why Kevin Rudd's internet censorship plan will not work

[DiscoTDI]

The new internet censorship plan hasn't been put through and they are already telling us how to get around it:D:D:D:D:D

AdelaideNow... Opinion - why Kevin Rudd's internet censorship plan will not work (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24876765-5006301,00.html)

[p38arover]

Right. How do I set up a VPN?

[300+]

The article is a bit simplistic.

You need a system on the other end to create a VPN with. You can't do it on your own.

To set up your own VPN you would need to put a computer somewhere else the the world with a unregulated internet connection and create a VPN to it. Clearly this won't work for individuals.

What you need is some budding entrepreneur to build a commercial system like that.

You can find some here:
anonymous web surfing - Google Search (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=anonymous+web+surfing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)

The first thing the filter will need to do is block all access to these sites. Best hope they don't change very often or it will be pretty hard to keep up.

You can also use a more conventional corporate VPN - I work for a US company with a VPN so I could probably make all my traffic route over the VPN. Needless to say my employer would not like me using their links for illegal activities and it would be a monumentality stupid way to get fired.

The filter will fail, not for performance reasons, but because it will be evaded, cause political backlash, etc.

An interesting point of fact is that Howard wanted the filter to be opt in, Rudd wanted it to be mandatory with the option to out out if you sent a letter to the govt asking for permission to view porn, or how ever it will be implemented.

Cheers, Steve

[Xavie]

I think what they are talking about doing is a bit scary really. I can see positives but I don't believe it will be used with the positives in mind and I think it will become harmful in the long term.

[Ralph1Malph]

It will be circumvented, soon as it's implemented. Jeez, kids are still hacking NASA and the Pentagon as we speak, this will be a piece of cake to these chaps!

BTW,
We australians are only getting what we voted for! No political rant here, but I for one am prepared to see how it goes because the majority of us voted for it! If it affects my surfing pleasure, then measures will be taken!:twisted::twisted::twisted: (Not sure what but they will be taken!););)

Mmm... must contact my federal member and see how he intends to vote on the floor of Parliament re this legislation.

Ralph

[Lotz-A-Landies]

All the porn brokers will do is set up web portals, machines in Aust where they create a VPN to their own machines elsewhere. All you do is make the portal your first contact and then everything after that are links through the portal.

There used to be a portal in Iceland designed to stop people back-tracking. There are probably many thousands of others.

[300+]

This is about much more than porn. This is about not wanting the govt to see every website I try to visit and then deciding if it is OK or not.

How anonymous will it be? Say you do some research on tax minimisation, will this info end up in the hands of the ATO and they "randomly select" you for an audit?

I work as a security consultant and my work takes me to some pretty low places - where the criminals are and where they get their information from. I'm going to have to ask for an exemption from the filter and no doubt be flagged as a filthy porn surfer in some database as a result.

Cheers, Steve

[stuee]

It will be circumvented, soon as it's implemented. Jeez, kids are still hacking NASA and the Pentagon as we speak, this will be a piece of cake to these chaps!

BTW,
We australians are only getting what we voted for! No political rant here, but I for one am prepared to see how it goes because the majority of us voted for it!

Ralph

I'm not prepared to see how it goes. I didn't vote for labour and I'm sure if you asked 80-90% of labour voters they wouldn't of had a ****ing clue that this was going to be put through (most would be focused primarily on the IR laws). Prior to the election you were also able to opt out. Now its mandatory. Howard tried a similar venture and failed misrably (Everyone loves to bag out Howard...). There was massive backlash and it was hacked by a young teenager. This system is not even out yet and already theres guides out on how to circumvent the filter. Yet for all its flaws, high cost, its ability to be cirumvented, the power it gives the govt to determine what 80% of the technologically inept population can read about and you want to give it a go:eek:

[JDNSW]

There is another thread on this earlier.

Without repeating everything in it, there are a whole range of issues. These include:-

1. It won't work - easily circumvented; VPNs are already set up for the benefit of Chinese and other people in censored countries, and there are other ways round it as well, plus it does not cover anything except websites, although trials are planned for filtering FTP operations (the mind boggles as to whether it can do anything other than blacklist FTP sites not what is transferred - possibly look at filenames, but these can obviously be changed).

