as sex?

[JohnR]

Wow :o What a thread!

I too hold a National Race Licence and that does not mean I speed everywhere. But with twenty years of Circuit Racing, Motorkahana's, Hill climbs, Sprints etc.. It does teach me how to read a road, a car, the conditions and make a few "judgement" calls on how fast I can go with what level of relative safety for myself, other people on the road and any passengers (if I have any). I do agree it can not give me any insite to a freek ocurance, like a dog or a kid running out onto the road.

I am a VERY firm believer that young drivers should be given offensive yes offensive driving courses and track time should be served as part of a punishment package when they offend like our friend in the begining of this thread did.

I was speaking to Dick Johnson & Peter Brock once and they both agreed that the best way to reduce you people getting killed on our roads is to give them the training.

I do speed but noting like our subject did, I believe that going at super high speeds in a straight line is not that much of a challenge and dangerous in the wrong place. I do go very fast around corners and accepting the inherant risks involved in that. I do however go very slow in the rain, as anyone that has either raced or spent their lives driving will know just how little traction you actually have in the wet.

I very much pitty the cops they have a very difficult job but I do also believe they cater to the lowest common denominator and treat everyone like criminals when you commit a simple traffic offence. If they were really interested in reducing road tolls, I believe drunk and drug drivers need to get more serious suspensions. Speeding fines could carry higher points but why is there such a high $ figure attached?? The driving tests should be way more complicated and not as terifying. If they taught you how to drive on a skid pan or gravel road we might have some greater skills out there. Why not have every two or five years a driver refresher course with up dates and greater skills to be taught just like industry does for dangerous occupations. I know it's difficult to imagine but what if the cops had the ability to use discrection when they pulled you over? i.e. They could talk to you like they cared for your life and give you some honest advice and if they felt you had taken it on board let you off with a warning that was actually recorded and therefore if they pulled you up again you couldn't just act all inocent and get off.

This is a serious subject and one that raises all sorts of emotions in people. The bottom liine is there are poeple with different skill levels out there, there are cars with different capabilities out there. I trully believe it a personal thing, driving and that's why we all love it so. You will always have youthfull foolishness but if we can harness some of that we mich just keep some of them alive a bit longer. :D

Sorry about the rave :blush:

Cheers,

[Debacle]

am i the only one who finds that tidbit of information almost as satisfying as sex?

Best you take a serious look at your sex life maybe ??

[dullbird]

yeh nothing like taking a maths book to the shower with you :lol2:

[81stubee]

In light of the evidence in the previous post's such as the area in which this occurred, I am incredibly dissapointed that this 78YO could be so STUPID, if he was going down the eastern freeway with no-one around I may be looking at it differently.

We are getting off topic now, but :soapbox: it really gets my dander up when people issue broad statements that speed and speed alone is the biggest Killer. There are so many other factors to be taken into consideration. Saying that he would of stopped 33% quicker if he had been going slower yada yada is all well and good on a straight road, but in reality, what was the cause of the crash. Was it the pot-hole that wasn't there last week, the bend in the road, the poor tyres on the car, the bad brakes, or the speed. If you take any ONE factor out of the equation the crash may not have happened. Hey if he had been going 0km/h he wouldn't of crashed at all. Oh and why am I allowed to do 65km/h through a 40km/h school zone and keep my license, but if I do 130km/h down the Hume Hwy (110 zone) I will have my car impounded, isn't that the wrong way round :bangin::bangin:

The germans realised a long time ago that speed can be used in a safe and appropriate manner to get somewhere quickly and safely. So they upgraded there road network increased there driver training and enforced some appropriate safety measures such as:
- Autobahn's have an advisory 130km/h limit
- Extra Wide Lanes
- Slow vehicles must keep left without exception
- Trucks limited to 80km/h and left lane only
- Tailgate camera's (why can't we do this here)

Not to mention
- All vehicles must carry safety vests for there occupants
- All vehicles must carry a Fire Extinguisher and First Aid Kit
- In Bumper to Bumper traffic stick to the left of the lane, to allow emergency vehicle access
- If you run out of fuel they will throw the book at you as in there eyes it was avoidable

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, and were discussing the psycology behind driving.

What would happen if you removed speedo's? Would you slow down or speed up :unsure:

Stu

[Slunnie]

yeh nothing like taking a maths book to the shower with you :lol2:
Hmmmmm, Fibonacci sequence. :cool:

[JohnR]

You'd travel another seven metres in the second between identifying the need to brake, before planting the foot on the brake, doing 120 instead of 100. You'd then need another 25.61 metres before coming to a complete stop. The stopping distance is increased by 33%.

This is assuming it takes you a second to get you foot on the brake :eek: I'd be getting my reflexes tested if this was the case and if it isn't then the statistics are all wrong again! :(

hmmmm,

[Slunnie]

What would happen if you removed speedo's? Would you slow down or speed up :unsure:

Stu
People would start to think when they were driving and have an awareness of what was going on around them. Perhaps they would even start to read the road and learn to make decisions rather than hitting the cruise, pumping the stereo and switching off until they arrive at their destination.... usually.

[JohnR]

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, and were discussing the psycology behind driving.

What would happen if you removed speedo's? Would you slow down or speed up :unsure:

Stu

That is a really good question :o I like it a lot, I am going to ask a lot of people that and I run a speedo shop ;)

I think I would drive much they way I do at the moment, fast around corners but steady in a straight line :D

[81stubee]

People would start to think when they were driving and have an awareness of what was going on around them. Perhaps they would even start to read the road and learn to make decisions rather than hitting the cruise, pumping the stereo and switching off until they arrive at their destination.... usually.

Exactly!!! :BigThumb:

It wouldn't be that simple but it put into perspective where some of the problem may lie.

Stu

[Debacle]

In light of the evidence in the previous post's such as the area in which this occurred, I am incredibly dissapointed that this 78YO could be so STUPID, if he was going down the eastern freeway with no-one around I may be looking at it differently.

We are getting off topic now, but :soapbox: it really gets my dander up when people issue broad statements that speed and speed alone is the biggest Killer. There are so many other factors to be taken into consideration. Saying that he would of stopped 33% quicker if he had been going slower yada yada is all well and good on a straight road, but in reality, what was the cause of the crash. Was it the pot-hole that wasn't there last week, the bend in the road, the poor tyres on the car, the bad brakes, or the speed. If you take any ONE factor out of the equation the crash may not have happened. Hey if he had been going 0km/h he wouldn't of crashed at all. Oh and why am I allowed to do 65km/h through a 40km/h school zone and keep my license, but if I do 130km/h down the Hume Hwy (110 zone) I will have my car impounded, isn't that the wrong way round :bangin::bangin:

The germans realised a long time ago that speed can be used in a safe and appropriate manner to get somewhere quickly and safely. So they upgraded there road network increased there driver training and enforced some appropriate safety measures such as:
- Autobahn's have an advisory 130km/h limit
- Extra Wide Lanes
- Slow vehicles must keep left without exception
- Trucks limited to 80km/h and left lane only
- Tailgate camera's (why can't we do this here)

Not to mention
- All vehicles must carry safety vests for there occupants
- All vehicles must carry a Fire Extinguisher and First Aid Kit
- In Bumper to Bumper traffic stick to the left of the lane, to allow emergency vehicle access
- If you run out of fuel they will throw the book at you as in there eyes it was avoidable

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, and were discussing the psycology behind driving.

What would happen if you removed speedo's? Would you slow down or speed up :unsure:

Stu

Whenever this subject comes up, people love to quote what happens on the Autobahn in Europe. I must admit that I have never been there. Do they have roads other than the Autobahn and if so what are the limits on those. We do not and are not likely for a long time to have roads encompassing this nation that are to the standard of the Autobahn, so why keep comparing them.

