Children mauled by dogs.

[loanrangie]

Yet another child dies after being mauled by dogs, i heard the news yesterday and read the article today and felt sick to my stomach. When will people learn that large (sometimes dangerous) dogs and children do not mix. The answer is not banning all so called dangerous breeds but maybe banning the dangerous breed humans (bogans/ferals) from owning such animals. The pic in the paper is all you need to see, a high mesh fence like woomera detention center is a white trash siren in my book.
The children were at a friends house to be looked after, how could you live with yourself if a child in your care was mauled by your dogs at your home- i just thought of my 2 girls and the poor little 3yo that died and wanted to cry.

Thats my sooky rant for the day :(.

[Shonky]

I'm with you mate - don't ban the dog ban the bloody owner. :mad:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm with you mate - don't ban the dog ban the bloody owner. :mad:
The owner was also injured in the attack when she went to help the children (she was babysitting them at the time).

The dogs were cross-breed bull-mastiffs, a breed that should never be left alone with children and always treated with suspicion.

The pack have all been euthanised Killer dogs put down - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/08/2461548.htm'section=justin)

I do know of 3 very cute pure-bred Pug puppies that could replace the bull mastiffs though.

[incisor]

x 3

what a terrible thing to have to try and live with..

[incisor]

The dogs were cross-breed bull-mastiffs, a breed that should never be left alone with children and always treated with suspicion.

dogs are pack animals and behave differently when there is more than one.

several kids and a few dogs dont mix unless there is an adult constantly supervising and even then it needs to be a capable adult..

most people would have problems handling 3 foxies when enraged much less 3 mastifs on the boil....

madness

[d@rk51d3]

Left home on Monday night, and 3 doors down from me I see a cluster of dogs playing........


......As I get closer, we see that they aren't playing, and 1 is a pitt-bull, tearing up someones little terrier.:(

Anyhow, if it was male, it aint anymore. ;)

1 Full kick and and it's airborne accross the yard with mashed spuds, and took off into someones back yard.


Scary thing is, you know now it has a taste for blood. There are at least a dozen young kids living in the street (3 of them mine), and the owner seems unable to contain his/her animal.

I'm probably lucky I was driving the plastic work vehicle. If I was in the rangie, there'd be some pit-bull roadkill.:mad:

[Xavie]

It's very sad for everyone I think. The owner must just want to kill herself after that.

But, I do beleive it is the cost of people owning dogs and most of the time we are probably lucky their are not more incidents.

[DiscoTDI]

Before everyone poo poos the Bull Mastiff breed, please read the following and most importantly what is at the end

Temperament

A Bullmastiff is fearless and confident, yet docile. A Bullmastiff is courageous, extremely loyal to its family, calm, and loving. It has a very strong protective instinct and will defend against any threat to its owners, as well as any threat to its territory. However, a Bullmastiff does not attack to protect. Instead, a Bullmastiff will simply stand in front of an intruder and refuse to let them pass. If they try to pass, it will knock them over with its massive size and pin them to the ground or against a wall or fence. Bullmastiffs become intensely attached to their families. Their protective instinct combined with their great size and natural wariness of strangers means that early socialization is a must. Generally Bullmastiffs do not get along well with other dogs, because of their instinct to be dominant. A male Bullmastiff should not live with another male dog. Bitches in heat should not be taken on walks, because other dogs will be attracted to them, and they will not like it. The Bullmastiff gets along extremely well with children and is very loving towards them. Parental supervision must be maintained when they are with children; they may knock smaller children down accidentally because of their large size. A Bullmastiff, because of its history, is a very independent dog, and likes to make its own decision. However, with good training, a Bullmastiff will look to its owner for "permission" to act on its instincts. Dominance must be established over a Bullmastiff as soon as possible; a human cannot live with a Bullmastiff that is dominant over them. A Bullmastiff owner has to be very determined because Bullmastiffs are very determined dogs, and in order to be dominant, an owner must be more determined and persistent than the Bullmastiff.

In January 2009, in Whitton, Australia,it has been rumored that four bull mastiff dogs killed a 3 year old child and disfigured the face of another child while the dog's owner was babysitting the children in her home. SEE ARTICLE: Child, 3, dies in dog attack in Whitton, NSW (http://www.theage.com.au/national/child-3-dies-in-dog-attack-20090107-7bmi.html?page=1). A neighbor stated that possibly ONE dog may have been a bull mastiff cross breed. No further information was given stating weather or not the dogs in fact were Bull Mastiffs. The article does state that there were "four mixed breed dogs" and that the dog that attacked the children was a "...big, yellow dog".


Never confuse mongrels bred for hunting with Bull Mastiff's, I have a bull Mastiff x Boxer and even though I will not leave my kids alone with it, I trust it more than I would most other dogs.

I feel sorry for the family and cant imagine what the poor person is going through who was babysitting, but cannot forgive leaving a 3yo with such dogs.:mad:

Sorry for the plug but I do not believe this breed should cop the bad media it does:angel:

[DiscoTDI]

I am waiting for my neighbour to be on the news, they think I am a so and so for not letting my kids play over there anymore, but their dog has bitten me and has snapped at my eldest daughter. The excuse was the dog was snapping a flies and my daughter got in the way, My daughter was more shocked than hurt, so I left it at that. I have been told I am over reacting but the dog is crossed with breeds I am sure dont exist but I will not put my kids in harms way and I value the life of my kids over a friendship with my neighbour.

[Reads90]

I'm with you mate - don't ban the dog ban the bloody owner. :mad:

Totally agree, we have 2 Huskies and we did alot of training for our dogs for when our son was coming along. We still give them training and they are great with josh but would not let him and them together for a second with out us there at arms reach .

[loanrangie]

Thats why i said banning a so called dangerous breed is not the answer as even a jack russel could become dangerous if incorrectly handled, but no large dog breed should be left with children as the damage they can inflict is likely fatal as opposed to a gash here or there.

[chook]

I dont think that blame should be laid on a particular breed or mixed breed dog's and I dont think that children should be left alone with any dog. I have 3 and 5 year old sons and we own a king charles cav, the dog is still only a pup and great with the kids however we still dont allow the boys to go out the back with the dog alone (more for the dogs protection than the boy's, just kidding). Kids dont now the signs of when a dog is getting upset and sometimes dogs can lash out on instinct, neither the child or the dog are should be blamed if a situation like a dog attack occurs (particularly in somebody's back yard). Adults either parents or babysitters ect should be taking responsibility for the care of both the kids and the animals in their care. If this occured I think we would see far less attacks on young kids.

[Santana]

A bull mastiff savaged my dog in front of me a few months ago. We were walking on the main road on a leash and this dog jumped the fence of its property to come after my Jack Russell. He went for a kill and I got bitten separating them. My dog ended up having emergency surgery with its guts ripped apart and has since made a complete recovery. The owners of the mastiff voluntarily euthanased their dog and got fined $500. Some breeds have an innate predisposition and have a very poor socialization history , left in a backyard all day without much to do but hunt.
There are some genes hidden in mastiff/pit bull crosses, they are over-represented in cases of savaging attacks on dogs and people. Just like JRT have a hidden gene for hunting birds, some large breeds have evolved to savage small prey.
A well socialized dog, from a very early age, can completely prevent this problems, but leaving dogs in a back yard is no way of socializing, boredom is a very powerful trigger for a bit of hunting diversion.
Gene selection for good temperament is carried out by responsible breeders, but backyard breeding is the scourge.
Incidentally I am now tempted to carry pepper spray when walking in public with my dog.

[lardy]

It completely hacks me off this media hysteria 'demon dogs' etc dogs are a pack animal sure enough but if you are not top dog and or have fear of that dog (making it uncontrollable ) then you should not have the animal.
My brother has two english staffies great dogs, real members of the family the most offensive things they do is fart alot and bite your shoe laces in order that you don't leave them.
Previously my brother had a rescue staffy that had been fought beautiful dog one day he took exception to my nieces friend getting in the back of the van with him and my niece, snapped an inch from her face, so being a responsible owner(my brother) he went for a short drive to the vet and didn't come home with the dog, behavour out of character can't be chanced you are doing the dog a dis-service and the greater community if you think with your heart not your head, dont get me wrong my brother and his wife were gutted about it.
I have an American staffy that is two she is a sook but is controlled by voice commands does what she is supossed to do.
she will watch the house for us when out and loves cuddles when we are in.
I recently went to the shops with her and was told she was a pit bull by some **** of a pommy chick who knows nothing about dogs i was impressed heaps ...not!
The thing is if we are blessed with kids (traumatised more like) there is no way you would leave a dog loaded at the front end, with a kid made of soft stuff you would have to be f...ed !!
This chick with the mastiff things she spossed to be a real animal lover so her dogs may have well had there nose put out of joint because everytime the kids come over they were no longer getting attention, recent reports show dogs suffer from jealousy (like anyone who has ever owned one would know)remember it was a pack of 5, 4 dogs and the owner.
the other angle is the kids harrassed the dogs like kids do she had no kids of her own what is the dogs experience of kids ?
And to close it's beautiful the way the press can always manage to get the word 'pitbull' in there somewhere even if the dogs are of undefined breeding ...great work

[Shonky]

Good on the owner for at least trying to do something during the attack, but as harsh as it sounds, too little too late.

4 big dogs in one small backyard with two tasty little kids?

Disaster waiting to happen, and no doubt a long time in the making - likely the result of a lifestyle cultivated long before the children were even born. :(

[lardy]

Incidentally I am now tempted to carry pepper spray when walking in public with my dog.[/QUOTE]

get a 12 bore might as well cut out the middle man and save the other owner the vet bill .....don't matter the breed without input the dog is a blank canvas and resorts to primary instincts doesn't have to be about the breed i have met some viscous greasy little ****s of yorkshire terriers so should they be out bred ......you just cant tell is the point, you just gotta be a good responsable owner at the end of the day if you see any sign nip it in the bud.

As for jackies my dad had two first one was an excellent dog great mouser, the other one must have been dropped on his head he used to nip your heels and one day had a go at my dad ran past him and never came back lol

[Xavie]

I was always taught by dog trainers that some breeds are more agressive then others and more dangerous to humans no matter how well they are trained and who owns them as it can come down to instinct.

I think it is interesting to see that people who own these breeds don't agree.

