Eye Sore

[101RRS]

Just north of Canberra at Lake George, a decision has been made to contruct a large number of wind generators on the eastern shore of the lake (now dry). These are approximately 50m high and have not yet been completed.

What an eye-sore.

I am not a conservationist but I do believe that we must seek alternative means of generating power and I do accept that includes these monsters - but really consideration has to also be given to the visual pollution. I may be wrong but I understand that these things do not generate a lot of power and when all is considered in the "whole of life" context- power generated vs use in build and maintenance I believe energy produced is minimal.

Garry
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Windmills2.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/windmills.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Windmill3.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/windmill4.jpg

[Slunnie]

I stopped for an eat at the bottom of one of these at Hampton recently. I was just completely blown away by the size of these things! They are huuuuuge! But they do impress me greatly from an engineering/construction perspective. I actually don't mind them to be honest, and think that they can also be a source of interest and beauty. On the flip side, ironically today I was driving down the Mitchell Hwy and decided that I hate lines of Poplars.... so there you go. :lol2:

[B92 8NW]

I stopped for an eat at the bottom of one of these at Hampton recently. I was just completely blown away by the size of these things! They are huuuuuge! But they do impress me greatly from an engineering/construction perspective. I actually don't mind them to be honest, and think that they can also be a source of interest and beauty. On the flip side, ironically today I was driving down the Mitchell Hwy and decided that I hate lines of Poplars.... so there you go. :lol2:

x2

Beautiful in their own right.


(Just don't say that to the antis in SE vic:D)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Don't know if I fully agree with you Garry.

The efficiency of wind turbines is something like 59%, where as solar (photovoltaic) cells are only around 20% or less and only work during the 50% of the diurnal cycle when there is sunlight. Granted there are not always winds appropriate for wind generation (windspeed too high or too low), however in the area you mention I would assume that there are reasonably good planetary winds (prevaling winds caused by the rotation of the planet). The locations on the windward rising westerly slope will prevent the turbulence of the hilltops and the leeward slope. The height of 50M means that the tip of the blade will be above 20M at it's lowest point of the arc, meaning that it will be able to efficiently capture the most energy and not be adversly effeted by the varying power and windspeed at lower heights (ground effects). The construction and maintenance of wind generation whilst high per kilowatt is offset by the fact that the resource required to run the turbine is free.

With low rainfall and short mountains, hydro-electric generation in this country is not a viable option and coal has issues with CO2. I am singularly against nuclear power generation which is more expensive than any of the other options in a "whole-of-life" of many many human generations basis. So I believe that we need a variety of alternate forms of power generation which must include, solar photovoltaic, solar thermal, wave, geothermal and unfortunately visually upsetting wind.

[p38arover]

I don't mind wind generators. Take a run into Crookwell, there is a wind farm on the road in to there.

Speaking of size, have a look at this blade from a generator. The bloke who owns that truck said the blades range from 37.3m to 42m in length.

http://rangerovers.net/forum/download/file.php?id=910

http://rangerovers.net/forum/download/file.php?id=910

[slug_burner]

Each one of the generators is probably generating 250 kw. The blades can be turned to alter the pitch so they can run at pretty much any wind speed.

I suspect we will have to get use to them as more of them are popping up around the place.

[p38arover]

Denmark:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1166.jpg

[Slunnie]

I was reading the written signage about the ones near me (near Blayney) and I think with those ones at least, when the wind speeds gets too high they stop them.

ok, here is some info from Country Energy on Crookwells wind farm.


Wind farm facts & figures


The Crookwell Wind Farm has eight 45 metre-high generators. The three-bladed rotors on each turbine have a 44 metre diameter and a rotational speed of 28 revolutions per minute (rpm).
Each generator is comprised of a 36 tonne steel tower and 27.5 tonne worth of hub, blades and casing. The generator towers or turbines are set in 105 cubic metres of reinforced concrete foundation.
Each turbine can generate approximately 600 kilowatts of power, giving a total power output of almost five megawatts. This is enough to meet the average electricity demands of 3,500 homes. The turbines are connected to the national grid by 3,300 metres of buried 11,000 volt cable.
The wind farm's turbines automatically start turning when wind speed is greater than 15 km/hr. The turbines reach maximum power at wind speeds of 54 km/hr and automatically shut down in very high winds greater than 72 km/hr. The turbines are also protected by a lightning protection system.