[Sprint]

Best you take a serious look at your sex life maybe ??

lets not........

as for cops using discretion, they can and often do, yes, they do have a job to do, but most of them recognise that if they spend thier time chasing minor things, major offences go unnoticed and therefore unpunished

what you say about being taught to drive on gravel roads has a point, i was taught to drive by a guy who's now pushing 80, he said i'd figure out the road rules and driving around town easy enough, but hearily encouraged spirited driving on bush mail runs, reckoned if i could learn the limits of the car on a relatively safe surface, i would learn not only when i was pushing the limit, but how to recover when it went to ****...... and to his credit, all the lunatic acts ive done has only ever ended with me coming to grief once...... came around a corner on a bush road way too fast (yes, i knew it wasnt a bright idea, but the over-run area was a good few hundred meters of grass....)

end result? nose first into the tabledrain, no damage apart from a slightly bruised ego..... and yes, i was alone

i'm with you on the issue of education, defensive driving will only get you so far, offensive driving courses will increase a drivers skills and ability for when things inevitibly go pear shaped

[B92 8NW]

This is assuming it takes you a second to get you foot on the brake :eek: I'd be getting my reflexes tested if this was the case and if it isn't then the statistics are all wrong again! :(

hmmmm,

1.2 is the official calculated time from testing conducted between the TAC and Monash University ARC.

[Slunnie]

Whenever this subject comes up, people love to quote what happens on the Autobahn in Europe. I must admit that I have never been there. Do they have roads other than the Autobahn and if so what are the limits on those. We do not and are not likely for a long time to have roads encompassing this nation that are to the standard of the Autobahn, so why keep comparing them.
Then swap Autobahn for NT highway pre 130km/h speed limit. ;)

[Leo]

I'm all for sensible speed limits in built up areas, but it amazes me that in a country the size of Australia, you have ridiculously low limits on your major highways, which are in good condition, AFAIK.

Even in the UK, during quiet times, 100mph seems slow and you'll have people overtaking you despite the posted limit of 70mph. As long as there isn't a cop car around.

In South Africa, most of the ploice forces are now too broke to buy speed guns etc so on the good highways the speeds are pretty high but there hasn't been a corresponding increase in accidents.

In Germany, you'll often find cars sitting on their limiters at 155mph.......but the quality of driver training and discipline counters the possible dangers.

It's not speed per se that's dangerous - you just have to use your common sense and take into account the road and car condition, amount of traffic, weather etc.

[81stubee]

Whenever this subject comes up, people love to quote what happens on the Autobahn in Europe. I must admit that I have never been there. Do they have roads other than the Autobahn and if so what are the limits on those. We do not and are not likely for a long time to have roads encompassing this nation that are to the standard of the Autobahn, so why keep comparing them.

That's like saying, we will never have a high speed train between sydney/canberra/melbourne, so why look at the TGV:mad: Why can't we have High Speed Roads/Trains?

Do a google for driving in germany, i can't remember the website to quote but our Road Safety/Laws leave a lot to be desired.

I must say I have never been there, but have many friends who have. They have a different attitude to driving, and there are alternatives to driving. Don't get me wrong, I love this country and are greatful to those who defend it and our right to freedom, but our severe lack of Alternative transportation is disgraceful. This then pushes everyone to own at least one car and people that don't really want to drive have to even if they can't.

[Slunnie]

That is a really good question :o I like it a lot, I am going to ask a lot of people that and I run a speedo shop ;)

I think I would drive much they way I do at the moment, fast around corners but steady in a straight line :D
We're talking instruments, not swimmers right? :p

[discomuzz]

Then swap Autobahn for NT highway pre 130km/h speed limit. ;)

Huh!:o

When did this happen?

[81stubee]

We're talking instruments, not swimmers right? :p

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::clap2:

[Sprint]

Huh!:o

When did this happen?

started january 2008 IIRC

In South Africa, most of the ploice forces are now too broke to buy speed guns etc so on the good highways the speeds are pretty high but there hasn't been a corresponding increase in accidents.


gotta love it

NT introduces speed limits and the fatality rate soars

South African police cant enforce sped limits, everyone who can afford a car travels at high speed and there has been little, if any increase in accidents

remember what i was saying about moronic kneejerk reactions by the guddamint?

[discomuzz]

...NT introduces speed limits and the fatality rate soars...

Great example of a test case wouldn't you think?

Lots of data pre and post speed limits!

From my experience, NT @ 130 kph? Ya' what?

[leeds]

In light of the evidence in the previous post's such as the area in which this occurred, I am incredibly dissapointed that this 78YO could be so STUPID, if he was going down the eastern freeway with no-one around I may be looking at it differently.

We are getting off topic now, but :soapbox: it really gets my dander up when people issue broad statements that speed and speed alone is the biggest Killer. There are so many other factors to be taken into consideration. Saying that he would of stopped 33% quicker if he had been going slower yada yada is all well and good on a straight road, but in reality, what was the cause of the crash. Was it the pot-hole that wasn't there last week, the bend in the road, the poor tyres on the car, the bad brakes, or the speed. If you take any ONE factor out of the equation the crash may not have happened. Hey if he had been going 0km/h he wouldn't of crashed at all. Oh and why am I allowed to do 65km/h through a 40km/h school zone and keep my license, but if I do 130km/h down the Hume Hwy (110 zone) I will have my car impounded, isn't that the wrong way round :bangin::bangin:

The germans realised a long time ago that speed can be used in a safe and appropriate manner to get somewhere quickly and safely. So they upgraded there road network increased there driver training and enforced some appropriate safety measures such as:
- Autobahn's have an advisory 130km/h limit
- Extra Wide Lanes
- Slow vehicles must keep left without exception
- Trucks limited to 80km/h and left lane only
- Tailgate camera's (why can't we do this here)

Not to mention
- All vehicles must carry safety vests for there occupants
- All vehicles must carry a Fire Extinguisher and First Aid Kit
- In Bumper to Bumper traffic stick to the left of the lane, to allow emergency vehicle access
- If you run out of fuel they will throw the book at you as in there eyes it was avoidable

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, and were discussing the psycology behind driving.

What would happen if you removed speedo's? Would you slow down or speed up :unsure:

Stu

Speed does not kill! The sudden deceleration of the car kills its occupants! Conversely it is the sudden acceleration of the pedestrian which happens when the pedestrian is hit by a car.

I am guessing that you have not driven on German autobahns. The Germans like the majourity of Europe drive on the right so they overtake on the left Conversely Australia and the UK drive on the left and overtake on the right Slow vehicles in Germany hence keep to the right.

An awlful lot of German Autobahns have speed limits of less then 130 kph.

Many autobahns are dual carriageway and are in a terrible state of repair! The lorry ruts are diabolical and the roads were not designed and built to cope with the current traffic conditions. Yes you can go on Wikipedian and get various figures but the reality is that traffic and road conditions on the autobahns have changed dramatically since the expansion of the EU into the former Soviet bloc countries.
The number of Eastern European lorries pouring into Germany has to be seen to be believed. Along with the number of cars/vans/small car transporters with car trailers laden with damaged/stolen/old cars going back and into eastern Europe. These drivers do not take note of normal driving hours etc.

The conditions of the German autobahn system in the last 30 odd years have gone from being the best in western Europe to among some of the worst in western Europe!

Regards

Brendan

[JDNSW]

The stats for 'drink driving' against 'speed' collisions are a flawed comparison. Most 'collisions' for drink driving are low speed, whereas if you have a lose at high speed then somones going to get dead or seriously injured - which is why it's gained recent high media value.
.......

While most 'collisions' for drink driving may be at low speed, around 30% of drivers involved in fatal accidents are above the legal limit - this is where the figure comes from, not those low speed crashes. When you consider that many of these fatal crashes involve two drivers, the proportion of fatal accidents where alcohol is a major factor is probably much higher than the 25% quoted. (all fatal accidents require blood tests for all drivers involved, so the statistics will be pretty complete) Of course, in many cases high speed is involved as well as alcohol.

You are correct that a tiny proportion of drivers drink drive (way below 1% based on results of random tests), but all the evidence is that they are the major cause of fatal accidents.

From the enforcement point of view, speeding has the advantage that it is easy to measure, can be done without stopping the vehicle, and produces revenue at minimal cost, while revenue can be maximised by setting unreasonable limits. And while action against speeding is unpopular, any really effective action against drink driving would be far more unpopular, as alcohol is the drug of choice for a large majority of voters.