It always amuses me when I see people getting terriers which have been bred for decades due to their hunting capabilities yet when they nip a family member people are suprised... I mean wth is with that? Sometimes I wonder if the human ego makes people think that because they take great care and give lots of love to their animals they will not have any instinctual ability left.

[lardy]

[QUOTE= The pic in the paper is all you need to see, a high mesh fence like woomera detention center is a white trash siren in my book.
The children were at a friends
...surely the fence shows the owner is being responsible to keep the dogs on her property ?
though i must admit the mesh looked a bit bite size to me ?

[solmanic]

...dogs are a pack animal sure enough but if you are not top dog and or have fear of that dog (making it uncontrollable ) then you should not have the animal.

Absolutely! There is no way a kid (certainly not a toddler) can take on the "pack leader" role unless they were personally involved in the dogs' training and discipline. Ergo, no kid is safe with any pack of dogs as they will invariably be tested by the dogs to see where they fit into the pecking order.

One of the first things we teach kids (and adults) unfamiliar with dogs who come to our house is to demonstrate dominance over our dog so he never, not for an instant, contemplates taking them down to assert his position. He is our only dog, so I just imagine what a pack might do (regardless of breed) if they get the idea that the newcomer should be bottom of the pecking order.

[lardy]

I was always taught by dog trainers that some breeds are more agressive then others and more dangerous to humans no matter how well they are trained and who owns them as it can come down to instinct.

I think it is interesting to see that people who own these breeds don't agree.

It always amuses me when I see people getting terriers which have been bred for decades due to their hunting capabilities yet when they nip a family member people are suprised... I mean wth is with that? Sometimes I wonder if the human ego makes people think that because they take great care and give lots of love to their animals they will not have any instinctual ability left.

so glad you are amused at this interesting but sad debate, nice to be of service.
I think you miss the point it really does not matter the breed any dog has potential weather it be my old mans jack russel going contrary in old age and buggering off or a german shepherd, people have to be prepared to be responsible at what ever the cost to the animal

[lardy]

Absolutely! There is no way a kid (certainly not a toddler) can take on the "pack leader" role unless they were personally involved in the dogs' training and discipline. Ergo, no kid is safe with any pack of dogs as they will invariably be tested by the dogs to see where they fit into the pecking order.

One of the first things we teach kids (and adults) unfamiliar with dogs who come to our house is to demonstrate dominance over our dog so he never, not for an instant, contemplates taking them down to assert his position. He is our only dog, so I just imagine what a pack might do (regardless of breed) if they get the idea that the newcomer should be bottom of the pecking order.

Good on ya common sense prevails you are spot on, for example when visitors are allowed on our property my dog is always excited to greet them and sometimes forgets herself and props her front paws on them for support in order to get a fuss, that is a perfect opportunity for me to instruct the person to make her sit and take control of her which calms her done and indicate that she is less in the order of things

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>... In January 2009, in Whitton, Australia,it has been rumored that four bull mastiff dogs killed a 3 year old child and disfigured the face of another child while the dog's owner was babysitting the children in her home. SEE ARTICLE: Child, 3, dies in dog attack in Whitton, NSW (http://www.theage.com.au/national/child-3-dies-in-dog-attack-20090107-7bmi.html?page=1). A neighbor stated that possibly ONE dog may have been a bull mastiff cross breed. No further information was given stating weather or not the dogs in fact were Bull Mastiffs. The article does state that there were "four mixed breed dogs" and that the dog that attacked the children was a "...big, yellow dog". ...<snip>
One can only go by the caption alongside the picture on the ABC online article on my earlier post. "The cross-breed bull mastiffs were put down this morning." There does not seem to be any ambiguity in the reference to breed.

Unfortunately even your reference to temperament suggests children, let alone non-family children, not being left alone with such a large dog with a potential to do serious damage.

It is all very tragic and terrible for all families involved, however there are some breeds and cross breeds of dog that have no place being family pets, lest it is to protect someones drug manufacturing plant or ego.

Diana

[lardy]

that is ambiguous how can you determine that the bull mastiff element of the dog was to blame ?
when there is at least 50% something else in the animal .....long legged pug maybe ?

why a large breed at 5 i tormented the hellout of my grandads 14 year old sheep dog under the table the dog was placid i kept pulling her tail, she snapped at me but i caused the reaction never went near it again lucky for me i was clued on 33 years ago

[DiscoTDI]

Unfortunately even your reference to temperament suggests children, let alone non-family children, not being left alone with such a large dog with a potential to do serious damage.



Diana



The Bull mastiff gets along extremely well with children and is very loving towards them. Parental supervision must be maintained when they are with children; they may knock smaller children down accidentally because of their large size.

Where does it say a potential to do serious damage, or is that an assumption?
And if we are assuming that the statment means more we had better not put our kids in a bed as a fall out of bed has the potential to do serious damage


Plus the quote from the media really does not have merit when it comes telling us precise details, for example in Townsville on new years day the cinema was evacuated due a "FIRE", in newspaper the next day it reported on how the brave fire fighters put out some small fires in the building. Now for the truth, I was having a BBQ with my mate and his pager went off calling him to work, he went to said cinema and a coolant pipe had burst in the aircon filling the place up with mist, he told the fire fighters which valves to turn off and then proceeded to fix the aircon. We know for a fact that there were no flames in that building and so did all media that night yet it makes for a better story. Same for dog attacks, Bull Mastiff sounds better than weird inbred mongrel. I am not doubting that the dog may have had Bull Mastiff in it but its the other breeds that are mixed in.

My point out of this is that way too much emphasis is put on the breed of dogs, no one reports how many children are taken to emergency because they have been bitten by a neurotic Terrier or Jack Russell. I have a Cavalier King Charles spaniel as well and even though I dont believe the dog has the ability to be mean let alone have the intelligence to breath doesn't mean I am complacent with it. More emphasis needs to be put on the owners to take responsibility for their animals.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Where does it say a potential to do serious damage, or is that an assumption?
And if we are assuming that the statment means more we had better not put our kids in a bed as a fall out of bed has the potential to do serious damage


If your quote "[COLOR="Navy"]Their protective instinct combined with their great size and natural wariness of strangers means that early socialization is a must. Generally Bullmastiffs do not get along well with other dogs, because of their instinct to be dominant. A male Bullmastiff should not live with another male dog. Bitches in heat should not be taken on walks, because other dogs will be attracted to them, and they will not like it. The Bullmastiff gets along extremely well with children and is very loving towards them. Parental supervision must be maintained when they are with children; they may knock smaller children down accidentally because of their large size. A Bullmastiff, because of its history, is a very independent dog, and likes to make its own decision. However, with good training, a Bullmastiff will look to its owner for "permission" to act on its instincts. Dominance must be established over a Bullmastiff as soon as possible; a human cannot live with a Bullmastiff that is dominant over them." with particular reference to the bold sections can not be paraphrased as "a potential to do serious damage" then you live on a different planet to me.

And yes a fall out of bed has the potential to do serious damage. That is why we put babies and infants into cots with sides and not into beds without sides.

Diana

[taff]

first up i'd like to say that i'm gutted to hear this news and my heart goes out to all involved.
we've got a couple of rotty's and i've grown up around this breed of dog but unfortunately the masses think that were also some kind of trashy nutter's with killer dogs.
yes most large dogs were initially bred for hunting but so were a lot of smaller breeds - just different size meals at the end.
if you speak to anyone that actually has or has had a so called nasty breed of dog then i'm sure that 99% of them will get quite defensive and tell you that your speaking a load of ****. this isn't because they're liars it's because they know what they're talking about cos they had real life experiences.
the media does nothing to help with peoples attitudes reporting these cases in the way that they do but unfortunately that's life.
if every dog attack was reported then i'm positive that these larger breed would be somewhere down the bottom of the list in regards to numbers.
it's a known fact that lab's bite more children than any other breed of dog.

"little dog" owners do my ****ing head in. it's always the little cute one that'll start the aggresive behaviour but nothing ever gets said cos you laugh it off. small dogs get away with a lot more aggresive behaviour because of their size.
i went to the vet with one of my rotty's two days ago and there was a little dog that wanted to "take mine on". luckily for that person mine are very placid and she ignored it and sat down - the owner of the other dog looked at me, laughed and said " your's would probably eat mine ". then off she went with a "c'mon, good boy". this is typical of "little dog" owners and make for a much nastier dog
as for the guy who kicked his neighbours dog in the nut's - i hope you never get a large breed of dog - cos you sound like the type of person who give the rest of us a bad name.
i aploogise to those with little dogs that are responsible dog owners but unfortunately the majority are not

this incident is unfortunate but lets not condemn what is essentially a beautiful calm dog. if you own or intend to own one exercise it regular and often, let them know your the pack leader and all of it's pentupness will dissipate. obviously don't leave them alone with children because if the children are winding up the dog then the results can be horrific -but it's still not the fault of the dog.

[DiscoTDI]

There are some genes hidden in mastiff/pit bull crosses, .

Bull Mastiff's are a cross between a Mastiff and an english bulldog
http://www.welcometothedoghouse.net/pics/english_bulldog_wallpaper.jpg
English bulldog

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1187.jpg
Mastiff

http://www.keetchs-irish-staffords.com/Types_of_Terriers/bullmastiff295x266.jpg
Bull Mastiff


Gotta tell you the though of crossing a pit bull with a mastiff is terrifying:)

[stevo68]

as for the guy who kicked his neighbours dog in the nut's - i hope you never get a large breed of dog - cos you sound like the type of person who give the rest of us a bad name.
i aploogise to those with little dogs that are responsible dog owners but unfortunately the majority are not Hey Taff, mate think thats a little unfair...the dog at hand was ripping another dog apart...I think a belt in the nuts was the least he could do. I have done the same when I malamute jumped our fence and went toe to toe with my shepherd...he didnt really need a hand but by all tokens wasnt going to risk any more damage and that malamute copped a steel capped boot in the nads and guts..it quickly retreated,

Regards

Stevo

[DiscoTDI]

If your quote "Their protective instinct combined with their great size and natural wariness of strangers means that early socialization is a must. Generally Bullmastiffs do not get along well with other dogs, because of their instinct to be dominant. A male Bullmastiff should not live with another male dog. Bitches in heat should not be taken on walks, because other dogs will be attracted to them, and they will not like it. The Bullmastiff gets along extremely well with children and is very loving towards them. Parental supervision must be maintained when they are with children; they may knock smaller children down accidentally because of their large size. A Bullmastiff, because of its history, is a very independent dog, and likes to make its own decision. However, with good training, a Bullmastiff will look to its owner for "permission" to act on its instincts. Dominance must be established over a Bullmastiff as soon as possible; a human cannot live with a Bullmastiff that is dominant over them." with particular reference to the bold sections can not be paraphrased as "a potential to do serious damage" then you live on a different planet to me.