2. It won't work - will block legitimate sites. A prime example is the (voluntary) blacklist in the UK that effectively blocked Wikepedia for most Britons a month or so ago - this blacklist, privately maintained, is planned to be used as part of the input by Conroy's scheme.

3. The criteria for blocking and filtering are secret, and as far as I can see are planned to remain secret. This makes the system overwhelmingly open to the temptation of political censorship. With the criteria secret and the whole operation shrouded in secrecy there is no appeal available (unlike movie and book censorship)

4. Despite the secrecy, you can bet that the opt out list will not remain secret and if you opt out you can expect to see that fact turn up when you are looking for a security clearance, custody of your children in divorce, a permit to work with children, or even a job.


There are other points, but that should be enough to go on with.

John

[George130]

OK yes there are benafits in some situations but a parent should ensure the kids are protected while on the net.
Beyond that this is an out right attempt to control the population by what it seas.
All hail the supreme overlord!

Maybe then be upfront and give out free one wa tickets to gitmo for thouse found looking at what they don't want you to.

[Scallops]

I'm only going to kick up a stink when I try to log onto AULRO and it's blocked! You know, we 4 wheel drive enthusiasts are real social menaces. :p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

OK yes there are benefits in some situations but a parent should ensure the kids are protected while on the net....<snip>That IS a parents responsibility, they should have internet filtering on their machine or internet filtering from an ISP.

Why should my browsing be impacted by an artificial list designed by others with their own agendas. Will we be blocked from sites that advocate Darwinism because we get legislative concessions made to a Senator who is a creationist?

I am already blocked at work from a site for Land Rovers with 9.00 16 tyres (http://900club.19.forumer.com/index.php)because the US Government provided filter software recognises the site as one of "racism and hate".

Lactation Consultants at the Royal Hospital for Women are unable to access sites on maternal feeding and lactation because "breasts" are filtered.

It goes on and on, any filter that this legislation enables will not be any better than the one employed by the NSW Government. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

<snip> ... Beyond that this is an out right attempt to control the population by what it seas.
All hail the supreme overlord!

[JDNSW]

That IS a parents responsibility, they should have internet filtering on their machine or internet filtering from an ISP.

Why should my browsing be impacted by an artificial list designed by others with their own agendas. Will we be blocked from sites that advocate Darwinism because we get legislative concessions made to a Senator who is a creationist?

I am already blocked at work from a site for Land Rovers with 9.00 16 tyres (http://900club.19.forumer.com/index.php)because the US Government provided filter software recognises the site as one of "racism and hate".

Lactation Consultants at the Royal Hospital for Women are unable to access sites on maternal feeding and lactation because "breasts" are filtered.

It goes on and on, any filter that this legislation enables will not be any better than the one employed by the NSW Government. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The best story I've heard of to date is that the Qld government filter blocked the Qld Hansard! (Debates in Parliament about something the filter didn't like I believe, rather than the language used in the debates)

John

[300+]

I am already blocked at work from a site for Land Rovers with 9.00 16 tyres (http://900club.19.forumer.com/index.php)because the US Government provided filter software recognises the site as one of "racism and hate".


This is the failing of some web filters. forumer is a generic host your forum here site. If one user of forumer does something wrong then the software will block all forums on the site, without checking them. Guilt by association is a problem with some filters.

Cheers, Steve

[Xavie]

This is about much more than porn. This is about not wanting the govt to see every website I try to visit and then deciding if it is OK or not.



Cheers, Steve


Yes I think here lies the problem. Most of the people that I have discussed this with seem to think it is purely about porn. But I think the truth is that it hasn't had good exposure through the everyday media channels and no real explanation of it has been given. And I also don't think their is any comprehensive guide to this something makes me believe the govt will make it up as they go. Many things I ahve read and watched try to say it oculd end up like China and how heavily and harshly they block out websites.... I thought it was an extreme view but now I'm starting to wonder.