Age does not necessarily mean incompetence - worth noting that the surviving instructor in the recent midair collision was 89 - this in a job that requires annual medicals (actually I think at that age it is more frequent) and three monthly practical checks. (There is no suggestion that his age played any part in the accident - in any case the pilot in the left seat, who was undergoing a licence test, would have had primary responsibility for lookout.)

In another area, I have seen statistics quoted that show that unlicenced drivers have almost exactly the same crash and offence rate as licenced drivers.

John

[87County]

from wiki: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to Benjamin Disraeli......... etc......

unfortunately statistics & surveys can be used to prove whatever the statistician wants them to.....

after all, I've heard that one definition of a statistician is that he is just an accountant who couldn't handle the pace :)

whatever is said, I don't think I could be convinced that excessive speed is a not a killer ... less reaction time + more terminal energy = more severe terminal result

[JohnR]

We're talking instruments, not swimmers right? :p

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling: yes. Going fast in DT's is down drive dangerous ! :eek:

[JDNSW]

from wiki: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is part of a phrase attributed to Benjamin Disraeli......... etc......

unfortunately statistics & surveys can be used to prove whatever the statistician wants them to.....

after all, I've heard that one definition of a statistician is that he is just an accountant who couldn't handle the pace :)

whatever is said, I don't think I could be convinced that excessive speed is a not a killer ... less reaction time + more terminal energy = more severe terminal result


Discounting statistics is a favourite way of sticking to your own beliefs in the face of evidence (think history of smoking and health). Having said that, there is no doubt that excessive speed can be a killer - the only catch is defining "excessive".

Obviously reaction time represents more ground covered at higher speeds, but this simply means that you need to be able to see further (and it is clear that in the case being discussed this was the main problem, and certainly the conviction was sound!). It also means that in the event of a crash the damage will be more severe, and more likely fatal. But this simply makes the point that any event, including a crash, has a whole string of "causes", where if any were not present the event would not happen. So in a high speed fatal accident, was the death because of the speed or because of the other factors that caused the event?
To take the only local fatality so far this year in this area as an example, involving a high speed head on between an (unidentifiable - it is about 20cm from the front bumper to the rear wheels) ute and a B-double on the Newell near Tomingley. The ute crossed to the wrong side of the road on a straight stretch with both vehicles travelling at least at 100 -110kph (fine weather, daylight). Did speed cause the death? Certainly, although to be non-fatal, you would have to have both vehicles travelling below 20kph. But it is obvious that the major "cause" in this case is not speed, but why did he cross to the wrong side? More likely to be alcohol than speed, could be a mechanical failure, could be fatigue (perhaps helped by the relatively low speed limit and long distances) or other driver incapacitation, certainly would not have happened if the road (one of the busiest highways in Australia, especially for trucks) was a divided road. It is also the type of 'accident' that is very likely to be suicide.

John

[Bigbjorn]

In the times pre-1970 when NSW still had a lot of "unrestricted" roads you could drive at any speed you thought was safe in the prevailing circumstances. If the nice policeman got in a snot and thought otherwise you would be charged with dangerous driving. A successful defence used on a number of occasions was a motor sport history indicating you were accustomed to fast driving and were competent to do so. A letter from your car club confirming this was usually tendered to the court in support. A CAMS open licence was also useful.

In the case under discussion this defence could have been used had there not been a posted speed limit.

[CraigE]

The excuse of "Its not the speed that kills, but the sudden stop or deceleration" is the oldest b/s excuse in the world. Yes I love speed and there are times and places for it. But speed limits are in place for a reason. We are not Gernany and our roads are not built for high speed, let alone the wildlife interference.
If a car is doing say 160 kmph in a 60kmph zone or even a 110kmph zone and hits a car or truck sitting on the vehicles or posted speed limit, it is without doubt the speed that has caused it not tjust the deceleration.
:(

[Slunnie]

The excuse of "Its not the speed that kills, but the sudden stop or deceleration" is the oldest b/s excuse in the world. Yes I love speed and there are times and places for it. But speed limits are in place for a reason. We are not Gernany and our roads are not built for high speed, let alone the wildlife interference.
If a car is doing say 160 kmph in a 60kmph zone or even a 110kmph zone and hits a car or truck sitting on the vehicles or posted speed limit, it is without doubt the speed that has caused it not tjust the deceleration.
:(
I think that many of our roads are built for high speed and would handle high limits easily - probably most of the 110 zones that have wide lanes, broad sides, islands and barriers between each side of the road. The Hume Hwy in NSW could easily be a 130km/h road, likewise much of the Newcastle expressway. But, they're not so really its a moot point. But what you have raised also highlights why people travelling under the speed limits should be booked also as the speed differential does can cause problems.

[Sprint]

Great example of a test case wouldn't you think?

Lots of data pre and post speed limits!

From my experience, NT @ 130 kph? Ya' what?

i'm going to assume you're being serious here

indeed, a wonderfull example of a test case, the NT government of the time used the road toll as an excuse to introduce the speed limits, the simple fact that the road toll has risen so sharply is evidence that introducing the 130km/h speed limit ISNT WORKING

i would also bet that if you looked into it, the majority of fatalities on NT roads pre-limit were on roads that already had speed limits in place

[SPROVER]

I havent read every post on here yet about this bloke who was doing 170kmh.But i would like to say this.Before i get the s**t blasted out of me on here i have seen this guy drive.I use to do club racing with him and his car was far from stock.Its a GTi-r with over 300 hp and 4wd.Now im not condoning his actions at all but you would think because of this guys age his reactions would be quite slow.Well he is 78 after all.But thats where you would be wrong.This guy took out the over 3 litre class at Nissan Datsun club and could drive just as well as anyone on here.I can tell you i was shocked when i saw him step out of the car for the first time.I was expecting a young guy.But he really could drive.:wheelchair::wheelchair::burnrubber:
Now before everyone jumps down my throat im not condoning it!!!! Hope i spelt that right by the way:D:D

[Fusion]

I can see what you are trying to say mate . He maybe a pretty good driver on a track ( blocked off roads ) .But there are no on coming traffic or people out riding bikes or even walking on the side of the road . If he has a small hiccup he has 2 lanes and the shoulders of the road to gather it back together . In everyday use he has one lane leaving very small room for any type of error . I say leave the speed on the track and obey the road rules when not on the track. Then no one gets upset and life goes along nicely :D;) .

[ATH]

I'm sure the vast majority of road users try to obey the rules but even very good drivers occassionally stray over the limits in certain circumstances.
The way the roads are policed in WA leaves much to be desired and seems to amount mostly to booking drivers for minor over the limit offences and cameras are nicely positioned on down hill stretches and good wide roads, not on known dangerous roads.
Seems to me it's not so much the speed that drivers are doing but the stupidity of things they do at any speed much of which gets ignored by the cops.
For example, an ex traffic sergeant (now confined to the station:)) told me recently that they do not book drivers for not signalling as this is not a cause of accidents!
In this case I wonder why car manufacturers bother putting them on vehicles as standard equipment and ADRs require them, although a large proportion of WA drivers never use them. :o
Anyway, the old bloke deserves all he gets as he should have known the cops would throw the book at him for vastly exceeding the limit, which at 78 kays over was real stupidity.
Happy motoring.
Alan.

[mcrover]

Maybe just shooting them would solve the problem.........:o

You wouldnt need to chase them and cause injury to anyone else, just use laser guided rifle and 1 shot, game over.

After a couple of dozen incedents of police assisted road deaths, the hoons...of any age may get the idea.

[Stuck]

Slightly off topic but I've just read about this in my local rag (Newcastle Herald). The way the story is worded gives the impression that in this case they were able to get their cars back from being impounded straight away by paying $600. Is this right or has the media stuffed up the facts ?. I've been led to believe that all states that use impoundment have a minimum confiscation period for the vehicle.

Cheers,
Anthony.

[Sprint]

Maybe just shooting them would solve the problem.........:o

You wouldnt need to chase them and cause injury to anyone else, just use laser guided rifle and 1 shot, game over.