And yes a fall out of bed has the potential to do serious damage. That is why we put babies and infants into cots with sides and not into beds without sides.

Diana


I obviously live on a different planet because I like to read the whole story not just the highlighted parts.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Don't get me wrong I love dogs and I love many breeds of dogs, particularly the working breeds when they are used as working dogs. Kelpies and Border collies are particular favourates of mine. And yes I do have Pugs, but because my house mate loves Pugs, (I always thought they are a stupid breed).

However that has nothing to do with the current situation, I work in a children's hospital and decades of my experience have been in emergency departments or intensive care units and I have seen a lot of serious injuries caused by dogs.

None of the serious injuries have been caused by small breeds of dog.

The serious injuries (read: life threatening or major disfiguring injuries) have always been caused by large breeds: Rotweilers, Pit Bulls, Alsatians, Blue Heelers etc.

Children, should not be left unsupervised with large breeds of dogs, a child may approach a dog in an unfamiliar way, the dog snaps and the child gets bitten or knocked over. The child will then cry and this is confusing to the dog who may then attack the thing that is confusing to the dog, the other dogs join in and we end up in this terrible scenario where 3 or 4 dogs are euthanised.

These were most likely very friendly and passive animals. They always were, in each and every case where I have had direct contact with the injured child and frequently the dogs owner.

Diana

P.S. I am also a member of the Royal NSW Canine Council and consider myself a responsible dog owner.

[Dmmos]

"little dog" owners do my ****ing head in. it's always the little cute one that'll start the aggresive behaviour but nothing ever gets said cos you laugh it off. small dogs get away with a lot more aggresive behaviour because of their size.

lol - very true... I've got nothing against small dog owners, but most of the small dogs I come across (w/ my Great Dane - avatar) go bloody mental.

Firstly, this was a terrible story...

Secondly, I have two nephews (a 2 year old & a 5 year old) and it's funny how different even brothers are with animals. The 2 year old will sleep on top of our Great Dane for hours, while the 5 year old couldn't care less about any of them. If you look after children & dogs and know them well, it's obvious which ones you do let & don't let mix (based on their personalities). While I admit to not knowing the full story (re. this particular tragedy), it appears that the news networks got it right for once - the comment about the 'Woomera' fence was also spot on.

[EchiDna]

geez we can get off topic can't we? :)

It's a tragic story yes, but the big thing IMHO is that by far the majority of large breed dog owners get their dogs for protection - either of their house or their workplace or for pigging etc. Not many get them as a family pet without wanting at least an element of perceived security or protection thrown in. Thus, if you are part of the pack (i.e. part of the family living in the same house) then you can hope to be protected, but if you are outside that group, you can expect to be tested out by the dog/s at some point. All breeds are bred to either kill, retreive or control movement of stock- we all know that, it's just many don't accept it.

I doubt even the most responsible purebred breeders maintain a bloodline of family pets and a bloodline for security work - they are one and the same and they have a vested interest in making a sale of their pups...

If you must have a big dog, buy a retreiver/pointer type, not a guard/fighting dog for a house with kids in it.

[tony]

Its not the dogs fault, dogs are dogs, some are bred to be lap dogs some are bred to hunt.

In any dog attack it's the owner's fault not the dogs, personally I think 9 times out of 10 the owner should be put down.

I have owned a yorkshirre terrier, staffy, english bull terrier and 2 shepherds the most vicious of them all was the yorkey...he'd bite you for fun, my son was just a baby when we had the bulley, and no word of a lie the boy could do
anything to him poke him in the eyes pull his ears and tail and all the bulley would do was rolll over for a tummy tickle... that was until one day, the boy was out the back yard in his pram, the bulley was doing his normal laying at the bottom of the boy's feet at the pram, and the next door neighbour decided to jump the back fence to play a visit to my ex. Well, she never jumped the back fence again. The missus said as she got close to the pram, the hair on the back of the bulley just stood and the growl was something out of this world. The poor woman wouldn't move backwards or forwards until the missus came out and told the dog to sit. That created a bit of palava until I turned round and said she shouldn't have jumped the back fence.

One of the Shepherds baled a next door neighbour up where we live now. Had him rounded up well and truly. The only problem was, he was in my front yard, and so was my dog, and the dog had a right to be there and he didn't. So he was told where to go as well.

As I said in the beginning, dogs will be dogs. It's the owners that are to blame not the dogs. It fair gives me the poopies when people go on about savage dogs. It's not the bloody dog's fault, it's their owners.

Tony

[Chenz]

I have been around dogs all my life from Labradors, pointers setters and a variety of pig dogs with various backgrounds and cross breeds from danes to bull terriers and cattle dogs.

The point is they are dogs and get treated as such with respect and caution. The problem these days, and it can be seen every night while watching the pet ads on TV is that people have apportioned human characteristics to dogs. "He is one of the family", "He sleeps with us in our bed", "Only the pedigree balanced nutritional brand food for my dog".

In the end a dog is a dog is a dog. I have loved them all but I draw the line at giving them more rights than people. In my line of work as a park manager, I have to provide leash free parks where the dog owners now have a go at other park users as they see it is their right to let Poopsie do what ever it likes even if that means having a go at kids in the park. They think that is OK and it is the little terrier and foxy owners who are the worst and ill behaved - just like their owners.

The death of that toodler is reminder that dogs can be aggressive and that if you take them for granted they can literally turn around and bite you.

A group of aggressive big dogs like cross bred pig dogs have no place being around small children - especially ones that are not familiar to them.

[Hucksta]

Oooohhh, this made me sick man. I read the article and all I could see was those poor little kids being flung around like rag dolls by those dogs. Then in the story it says that the little baby (I think 18 months old) was seen trying to crawl away from them, man I nearly bloody cried.:(:(:(

Now, I'll stand corrected here, but did I read it right in the article that the attack happened inside the house ... WTF ... how the hell did those kids end up in the house on their own and how did those damn dogs have access to the damn house. Also, did I read it right that the owners had to force open a door to get to the kids ... WTF ... what sort of set up were they running.:mad::mad::mad:

All dogs are capable of biting people, that is a fact, it is just that some dogs are worse than others, you do not have to be Sherlock Holmes to know that. I can tell you right now, there is abolutely not a snow flakes chance in hell that I would leave my beautiful kids (3yo and a new baby) with anyone who had a couple of dogs, let alone some mongrel bred things, not on your nelly. I'm glad the dogs got destroyed, I would have cut their heads off on the spot, the owner might at that time consider his geographical position and for his own health vanish.

Anyway, last night when I got home from work I checked on my kids, they were sleeping and looked so innocent. I watched them sleeping for a bit and I thought of those 2 kids and all i could think about was how much these little people rely on us and how much those little kids would have been looking for someone to save them. I know that I am not going to be able to protect them for every minute of the day but I'll make sure that I do everything in my power to minimise the dangers they are exposed too.

What a very sad sad thing ......:(:(

Jason

[Lotz-A-Landies]

An update on the animals. According to Leeton Council, the dogs were not put down, they died from being sedated after the attack and their obese state. Killer dogs died, not put down: council - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/08/2461739.htm'section=justin)

[Vern]

For those with dogs that would not leave there kids alone with them, why do you have them? These are your flesh and blood and being a parent there is no way in hell i would have a dog that i did not trust around my kids.
So the dogs got put down, big ****ing deal, what about the parents that lost their child, what happens to the stupid dog owners? they get a fine and loose their pet, they should get charged big time, its ****ing murder! No different to hitting someone with a car, or shooting someone. I just don't understand people trying to justify the animal:mad:


(this was not directed at anyone, just my opinion)

[Panda]

Typical media ... I find it hard to believe 3 dogs would all die on the same night from being sedated. Wouldn't be surprised it they were intentionally oversedated.



An update on the animals. According to Leeton Council, the dogs were not put down, they died from being sedated after the attack and their obese state. Killer dogs died, not put down: council - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/08/2461739.htm'section=justin)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

geez we can get off topic can't we? :)

<snip> ... I doubt even the most responsible purebred breeders maintain a bloodline of family pets and a bloodline for security work - they are one and the same and they have a vested interest in making a sale of their pups...

If you must have a big dog, buy a retreiver/pointer type, not a guard/fighting dog for a house with kids in it.
I have to agree with you, there are breeds of dog which are great for living with families and retreivers are some of those, and there are working dogs.

The dogs currently in my family are a breed that have been bred as lap dogs since ancient times in China and you can see it in their behaviour. Yes they get excited when "visitors" come around but as for biting "never". Although that said even a pug running towards a child to give them a 'kiss" can be frightening to the child and may even knock a young child off their feet.

A long time friend breeds and trains security dogs. She will not sell to anyone who doesn't have a security licence and a need for a security animal.

It is all in being a responsible animal owner and/or breeder, and having breeds appropriate to one's need.

[dullbird]

I have to agree with you, there are breeds of dog which are great for living with families and retreivers are some of those, and there are working dogs.

I know the dogs currently in my family are a breed that have been bred as lap dogs since ancient times in China and you can see it in their behavior. Yes they get excited when "visitors" come around but as for biting "never". Although that said even a pug running to wards a child to give them a 'kiss" can be frightening to the child and may even knock a young child off their feet.



I also have a long time friend who breeds security dogs. She will not sell to anyone who doesn't have a security licence and a need for a security animal.

It is all in being a responsible animal owner and/or breeder, and having breeds appropriate to one's need.

what makes a good security dog? aggression?
how do you get that aggression? does it get bred into them? do they take their best aggressive male and bread it with their best aggressive female to make a GOOD security dog?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

what makes a good security dog? aggression?
how do you get that aggression? does it get bred into them? do they take their best aggressive male and bread it with their best aggressive female to make a GOOD security dog?DB A good security dog needs to be intelligent and needs to obey commands immediately. There are breeds, usually hunting breeds, that are appropriate to security work and Alsatians and Rottys come to mind.