[cartm58]

Knew Senator Conroy when he worked for the TWU in Victoria, wasn't impressed then by him, impressed even less now, just another right wing labour politician pushing his own agenda based on his family first views of life.

[abaddonxi]

Remember the international fuss that was kicked up during the last Olympics when journo's discovered that they're interenet was being blocked by the Chinese government. I can't imagine that our government would be so silly as put themselves in a similar position.

As someone mentioned in an earlier thread, soon as the next scandal comes along it'll be quietly scotched.

Simon

[JDNSW]

Remember the international fuss that was kicked up during the last Olympics when journo's discovered that they're interenet was being blocked by the Chinese government. I can't imagine that our government would be so silly as put themselves in a similar position.
........

Simon

This is exactly what they are planning on doing though - the only essential difference between the Chinese effort and Conroy's is that Conroy is keeping even quieter than the Chinese about what is to be actually blocked "illegal and other unwanted sites" I think were the words. At least the Chinese are pretty upfront about what they are blocking. (I refer to the blacklist, not the porn filter - two different things, but same mindset).

John

[JDNSW]

One of the major shortcomings of any censorship scheme is a complete lack of agreement on what should be censored, even for children.

As a real life example of this a few days ago, I was visiting a great niece (35) a few days ago. We were sitting in the lounge room talking, and I mentioned my granddaughter (7) did not want to fly on a plane again after seeing "Snakes on a Plane". My niece expressed her horror that any parent allowed a seven year old to see that - opposite where we were sitting was a 42" TV with some program running about gang violence in L.A., with graphic images of gangland executions, including closeups of fatal injuries and surveillance camera footage of murders and assaults; at the time there were nine children in the room, aged from two to thirteen.

John

[DiscoTDI]

Look on the bright side maybe one day we will all be able to bang our drums in unison :angel:

[300+]

Look on the bright side maybe one day we will all be able to bang our drums in unison :angel:

But that will only be because we all get our drum music from the official web site.



Steve

[CaverD3]

Labour government = conservative economic policy + socilist social policy.

The idea came from a left wing think tank along with the idea of taxing unhealthy foods.:mad:

No fun at the cricket, restrictions on drinking....they'll ban smoking in pubs next.oh they already did that.:angel:

Here comes the nanny state Blair did it in the UK now Rudd wants a go.:twisted:

[Quiggers]

Nuts!

[Dmmos]

As a real life example of this a few days ago, I was visiting a great niece (35) a few days ago. We were sitting in the lounge room talking, and I mentioned my granddaughter (7) did not want to fly on a plane again after seeing "Snakes on a Plane". My niece expressed her horror that any parent allowed a seven year old to see that...

lol, funny you should mention that, as an old neighbour had a daughter (6 at the time) - and she told me this was her favourite film :o

[p38arover]

As a real life example of this a few days ago, I was visiting a great niece (35) a few days ago. We were sitting in the lounge room talking, and I mentioned my granddaughter (7) did not want to fly on a plane again after seeing "Snakes on a Plane". My niece expressed her horror that any parent allowed a seven year old to see that

I had people tell me that they never let their children watch Dr Who because of all the horrors in that! My kids watched it with me from the time they could sit on my knee, i.e., less than 2yo.

[George130]

That IS a parents responsibility, they should have internet filtering on their machine or internet filtering from an ISP.

Why should my browsing be impacted by an artificial list designed by others with their own agendas. Will we be blocked from sites that advocate Darwinism because we get legislative concessions made to a Senator who is a creationist?

I am already blocked at work from a site for Land Rovers with 9.00 16 tyres (http://900club.19.forumer.com/index.php)because the US Government provided filter software recognises the site as one of "racism and hate".

Lactation Consultants at the Royal Hospital for Women are unable to access sites on maternal feeding and lactation because "breasts" are filtered.

It goes on and on, any filter that this legislation enables will not be any better than the one employed by the NSW Government. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Sorry articulated my view a little of here. I agree with you 100%.
We have similar issues at work. We actually have a seperate internet account we run on a stand alone computer just for research and downloads that are blocked on the network:angel:.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Wot George 130 said X 10.