After a couple of dozen incedents of police assisted road deaths, the hoons...of any age may get the idea.

and how long before the hoons armed themselves? its easier to get hold of illegal firearms than the government wants you to believe

[CaverD3]

its easier to get hold of illegal firearms than the government wants you to believe

Infact easier than geting one legally. :mad:

[easo]

from what they said he is a collector of military vehicle and they scanned across his yard showing some WW2 armoured vehicles .
Did any body else see it?

Cliff

Owner Melbourne Tank museum.




[FONT=Verdana]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR="Red"]He said he lives for "danger" but everyone else on the road would really just like to live. If you want to drive fast or put your life in danger go be a race car driver or how about volunteering for the frontline of the army?

Tell him to go work for the private security sector in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Easo

[Camo]

Ive got some great video footage doing 160 down main beach Straddie in my old V8 Injected FJ40.. with mate standing in the back holding on the roll bars:D

ol fisherman on the beach wern't impressed:confused:

but hey I was 24.. was awesome fun.. wouldn't do stuff like that now:eek:

[dobbo]

Get of your high horses people.

Yes Speeding is dangerous. So is 4wding, drinking, smoking, shagging, eating meat, spending hours in front of a computer screen etc.......


Half the street racers I have met are aged over 40yrs. They are better drivers because they learnt how to drive before traction aids and high horsepower was introduced into absolutely everything on the road.

I would love to see a modern day P plater handle an old Val, POS Commodore or Ford through it's paces and not come unstuck.

[Slunnie]

Get of your high horses people.

Yes Speeding is dangerous. So is 4wding, drinking, smoking, shagging, eating meat, spending hours in front of a computer screen etc.......


Half the street racers I have met are aged over 40yrs. They are better drivers because they learnt how to drive before traction aids and high horsepower was introduced into absolutely everything on the road.

I would love to see a modern day P plater handle an old Val, POS Commodore or Ford through it's paces and not come unstuck.
Why would a P plater now be any different to a P plater from 40 years ago? Both are highly inexperienced in pushing a vehicle hard. I would have thought that a 40yo would be a lot more experienced and more rational and collected when things get exciting due to prior experiences

[Sprint]

Why would a P plater now be any different to a P plater from 40 years ago? Both are highly inexperienced in pushing a vehicle hard. I would have thought that a 40yo would be a lot more experienced and more rational and collected when things get exciting due to prior experiences

because recent P platers have learnt to drive with much more modern technology in terms of suspension, braking, driver aids, etc

[Slunnie]

because recent P platers have learnt to drive with much more modern technology in terms of suspension, braking, driver aids, etc
True, but like in the older vehicles I bet as a learner they've never pushed them enough to make use of them.

[Sprint]

i did..... frequently!

[CraigE]

Get of your high horses people.

Yes Speeding is dangerous. So is 4wding, drinking, smoking, shagging, eating meat, spending hours in front of a computer screen etc.......


Half the street racers I have met are aged over 40yrs. They are better drivers because they learnt how to drive before traction aids and high horsepower was introduced into absolutely everything on the road.

I would love to see a modern day P plater handle an old Val, POS Commodore or Ford through it's paces and not come unstuck.

Yes, maybe so, but its more about people taking responsability for their actions when speeding and not blaming just the sudden deceleration for the damage. In most cases the sudden deceleration would not have occured if the person was not speeding to start with.
The comparrisons to the old cars are just wrong and I have driven most of them as most of the V8s around now are double or even more hp than the old ones, granted they have driver aids.
I love speed but you need to pick your time and place. When people and other traffic is around it is neither the time or place on public roads.
Yes I have done 300kmph on a bike and 270kmph in a couple of cars, but was carefull about picking locations. And I would take responsability for any consequences.

[CraigE]

Ive got some great video footage doing 160 down main beach Straddie in my old V8 Injected FJ40.. with mate standing in the back holding on the roll bars:D

ol fisherman on the beach wern't impressed:confused:

but hey I was 24.. was awesome fun.. wouldn't do stuff like that now:eek:
I have to say that is just stupid at any age with other beach users around. Maybe acceptable if you were the only ones on the beach so could only take yourself out.:o
If I had been fishing on the beach with my family you could have rest assured you would not have been walking home and you V8 yota would have been in the surf.:twisted:
You are lucky your mate did not fall out or you hit a fisherman cause you would be typing this from jail. Sand and speed are just to unprdictable in a poulated area.:mad:
Yes I have done some stupid things but never endangered others lives that did not consent to the activity.

[CraigE]

I think that many of our roads are built for high speed and would handle high limits easily - probably most of the 110 zones that have wide lanes, broad sides, islands and barriers between each side of the road. The Hume Hwy in NSW could easily be a 130km/h road, likewise much of the Newcastle expressway. But, they're not so really its a moot point. But what you have raised also highlights why people travelling under the speed limits should be booked also as the speed differential does can cause problems.
Yeah, but the limits are in place due to our road conditions (well most of them) would not support higher speeds and a lot of the traffic could not maintain these speeds so create further danger. A 110 maintaining 130kmph all day, you would be deaf.

[CraigE]

Oh and to put it in perspective Peter Brock was my hero and one of the best drivers this country has seen and look what happened to him in a fully prepared race car with all PPE and safety devices on a closed road circuit.:mad:
It can and will happen to the so called best drivers on a race circuit let alone a public road with all levels of drivers and oncoming traffic.

RIP Brocky

[Fusion]

Oh and to put it in perspective Peter Brock was my hero and one of the best drivers this country has seen and look what happened to him in a fully prepared race car with all PPE and safety devices on a closed road circuit.:mad:
It can and will happen to the so called best drivers on a race circuit let alone a public road with all levels of drivers and oncoming traffic.

RIP Brocky

R.I.P Brocky . Also my hero :(.

[Camo]

I have to say that is just stupid at any age with other beach users around. Maybe acceptable if you were the only ones on the beach so could only take yourself out.
If I had been fishing on the beach with my family you could have rest assured you would not have been walking home and you V8 yota would have been in the surf.
You are lucky your mate did not fall out or you hit a fisherman cause you would be typing this from jail. Sand and speed are just to unprdictable in a poulated area.
Yes I have done some stupid things but never endangered others lives that did not consent to the activity.

LOL too funny.. Mr fun police comes out today!!

there were no people on the beach.. just a few fishing in the surf.. as if you would do 160 on a crowded beach

At the end of the day it was fun:D

[Fusion]

i did..... frequently!

As a learner driver you pushed cars to their full potential .:eek:









What a bunch of crap ! And if you did . Who ever was in the car with you needed a bloody good slappin for letting you do such things on public roads .

[81stubee]

Yeah, but the limits are in place due to our road conditions (well most of them) would not support higher speeds and a lot of the traffic could not maintain these speeds so create further danger. A 110 maintaining 130kmph all day, you would be deaf.

I don't think any of us are asking to go flat knacker in an SS, most of us just want to use our own brain and drive at a safe and comfortable speed. If you can only do 110kmh in your 110 then so be it, just keep to the BL#$DY left. My EL Fairmont was quite capable of sitting on 125kmh with the cruise on, and actually returned better fuel economy.

I just want to use my own judgement to drive safely and not worry every five minutes about being treated like a criminal for doing 5kmh over the posted limit.

What was wrong with the 10% rule anyway

Stu

[Sprint]

As a learner driver you pushed cars to their full potential .:eek:

What a bunch of crap ! And if you did . Who ever was in the car with you needed a bloody good slappin for letting you do such things on public roads .
very rarely on sealed roads, most often on bush roads well out of town where you can see people coming a good couple of k's away, most often though on a 150 acre paddock that had been cleared and used for cattle..... paddock work? be the biggest lunatic you can!

[clean32]

Yeppa I was a big hoon.
But not now
there is a short bit of country road that we would Nail hard for fun, 80mph curves into a 2nd gear U nice camber etc. That was 20 years ago.
2 years ago I visited this old stamping ground in a rented V6 manual mondeo. the road hasn’t changed 1 bit, but the mondeo just cruised around at speeds that 20 years ago were all balls, Cars Have changed much, who hasn’t losed the back end of an HQ at some time, imposable to catch, modern cars just don’t do things like that. I think that is part of the problem. I remember reading once, a more capable 4X4 just means you are going to get stuck in a more inaccessible place. I think that the same applies to modern cars, they are more capable and when they do come unstuck its at such a higher speed, thus more damage.