Breeding is usually from the animals that have demonstrated their intelligence and obedience. It helps that the animal looks and acts the part (intimidation of the would be thief etc). They should attack on command without mauling the offender and stop on command and that is the hard part. Once the animal is let go at an offender it's instincts may take over, if it wont stop and hold or heel on command then the animal is no good as a security dog.

So agression is a part of the breeding and training, but intelligence and obedience to the handler is more important.

[dullbird]

You know what I wrote about half a page in reply to your post diana as I am particually opposed to people that breed and train security dogs.....but alas I have deleted it.

But what I was going to get to is there are to many people in this world breading from aggressive dogs or dogs that show aggressive tendancies. don't get me wrong its not just security people that do this
I have a friend that used to train attack dogs so i'm not personally digging at your friend.......IMHO the more we bread and train dogs to be aggressive the more we are asking for situations like this to occur!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I hear your point, however I do agree that there must be a place for all sorts of working dogs. Too many people breed and train aggressive dogs on a pretext that they are dogs for security. I fully disagree with that.

My friend breeds and trains security dogs, she doesn't want them to be aggressive because they become too hard to handle. In fact she is quite slight in her build so a large aggressive dog would be too much for her to handle. Her needs and it is her business, is for well trained security dogs not dissimilar to police dogs but for use in the private security industry. It is very important that the dog can catch and detain an offender without harming them, as any injuries sustained by an offender are likely to result in a civil claim for injuries. That is not in the interests of my friend or her customers.

However a patrol officer with a dog are far more likely to apprehend and detain an offender than a patrol officer by themselves with or without a gun. Having a security dog in a patrol also protects the patrol officer from being attacked by offenders.

I would never recommend any of her dogs as family pets however and I think that this is the point of this thread.

[Siska]

I believe this situation is an absolute tragedy, and something that could have been easily avoided.

I own one of the 'dangerous' breeds that have been mentioned in the last 5 pages. I believe that way to many people here have brought in the media hype and sensationalism. They will do anything to make a sale. I really expected more from the Land Rover fraternity.

For those that like to generalize about dog breeds and attacks I think you need to go and read a book called "The Pit Bull Placebo" by Karen Delise. While this book was written in the U.S.A it gives you actual statistics that you can look up yourself about dog attacks right through to 2005. Most will be amazed at the actual statistics of dog attacks and how they are reported.

[dullbird]

I hear your point, however I do agree that there must be a place for all sorts of working dogs. Too many people breed and train aggressive dogs on a pretext that they are dogs for security. I fully disagree with that.

My friend breeds and trains security dogs, she doesn't want them to be aggressive because they become too hard to handle. In fact she is quite slight in her build so a large aggressive dog would be too much for her to handle. Her needs and it is her business, is for well trained security dogs not dissimilar to police dogs but for use in the private security industry. It is very important that the dog can catch and detain an offender without harming them, as any injuries sustained by an offender are likely to result in a civil claim for injuries. That is not in the interests of my friend or her customers.

However a patrol officer with a dog are far more likely to apprehend and detain an offender than a patrol officer by themselves with or without a gun.


I would never recommend any of her dogs as family pets however and I think that this is the point of this thread.

And I have been witness to these dogs getting into a normal family homes, because once they have done their job some are either left to rott in the yard (business yard I mean)

Or sold cheaply to unsuspecting, I dare say some uneducated and some that just feel guilty for the animal.

we often get people in with family's that come and kick kennel doors to see whether the dog barks at them and then tell us that they want it to protect the house or the kids or there business:mad:

I suppose I'm just trying to reiterate that a lot of the time it's not the dog but the circumstances in which they have been placed...

and as for the dogs have certain places, to a degree yes....but I don't think its as cut and dry as some people think

Boxers, Doberman, and Samoyed's are working dog breeds they are in there with the bull mastiffs the rottweilers the shepherds and these dogs are proven family dogs!!

a lot of these dogs have stigmas attached to them because we have taken them and placed them in situations that cause people to assume that they are bad.

In lew of this I would just like to say the best dogs I have ever worked with have been Pitballs they are unbelievably great with people! not so great with other dogs! but it is unfortunate for them that they as a breed got into the wrong hands

The worst and most unpredictable breed I have ever worked with is the Sharpei (a Chinese fighting dog originally) they are expressionless, suspicious and if not breed well quite aggressive yet still a favored family pet.........But I will also except there are nice ones out there too

like people said before I too believe to many people get caught up in media hype...still because of this you can guarantee that we will now get an influx of mastiff X's to the RSPCA....poor dogs that have been nothing but loyal family pets, the media said they are dangerous so it must be true.

These ones in question were but doesn't mean they all are

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The ones that I find have the saddest lives are the greyhounds. If they don't race well and win they are euthanised. And similarly for security dogs if the handler won't take them after their working lives they are put down and worse still are the dogs left in car wreckers and similar yards.

Diana

[dullbird]

The ones that I find have the saddest lives are the greyhounds. If they don't race well and win they are euthanised. And similarly for security dogs if the handler won't take them after their working lives they are put down and worse still are the dogs left in car wreckers and similar yards.

Diana

exactly my point a lot of the time Diana we induce these dogs to do horrible things and they are the ones that suffer for it(not in this case but generally), dogs aren't happy when they are aggressive they are lonely and generally will live a life of solitude not nice for something that is naturally a pack animal.

all the ones you state above are the ones we most see in cruelty cases:(

Still we are straying more from the topic, and the topic being very tradgic:(.....I feel for the family and their great loss not nice for any parent

[d@rk51d3]

We deal with the greyhound, and racehorse industry at work. Fortunately I haven't seen anything untoward yet.

But I don't doubt that it happens. Unfortunately, I fear most animals are treated as possesions, and live sad lonely lives.

[DiscoTDI]

like people said before I too believe to many people get caught up in media hype...still because of this you can guarantee that we will now get an influx of mastiff X's to the RSPCA....poor dogs that have been nothing but loyal family pets, the media said they are dangerous so it must be true.



Thats where I got my Bull Mastiff x from

[EchiDna]

I believe this situation is an absolute tragedy, and something that could have been easily avoided.

I own one of the 'dangerous' breeds that have been mentioned in the last 5 pages. I believe that way to many people here have brought in the media hype and sensationalism. They will do anything to make a sale. I really expected more from the Land Rover fraternity.

For those that like to generalize about dog breeds and attacks I think you need to go and read a book called "The Pit Bull Placebo" by Karen Delise. While this book was written in the U.S.A it gives you actual statistics that you can look up yourself about dog attacks right through to 2005. Most will be amazed at the actual statistics of dog attacks and how they are reported.

The easiest way to avoid the situation is to not have the dogs in the first place isn't it?

Anyway, not trying to start a fight, how about quoting us some of those statistics? if you have the book, share em... I'm happy to be corrected, but having buried many animals killed by various escaped family pets on too many occasions, I don't like your chances...

[Dmmos]

The easiest way to avoid the situation is to not have the dogs in the first place isn't it?

In fairness to the previous poster, isn't this like not having a RR because it's unreliable? (Sorry!) Or children because they're loud, dirty & expensive? While it would not suit some - obviously not everybody has a dog - others take on the cons because they benefit from the pros...

[Santana]

I believe this situation is an absolute tragedy, and something that could have been easily avoided.

I own one of the 'dangerous' breeds that have been mentioned in the last 5 pages. I believe that way to many people here have brought in the media hype and sensationalism. They will do anything to make a sale. I really expected more from the Land Rover fraternity.

.

Agreed, some dangerous breeds make excellent family pets, but for your family only. Would you be happy to take your dog to a crowded beach, the next AULRO barbecue, and let it mingle unsupervised with the friendly Land Rover Fraternity, their pets and their kids ?. If you would, congratulations.

The Land Rover fraternity might want to go camping with the family dog and share the campsite with another family and their dog without having to worry about what would happen, so if the bush-bashing Land Rover Fraternity chooses a dog that can be completely trusted in that environment, I'd say good choice :)

The last pit bull/ mastiff /cross ( to clarify, slash means slash, either or, not a cross of a pit bull and a mastiff :), to nearly kill a dog was up your way last weekend, lovely family pet, jumped the fence and removed part of the thoracic wall of a medium sized dog. The attacking dog was a great family pet that had never put a foot wrong, the attack happened in front of the owner's daughter who is now traumatized at seeing her own dogs heart beat, literally. Dog recovered $6000 later. I can give you stats for Perth and for northern Perth in particular, but you won't like them. A few breeds are over-represented in the category of dogs that go for a kill: pit bulls, mastiffs and malamutes and their crosses (ie not pure bred).
The rest of dogs that have a fight bite and inflict bite injuries.
There are exceptions and exceptional animals I agree, but you cannot deny that these breeds have a reputation not out of hype but out of facts, and this accidents are happening while in the hands of good families (not in the hands of your average drug dealer). The dog that ripped my dog apart was a fantastic family pet owned by lovely people just like you.

As I said, if you own a dangerous breed that you can completely trust not to kill congratulations.

[EchiDna]

In fairness to the previous poster, isn't this like not having a RR because it's unreliable? (Sorry!) Or children because they're loud, dirty & expensive? While it would not suit some - obviously not everybody has a dog - others take on the cons because they benefit from the pros...

mate I don't disagree with the sentiment, but he did say "easily avoided" - what could possibly be easier than not buying a "dangerous dog" (whatever that is) in the first place? There are many many breeds of dogs not classified as "dangerous" which can deliver the many known positives of dog ownership with reduced (perceived?) risk. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti dog - I've got an ex-RSPCA JRT myself and would probably never be without at least one dog. I accept that's my choice and others make other choices, but 4x 70-80kg dogs locked in a reo-mesh run are not what I'd define as members of my family - more likely to be guard dogs or backyard breeders.

[dullbird]

Agreed, some dangerous breeds make excellent family pets, but for your family only. Would you be happy to take your dog to a crowded beach, the next AULRO barbecue, and let it mingle unsupervised with the friendly Land Rover Fraternity, their pets and their kids ?. If you would, congratulations.

