county and defender whats the difference?

[2keen]

this is prob a stupid question but whats the difference between a county and a defender, what years did they change and how much and how rare are county diesels as i'm after a diesel county or defender.

[long stroke]

County's came out with the 3.5ltr rover v8 and the 3.9ltr isuzu deisel (found in the army 110s)
County's were first introduced around 1984 and the defender took over in around 1990 (someone else will know for shore;))
The defenders first came out with the 2.5ltr 200tdi turbo intercooled deisel with drum brakes on the rear (i think) then shortly after that they changed over to the 300tdi and added a disc brake rear end somewhere there;)


CHEERS TIM.

[Phoenix]

A diesel defender will be cheaper than a diesel 110 county as they are quite sought after.

same basic body, but the 110 county had carpet.

suspenstion as a few minor changes, and there is different gearboxes etc. chassis rails are different as well I believe.

[foz.in.oz]

Counties are in fact 110s or Defender and are both the same basic vehicle. The county is a higher than standard trim level. In the UK there are several trim levels offered, whereas here there have only been one or two offered at any time.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yes it is a year model thing but have no idea about which years the changeover happened. In Australia the diesel engine in a County is usually an Isuzu 4BD1, a heavy and noisy unit but very desirable by coiler Land Rover enthusiasts.

The early Countys had drum brake rears and an LT95 4 speed gearbox (same as early Range Rover) the later ones lost the ribs in the roof changed the door handles from the series design to a push button handle, and the LT85 5 speed gearbox (Spanish Santana box)/LT230 transfer box.

Look out for rust in the chassis and firewall of any County.

[Bearman]

Yes it is a year model thing but have no idea about which years the changeover happened. In Australia the diesel engine in a County is usually an Isuzu 4BD1, a heavy and noisy unit but very desirable by coiler Land Rover enthusiasts.

The early Countys had drum brake rears and an LT95 4 speed gearbox (same as early Range Rover) the later ones lost the ribs in the roof changed the door handles from the series design to a push button handle. Disk brakes all round, and the LT85 5 speed gearbox (Spanish Santana box)/LT230 transfer box.

Look out for rust in the chassis and firewall of any County.

Ditto, also the door frames are prone to rust in the bottom

[UncleHo]

G'day 2keen :)

The coil sprung Landrover when reintroduced into Australia in 1983 was badged as Landrover 110, and marketed as the "County" with body side stripes, it was available as a 3.5 litre carbied V8 and a 3.9 litre Izuzu Diesel, with 4 speed manual transmission (LT95) in 1985 that transmission was replaced by the 5 speed Santana (LT85) in both Petrol and Diesel,that vehicle remained badged as the "County" in 1989 (UK) 1990 (Aust) the name was changed to "Defender" the Izuzu Diesel was replaced by the "200 TDI" diesel and the V8 was dropped from the Australian lineup,or only by special order,(The "Defender" name was a Landrover marketing move as the "Discovery" was launched in 1989,[1991 Aust] so all vehicles then had model names,Defender,Discovery,Range,Rover). the interior fittments were not changed to any great extent up until the 2007 model, the UK factory fitted AirCon leaves a lot to be desired in it's capability, the after market Aust fitted A/c sits under the dash in the passenger foot well was far better, it also still has the fresh air vents, which the factory A/c vehicles do not have, the 200TDI motor was replaced by the "300TDI" and in the mid/late 90's rear disc brakes were fitted, they all have a very good towing capability, and the best thing is that they have a "Timeless" appearance, as the exterior body looks very like a 1959 through 2006 model vehicle also there are body parts that will fit from these vehicle (i.e.doors are interchangeable) they are the ultimate recyclable vehicle:D


cheers

[rijidij]

The earliest County you are likely to see in Aus would be 1983 and the latest 1990. The most common seems to be the 1985 model, maybe they sold the most that year.
Some things have improved on the Defender, but some things aren't as good.
For example, the Countys have much stronger CV's and the wheel bearings are spaced wider (who knows why they would change that)
Most Defenders have 4 wheel discs, but Countys have rear drums.
The Isuzu Diesel is a bigger 3.9 litre engine and is super reliable and simple enough for 'most' to work on themselves. The Defender has a 2.5/2.4 litre diesel, either the 200Tdi, 300Tdi, Td5 or the new 2.4L in the latest one. The Tdi's are still reasonably simple to work on, the Td5 has a lot more electronics. Someone else can comment on the 2.4 as I don't know much about it yet.
Up to late '85 the County had the stronger Lt95 4 speed box.
Most Isuzu County owner's tend to hang onto them, so they're not easy to come by, but having said that, they do occasionally come up on Ebay etc and for one in ok to excellent condition range from about $7k to $27k (although sometimes unrealistic prices are asked for them)

Cheers, Murray

[JDNSW]

1. County is a trim level for Landrovers, used with Series 3, 90/110 and Rangerover, possibly other models.

2. The term "County" is often misused to describe Landrover 110s in Australia before the name "Defender" was introduced. (The pre-Defender 90 was never sold in Australia.)