The other thing was that my old country road is now lined with houses and 2 schools.

Any way ill stay with the isuzu, but if any one hits my wife and or mini me they will never need a license again.

[Camo]

I don't think any of us are asking to go flat knacker in an SS, most of us just want to use our own brain and drive at a safe and comfortable speed. If you can only do 110kmh in your 110 then so be it, just keep to the BL#$DY left. My EL Fairmont was quite capable of sitting on 125kmh with the cruise on, and actually returned better fuel economy.

I just want to use my own judgement to drive safely and not worry every five minutes about being treated like a criminal for doing 5kmh over the posted limit.

What was wrong with the 10% rule anyway

Stu

Well put Stu

When I did my pilots license years ago No.1 rule was to 'fly to the conditions' .. use your head..don't spend all your time on the gauges

Same with driving a car..I spend half the time watching my speed limit as there are too many speed traps out there now.

But thats just how it is now I guess..

[JDNSW]

As a footnote to the discussion on P-plates above; driving into town today I came across a small sedan wrapped round a tree. A ute was stopped on the opposite side of the road, and I stopped to see if help was needed. The woman in the ute said no help was needed, the car belonged to her partner, and he was on his way out from hospital to get some things out of the car.

The car had red P-plates. That section of road is straight with a reasonable width of two lane bitumen. He had left the road to the right, and I'm guessing he got off the bitumen to the left (possibly dodging a roo last night) started to drift in the gravel, and lost it. I would also very much doubt he was below his red P-plate speed limit. Looking at the damage, he was lucky to survive, let alone be out of hospital that soon.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

In regards to hoons and especially P plater crashes when exceeding the speed limit: I am actually a believer in the Darwin Awards philosophy, so long as they do remove themselves from the gene pool without taking anyone else along with them or being in the honourable mention category*.

Diana

* "honourable mention" Darwin Award category, the recipient doesn't die (and becomes a burdon on their family and the health system).

[amtravic1]

This is an interesting thread and there are many interesting replies.
There is no simple answer to what people regard as speeding. I have often ridden at more that 2.5 times the Victorian open speed limit, I often drive/ride well below the speed limit. It depends on the conditions of the road, weather, traffic or lack of etc that detirmines what is safe.
Innapropriate speed is what kills, as does lack of pateince, drinking and just plain bad luck.

It seems that most people have different skill levels and perceptions of the road conditions and a slow 100 kph to one person may be stuidly fast too another.
To make it easy for the government to administer and determine they set a speed limit which we are supposed to stick to. Personally I think that limit is way too low on many roads but it would be almost impossible to test everyone and determine each persons skill level and set them a limit and it would be impossible to police unless each driver had some sort of identification on the car that the police could see easily.

Interestingly,
I know as a fact that Victorian Freeways were designed for a minimum of 140 kph as I had an engineer freind who worked for VicRoads who helped design them.

Ian

[dobbo]

Yeppa I was a big hoon.
But not now
there is a short bit of country road that we would Nail hard for fun, 80mph curves into a 2nd gear U nice camber etc. That was 20 years ago.
2 years ago I visited this old stamping ground in a rented V6 manual mondeo. the road hasn’t changed 1 bit, but the mondeo just cruised around at speeds that 20 years ago were all balls, Cars Have changed much, who hasn’t losed the back end of an HQ at some time, imposable to catch, modern cars just don’t do things like that. I think that is part of the problem. I remember reading once, a more capable 4X4 just means you are going to get stuck in a more inaccessible place. I think that the same applies to modern cars, they are more capable and when they do come unstuck its at such a higher speed, thus more damage.

The other thing was that my old country road is now lined with houses and 2 schools.

Any way ill stay with the isuzu, but if any one hits my wife and or mini me they will never need a license again.


Are you implying that an old NA Isuzu County could not sit on $1.40 all day.


In regards to hoons and especially P plater crashes when exceeding the speed limit: I am actually a believer in the Darwin Awards philosophy, so long as they do remove themselves from the gene pool without taking anyone else along with them or being in the honourable mention category*.

Diana

* "honourable mention" Darwin Award category, the recipient doesn't die (and becomes a burdon on their family and the health system).

Can't they just not have children to remove themselves from the Gene pool? Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase I have come to clean the pool.

[mcrover]

and how long before the hoons armed themselves? its easier to get hold of illegal firearms than the government wants you to believe

After about a month there wouldnt be any hoons :D

Maybe just ban Turbo petrol engines, low profile tyres, any sort of safety restraint system that is not OEM and have a big spike coming out ot the steering wheel insead of an airbag, maybe that would deter them :eek:

[dobbo]

After about a month there wouldnt be any hoons :D

Maybe just ban Turbo petrol engines, low profile tyres, any sort of safety restraint system that is not OEM and have a big spike coming out ot the steering wheel insead of an airbag, maybe that would deter them :eek:


You need therepy


It is funny, but not funny hoo hoo, tis funny har har. The serial killer type of funny (you know the, I am not a man dressed like a woman, I am an evolved being) I am the impetomy of evolution, I am what Darwin seeked, eve olution is my name. The type of scary funny Dianna speaks of in the Darwin awards.

[Tombie]

Nothing like a topic like this to fire the board up hey!!!

But excessive speed isnt the only problem...

Excessive slowness is also a major danger...... :eek:


Nothing like cruising around a curve at 115km/h only to be confronted by a geriatric old fart towing a caravan at 80km/h on Highway 1 :mad:

[JDNSW]

Nothing like a topic like this to fire the board up hey!!!

But excessive speed isnt the only problem...

Excessive slowness is also a major danger...... :eek:


Nothing like cruising around a curve at 115km/h only to be confronted by a geriatric old fart towing a caravan at 80km/h on Highway 1 :mad:


But you have to expect slow vehicles anywhere - after all, NSW learners are not allowed to do over 80 anywhere, even interstate. And it is perfectly legal to drive vehicles with a maximum speed below this on any road (e.g. vintage or veteran cars, tractors, heavily loaded Series 1s on hills etc.). And the "geriatric old fart" may be in no hurry and just keeping fuel consumption down.

John
"G.O.F."

[Sprint]

And the "geriatric old fart" may be in no hurry and just keeping fuel consumption down.

so you're saying that the GOF cant afford to do the grey nomad thing? why is he doing it then?

[Tombie]

But you have to expect slow vehicles anywhere - after all, NSW learners are not allowed to do over 80 anywhere, even interstate. And it is perfectly legal to drive vehicles with a maximum speed below this on any road (e.g. vintage or veteran cars, tractors, heavily loaded Series 1s on hills etc.). And the "geriatric old fart" may be in no hurry and just keeping fuel consumption down.

John
"G.O.F."

:D

Actually John there are LAWS against this (unless the vehicle is restricted to a lower speed)...

Its called "impeding the flow of traffic"

Any vehicle rated to tow a large van should be able to sit close to the speed limit and therefore should do same!

A vintage vehicle etc, that cannot maintain speeds of a zone must by law YIELD and allow all traffic to pass when safe to do so...
This legally means he has to pull off the highway every time someone gets stuck behind him and there is a shoulder on the road.

To give you some further evidence of this law...

South Eastern Freeway...
My mate and I left Hahndorf back in 1998 heading to adelaide and drove side by side at 140km/h blocking the ability of an aggravated Porsche driver to pass us.

He finally slipped up the emergency lane and got past! And was promptly pursued and pulled over the by Cops that had been watching all of this.

We were also pulled over...

The Porsche got improper use of emergency lane, dangerous driving charges..

Both my mate and I were charged with 'Impeding the flow of traffic'

When we argued that we were above the speed limit (110 zone) by a decent margin, how could it be impeding traffic? The friendly officer advised us that the speed made no difference, we still impeded the flow :o





So yes, I hate slow moving vehicles... And Grey Nomads are some of the worst....

[JDNSW]

so you're saying that the GOF cant afford to do the grey nomad thing? why is he doing it then?

Nothing to do with "afford" - if you are not in a hurry why waste fuel? Particularly if you are looking at the countryside, perhaps reminiscing about how much it has/has not changed in the last fifty years. And in any case many people of all ages do things they can't afford, scraping pennies to manage it.