The Land Rover fraternity might want to go camping with the family dog and share the campsite with another family and their dog without having to worry about what would happen, so if the bush-bashing Land Rover Fraternity chooses a dog that can be completely trusted in that environment, I'd say good choice :)

The last pit bull/ mastiff /cross ( to clarify, slash means slash, either or, not a cross of a pit bull and a mastiff :), to nearly kill a dog was up your way last weekend, lovely family pet, jumped the fence and removed part of the thoracic wall of a medium sized dog. The attacking dog was a great family pet that had never put a foot wrong, the attack happened in front of the owner's daughter who is now traumatized at seeing her own dogs heart beat, literally. Dog recovered $6000 later. I can give you stats for Perth and for northern Perth in particular, but you won't like them. A few breeds are over-represented in the category of dogs that go for a kill: pit bulls, mastiffs and malamutes and their crosses (ie not pure bred).
The rest of dogs that have a fight bite and inflict bite injuries.
There are exceptions and exceptional animals I agree, but you cannot deny that these breeds have a reputation not out of hype but out of facts, and this accidents are happening while in the hands of good families (not in the hands of your average drug dealer).
The dog that ripped my dog apart was a fantastic family pet owned by lovely people just like you.

As I said, if you own a dangerous breed that you can completely trust not to kill congratulations.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened, but just because it was a fantastic family pet one can not assume the dog had all the socialisation it required as a growing dog.
If a dog is raised well and socialised when it should be (I mean at the important life stages of a dog when experiences matter) do we still think it would of jumped a fence to attack a dog....I couldn't say for sure but I would have my doubts...

Dangerous breed dogs are only marked as dangerous because a number of that breed have attack or caused injury. We can't be sure how all these attacks happened and when you think of the thousand of that breed of dog out their I would guess it was a minority but the government has to be seen to do something that makes people safe in these circumstances..they do so by listing the breed dangerous.....it does not mean that ever dog born to that breed is dangerous!!!

[Dmmos]

I agree with that - but I guess it depends on the definition people give 'dangerous'. I definitely agree with the point below...


...but 4x 70-80kg dogs locked in a reo-mesh run are not what I'd define as members of my family - more likely to be guard dogs or backyard breeders.

This all seemed quite odd...

[CaverD3]

The problem these days, and it can be seen every night while watching the pet ads on TV is that people have apportioned human characteristics to dogs. "He is one of the family", "He sleeps with us in our bed", "Only the pedigree balanced nutritional brand food for my dog".

In my line of work as a park manager, I have to provide leash free parks where the dog owners now have a go at other park users as they see it is their right to let Poopsie do what ever it likes even if that means having a go at kids in the park. They think that is OK and it is the little terrier and foxy owners who are the worst and ill behaved - just like their owners.

A group of aggressive big dogs like cross bred pig dogs have no place being around small children - especially ones that are not familiar to them.

1. Dogs are part of the family. It is important that a dog owner understand this as they are pack animals and your family is their pack.
You must be the pack leader and the dog should know they are at the bottom.
Others have mentioned how important it is to get others to tell your dog what to do.

2. You sound like you resent the provision of off leash parks? However I agree with you about some owners. I avoid my local leash free park and go to anther one where the owners are friendly and the dogs well socialised.

3. Agree about pig-dog type breads:
He has been attacked once by a similar dog to the ones we are talking about. Had my dog by the ear and mine was howling like banshee. It didn’t let go until some of the regulars started to kick it. The owner had no control whatsoever and even complained about others kicking his dog! (he was a not a regular and have not seen him around) I found later he also had puncture a wound in the neck.
Pig dogs are not pets. I went pig hunting on a property out west. The owners had a house dog but the pig dogs were kept in double fenced cages about 2km from the house. They are a weapon used for hunting and we have bread them for that.


DB A good security dog needs to be intelligent and needs to obey commands immediately. There are breeds, usually hunting breeds, that are appropriate to security work and Alsatians and Rottys come to mind.

Breeding is usually from the animals that have demonstrated their intelligence and obedience. It helps that the animal looks and acts the part (intimidation of the would be thief etc). They should attack on command without mauling the offender and stop on command and that is the hard part. Once the animal is let go at an offender it's instincts may take over, if it wont stop and hold or heel on command then the animal is no good as a security dog.

So agression is a part of the breeding and training, but intelligence and obedience to the handler is more important.

1. Security dogs are usually rotties or shepherds, neither of which is a hunting dog. Rotties are cattle dogs, shepperds are herding dogs. They are used for their intelligence and trainability. In Europe Rotties are used as seeing eye dogs for the same reason that labs are used. Unfortunately people get rotties because they want an attack dog and because they are easily trained they will. (threatening to set ones lab on someone does not look so convincing)
2. I don’t think aggression is part of the breeding as much as they are trained to act aggressively. As you said trainability is more important.




One of the first things we teach kids (and adults) unfamiliar with dogs who come to our house is to demonstrate dominance over our dog so he never, not for an instant, contemplates taking them down to assert his position. He is our only dog, so I just imagine what a pack might do (regardless of breed) if they get the idea that the newcomer should be bottom of the pecking order.


Good on ya common sense prevails you are spot on, for example when visitors are allowed on our property my dog is always excited to greet them and sometimes forgets herself and props her front paws on them for support in order to get a fuss, that is a perfect opportunity for me to instruct the person to make her sit and take control of her which calms her done and indicate that she is less in the order of things[/QUOTE

A very good policy. I have always done the same. Dog is always bottom of the heap and happy there.
However fortunately mine is trained not jump on anyone!


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/567.jpg


No he's jumping for a stick. (rolling eyes etoticon )

QUOTE=DiscoTDI;886350]
Never confuse mongrels bred for hunting with Bull Mastiff's, I have a bull Mastiff x Boxer and even though I will not leave my kids alone with it, I trust it more than I would most other dogs.
[/QUOTE]


All owners should know what the breed they own was bread for and what its characteristics are.
eg. cattle dogs are one of the most reported dogs for attacks as they tend to nip little kids, sometimes in the face. That’s what they do to cattle’s heals.
Most herding dogs tend to be nippy.

Great Danes were breed as hunting dogs. They were owned by eastern European nobility. They were breed to chase and bring down the quarry, but never to kill it. In fact a dog that killed would have been killed. The kill belonged to the Noble!
They make lousy pig dogs.

[Santana]

I ....it does not mean that ever dog born to that breed is dangerous!!!

Correct but every dog born to that breed is POTENTIALLY dangerous.

You cannot work out that you are safe unless they have character assessments, as you do in the shelters prior to rehoming where dog's are pushed to a limit , they are annoyed and bossed and irritated on purpose as you know. This cannot recreate their hunting to kill instincts, unless they were allowed to be irritated by a little JRT or a little running crying child, not going to happen (sorry if it is insensitive)

Responsible owners will always lock the gates and will always have their dog on the leash and will always be in control an will never make mistakes.... it just doesn't happen like that and accidents will continue to happen . There are exceptions we all agree, but who certifies those exceptions?, the owners who are blinded by love?, exposure to multiple dogs and children without any incidents?

[dullbird]

mate I don't disagree with the sentiment, but he did say "easily avoided" - what could possibly be easier than not buying a "dangerous dog" (whatever that is) in the first place? There are many many breeds of dogs not classified as "dangerous" which can deliver the many known positives of dog ownership with reduced (perceived?) risk. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti dog - I've got an ex-RSPCA JRT myself and would probably never be without at least one dog. I accept that's my choice and others make other choices, but X 70-80kg dogs locked in a roe-mesh run are not what I'd define as members of my family - more likely to be guard dogs or backyard breeders.

I agree with what you say echidna.....

it's just horses for course, I put down far more little dogs for aggression than I do big ones the main offenders being JRTx and Maltese x
these ones mainly go because of aggression to people biting staff etc! the larger dogs generally go for dog aggression.

I can tell you now people think that little dogs don't do as much damage your wrong one of the worst bites I got was from a JRTxFoxie
that was on par with (and I know this is going to sound contradictory from what I said earlier) pitball both left puncture wounds in the top of my leg, the same leg. Admittedly the pitballs bite left a big hole but the other dog got me twice it was so fast and on the second bite he kept hold of my leg even when I stood up and would not let go. out of the 2 i preferred the pitballs bite

some people think big dogs are dangerous and little dogs are good family pets, that is the same mentality of the people that buy Shetland pony's for their kids because they are small...they are generally the worst pony you can buy a small child.

[dullbird]

Correct but every dog born to that breed is POTENTIALLY dangerous.

You cannot work out that you are safe unless they have character assessments, as you do in the shelters prior to rehoming where dog's are pushed to a limit , they are annoyed and bossed and irritated on purpose as you know. This cannot recreate their hunting to kill instincts, unless they were allowed to be irritated by a little JRT or a little running crying child, not going to happen (sorry if it is insensitive)

Responsible owners will always lock the gates and will always have their dog on the leash and will always be in control an will never make mistakes.... it just doesn't happen like that and accidents will continue to happen . There are exceptions we all agree, but who certifies those exceptions?, the owners who are blinded by love?, exposure to multiple dogs and children without any incidents?

But you are missing the fact that EVERY dog has the potential to be dangerous just because a kelpie or a lab is not on the dangerous dog list doesn't mean it can't be! So while everyone is shying of the DANGEROUS dog behaving well walking down the street tutting at the owner for having such a dog and frowning upon them being blinded by love your child is still just in as much danger by another breed of dog walking down the same street.....if your going to treat every POTENTIAL dangerous dog on that list the same you should extend your cautiousness to them all

just because its potential doesn't mean it will.....of course I appreicate doesn't me it won't

[Santana]

But you are missing the fact that EVERY dog has the potential to be dangerous just because a kelpie or a lab is not on the dangerous dog list doesn't mean it can't be! So while everyone is shying of the DANGEROUS dog behaving well walking down the street tutting at the owner for having such a dog and frowning upon them being blinded by love your child is still just in as much danger by another breed of dog walking down the same street.....if your going to treat every POTENTIAL dangerous dog on that list the same you should extend your cautiousness to them all

just because its potential doesn't mean it will.....of course I appreicate doesn't me it won't

This is where I come out with the Shark comparison..... white pointer, reef shark.... (you started with the comparison about horses......:))
Of course both are large and have the potential to kill, the risk assessment is based on statistics , genetics, what we see happens on the streets commonly, as it has been said before: what they evolved to do.
Every dog has the potential to be dangerous, but seriously, not every dog has a potential to kill. I have never seen a kelpie or a lab kill a dog in 15 years at work, when we use the world danger refering to a breed, I guess we mean danger to kill or seriously injure a person or a dog.