The manager in charge of clinical equipment for the Children's Hospital gets blocked looking at beds, chairs and sofa beds for parent accommodation because of "shopping", the community health people get blocked from looking at community organisations because "social networking" is on the list. Similarly for the people dealing with HIV/AIDS and anything to do the the gay community. Unfortunately we're not allowed to have a machine outside the network domain because of the computer use monitoring and surveillance.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:

[dobbo]

well got to us, you'll see no more worktime antics from me..

[barney]

who the hell do they think they are?
all of a sudden we live in a communist regime.
as many have said before, it's up to parents to ensure their kids are viewing apppropriate content. when i was a boy, my parents would not let me watch tv shows like number 96 because of the adult contact, and equally with prisoner because it had the effect of lowering my IQ by just being in the same room when it was on.
the article uses the excuse of protecting kids from online kiddie fiddlers. news flash! that wont stop it, everytime they out another one of the kiddie porn rings, they mention the name and they are never called "child porn site" or "pictures for paedophiles". these knobs call things what they want and no amount of filtering will ever totally stop it.
their was mention of watch lists and monitoring of internet usage ( they do this in China), and getting put on a general watch list for making a simple search, i wouldn't want to be mistaken for a tax cheat when all i was searching for was porn, that could destroy a guys' social standing.:wasntme: note the balance of votes, for and against? 4% v 95%

[Dmmos]

i wouldn't want to be mistaken for a tax cheat when all i was searching for was porn

:Rolling:

[warren9981]

What's wrong with the ISP providing the content filtering as mine does. I can nominate what is or isn't filtered and at what time of the day or night. I can then let the kids freely loose and they are unable to go to inappropriate sites. I also only have internet access available in the lounge room. The kids own computers do not have internet access.
Works well for me. Don't need the government to provide censorship on my behalf thank you very much.:)

[DiscoTDI]

What's wrong with the ISP providing the content filtering as mine does. I can nominate what is or isn't filtered and at what time of the day or night. I can then let the kids freely loose and they are unable to go to inappropriate sites. I also only have internet access available in the lounge room. The kids own computers do not have internet access.
Works well for me. Don't need the government to provide censorship on my behalf thank you very much.:)


There you go thinking away, be careful the Labour govt newly formed free thought police will take you to a rehabilitation camp so that you can learn to love what you are told to do.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/1119.jpg

If I was better on the computer I would change Ned to Krudd:angel:

[feral]

What's wrong with the ISP providing the content filtering as mine does. I can nominate what is or isn't filtered and at what time of the day or night. I can then let the kids freely loose and they are unable to go to inappropriate sites. I also only have internet access available in the lounge room. The kids own computers do not have internet access.
Works well for me. Don't need the government to provide censorship on my behalf thank you very much.:)


Oh yes you do. That is what governments do. No matter how stupid, idiotic and unworkable the idea is they will implement it just to show that they are doing something.

With this particular issue the average person in the street will back the government to get rid of any perceived nasties. It is only the geeks and the informed who are saying it will not work.

There are more votes to grab in the average person than for the geeks. That is the governments other job...to get re-elected for another term.

[abaddonxi]

Government uploads hypocrisy with internet censorship | theage.com.au (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/government-uploads-hypocrisy-with-internet-censorship-20081109-5kuz.html)


Communications Minister Stephen Conroy told Radio National's Media Report recently that the aim of the project is to "protect Australian families and kids from some material that is currently on the net . . . such as child pornography and ultra-violent sites".Maybe I'm not reading this stuff correctly, but if you had a way to identify child pornography websites, and were able to block their IP addresses so that no one in Australia could see them.

Well, wouldn't it just be easier to send that information to the relevant police, etc. in that country and shut them down?

I'm sure I'm simplifying the argument, but I suspect that child pornography hosting has a lot more to do with high tech jiggery pokery and subterfuge, and a lot less to do with countries that will happily allow anyone to host anything.

Back to the point, I don't think there really is a way to find and block kiddie porn or everyone would be already using it to arrest kiddie pornographers.

Sorry, what else are they going to block?

That's right, porn and subversive material.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What's wrong with the ISP providing the content filtering as mine does. I can nominate what is or isn't filtered and at what time of the day or night. ...The problem is how the sites are identified, the pornographers refuse to identify their sites correctly so it is up to third party sites to analyse the site content and then list the site for the filters. For example the filter at work blocks "sports and recreation", however AuLRO is not content identified so I can access it from work while other 4WD sites are blocked. This is the same way porn sites get around filters, sometimes identifying themselves as G rated.

P.S. I don't have a pornograph attached to my computer so I can't read pornography. :D

P.P.S. Inc - don't do anything about changing any rating on this site lest I disappear in working hours.

[ivery819]

This issue will not go away.

Click Here (http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20090123-So-Conroys-internet-filter-wont-block-political-speech-eh-.html) for another example

Click here (http://libertus.net/censor/netcensor.html) for much more detail on this scheme

For those who think this is just about porn ...........
Content that is deemed 'unsuitable' will result in sites being blocked.
Any environmentalist will say that driving a 4x4 off-road into a forest is highly undesirable. These same people have extraordinary sway ( through green preferences ) over the mainstream parties. One complaint to the authority overseeing the filter (particularly when backed up with support from the 'greens') will result in that site being put on the hidden list of banned sites with no right of appeal. As a result of having any content regarding the undesirable practice of off-road driving the site will simply disappear.
Good-bye AULRO and all other 4wd sites. No I'm not joking !

[DiscoTDI]

This issue will not go away.

Click Here (http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20090123-So-Conroys-internet-filter-wont-block-political-speech-eh-.html) for another example

Click here (http://libertus.net/censor/netcensor.html) for much more detail on this scheme

For those who think this is about porn ...........
Content that is deemed 'unsuitable' will result in sites being blocked.
Any environmentalist will say that driving a 4x4 off road into a forest is highly undesirable. These same people have extraordinary sway ( through green preferences ) over the mainstream parties. One complaint to the authority overseeing the filter (particularly when backed up with support from the 'greens') will result on that site being put on the hidden list of banned sites with no right of appeal. As a result of having any content regarding the undesirable practice of off-road driving the site will simply disappear.
Good bye AULRO and all other 4wd sites. No I'm not joking !

Thats a bit nasty:eek:

[BMKal]

P.S. I don't have a pornograph attached to my computer so I can't read pornography. :D

So that's what the problem is !!!!! :eek::eek:

Where can I buy me a pornograph ???

[ivery819]

BMKal
Quote:
Where can I buy me a pornograph ???
ANSWER :

e-bay

Then they can ban it as well.:cool:

[hook]

FREEDOM of SPEACH:twisted:

then we can also get a new flag.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/95.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/96.jpg

Censorship saves on book burning.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/97.jpg


This is the one I LOVE and will live under


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/98.jpg

[DiscoTDI]

FREEDOM of SPEACH:twisted:

then we can also get a new flag.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/95.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/96.jpg

Censorship saves on book burning.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/97.jpg


This is the one I LOVE and will live under


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/01/98.jpg

Careful flying that last one, you might offend someone:angel:

[ivery819]

Yeh !

Is that Australian flag made from environmentally friendly material and is it bio-degradable ?

Oh ! It's made in China.
That's alright then.......proceed.

[p38arover]

AULRO is blocked at work - along with nearly everything else.

AULRO is identified as a forum.

Hobbies , Entertainment, shopping, music, videos, picture hosting sites, my own website, anything that is categorised as Web Hosting - all are blocked.

Banking allowed as part of a 60 minute quota (given in 10 minute blocks. If you don't use the 10 mins, you lose the remainder. Ditto news.

What's allowed? Not much.

[George130]

AULRO is blocked at work - along with nearly everything else.

AULRO is identified as a forum.

Hobbies , Entertainment, shopping, music, videos, picture hosting sites, my own website, anything that is categorised as Web Hosting - all are blocked.

Banking allowed as part of a 60 minute quota (given in 10 minute blocks. If you don't use the 10 mins, you lose the remainder. Ditto news.

What's allowed? Not much.
Same with our work. Sites are also manually blocked if they get noticed and the top 100 internet users each month get investigated as to what they are looking at.