John

[Slunnie]

I think that just because someone is in no hurry (half their luck!) irrespective of who they are, that it isn't an excuse to hold up the traffic. Its just plain rude and frustrating for other road users and encourages less safe practices such as overtaking.

[Tombie]

Nothing to do with "afford" - if you are not in a hurry why waste fuel? Particularly if you are looking at the countryside, perhaps reminiscing about how much it has/has not changed in the last fifty years. And in any case many people of all ages do things they can't afford, scraping pennies to manage it.

John

Then you shouldn't be bloody driving!!!!

When you're driving - You should be watching the road...


Its THESE exact sort of reasons why fatalities occur on our highways.

Only the passengers should be doing this, and then, they should NOT be distracting the driver operating the vehicle.

(This is NOT aimed at you personally - Do not take it as such)
But I have seen too many accidents and close calls from this exact behaviour on our roads.

[Sprint]

Nothing to do with "afford" - if you are not in a hurry why waste fuel? Particularly if you are looking at the countryside, perhaps reminiscing about how much it has/has not changed in the last fifty years. And in any case many people of all ages do things they can't afford, scraping pennies to manage it.

1: regardless of wether you're in a hurry or not, its common courtesy to travel at the posted speed limit, anyone who wants to speed, its thier problem, they want to break the law, they can overtake you, just because you're not in a hurry is no reason to get in the way of other law abiding road users

2:if you are so serious about seeing the countryside, pull over from your dawdling and admire the countryside, it'll give the dozen cars and trucks that have been jammed behind you for the past half hour to get past and get on with thier day

[scarry]

R.I.P Brocky . Also my hero :(.

x2:D

[abaddonxi]

And what do the P platers do when limited to 90Kmh?

Single lane road, of course, 100 or 110 limit.

Should they pull over onto the shoulder for every other vehicle?

Simon

[Slunnie]

A P plater isn't smelling the roses as he drives.

[Tombie]

And what do the P platers do when limited to 90Kmh?

Single lane road, of course, 100 or 110 limit.

Should they pull over onto the shoulder for every other vehicle?

Simon

YES... YES... YES... Where safe to do so, OR more so, when there are no safe overtaking points for the trailing vehicles...

Not that you can catch up to most P platers :angel:

[abaddonxi]

I do remember a sign somewhere about not bringing bicycles or horse drawn carts onto the highway.

Simon

[CraigE]

I don't think any of us are asking to go flat knacker in an SS, most of us just want to use our own brain and drive at a safe and comfortable speed. If you can only do 110kmh in your 110 then so be it, just keep to the BL#$DY left. My EL Fairmont was quite capable of sitting on 125kmh with the cruise on, and actually returned better fuel economy.

I just want to use my own judgement to drive safely and not worry every five minutes about being treated like a criminal for doing 5kmh over the posted limit.

What was wrong with the 10% rule anyway

Stu
Yeah. sorry dipstick but we have a 5.7 Statesman and an SS Torana that are quite capable of sitting on 180kmph all day every day and capable of much more but I dont, because if I hit other road users doing the speed limit I am wrong morally and legally. Plus road bikes capable of much more. 5kmph over the speed limit is one thing but 40 or 50 is a completely different kettle of fish and yes I have done much more than that but not in general traffic. Not too many coppers I know would book you for 5kmph over the limit. The trouble is all you clowns think you are indestructable. Come to a couple of MVA's with me and see the result of a speed hero that has lived and taken a fanily out. "But officer I am a good driver" BS absolute BS. Speed limits are in place because the average driver is not capable of making safe judgements regarding speed. 110kmph is too much for some people. Often it is all over in a millisecond. Try and explain it to the family of the person you hit because I can handle a car at 150 and the idiot in front of me with his wife and kids was driving at 110kmph. It was his fault not mine because I can drive and he can not.
And your statement on fuel economy is absolute crap. It is impossible to return better fuel consumption with cruise on at 125 than with cruise on at 110. RPM is the factor.:mad::mad::angrylock:
And yes I know speed as I have been 300kmph on a Hayabusa and often 250-270 on other bikes, plus over 220-250 in many cars, but in a sensible place. And my Fender will do 150kmph, but why would I want too?
110kmph is a fair speed for our roads, 120kmph would be good but it is not so just accept it and move on.

[CraigE]

I do remember a sign somewhere about not bringing bicycles or horse drawn carts onto the highway.

Simon
On most freewat entry signs.:)

[CraigE]

Nothing like a topic like this to fire the board up hey!!!

But excessive speed isnt the only problem...

Excessive slowness is also a major danger...... :eek:


Nothing like cruising around a curve at 115km/h only to be confronted by a geriatric old fart towing a caravan at 80km/h on Highway 1 :mad:
Yep fully agree, many accidents where I lived cars doing 110-120 hitting a trailer of a truck doing 50kmph up a hill after a bend.

[JDNSW]

On most freewat entry signs.:)

Exactly. And freeways represent a tiny proportion of the highways in Australia with speed limits of 100+.

There is no requirement in any road rules to travel at the posted speed limit - it is just that, a limit, not a minimum. It may be courteous to travel at or close to it, but it is not a legal requirement, and there is no requirement that all vehicles should be capable of travelling at that speed limit.

John

[JDNSW]

1: regardless of wether you're in a hurry or not, its common courtesy to travel at the posted speed limit, anyone who wants to speed, its thier problem, they want to break the law, they can overtake you, just because you're not in a hurry is no reason to get in the way of other law abiding road users

It may be courtesy, but there is no requirement in law to do so and in NSW at least there are classes of drivers that are prohibited by law from exceeding 80 or 90 or 100 regardless of the speed limit - and these apply to those drivers regardless of which state they are driving in, and quite severe penalties apply. It is worth remembering that until quite recently a speed limit of 80kph applied in NSW to all trailers over 750kg. (a fruitful source of revenue from interstate visitors I recall)

2:if you are so serious about seeing the countryside, pull over from your dawdling and admire the countryside, it'll give the dozen cars and trucks that have been jammed behind you for the past half hour to get past and get on with thier day.

A significant proportion of this country's two lane highways have no safe place to pull over, especially if you are towing a large caravan, which makes this rather difficult to do. In my experience most slow vehicles are quite obliging in doing their best to allow others to pass, and I cannot recall any example of being stuck behind a slow vehicle for as long as half an hour.

The concept that driving at the fastest legal speed because you slept in has priority over appreciating natural beauty is something that I have trouble coming to terms with. Maybe it is also courteous (albeit not so common) to realise that everyone in this world is not in a tearing hurry all the time.


The point that some seem to be missing is that the posted speed limit is just that, a limit (Some overseas countries commonly have minimum speeds as well as maximums, usually around 70% of the limit, and only on freeways, but I cannot recall any examples in Australia - if they exist they must be rare). While many car drivers expect to travel at that limit, there is no legal requirement for all vehicles to do so, and quite a few are not capable of doing so in all circumstances (some, such as tractors, agricultural machinery and some vintage cars may not be capable of it in any circumstances), and anyone who expects all traffic to travel at the speed limit, and comes round a corner in the expectation that anyone travelling in their direction will be doing the same speed is driving dangerously - there could be an accident, breakdown, animal, vehicle slowing to turn into a gate, etc on the road, as well as a slow vehicle.

A further point that needs to be made is that with some states applying severe penalties for even small margins above the limit, enforced by numerous speed cameras, you can hardly blame drivers (particularly those with no points left to lose) who prefer to err well on the side of caution. Add the speedo error (Which is required to show a speed higher than the actual speed), and they may be well below the posted limit.

Another point is that, taking for example the highway nearest here, there are advisory speed signs on curves as much as 20kph below the posted speed limit. Are you seriously suggesting that just because you have the type of car, tyres and skills to keep to the limit round these bends that everyone should? In all conditions?

John

(I should point out that I mostly travel at or very close to the speed limit in the 110 (unless towing a large trailer), but usually 90 or less that in the 2a unless travelling long distances.)

[87County]

There seems to be a major misconception, both on this site and generally, that the signed speed is the speed which one should be travel at.. this is NOT so!