You can sell " dangerous breeds" with a contract to request early socialization, training etc.... the Australian public will do what they think is right, and mostly get it wrong. A Kelpie or a Collie in the most useless of homes will lead to separation anxiety, biting, nipping, escaping, neurosis, boredom, but rarely human death.
I acknowledge your point, every dog is dangerous, every CAT IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS !!!!, get bitten in the finger right in the joint and you'll spend 6 months on serious antibiotics !!!, cats cat claw you in the eyes and leave you blind, etc etc etc..... but will not kill you. ( although we are starting to see supercats roaming around and beating cats that badly that.....perhaps soon...).;)

[dullbird]

yeah I totally get what your saying!!

my comparison of horses was only to show that contrary to what some think smaller is not always better....

And your right about the potential to kill it is obviously far greater in a larger animal......although cats do and have smothered children!
And I tell you what the small dog that bit me at work...he had the potential to have killed a small child I have no doubt about that what so ever his jaw pressure was unreal.

It just hasn't happened yet!.........but it doesn't mean it couldn't, like I said they all have potential depending on what the drive maybe.

but it is easier to focus on the bigger dogs because they are more in your face and more threatening because they are well "bigger"

[George130]

I would have to agree that any breed can be dangerouse. Kids should not have been out there.
We put our lab cross down about 10 years ago as it bailed my wife up one day and wouldn't let her move for an hour. It then tried the same on me and would kill anything else that came in the yard. We spoke with the vet about it and got what the answere we didn't want, That the dog would attack someone oneday.
A month after we put it down the breeder we got her from contacted us to check up on the dog as half of that litter had ben put down for the same reasons.

[lardy]

[QUOTE=DiscoTDI;886459Gotta tell you the though of crossing a pit bull with a mastiff is terrifying:)[/QUOTE]

Where is the evidence that it had even sniffed the **** of a pitt bull, just media hype as per, buy the dogs body do a DNA test on it i'll believe that

[lardy]

Hey Taff, mate think thats a little unfair...the dog at hand was ripping another dog apart...I think a belt in the nuts was the least he could do. I have done the same when I malamute jumped our fence and went toe to toe with my shepherd...he didnt really need a hand but by all tokens wasnt going to risk any more damage and that malamute copped a steel capped boot in the nads and guts..it quickly retreated,

Regards

Stevo

if you are up for the challenge a dry finger up the ring would stop most dogs ......bit nutty but !!!!

[CaverD3]

Children that aren’t used to dogs and dogs that aren’t used to children is a dangerous mix. I suspect that this is what happened in this situation. Owners were described as "quiet and kept to themselves". If the owners were not social then there is a good chance the dogs weren't either.
Parents need to expose children to dogs and teach then how to approach dogs and how to read signs dogs give.
Dog owners need to expose their dogs to kids (especially screaming ones) so they know they are human (like their pack leader) and show children how to approach etc.
Many dogs in Aus are kept in the backyard ignored and excluded from the house (the human pack) If there are a number of them they will form their own pack with their own pack leader.
Dogs have been domesticated and have become part of human society (whether pets, working dogs, hunting dogs or guard dogs) but they are still dogs and retain their basic instincts.

[Bigbjorn]

A tragedy, but one that could have been avoided with better supervision of both children and dogs. No use for dogs myself (or horses) and unless they are working dogs, I can not understand why people keep them.

In my Social Security days, one of the indicators that a residence was occupied by ferals/trash was the presence of man eating dogs.

[p38arover]

In my Social Security days, one of the indicators that a residence was occupied by ferals/trash was the presence of man eating dogs.

Seriously, have you noticed the number of 4WD owners who have large dogs, often of the breeds we read about in this type of tragic story.

[taff]

Seriously, have you noticed the number of 4WD owners who have large dogs, often of the breeds we read about in this type of tragic story.

whats wrong with owning a 4wd and a large breed of dog?

[taff]

In my Social Security days, one of the indicators that a residence was occupied by ferals/trash was the presence of man eating dogs.

another idiotic statement from someone who obviously thinks he is better than others but judging by the job that he does is just an underpayed working class-er like the majority but with a lot of prejudice.

[weeds]

In my Social Security days, one of the indicators that a residence was occupied by ferals/trash was the presence of man eating dogs.

:angel:

[BMKal]

if you are up for the challenge a dry finger up the ring would stop most dogs ......bit nutty but !!!!

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Now only a rugby league player would know that !!!!!

Hey Stevo - are you a league player ???? :p:p

[stevo68]

Pet Ownership In Australia

12 million Australians are associated with pets.
63% of the 7.5 million households in Australia own pets.
Australia has one of the highest incidence of pet ownership in the world.
Typically, the major carer of the pet is female, married with children, living in the suburbs and most likely employed.
91% of pet owners report feeling 'very close' to their pet, reinforcing that pets are an integral member of the family unit, however constituted.
Pets were a normal part of childhood for more than 83% of Australians.
Of the Australians who do not currently own a pet, 53% would like to do so in the future. Over 3.7 million dogs alone as pets......a very sad situation....but ultimately comes down to the owner. I have a 1 yr old German Shepherd, beautiful nature, have grown up with them my whole life. If you know German Shepherds ( not Alsations....thats the yank word for them), they do not mature till they are around 3-4 yrs old, so are very boisterous. I would not leave my young children with him...or my previous shepherds...unless I was around. Its just commonsense....even moreso if the dog doesn't have experience with children.

As for the comments re: some breeds of dogs, the purpose of the stats above taken in 2005 is that considering the amount of pet/ dog ownership the level of incidences are relatively low....as most people are responsible. This is irrespective of breed, size of dog, personal opinion etc. Naturally some breeds have tendencies over others, Max right now is a playful puppy but very strong protective instincts and will alert as someone steps onto our property. When the older kids are playing outside, he can still be a pain being so enthusiastic...but where ever they go...he goes....herding and protection.

People do forget that dogs are animals...they are not humans/ children nor should they be treated as such. Even SWMBO on occasion when we have had a big storm has said we should bring them inside. I tell her no...they are animals...there ancestors would have to find cover....so can ours. As sad as this is...hopefully it will serve as a warning....to everyone and anyone...not just those with preconceived thoughts on the type or area a person happens to live in ( this is Australia not the UK), that we may love our pets but they were born from a wild place and that needs to be remembered,

Regards

Stevo

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/70608-children-mauled-dogs-post886985.html#post886985)
if you are up for the challenge a dry finger up the ring would stop most dogs ......bit nutty but !!!!

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Now only a rugby league player would know that !!!!!

Hey Stevo - are you a league player ???? :p:p
Pass.........not up for that much of a challenge :p...and no mate...though did play union when I was younger....much younger :D,

Regards

Stevo

[jimbo110]

Let's just say not all kids are as sqeaky clean as their parents make out when these things happen......................Mum angry at dog decision - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4812831a11.html)

[Bigbjorn]

another idiotic statement from someone who obviously thinks he is better than others but judging by the job that he does is just an underpayed working class-er like the majority but with a lot of prejudice.

For some years before retirement I was a senior field officer of the DSS investigating fraud, misrepresentation and non-compliance. I do know what I am talking about and if you have not done the job, met the people, you do not. I said ONE of the indicators was the presence of man eating dogs. There were others.

[Shonky]

Let's just say not all kids are as sqeaky clean as their parents make out when these things happen......................Mum angry at dog decision - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4812831a11.html)

Thanks for the link mate.

Jesus that ****es me off - why do parents allow their kids to act like that?

The kid squashed the dogs balls once, the dog didn't attack.

The kid squashed 'em again and got bitten.


I'd say that was one more chance than he deserved! The dog? "Good boy!"

[CaverD3]

People do forget that dogs are animals...they are not humans/ children nor should they be treated as such. Even SWMBO on occasion when we have had a big storm has said we should bring them inside. I tell her no...they are animals...there ancestors would have to find cover....so can ours. As sad as this is...hopefully it will serve as a warning....to everyone and anyone...not just those with preconceived thoughts on the type or area a person happens to live in ( this is Australia not the UK), that we may love our pets but they were born from a wild place and that needs to be remembered,

Regards

Stevo

Dogs are animals but I think you do not understand how domesticated dogs relate to humans.
Domesticated dogs are not wild animals they were not born in the wild. They are dependent on humans for their needs and have been for thousands of years.
They are still however pack animals and you must be the pack leader. If your dog is not with you you have excluded it from the pack. This is why dogs want to come inside. There is nothing wrong with a dog inside, it will feel part of the pack. Then putting it out can be used as chastisment. It is also why (if you have established pack leader status) your dog will be pleased to see you when you go outside to him and why he has a desire to please you.
If you do not include a dog in your pack they may find/form another pack.

[CaverD3]

Let's just say not all kids are as sqeaky clean as their parents make out when these things happen......................Mum angry at dog decision - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4812831a11.html)

That Kid hould be nominated for a darwin award. ;)

Parent takes no responsability; "my little darling wouldn't do anthing like that" :angel:

[stevo68]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo68 https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/70608-children-mauled-dogs-8.html#post887127)
People do forget that dogs are animals...they are not humans/ children nor should they be treated as such. Even SWMBO on occasion when we have had a big storm has said we should bring them inside. I tell her no...they are animals...there ancestors would have to find cover....so can ours. As sad as this is...hopefully it will serve as a warning....to everyone and anyone...not just those with preconceived thoughts on the type or area a person happens to live in ( this is Australia not the UK), that we may love our pets but they were born from a wild place and that needs to be remembered,

Regards

Stevo

Dogs are animals but I think you do not understand how domesticated dogs relate to humans.
Domesticated dogs are not wild animals they were not born in the wild. They are dependent on humans for their needs and have been for thousands of years.
They are still however pack animals and you must be the pack leader. If your dog is not with you you have excluded it from the pack. This is why dogs want to come inside. There is nothing wrong with a dog inside, it will feel part of the pack. Then putting it out can be used as chastisment. It is also why (if you have established pack leader status) your dog will be pleased to see you when you go outside to him and why he has a desire to please you.
If you do not include a dog in your pack they may find/form another pack.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/855.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/newreply.php'do=newreply&p=887182) Not going to get into a debate as have no professional experience in this area....only laymans experience of having had GSD's for over 30 yrs. Domesticated dogs are only a heart beat away from their original wild form. I can go outside and see my GSD and SWMBO'ds retriever play fighting but in such a manner you would think it was their wild ancestors.

The unfortunate instant that lead to this thread...where domesticated dogs became a pack and killed a child. Domesticated dogs that kill stock and in some cases go feral and breed. Despite 1000's of years of domestication......their lineage is close by.

In terms of pack mentalities, watch a doco on wolves, there is a hierarchy....just cause the top leader gets to do things...doesnt mean the rest of the pack does....that can be sleeping arrangements, food, shelter etc. I establish leader very early, especially with male GSD's as they are a one man dog and will test the boundaries when they can.

As said I am just going on personal experience and what I have learnt from breeders and vets when it comes to dogs. Just as we live in a civilised society.....we can go to war and kill to protect our land, our women and children...not unlike our ancestors from 100's and 1000's of years ago. Those primal instincts remain,

Regards

Stevo

[Disco Mick]

At 4 years of age I was mauled by 2 greyhounds running loose in the street. So my thoughts on this are somewhat coloured by my experience. I really feel for the little girl because I think it would be a most terifying horrible way to die.

The owner is responsible. They are the ones that chose to breed/raise/own these types of dogs. If I left my shotgun in the back yard and the neighbours kid shot himself with it I would be culpable. Dogs have the potential to kill and many breeds are tailored for this ability (working dogs). The owner may be devistated that this has happened but I think they must do jail time for manslaughter.

This is one of the reasons I think dogs are registered just like any firearm it's to attach responsibility for that dog. Sometimes like owning a firearm I think dog owners should be licenced too. Some owner training might ensure dogs are well behaved and dangerous breeds are kept under control.

While I'm still wary of dogs, in the 36 years since I was attacked I've been able to like some dogs and be comfortable around them but I don't think I'll ever be a dog person.

Cheers

Michael

[CaverD3]

I think dog owners should be licenced too. Some owner training might ensure dogs are well behaved and dangerous breeds are kept under control.



Given the story fro NZ:

I think parents should be licenced too. Some parent training might ensure children are well behaved and feral kids are kept under control. :angel:

[hoadie72]

Let's just say not all kids are as sqeaky clean as their parents make out when these things happen......................Mum angry at dog decision - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4812831a11.html)
She looks hot!

[Bigbjorn]

Given the story fro NZ:

I think parents should be licenced too. Some parent training might ensure children are well behaved and feral kids are kept under control. :angel:

Are we proposing some NSDAP style eugenics here? Sterilisation of unworthy persons?

[loanrangie]

At 4 years of age I was mauled by 2 greyhounds running loose in the street. So my thoughts on this are somewhat coloured by my experience. I really feel for the little girl because I think it would be a most terifying horrible way to die.

The owner is responsible. They are the ones that chose to breed/raise/own these types of dogs. If I left my shotgun in the back yard and the neighbours kid shot himself with it I would be culpable. Dogs have the potential to kill and many breeds are tailored for this ability (working dogs). The owner may be devistated that this has happened but I think they must do jail time for manslaughter.

This is one of the reasons I think dogs are registered just like any firearm it's to attach responsibility for that dog. Sometimes like owning a firearm I think dog owners should be licenced too. Some owner training might ensure dogs are well behaved and dangerous breeds are kept under control.

While I'm still wary of dogs, in the 36 years since I was attacked I've been able to like some dogs and be comfortable around them but I don't think I'll ever be a dog person.

Cheers

Michael

Saw the story on the news again last night and all they interviewed were so calm about the whole ordeal, me i'd be outraged regardless of how good these animals are supposed to be, a child has died and nothing can ever bring her back. The father said it was just an accident, what a crock of ****, 1) the mother should not have left her children there, 2) the owner should have kept them away from the dogs. Me i'd want to kill the dogs owners or throw them to a pack of hungry savage rabid killers.

[hoadie72]

Are we proposing some NSDAP style eugenics here? Sterilisation of unworthy persons?
retroactive abortions.

[Gooner]

Congratulations to all on the thoughtful and considered posts in this tragic situation.

I want to make the following 2 points and I do not wish to offend anybody who owns what have become known as 'dangerous breeds'.

I walk my girl (11 year old GR) and it is no longer the enjoyable experience that it once was. I see other dog walkers carrying sticks and its not to shoo the flies away. They expect that sooner or later, they are going to have to defend either themselves or more likely their dog from another dog that has gotten free of its home. My girl could not defend her self from the breeds mentioned above....and why should she have to.
I have no doubt she would put herself between my kids and an attacking dog and she would be mauled and possibly killed for it.
Now, instead of my dog being attacked, suppose it was a kid walking to school with his mates. A 10 year old boy goes down under a 40-50kg brute of a dog with bad intentions and 10 seconds later it is all over.
This is happening. No 2nd chances. You cannot get there in time. Too late. A child is killed.
Why? because somebody chose to have a dog which had the capability to kill. This leads me to my 2nd point.
Its the potential for destruction that these breeds possess that people do not seem to want to acknowledge. Some dogs will fight and then walk away, while others will fight till one is killed. Where in our world do we need the breeds that have this destructive power to kill other dogs and children?
Why do I have to be fearful because I choose to walk my dog in public?
I respect peoples right to choose their breed, but I dont understand why you would have a breed that you do not trust with your kids?

Craig

[Shonky]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[abaddonxi]

Did ya see how fat those dogs were?

Somehow I don't think they did much hunting, or walking, or anything but eating.

Simon

[d@rk51d3]

LOL. SHONKY.

That reminded me of a dog we had, that would go ballistic if even a fly went anywhere near her food.

She'd swallow things whole, just to keep the flies from landing on her bone.:D

[EchiDna]

well this is the photo from the ABC news article - would you be happy with that in your suburban street?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1122.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/12574)

[CaverD3]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


Very good Shonky! :Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[abaddonxi]

well this is the photo from the ABC news article - would you be happy with that in your suburban street?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1122.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/12574)

Reckon I could fit the whole family in that water tank.

:D:D

Simon

[Siska]

Congratulations to all on the thoughtful and considered posts in this tragic situation.

I want to make the following 2 points and I do not wish to offend anybody who owns what have become known as 'dangerous breeds'.

I walk my girl (11 year old GR) and it is no longer the enjoyable experience that it once was. I see other dog walkers carrying sticks and its not to shoo the flies away. They expect that sooner or later, they are going to have to defend either themselves or more likely their dog from another dog that has gotten free of its home. My girl could not defend her self from the breeds mentioned above....and why should she have to.
I have no doubt she would put herself between my kids and an attacking dog and she would be mauled and possibly killed for it.
Now, instead of my dog being attacked, suppose it was a kid walking to school with his mates. A 10 year old boy goes down under a 40-50kg brute of a dog with bad intentions and 10 seconds later it is all over.
This is happening. No 2nd chances. You cannot get there in time. Too late. A child is killed.
Why? because somebody chose to have a dog which had the capability to kill. This leads me to my 2nd point.
Its the potential for destruction that these breeds possess that people do not seem to want to acknowledge. Some dogs will fight and then walk away, while others will fight till one is killed. Where in our world do we need the breeds that have this destructive power to kill other dogs and children?
Why do I have to be fearful because I choose to walk my dog in public?
I respect peoples right to choose their breed, but I dont understand why you would have a breed that you do not trust with your kids?

Craig

I don't mean to pick on your post in particular, but it's near the end of them and offers much of the same sentiment that a few others have posted.

Just because a dog may show Dog aggression or have a high prey drive, this does not in anyway equate to Human aggression. The dog I have has extremely high prey drive, is very dominant and to some extent Dog aggressive. All this and I've had her at Obedience training from the week I picked her up (twice a week, she was the youngest dog at that particular club to ever enter advanced Obedience), she has obtained Obedience titles (more of which are to come). I take her walking around our area and while I know she does not like other dogs, she is always in complete control, even when nearly every time we're out she is challenged by other dogs, big or small. (She is always on lead, unless I go for a 15 min drive to a beach which I know is deserted even though we have a 'dog' beach 400meters from our house) When we approach other dogs I either make her sit or drop which she does without hesitation, the whole while the other dogs are barking/growling at the end of their leads. Some of them having to be dragged away, others once they receive the 'look' from her tuck their tail and hide behind their owners. I've had differing responses from people about her. Some comment on how well behaved she is and that she is a credit to canines, to the opposite where people have muttered, "Why bother having a dog like that?" All this when she has done nothing wrong and been the perfect canine citizen. I have taken her on WAAULRO camping trips and every body there loved her.
I have no hesitation letting anybody pat her, although I have a basic rule of she must always be supervised with children. And I truely believe that she would never harm a child, I'm more concerned about what a child would do to her. I know what I used to do when a kid to the neighbourhood dog. (Nothing serious, things like riding her etc)

I am all for Dangerous Dog laws! As long as they are done on a case by case basis. Though I will fight tooth and nail against Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) BSL is like saying a certain ethnic group are more likely to be drink drivers, so just in case we will ban that whole ethnic group from driving.

Sorry for the longish post, but this is something I am very passionate about.

[EchiDna]

Can someone shed light on why greyhounds always (and I mean always) seem to have muzzles on them when walking/exercising even when just them and their owner miles away from anyone else? is there a law on this or something?

conversely, why are there so rarely muzzles on other dog breeds when out and about? couldn't this solve 70% of the problem? as long as the muzzle doesn't impede breathing and drinking, I assume muzzles would work?? am I over simplifying it?

[dullbird]

greyhounds have to wear a muzzle due to NSW legislation.....

for the very reason of many attacks on small animals etc. But again mainly from hounds that have been blooded.
Although greyhounds are known for their high prey drive, not all have any intention to chase a small dog or pocket pet but they still have to wear one even if they are not bad.

There may possibly be a test they can be put through now so they don't have to wear one but not sure.....This is also another reason why we find it hard to rehome lovely greyhounds people think they are an aggressive dog because they have to walk around with a preventative measure on even if they have never shown signs of aggression to small animals

[lardy]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

is that your dog mate ? looks like an mareican staffy has the same markings as mine good dogs

[lardy]

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/670719/dognuts.jpg

is that your dog mate ? looks like an american staffy has the same markings as mine good dogs

[lardy]

because greyhounds are sight dogs as in they are switched on by the sight of prey ....the local neighbourhood cat and they have superior eyesight as i understand it that is why they have to wear a muzzle and not allowed of the lead in W.A. greyhounds are the most beautiful placid pet you will ever have but unfortunatley they will **** off and do a cat or similar at a rate of knots you could do nothing about

they are not bad animals at all and will nick they sofa off you at every opportunity they are suprisingly lazy dogs and love cuddles but they are bred for coursing a kinda sick sport which turned into racing

[dullbird]

because greyhounds are sight dogs as in they are switched on by the sight of prey ....the local neighbourhood cat and they have superior eyesight as i understand it that is why they have to wear a muzzle and not allowed of the lead in W.A. greyhounds are the most beautiful placid pet you will ever have but unfortunatley they will **** off and do a cat or similar at a rate of knots you could do nothing about

they are not bad animals at all and will nick they sofa off you at every opportunity they are suprisingly lazy dogs and love cuddles but they are bred for coursing a kinda sick sport which turned into racing

afghans, deerhounds, staghounds, whipets and sulki's are all site hounds and as far as i'm aware it is only the greyhound that has to wear it......

also not a 110% sure but all the above breeds (apart from the greyhound) don't get raced or blooded....well maybe blooded if they a mix with something to create a pigging dog prehaps

[p38arover]

in W.A. greyhounds are the most beautiful placid pet you will ever have

But not in other States? :angel:

[kowari]

Greyhounds wear muzles because most tend to be retired raceing animals and as such are trained to chase smaller animal looking lures, for which they are rewarded to make them chase harder. They have a short racing life and if they are to be offered as pets there has to be some safeguard should they be off the lead. the majority are euthanised of course, at only a few years old. there are a number of female greyhounds producing litters of pups every year, only very few get to training,
err, i wonder what happens to all those others! still, dont want to get in the way of someone making a buck on the dogs do we!

Of course that is not what this thread is about, its about people owning dogs that they percieve compliments them, their image, their lifestyle etc and those doge often dont play along with the owners imagination.

there are people that want to own big dogs, danes etc, because they like them and probably also the conversation and interest they generate. there are people that like little dogs with flat round faces apparently because they remind them of children, and they often treat them as such! and there are all the sizes in between that cause no problem because they are just pets and are part of a family.

however, there are people who want to be seen with a dog that says," my dog is so tough it will beat your dog if they fight " my dog is so gentle, but its ancestry is directly linked to fighting breeds, you wont get into my yard cause iv'e got a tough dog!

Thats part of the problem of course, fighting breeds, destined to live a life alone, never to breed and yet very often still with their bollocks!!! Why!! they arnt going to use them, they only serve to keep the dog in a state of aggression and an innate desire to drive other dogs (or subordinate pack members) into submission.

Pit bulls, and all the bullterrier crosses, you know the dog I mean, are so very often there to serve as an accessory to their owners.

And before you get all indignant and go on about how gentle they are etc etc, there are exceptions to every rule !

BUT.

If i meet a fighting/ guarding type breed in the local park or in the street, straining against its lead (cause "my dogs so strong") why is it that 9 times out of ten the owner is so similar to the dog, both the owner and dog are supposed to convey the image that "we are tough and wont be messed with" The sort of owner that would say " I wouldnt have him nutured, its not fair. he would never hurt my kids, he loves them. hed kill someone if he came in my garden" and as someone already said, probably has a big, big fence, that also says the same thing.

exceptions to every rule of course, but,

according to records here, in the USA (where the loonys live) and the UK,

the majority of dog attacks (seriouse)are carried by dogs that know who they are attacking, members of their pack, or friends of. the majority are fighting/guarding breeds.

and I bet, I absolutly bet, that the majority are owned by stupid redreck types that want the dog as a status symbol.

I think someone has already said, there are no bad dogs, only bad owners!!

for those that I may have upset I should say,
I own two wirehaired pointers, but dont use them for shooting, (whats the point of that! I guess I think they convey an outdoorsy image when we go to the forest each weekend, or something stupid like that. both are nutured and the male will chase smaller dogs if they run, which frightens the owners of course, and he gets whacked. he will fight with no dog, will runaway if they have a go at him and im happy with that. He barks at intruders or people passing at the gate and thats good.
Children, I am fully aware of the pack mentality, of the pecking order, dog eat dog wasnt coined fo nothing !! so no dog should be totally trusted.

Live and let live, but there is a time when we should be saying " exactly why do you want that breed and you will have it nutured".

[taff]

For some years before retirement I was a senior field officer of the DSS investigating fraud, misrepresentation and non-compliance. I do know what I am talking about and if you have not done the job, met the people, you do not. I said ONE of the indicators was the presence of man eating dogs. There were others.

it was still an idiotic statement to make imo, and i would think that someone so experienced in that type of work would act without prejudice and take each case on it's on merits - good job you've retired huh? ;)

[dullbird]

But not in other States? :angel:


yes they are;)

[dullbird]

some very sensible points in there kowari

[Siska]

according to records here, in the USA (where the loonys live) and the UK,

the majority of dog attacks (seriouse)are carried by dogs that know who they are attacking, members of their pack, or friends of. the majority are fighting/guarding breeds.


Just wondering if you can quote the source of this information or where I could find it. Thanks.

[Siska]

I know this is slightly off topic, but in regards to Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) it seems that the RSPCA in the UK have realised that specific breed bans DO NOT work to stop dog attacks!

Here is a link to the article.

LINK (http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php'sid=15&aid=95)

[dullbird]

it also sends breeders underground (I'm not talking the registered type).....in cases of pitballs etc.

where I think you only create more problems!

I don't think there is anyone clear answer from going back through and reading the thread...passionate or not neither side is completely right and both have very good and valid points.

but at the end of the day most dogs that do bad things are because of people occasionally this isn't the case and I except that but after all we did domesticate them.

[Santana]

I know this is slightly off topic, but in regards to Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) it seems that the RSPCA in the UK have realised that specific breed bans DO NOT work to stop dog attacks!

Here is a link to the article.

LINK (http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php'sid=15&aid=95)

That is not the conclusion of the article. The article talks about an unfair law in the UK that can force an owner to have their pet euthanased if it is judged to belong a dangerous breed, based on their looks, without having specific proof of breed or having commited a dog attack. :( It does not talk about prevention of dog attacks.

We are nowhere there in Australia and no-one in this thread has for one second suggested the destruction of specific breeds, I think over here we want to see them muzzled in public places , and at the moment the only breed regulated are pit bulls and pit bull crosses, and these are not condemned to be destroyed.

[Siska]

I think over here we want to see them muzzled in public places , and at the moment the only breed regulated are pit bulls and pit bull crosses, and these are not condemned to be destroyed.

Currently in Australia there are 4 dogs listed on the Dangerous/Restricted Dogs List, they are (a) American Pitbull Terrier or Pitbull Terrier, (b) Japanese Tosa, (c) Dogo Argentino, (d) Fila Brasiliero.

And as for the fact that these are not condemned to be destroyed, it may pay to have a look at some of the goings on in QLD, particularly the Logan council on the Gold Coast. And also in Victoria (I can't remember the council off the top of my head). But both of these States have seized dogs and destroyed dogs based soley on breed!! These dogs had never had any complaints made against them and had never displayed any 'dangerous' behaviour. All this came down to the fact that they had a certain 'look' about them. IMO this is very unjust!!

[Santana]

[QUOTE=Siska;887897]Currently in Australia there are 4 dogs listed on the Dangerous/Restricted Dogs List, they are (a) American Pitbull Terrier or Pitbull Terrier, (b) Japanese Tosa, (c) Dogo Argentino, (d) Fila Brasiliero.

The last three breeds are not contemplated in WA , not allowed to import and as far as I am aware do not exist. Correct me if I am wrong.
However pit bull terriers registered as staffy crossess? hundreds of them.

Breeds not regulated that kill regularly: akitas, malamutes, rotties, mastiffs.

Are pit bulls ruled to be destroyed in WA ? Nop

What happened in Victoria and the Gold coast, anyone out there with the facts ????
<quote>

[Siska]

What happened in Victoria and the Gold coast, anyone out there with the facts ????


Here are some facts

http://www.nationaldog.com.au/2005/2005_sept/page_36.pdf

New Page 1 (http://www.victimsofbsl.com/home.htm)

When I get some time I will dig up the info about things that have happened in Victoria.

[EchiDna]

Here are some facts

http://www.nationaldog.com.au/2005/2005_sept/page_36.pdf

New Page 1 (http://www.victimsofbsl.com/home.htm)

When I get some time I will dig up the info about things that have happened in Victoria.

Sorry mate, I don't think objectivity comes from people most decidedly on one side of the fence. Those articles read more like far left wing political manifestos than objective discussions from the likes of vets and the RSPCA who do not have any particular axe to grind one way or the other.

[CaverD3]

however, there are people who want to be seen with a dog that says," my dog is so tough it will beat your dog if they fight " my dog is so gentle, but its ancestry is directly linked to fighting breeds, you wont get into my yard cause iv'e got a tough dog!

Pit bulls, and all the bullterrier crosses, you know the dog I mean, are so very often there to serve as an accessory to their owners.

If i meet a fighting/ guarding type breed in the local park or in the street, straining against its lead (cause "my dogs so strong") why is it that 9 times out of ten the owner is so similar to the dog, both the owner and dog are supposed to convey the image that "we are tough and wont be messed with" The sort of owner that would say " I wouldnt have him nutured, its not fair. he would never hurt my kids, he loves them. hed kill someone if he came in my garden" and as someone already said, probably has a big, big fence, that also says the same thing.

and I bet, I absolutly bet, that the majority are owned by stupid redreck types that want the dog as a status symbol.

I think someone has already said, there are no bad dogs, only bad owners!!


I have always thought:

"If the owner is wearing a studded collar the dog will be problem"

[Shonky]

is that your dog mate ? looks like an mareican staffy has the same markings as mine good dogs

Nah mate not my dog - pic from the interweb. ;)

Incedentally, I have a Labrador X Border Collie named Bailey and he's a big huggle-bear. :angel:

[easo]

I do know of 3 very cute pure-bred Pug puppies that could replace the bull mastiffs though.


my missus has been begging me for a pug for ages! do they make good children's pets? Do they struggle in tropical heat?