[Slunnie]

Ron, that would be such a good water based slalom course!!!

[101RRS]

Nope - sorry - your are all wrong :D- they are ugly.

Lets build them in your backyard:)

So each of these can power only 250 electric steam irons - wow:mad:

Yes I admire the engineering but :mad:. It is a wonder they did not build them on top of the escarpment to the west of the lake where the winds are stronger and even more consistent - I would rather watch the eagles that were soaring the air waves when I took the long range shots than inefficient wind mills.

Grrrr

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Nope - sorry - your are all wrong :D- they are ugly. <snip> ...
Ugly I can live with that sentiment! :)

[Slunnie]

So each of these can power only 250 electric steam irons - wow:mad:

Yes I admire the engineering but :mad:. It is a wonder they did not build them on top of the escarpment to the west of the lake where the winds are stronger and even more consistent - I would rather watch the eagles that were soaring the air waves when I took the long range shots than inefficient wind mills.

Grrrr
Actually, they can run 600 electric steam irons..... each.

I'm not sure why they didn't put them in a better spot either. You'd think the dummys would have looked into that.


:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Actually, they can run 600 electric steam irons..... each.

I'm not sure why they didn't put them in a better spot either. You'd think the dummys would have looked into that.


:DSometimes at the top of a mountain range is not the best spot because of the frequency of excessive wind speed and because you get turbulent air on the lee of a hill. Less turbulent airflow the more power in the wind and the more electricity produced. The turbulent airflow is the same reason that wind turbines are not usually situated around areas where wind may be deflected by trees or large buildings. The situation near Lake George appears perfect.

The owners of the land can be another inhibiting factor. No permission/ownership, no turbines.

They may not be dummies after all.

[Xavie]

I'd have them in my backyard any day.... I think they are going to be one of the major ways we make any impact on our pollution. The only issue is how noisy they are!! All I care about is they are not put in silly places where they are not efficent.

Xav

[Sketer]

You beat me to it. I know the guy who owns the land on the western of the lake. He wanted them as they are drought proof income for him as a farmer. BUT other people who have Power didn't want them nearby, that's the story as told to me.

Sketer

[Bundalene]

I'd have them in my backyard any day.... I think they are going to be one of the major ways we make any impact on our pollution. The only issue is how noisy they are!! All I care about is they are not put in silly places where they are not efficent.

Xav

X3 !

[d@rk51d3]

While they are ugly, I can appreciate the bigger picture.


Mind you, we could have them put around Parliament House.


They'd blow like billy-o.

[solmanic]

You ain't seen nothing...

Eastern Germany is littered with the things. There the poor farmers are paid government subsidies to have them on their land so it's more cost effective to farm wind than anything else.

The most bizarre ladscape for these things I have seen is a place just to the east of San Francisco called Altamont Pass. This has long been a sort of testing ground for wind turbines so there are thousands of the things - all different shapes and sizes. Most of them seemed to not be working when we were there. The locals said that the older ones would just be left to rot into the ground when they finally reached the end of their design life.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/solmanic42/altamont_pass.jpg

This is a googled photo but it doesn't convey the absolute hodge-podge of different styles. If you can think of a style of wind turbine, then it is probably there. They go for miles and miles beside I580 out to Tracy (which was in the news recently for some-such human garbage tradgedy).

[JohnE]

I was reading the written signage about the ones near me (near Blayney) and I think with those ones at least, when the wind speeds gets too high they stop them.

ok, here is some info from Country Energy on Crookwells wind farm.
[/list]


Your near the Blayney Ones, my mate lives on the opposite shore of Carcoar Dam and faces them, got to admit they were pretty ugly when they put them in. But your right i have watched them and the pitch changes on the props and they stop so they don;t over speed.
When I was in greece a couple of years ago, there were hundreds of them on the ranges near where my fathers village is, No one made any comments about how ugly they were. except me.


john

[zulu Delta 534]

The cockies down near Edithvale in SA only get around $3000 per stand p/a on their property and they can still run sheep.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/viewfromlighthouseSmall.jpg
That would pay for a land rover restoration each year and I think I could put up with the visual impact, after all I seem to get by looking at some of the architect designed structures dotted around the country, and as for that dish thing monstrosity at Parkes, well I rest my case!
I was quite interested to note that the generators on Cape Jervis in SA are run by Tarong power.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii115/glenpats/StarfishhillWindfarmCapeJervisSmall.jpg
But then again, they aren't in my back yard either.
Regards
Glen

[Xavie]

This is a googled photo but it doesn't convey the absolute hodge-podge of different styles. If you can think of a style of wind turbine, then it is probably there. They go for miles and miles beside I580 out to Tracy (which was in the news recently for some-such human garbage tradgedy).

I think that is totally mind blowing and awesome!

Imagine the amount of UFO's which would go flying in to them (according to the news). It would be like E.T. extravaganza!

Once I can finally move to the sticks I just hope I can find a property that would be suitable to house these sorts of things. I was also reading that their design life is becoming longer and more efficent.

[B92 8NW]

I think that is totally mind blowing and awesome!

Imagine the amount of UFO's which would go flying in to them (according to the news). It would be like E.T. extravaganza!


Which news was this in?

[Xavie]

hahaha.... funnily enough i thought about you and your avatar when I saw it!

It was ch 10.... And happened in America... Don't worry though as thye are taking the blade which broke off due to the flying saucer collision to the lab for testing! they say it may have kryponite all over it (Well I say that haha)

[hoadie72]

Nope - sorry - your are all wrong :D- they are ugly.

Lets build them in your backyard:)

So each of these can power only 250 electric steam irons - wow:mad:

Yes I admire the engineering but :mad:. It is a wonder they did not build them on top of the escarpment to the west of the lake where the winds are stronger and even more consistent - I would rather watch the eagles that were soaring the air waves when I took the long range shots than inefficient wind mills.

GrrrrWhat would you prefer - a nuclear powerplant in your backyard?

[SuperMono]

If you find these ugly and don't want more of them the answer is fairly simple.

Turn off all of your electrical devices.
Don't buy anything manufactured or processed.
Only use hand tools to build things.

Problem solved :)

[waynep]

Nah we Victorians'll just burn a bit more smokey brown coal for ya ..... ;)

open cast coalmines ...much prettier than windmills.:)

[CowsGoMoo]

Had a look at the Toora wind farm down in Victoria (Gippsland) while on holidays. Huge things up close. Made a bit of noise but I reckon I'd get used to it.

Had lots of cows running around them. They didn't look too worried. They were more interested in the humans looking back at them.

[CowsGoMoo]

hahaha.... funnily enough i thought about you and your avatar when I saw it!

It was ch 10.... And happened in America... Don't worry though as thye are taking the blade which broke off due to the flying saucer collision to the lab for testing! they say it may have kryponite all over it (Well I say that haha)

There's a report from a turbine being hit by something in the UK.

Video - Wind turbine hit by UFO? - Sydney Morning Herald (http://media.smh.com.au/?rid=45103)

[isuzurover]

I may be wrong but I understand that these things do not generate a lot of power and when all is considered in the "whole of life" context- power generated vs use in build and maintenance I believe energy produced is minimal.

I drove past these recently... I don't think they look too bad.

Actually you are quite wrong. Wind generators have high up-front costs but a long operational life and almost no ongoing costs (unlike other power sources where fuel is the MAIN cost).

A single wind generator can be rated at 6+ MW these days. In Germany, wind generators have been found on average to produce 15-20% of their installed capacity. In Australia the numbers are more like 25-45%.

The bottom line is that wind is the 3rd or 4th cheapest way to generate power - after coal, natural gas, and geothermal.

[hoadie72]

Wind turbines in Germany are producing enough electricity that they've been able to shut down at least 2 nuclear power plants.

[Captain_Rightfoot]

Ron, that would be such a good water based slalom course!!!

Bring on a RedBull airrace around them! :wasntme::eek::D

[Sleepy]

I wouldn't want one in my backyard.:o

YouTube - A Vestas wind system fail and crashes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEccgR0q-o&feature=related)

[Captain_Rightfoot]

To be honest, I wouldn't want a coal fired power station within a 20k radius of my backyard. :o

[3toes]

One thing which seems to be constant is that wind farms always seem to bring out strong reactions.

First came across a wind farm in about 1987 when was on the big island of Hawaii. There was a valley there which was full of them. Seems that the wind in the valley blew at a constant speed all year round. Would like to think that the technology has moved on since then.

Most places that these are put up do not have the constant wind they need and hence only run when can. This causes problems with the grid as you cannot just turn the key and start up a power station. So you end up with power stations sufficience to cover the wind power ticking over just in case the wind stops. Or when there is no wind at the right time. Remember there are significant peaks and troughs in power demand.

While the word am about to use is seen by some on here as a profanity seems that hydrogen is going to be the saviour of wind power. They are now converting the wind generated power into hydrogen so the power can be stored and released into the network at a measured and reliable rate.

[101 Ron]

I think the wind generators at Blaney are OK as there are only three or four of them and not hundreds.
I can see the advantages in them in the long run.
The western side of lake George is no good for wind generators , I know from first hand experience from flying ultralites from lake george itself ,the wind rotors on a westerly( the prevailing wind direction)are murderous at most times and these rotors cause micro wind strenght and direction changes.
The eastern side of the lake would be much better and would be harder to see for some of the public who dont like them.
It is intersting to note Newcastle has a large wind generator only a few Ks from the centre of the city and I have seen people stopping to get their photo taken in front of the generator ,in this case you are allowed to stand directly below the spining blades.
I think if carefully done in correct numbers and spacing they are the way to go and one of the few green energy ideas that really seen to make a cost effective difference in the real world.
I do think a coal , nuclear or hectares of solar collectors would be a bigger eye sore................may It is just not in my back yard syndrome....we need the clean energy.

[Rangier Rover]

I'm not against them as have just put up a 80mtr mast to monitor the wind here on our high ridges. I'm not sure if I will get used to the look of them yet but don't like the sub stations and over head lines that come with a project:(

I hate coal mines digging up our good land and dirty power stations that are doing a lot of harm:mad: Our fences here are rusting as a result of easterly drizzle and it smells like sulphur:mad:

I am open minded but it's nuclear, wind, solar, Hydro and hydrogen cells as a mix.

Just a thought. Why not set up hydro on all storage dam walls and pump the water back when grids are over run with power from excess wind cycles/+ off peak while power stations throttle back. Similar to the snowy hydro systems.
Pics of the mast....

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13995&stc=1&d=1236049744

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13996&stc=1&d=1236050185

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13997&stc=1&d=1236050330


Tony.

[hoadie72]

Does anyone know what happened to the planned solar plant in the outback that was a massive glass tower several hundred, maybe even 1km, tall that superheated air which then drove a turbine?

[29dinosaur]

I used to drive past the Crookwell wind mills every day and they were an attractive sight. The sheep and farmers of the district have no problem with them. The farm at Albany is tucked away from the town and cause no visual pollution as such.

[StephenF10]

Does anyone know what happened to the planned solar plant in the outback that was a massive glass tower several hundred, maybe even 1km, tall that superheated air which then drove a turbine?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_updraft_tower

The relevant bit says:

"EnviroMission has since 2001 proposed to build a solar updraft tower power generating station known as Solar Tower Buronga at a location near Buronga, New South Wales. Technical details of the project are difficult to obtain and the present status of the project is uncertain."

Buronga is on the NSW side of the Murray from Mildura.

Stephen.