The signed speed is merely a speed which one should not exceed!

The signed speeds regularly fail to take account of road conditions, weather (slippery roads), blind corners, driver ability, time of day (eg black cattle not being seen until inside the stopping distance at night), and vehicle preservation (eg. rough and broken surfaces)... all proven by the number of "accidents" which generally are not accidents but driver error crashes.

If drivers think they must drive at or above the speed "limit" in inappropriate conditions, then lets reduce the speed limits generally - when this was done in the US (to 50mph in their first "oil shock") the rate of accidents and fuel consumption dropped dramatically...

In fact a speed limit of 85/90kph and more unbroken double lines would suit me just fine...

..........my 2c worth (and that's what most of you will think of it I guess)

[Sprint]

quite a few are not capable of doing so in all circumstances (some, such as tractors, agricultural machinery and some vintage cars may not be capable of it in any circumstances), and anyone who expects all traffic to travel at the speed limit, and comes round a corner in the expectation that anyone travelling in their direction will be doing the same speed is driving dangerously - there could be an accident, breakdown, animal, vehicle slowing to turn into a gate, etc on the road, as well as a slow vehicle.

its one thing to be unable to do the posted speed limit due to legal or physical restrictions, its something totally different to be so arrogant, ignorant and inconsiderate to deliberately travel at a lower speed than the posted speed limit in suitable conditions

JDNSW, i'm simply having a vent about the GOF's who cruise down the highway at 60-80, i have no issue with slowing down for wildlife, accidents/breakdowns, etc

87County, i'm a firm believer in driving to conditions, so you wont get any argument from em on that matter, but if some GOF wants to tow his pop top caravan down the highway at 60 (yes, ive had to deal with it repeatedly) why not crush his car and burn his licence? its just as dangerous, if not more than 40 over the limit


And your statement on fuel economy is absolute crap. It is impossible to return better fuel consumption with cruise on at 125 than with cruise on at 110. RPM is the factor.

not quite true, the fuel efficiency of the engine and wind resistance of the vehicle play a big part in it too, if the engine isnt working at an efficient RPM, it will be trying to burn more fuel to maintain 100km/h because of the load it is being subjected to, wind resistance is a factor because different shapes and speeds affect drag and at what affect it has on the vehicle at any given speed

just as a thought, ive done the same 300km trip in the same car, a week apart,

first time at a constant 100km/h, averaged 10.8L/100km
second time at an average 150km/h, averaged 11.3L/100km

wouldnt you think the 150km/h average would have a much higher average fuel consumption?

and please people, i know it was stupid and dangerous, so spare me the lectures please

[powella]

Exactly. And freeways represent a tiny proportion of the highways in Australia with speed limits of 100+.

There is no requirement in any road rules to travel at the posted speed limit - it is just that, a limit, not a minimum. It may be courteous to travel at or close to it, but it is not a legal requirement, and there is no requirement that all vehicles should be capable of travelling at that speed limit.

John

FYI from RTA:
125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians


(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.


Note. Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle—see the definition of drive in the Dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic, or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles (unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).
Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly. A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.
So if there is no reason, there is a "rule" which does apply, so it is a question around what is reasonable.

Cheers,
AP

[Blknight.aus]

:D

Actually John there are LAWS against this (unless the vehicle is restricted to a lower speed)...

Its called "impeding the flow of traffic"

Any vehicle rated to tow a large van should be able to sit close to the speed limit and therefore should do same!

A vintage vehicle etc, that cannot maintain speeds of a zone must by law YIELD and allow all traffic to pass when safe to do so...
This legally means he has to pull off the highway every time someone gets stuck behind him and there is a shoulder on the road.

To give you some further evidence of this law...

South Eastern Freeway...
My mate and I left Hahndorf back in 1998 heading to adelaide and drove side by side at 140km/h blocking the ability of an aggravated Porsche driver to pass us.

He finally slipped up the emergency lane and got past! And was promptly pursued and pulled over the by Cops that had been watching all of this.

We were also pulled over...

The Porsche got improper use of emergency lane, dangerous driving charges..

Both my mate and I were charged with 'Impeding the flow of traffic'

When we argued that we were above the speed limit (110 zone) by a decent margin, how could it be impeding traffic? The friendly officer advised us that the speed made no difference, we still impeded the flow :o





So yes, I hate slow moving vehicles... And Grey Nomads are some of the worst....


its a very brave officer who pulls out the impeding the flow of traffic rule these days and to my knowledge theres only about 10 roads in australia with posted minimum road speeds and most of these are primary freeways that clog up with congestion during peak hour traffic...

Imagine the cops having a go with that and the revenue they could create.

yes mr tombie2 you were caught in perth at 0830, 0840 and 0850 on 3 seperate supernovas on the jperth-joondalup freeway doing less that the prescribed minimum of 80kph that will be $450 in fines and would normaly only be 6 demerit points but as its christmas and were on double demerit points just hand your license in.

[Bigbjorn]

The Pacific Highway, the Newell Highway, and the Bruce Highway in the terrorist season are a sore trial to truckies, sales reps and others who travel frequently. The onset of cold weather, usually about late April, in the southern states brings out the caravans and the mobile homes, known to generations of truckies as "terrorists", a play on "tourists". Often long strings of them are sighted travelling at 80km/h or less on stretches with limits of 100-110 km/h. Few have the courtesy to look in their mirrors at the line of frustrated drivers of vehicles caught behind them and pull over to allow other traffic to get moving. This is why the regular road users loathe them with great passion.

[CaverD3]

:D




South Eastern Freeway...
My mate and I left Hahndorf back in 1998 heading to adelaide and drove side by side at 140km/h blocking the ability of an aggravated Porsche driver to pass us.

He finally slipped up the emergency lane and got past! And was promptly pursued and pulled over the by Cops that had been watching all of this.

We were also pulled over...

The Porsche got improper use of emergency lane, dangerous driving charges..

Both my mate and I were charged with 'Impeding the flow of traffic'

When we argued that we were above the speed limit (110 zone) by a decent margin, how could it be impeding traffic? The friendly officer advised us that the speed made no difference, we still impeded the flow :o


So yes, I hate slow moving vehicles... And Grey Nomads are some of the worst....

Sorry your mate deserved what he got. There is a law keep left unless overtaking applies on all deivided roads posted greater than 80kph and here sined 'keep left unless overtaking'.
Your mate deliberately agrivated another driver and contributed to road rage. If you were behind two slow vehicles taking up two lanes you wouls not like it either.
Keepin left on all divided roads is good road manners and helps traffic flow. Australians have very poor lane dicipline drive in continental Europe and you will notice the difference.

[Phred]

The Pacific Highway, the Newell Highway, and the Bruce Highway in the terrorist season are a sore trial to truckies, sales reps and others who travel frequently. The onset of cold weather, usually about late April, in the southern states brings out the caravans and the mobile homes, known to generations of truckies as "terrorists", a play on "tourists". Often long strings of them are sighted travelling at 80km/h or less on stretches with limits of 100-110 km/h. Few have the courtesy to look in their mirrors at the line of frustrated drivers of vehicles caught behind them and pull over to allow other traffic to get moving. This is why the regular road users loathe them with great passion.

As someone who is out there in a double doing 5-6000km a week i have to say that the caravan terrorists are nowhere as bad as they used to be. A bit of education in teaching how to get trucks past at caravan shows and in the media has done a world of good.
As for the speed thing the most dangerous time in my job- Hume Freeway between Benalla and Euroa around 2-3:00 am speed limited at 100kph good road bad time mind numbingly boring!!!
Peter

[Tombie]

yes mr tombie2 you were caught in perth at 0830, 0840 and 0850 on 3 seperate supernovas on the jperth-joondalup freeway doing less that the prescribed minimum of 80kph that will be $450 in fines and would normaly only be 6 demerit points but as its christmas and were on double demerit points just hand your license in.

But.. But... But... I sold THAT vehicle to Blknights Dad.... It wasnt me driving your honour!