3. The 110 was introduced in 1983 and came to Australia about 1984. It was a coil sprung replacement for the Series 3 109.

4. In Australia the 110 was sold only as County trim level wagon, cab/chassis, hardtop (with windows), and 6x6 cab/chassis. The cab/chassis was replaced early in production by a locally stretched version of 120" wheelbase. Some 120" wheelbase ones were fitted with extended cabs.

5. All versions of the 4x4 came with either the 3.5 V8 or the Isuzu 4BD1. The 6x6 came with the Isuzu 4BD1T only. The 2.25 and 2.5 petrol and diesel four cylinder engines were never sold in Australia in the 110, although a few have been privately imported.

6. With the introduction of the Discovery to Australia in 1990, the 110 ceased to be sold here. About two years later it was reintroduced, having by then acquired the "Defender" name, and sold only with the new 200Tdi engine introduced for the Discovery. Since then it has been progressively developed, and the differences between a 1989 110 and a 1992 Defender are much less than the differences between a 1992 Defender and a 2009 Defender, but they vehicle remains basically the same as that introduced in 1983, and many parts are interchangeable. Since 1992 the variety of models sold here has varied, but have usually included the 110 wagon and 130 dual cab. The 90 was only sold for a brief period and they are quite rare.

John

6.

[slug_burner]

Other differences

110 in County trim have galvanised coloured capping where defender's capping is colour coded.

I am told that Defenders have thinner panels? not sure about this one but perhaps they need to be thcker to withstand the vibrations from the isuzu:D

Defenders at least the 300Tdi (94 0nwards) have 24 spline rear axles (don't know about the 200 Tdi) whereas 110 County have 10 spline, 24 spline reputed to be better than 10.

From the county 110 to defender they changed to hub seals where the county ran in oil the defender ran greased bearings. Many people change the defender seal to county seals to reverse this change as it is thought that oiled bearings are better.

Other things already covered a/c, rear discs

between the 200 Tdi and 300 Tdi the 300 has the better R380 instead of the LT77 gear box.

[JDNSW]

Other differences

110 in County trim have galvanised coloured capping where defender's capping is colour coded.

I am told that Defenders have thinner panels? not sure about this one but perhaps they need to be thcker to withstand the vibrations from the isuzu:D

Defenders at least the 300Tdi (94 0nwards) have 24 spline rear axles (don't know about the 200 Tdi) whereas 110 County have 10 spline, 24 spline reputed to be better than 10.

From the county 110 to defender they changed to hub seals where the county ran in oil the defender ran greased bearings. Many people change the defender seal to county seals to reverse this change as it is thought that oiled bearings are better.

Other things already covered a/c, rear discs

between the 200 Tdi and 300 Tdi the 300 has the better R380 instead of the LT77 gear box.

Most of these changes you and others above list did not happen with the the change from "County" to Defender. For example, the push button door locks and the galvanised trim change were before the Defender name and the rear wheel discs and grease lubricated wheel bearings after the change (and not at the same time).

I don't know if panel thickness has changed, but it would not have been for the benefit of the Isuzu - their body is identical to the V8.

The point is there has been continuous development of the vehicle since 1983, and the change from "County" to Defender is no more significant than any other changes made in the last twenty-five years, and less than some. It stands out as more of a break because there was about a two year hiatus when the Defender was not sold here.

John

[rick130]

<snip>
The point is there has been continuous development of the vehicle since 1983,
<snip>
John

What's the grammatically correct word for the opposite to 'development' that explains what has happened since about 1990 ? :D

[foz.in.oz]

remained undeveloped

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> ... I don't know if panel thickness has changed, but it would not have been for the benefit of the Isuzu - their body is identical to the V8.

The point is there has been continuous development of the vehicle since 1983, and the change from "County" to Defender is no more significant than any other changes made in the last twenty-five years, and less than some. It stands out as more of a break because there was about a two year hiatus when the Defender was not sold here.

JohnSome people may be tempted to snipe that rather than development many of the changes have been regression. i.e. ungalvanised cappings which now rust.

In regard to the panels, comparing the panels over many year models the metal thickness seems similar. What is obvious however is that the resistance to bending and denting has "regressed" which would indicate that the change has been in the metal itself. The natural assumption is that the amount of magnesium in the aluminium alloy may have been reduced or it may well now be pure aluminium a much softer (and cheaper) metal than AlMg.

Diana

[JDNSW]

What's the grammatically correct word for the opposite to 'development' that explains what has happened since about 1990 ? :D

Regression, as Diana says, is the word you are looking for. Some of the changes have been improvements - I'll think of one in a moment. Most of the changes have been to make the vehicle more like its competitors, to reduce manufacturing costs by becoming more common with other products, changed manufacturing methods, take advantage of new developments - but probably most significant, a loss of vision as to what it is really being built for.

John

[dullbird]

don't know about here but the UK TD's came before the TDI's (or at least I'm pretty sure they did)
and I also believe that they were called 110's and 90's before they were given the name defender......I think the defender may of come around early 92 our 90 is a defender but another guy who used to be on here who imported his 90 it was just a 90 plain and simple wasn't young enough to be a defender

[Lotz-A-Landies]

don't know about here but the UK TD's came before the TDI's (or at least I'm pretty sure they did)
and I also believe that they were called 110's and 90's before they were given the name defender......I think the defender may of come around early 92 our 90 is a defender but another guy who used to be on here who imported his 90 it was just a 90 plain and simple wasn't young enough to be a defenderDB in the UK the TD did come before the TDi but in Oz the TD didn't make it as we had the locally produced 4BD1 with a few 4BD1-Ts so we went from 4BD1 to 200TDi.

[JDNSW]

don't know about here but the UK TD's came before the TDI's (or at least I'm pretty sure they did)
and I also believe that they were called 110's and 90's before they were given the name defender......I think the defender may of come around early 92 our 90 is a defender but another guy who used to be on here who imported his 90 it was just a 90 plain and simple wasn't young enough to be a defender

As mentioned above, the Defender name change was introduced at the same time as the Discovery (1989 in the UK, 1990 here from memory), and was simply so that the Landrover name, previously used for the Series/90/110, could be used for the Discovery (and Rangerover), upgrading it from a model name to a company name. This coincided with the 200Tdi engine which came with the Discovery.

In other markets the TD engine was an option from about 1986, but the four cylinder Rover engines, including this, were never fitted to any coil sprung Landrovers sold in Australia until the 200Tdi. With the introduction of the Tdi, the V8 and the petrol four became special order items in the UK and the V8 became unavailable in Australia. (The majority of 110s sold by 1990 were Isuzu powered, although the V8 was quite common earlier.)

While talking about these engines, it is worth noting that the Isuzu 4BD1 first appeared in Landrovers as an option (Australia only) in the Series 3 Stage 1 in place of the V8.

John

[2keen]

jesus what a brain over load i think you all totally answered my question damn yous know your stuff, thanks for all the replies good stuff cheers.

[abaddonxi]

<snippo>

(The majority of 110s sold by 1990 were Isuzu powered, although the V8 was quite common earlier.)

<snippo>
John

I wouldn't know, but if that's the case, what's happened to them all? I see way more V8s for sale than Isuzus.

I guess they're all being hoarded by their original owners. You couldn't imagine that many of them had died.

Simon

[JDNSW]

I wouldn't know, but if that's the case, what's happened to them all? I see way more V8s for sale than Isuzus.

I guess they're all being hoarded by their original owners. You couldn't imagine that many of them had died.

Simon

I think you have answered your own question in part, although many of the current hoarders would be those who bought them at relatively low mileage (like myself in 1993) - but also it is likely that in fact quite a few did die - in the late 1980s Landrovers were still being used quite commonly by miners and other commercial operators (all would have been diesel), and quite a few of these were run into the ground - or wrapped round trees etc. (this is probably the fate with most of the 6x6s) Also, quite a few were bought by farmers, and these are probably still mostly in use either with original owners or near neighbours.

V8s tended to be more commonly bought by city dwellers and not worked as hard, hence more long lived, and also, particularly with the high fuel prices recently, the same ones tend to come on the market fairly often.

John