:wasntme::angel::p

[Tombie]

Sorry your mate deserved what he got. There is a law keep left unless overtaking applies on all deivided roads posted greater than 80kph and here sined 'keep left unless overtaking'.
Your mate deliberately agrivated another driver and contributed to road rage. If you were behind two slow vehicles taking up two lanes you wouls not like it either.
Keepin left on all divided roads is good road manners and helps traffic flow. Australians have very poor lane dicipline drive in continental Europe and you will notice the difference.

My mate did hey? And I did also? Well OK...

BTW.. Back in those days there was no such Bull$hit called "Road Rage"

Considering the speed WE were doing and the speed the Porsche caught up to us, I'd say WE did the public a service by holding him back..
Something we did deliberately after discussing it on the CB between cars to slow the w@nker down...

As for keep left over 80.... I'm often the one in the right line to pass the slower cars.. Particularly when I was in Vic/Melbourne... They're so damn paranoid about Fines they seem to all sit 5-10k under the limit over there!

And I have driven Europe... Cant say they drive any better or worse....

I say bring in $3000 driver licensing like they have in certain countries..
Huge penalties for offences including mandatory "go to jail" times for serious stuff...

3rd time loser penalties for certain offences.. eg.. Jail, Car crushed, Banned from driving for life


And as a recent GOVERNMENT survey has discovered.. Our Nat Highways do NOT meet the MINIMUM safety rating required...

So until they do something.. Sue them.... Duty of Care :cool:
That will get them moving.......

[Tombie]

Ponder this one.....

Whats worse? (In your opinion)

170km/h in a 100km/h Zone?
or
95km/h in a 60km/h zone?
or
50km/h in a ROAD WORKS zone?

I sit back to see this with interest... This is not a trick question, rather a perception question....
Now back to the 170km/h one...
What is it about speed that everyone goes Ooh... No.. About?
Is 170km/h fast? Or is our driver training inadequate for those speeds?
Are our roads capable of it? Is a modern car safe at those speeds?
Whats worse? Fatigue over 4 hours at 110km/h or fatigue over 3.25 hours at 130km/h
You can imagine this goes around and around.....

Me, personally, although I havent done it for a long time...
I dont consider 200+ km/h fast - On the right surface, with good visibility all around (particularly oncoming) in the right automobile (a Landy doesnt meet this, Well a RRS might).

Many a time I crossed the Hay Plain at over $2.20 & I've
Done Perth --> Adelaide in 26 straight hours SOLO (you do the math) - No drugs were used either...

Better roads, better driver eduction, and lets remind all the morons out there.. A Drivers Licence is a Priveledge not a RIGHT... If you can't meet the requirement - You dont get a licence.....



Can you tell I'm bored at work tonight ?????

[CraigE]

Ponder this one.....

Whats worse? (In your opinion)

170km/h in a 100km/h Zone?
or
95km/h in a 60km/h zone?
or
50km/h in a ROAD WORKS zone?

I sit back to see this with interest... This is not a trick question, rather a perception question....
Now back to the 170km/h one...
What is it about speed that everyone goes Ooh... No.. About?
Is 170km/h fast? Or is our driver training inadequate for those speeds?
Are our roads capable of it? Is a modern car safe at those speeds?
Whats worse? Fatigue over 4 hours at 110km/h or fatigue over 3.25 hours at 130km/h
You can imagine this goes around and around.....

Me, personally, although I havent done it for a long time...
I dont consider 200+ km/h fast - On the right surface, with good visibility all around (particularly oncoming) in the right automobile (a Landy doesnt meet this, Well a RRS might).

Many a time I crossed the Hay Plain at over $2.20 & I've
Done Perth --> Adelaide in 26 straight hours SOLO (you do the math) - No drugs were used either...

Better roads, better driver eduction, and lets remind all the morons out there.. A Drivers Licence is a Priveledge not a RIGHT... If you can't meet the requirement - You dont get a licence.....



Can you tell I'm bored at work tonight ?????


They are all bad if done in an inapropriate way or area or by an incompetent person or while doing so you come across a person of a lesser ability and this is how road crashes occur (not accidents by any means).
Your own personal ability counts for absolutely nothing with a lot of other variables in play. Yes you will get away with it 99% of the time. Its the 1% that concerns me. And yes I have done some stupid things, but having seeing more and more of the results when the unexpected happen I have changed my methodology.
This is why we have road rules, so every one can generally get from point A to point B in a relativelly safe manner if we all play by the same rules. Arrogance leads people to think they do not have to ply by the same rules or are exempt and in turn this leads to them or others they intertwine with becoming statistics.
Food for thought.
;)

[Jason789]

Lift the country speed limit to 160 kmh on A grade country roads(freeway type dual lane etc). 100-110 kmh is dangerous over long distances, as there is lack of concentration needed to drive at this speed( you can have a cup of tea and play a game of monopoly).
In England you can drive on an 'A' class road past the police doing 150 kmh and they have the discretion to book you or not. This is based upon driving conditions i.e. if it is a fine sunny day with no wind and little traffic, you can go faster. If it is raining with congested traffic on the same piece of road, you should going much slower....to suit the conditions.
Doing 100 in a school zone is stupid, doing 140 on an open country road with no other traffic hurts nobody
Speed doesn't kill. Drivers who go beyond their car and own limits do.

[Bushie]

I think that just because someone is in no hurry (half their luck!) irrespective of who they are, that it isn't an excuse to hold up the traffic. Its just plain rude and frustrating for other road users and encourages less safe practices such as overtaking.

So the red "P" plater should be doing 120kph just so he doesn't hold YOU up.

We have to accept that there are all skill levels, different vehicles etc on the road that may not be able to move at a pace that does not impede traffic at some point.

Personally I don't think it would have been appropriate for this to be doing 100kph along the Golden Highway, and it did impede us along the way :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/01/782.jpg


Martyn

[Slunnie]

So the red "P" plater should be doing 120kph just so he doesn't hold YOU up.

We have to accept that there are all skill levels, different vehicles etc on the road that may not be able to move at a pace that does not impede traffic at some point.

Personally I don't think it would have been appropriate for this to be doing 100kph along the Golden Highway, and it did impede us along the way :)


Martyn
Jeez Bushie, thats an old thread you've pulled up.

A P-plater is limited, the truck pictured is probably incapable of reaching 100km/h and I'm not particularly fussed if behind a truck that cant do the limit because it is what it is.

A vehicle travelling at 80km/h on the highway because they are blissfully unaware, or are in no particular rush or a trying to save 0.5l/100km are rude, inconsiderate and a royal PITA. If a driver is incapable within himself or herself to drive at the posted limit in appropriate conditions then they shouldn't be on the road.

Here is my quote again as it hasnt been properly interpreted:

I think that just because someone is in no hurry (half their luck!) irrespective of who they are, that it isn't an excuse to hold up the traffic. Its just plain rude and frustrating for other road users and encourages less safe practices such as overtaking.

[Bushie]

You're right it is an old post that I've just spent probably half an hour trawling through, but you have to blame the post ahead of mine for putting it back on the list :eek::eek:.

Still stand by my argument that not everyone wants, or needs to be sitting on the speed limit. If there are passing opportunities and they don't actively prevent (as in Tombies side by side example) traffic from passing, then so be it.


Martyn

[Tank]

The law aside and not trying to justify his behaviour but, as speeding is a contributing factor in only 5% of all accidents, why are cops or more fairly, the governments taking such a hard line on speeders, confiscating their vehicles while drunks get nothing more than a fine, yet drink driving accounts for 25% of all accidents.
To justify the billions of dollars collected by State and Federal Govts. in the form of Speeding fines, the last figure I read on cause of road death had speeding at 0.8%, (published in Wheels Magazine from ABS).
Point in case, when the speed limit was dropped in urban areas to 40 and 50 klm/h the death rate for road fatalaties (Urban area)rose 12%.
Biggest cause of road death in Australia is "Inattention", Regards Frank.

[series3]

I think that just because someone is in no hurry (half their luck!) irrespective of who they are, that it isn't an excuse to hold up the traffic. Its just plain rude and frustrating for other road users and encourages less safe practices such as overtaking.


I'm guessing you're not fond of ending up behind a series landy on the highway Slunnie..

[CaverD3]

I guess like the truck they can't help it. :D

I learnt to drive in a Series 1. :angel: