CDL Actuation with 10mm Spanner

[simonl8353]

Finally got around to locking in the centre diff using a 10mm spanner (on the driveway) just to know it can be done in case I break a prop or something. All good.

With the ignition on (engine not running) using open end 10mm spanner on the transfer case spigot you can feel with your fingers, give it a quarter turn, easy! Need to have the ignition on when you engage it, that way you still maintain TC, ABS and HDC.

The CDL light even comes on on the dash! cool :cool:

Its not the easiest of access and if the engine, exhaust, transfer box was all hot you'd probably end up with 3rd deg burns. :eek:

Has anyone else, had to engage this with a hot engine, any tips?

[rathies]

put 2x8mm nuts onto the thread and tighten them against each other. then its even easier to reach with a socket or similiar. its fiddly to get the nuts on though.

[jmkoffice]

No tips really Mate. You either install a factory or aftermarket actuator or not. If not, using the CDL is going to be difficult to engage when you need it. If you choose this path, be aware if you get stuck playing, going under the vehicle can be lethal depending on it's position, balance etc.

[Peppercorn]

This is another confusion of mine that I have read here a few times.

Why do you have to get under the car tolock in the CDL????

I have a second gear stick for that.

Can someone enlighten me please??????

[disco_mitch]

This is another confusion of mine that I have read here a few times.

Why do you have to get under the car tolock in the CDL????

I have a second gear stick for that.

Can someone enlighten me please??????

what model is yours if its an early model maybe someone put it on there

[loanrangie]

This is another confusion of mine that I have read here a few times.

Why do you have to get under the car tolock in the CDL????

I have a second gear stick for that.

Can someone enlighten me please??????

When the D2 came our LR in their wisdom left the CDL lever off although the mechanism is still in the transfer case. I cant remember the exact years but in later models maybe 2000/2001 there was no mechanism in the transfer at all and then in about 2003 they starting fitting the full setup again. So on early models you need to climb under and actuate it with a spanner or fit 1 of the many aftermarket kits available.

[loanrangie]

Finally got around to locking in the centre diff using a 10mm spanner (on the driveway) just to know it can be done in case I break a prop or something. All good.

With the ignition on (engine not running) using open end 10mm spanner on the transfer case spigot you can feel with your fingers, give it a quarter turn, easy! Need to have the ignition on when you engage it, that way you still maintain TC, ABS and HDC.

The CDL light even comes on on the dash! cool :cool:

Its not the easiest of access and if the engine, exhaust, transfer box was all hot you'd probably end up with 3rd deg burns. :eek:

Has anyone else, had to engage this with a hot engine, any tips?

Simon i have a mig and are close by so if want to make a lever so you can at least engage it easily let me know ;).

regards,
Nick.

[mcrover]

This is another confusion of mine that I have read here a few times.

Why do you have to get under the car tolock in the CDL????

I have a second gear stick for that.

Can someone enlighten me please??????

The early D2's came out with the CDL (Centre Diff Lock) fitted to the transfer case but with no shifter in the cabin to enguage it.

It was apparently thought by LR that the TC (Traction Control) would make the CDL unnessesary and eventually removed it from the TC altogether.

Eventually though (By 2001? I believe) they came to their sensors and put it back in and fitted a shifter much like the D1 to be able to lock it from the cabin.

There are a few kits available to enguage it as well as people fitting the later model (or D1) shifter mechanisms to the earlier D2's, the best Ive seen on this forum is Redbacks

[scarry]

The CDL with in cabin lever returned in the 03/04 model,with the pocket lights etc.There are lots of rumours as to why it was not originally installed in the early D2.We will probably never know the real reason.....

And it was around 01/02 model run where there was no connection on the box to fit a CDL:(

[Peppercorn]

Thanks guys

It seems so weird that they would build the centre diff lock in but then decide not to use it??

I know that Landrover are famous for their strange decisions over the years but this one is pretty lame at best!!!

I am slowly getting up to speed with the Disco but it will take some time and I suppose I'll continue to break in here and there and ask dumb questions until I get up to speed.

thanks for the explanations! This is a great forum full of friendlies

[Hastykiwi]

Mate, this is spooky:eek:. I was outside, under my D2 doing EXACTLY the same thing. Easy peasy. I turned it on with the ign off, first time, and the Tc operated as normal, however after the following shutdown and restart, then the TC turned off.

its gotta be karma dude..:cool:

Nick

[simonl8353]

Simon i have a mig and are close by so if want to make a lever so you can at least engage it easily let me know ;).

regards,
Nick.
Thanks mate. I might go down that path eventually. I've seen some good designs for connecting handles to make it easier to engage from outside the car. For looks and to keep the car as original as possible I'd really prefer the original LR linkage kit as described by Redback a while ago http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html) But at around $600/$700 and a days effort to install I doubt that will happen soon.

[gofish]

I am in the same boat & want to get this sorted one day. I still cant believe that someone out there has not fabricated a relatively cheap & easy solution. The prices that they are asking for these (AMV,Ritters,etc) is incredible considering what you are actually doing. I'm sure that someone who knew what they were doing could make some good coin.....I'll buy one :angel:

[mcrover]

Is there somewhere that you could put a choke cable type handle which has about 4" behind it clear, if so I could do something relatively cheap, just got to work out the arm and a bracket to mount the cable, dead simple but not all that pretty.

I have seen a set up like that in a magazine once before, the cable came up inside the cubby box in the consul.

I could probably get 20 or so arms pressed out relatively cheap, the bracket would be a bit more work and the cable is a matter of drilling a hole and running the cable.

[SmokyBear]

No way I'd pay that much!
Keep an eye open in the wreckers. I found one from a 2004 model. The wrecker wanted $450 for it, but I cried poor & he sold it to me for $385.
Installation was easy, all done from inside the cabin - about 2 hours total, and I'm no mechanic!



Thanks mate. I might go down that path eventually. I've seen some good designs for connecting handles to make it easier to engage from outside the car. For looks and to keep the car as original as possible I'd really prefer the original LR linkage kit as described by Redback a while ago http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html) But at around $600/$700 and a days effort to install I doubt that will happen soon.

[Hastykiwi]

There are a number of cable based systems available. One outfit over east does it for about $410, which for a bracket, lever, and cable is, ahem..., a lot. Beefy on this forum told me he got one from rovercraft (i think) for about $300.

I guess if you simply take the sum of the parts, you should be talking about $50-100, so Mcrover, if your up for it, I will take one on order from u.

Nick.

[Ferret]

Hi Mcrover

I would also be interested in an order if you are thinking of knocking up an arm , bracket and cable arrangement. Given the number of threads relating to the D2 CDL here I reckon you would have little trouble filling your order books.

[CowsGoMoo]

Mate, this is spooky:eek:. I was outside, under my D2 doing EXACTLY the same thing. Easy peasy. I turned it on with the ign off, first time, and the Tc operated as normal, however after the following shutdown and restart, then the TC turned off.

its gotta be karma dude..:cool:

Nick

Not quite as spooky, but yesterday morning I was wishing I'd been under checking how to engage the CDL. After a little drive around Stockton I wish I had....

[CowsGoMoo]

Hi Mcrover

I would also be interested in an order if you are thinking of knocking up an arm , bracket and cable arrangement. Given the number of threads relating to the D2 CDL here I reckon you would have little trouble filling your order books.

Yep, I could be interested. :)

[Rosscoe68]

anyone half reasonable with a welder could do what i did for my cdl

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cvwP9OwkabE/SWrv7p64-MI/AAAAAAAACW0/C5TyNoS9Bmo/s512/P1121205.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cvwP9OwkabE/SWrxAGG5SOI/AAAAAAAACX0/PPoSUR98jNc/s640/P1121206.JPG

hole in the centre console is a little dodge as i didnt actually measure and missed by about 15mm . the rod has a socket and knuckle welded on one end and a tbar on the top end. drops down the hole and onto the nut and engages disengages without getting out of the car. i have it silastic'd in place and is out of the road for all normal functions on the centre console. could have been neater but its only a car after all.

[mcrover]

Looks as though I need to find someone with a D2 that I can get some measurements off.

I will post up a new thread when Im organised, I will make some calls in the nest couple of weeks, the engineering shop I use isnt re-opening until the 27th so I wont know anything until some time after that.

[29dinosaur]

Is there somewhere that you could put a choke cable type handle which has about 4" behind it clear, if so I could do something relatively cheap, just got to work out the arm and a bracket to mount the cable, dead simple but not all that pretty.

I have seen a set up like that in a magazine once before, the cable came up inside the cubby box in the consul.

I could probably get 20 or so arms pressed out relatively cheap, the bracket would be a bit more work and the cable is a matter of drilling a hole and running the cable.

Keep me in loop thanks.

[Shaker]

Check this link out, Enabling the Discovery II Center (http://boothroyd.com/cdl.htm)
It doesn't really look too hard to make, you can an idea of sizes by referencing from the nut.
I would also be interested in buying a kit of this type.

[mcrover]

Check this link out, Enabling the Discovery II Center (http://boothroyd.com/cdl.htm)
It doesn't really look too hard to make, you can an idea of sizes by referencing from the nut.
I would also be interested in buying a kit of this type.

That is pretty much spot on what I have in mind.

[Ballas]

Hi McRover.
I'm ne to the forum - I joined because I have a Series 2 Disco and I'm also having the CDL problems. From what I have read on the varoious forums on the AULRO website, there are heaps of people who lament the ommission of the CDL by Land Rover. I've checked out kits from heaps of Land Rover places around and the prices range as follows 9not including installation):

-AMV - $660 (high/low range), electric with buttons.
-GCA - $470
-RovParts - $
-TRS - $795 (high/ low range), manual cable.
-4x4 systems - no kit sold
-Ritters Automotive - $550 for kit. Manual (therefore high/ low range) with extra knob near range selector.

How have you gone with your enginerring shop? I'd be interested to see how much these would cost. I'm not fussed whether I go a manual set-up, or electric (via an actuator) - if I use the actuator, I want to definitely make sure I get a waterproof solenoid. Rosscoe68 was also going to put up some photos on another posting - http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/38640-cdl-actuator-install-disco-ii.html)

Can anyone also outline how much benefit they have achieved from putting the CDL in place?

[jwb]

Benefit - best mod I've done on my 2002 Td5. I was lucky enough to source the front output housing and shift lever from 2004 model together for $400 so the install looks genuine. I put the CDL in as soon as I'm off the bitumen and it seems to settle the car. Did one trip across the Simpson without CDL and one with. The latter I only saw the TC light come on when climbing hard up soft sand, presumably with reduced weight on the front wheels. Also much safer now on the backing down slippery hills situation. You wont regret the investment.

[Redback]

What ever you do, DON'T GO ELECTRIC, it will not last, I did this and it only lasted 12mths, they rust and get clogged with dust and crap.

Baz.

[simonl8353]

Benefit - best mod I've done on my 2002 Td5. I was lucky enough to source the front output housing and shift lever from 2004 model together for $400 so the install looks genuine. I put the CDL in as soon as I'm off the bitumen and it seems to settle the car. Did one trip across the Simpson without CDL and one with. The latter I only saw the TC light come on when climbing hard up soft sand, presumably with reduced weight on the front wheels. Also much safer now on the backing down slippery hills situation. You wont regret the investment.
x 2, completely agree. ASAP I will be re-instating the CDL with a genuine kit. I used the CDL with a 10mm spanner but its not a convenient way to engage it. The performance improvement on any off-road surface is significant!.

I made a cheapie kit 2 weeks ago (on another thread). While it worked, I couldnt get it to fit cleanly due to the ACE and other cables in the way (on my ES D2)

[bruiser69]

A wiper motor is fairly highly geared & should have sufficient torque to activate CDL if connected to a suitably modified 10mm spanner. All you would need is a bracket to mount wiper motor & two way switch to reverse polarity in cabin. Has anyone tried this?

Cheers..Bruce

[Redback]

What ever you do, DON'T GO ELECTRIC, it will not last, I did this and it only lasted 12mths, they rust and get clogged with dust and crap.

Baz.


A wiper motor is fairly highly geared & should have sufficient torque to activate CDL if connected to a suitably modified 10mm spanner. All you would need is a bracket to mount wiper motor & two way switch to reverse polarity in cabin. Has anyone tried this?

Cheers..Bruce

Not only me, but a lot of others too.

Baz.

[klappers]

umm will a series one (Disco) system fit?

[jwb]

yes the D1 can fit however it is a lever linkage rather than the D2 cable one and allegedly transmits noise into the cab

[jmkoffice]

yes the D1 can fit however it is a lever linkage rather than the D2 cable one and allegedly transmits noise into the cab
Not allegedly transfers noise, it definitely transfers noise and vibration. This is why the design was changed from a lever operated-direct TC mounted unit to a cable operated-tunnel mount unit.

[DiscoDan]

I priced all the electric kits and went for a TRS kit for $695, seemed dear at the time however better than laying in the mud...

It took me all of 2 hours to fit, and I can disengage it then turn off the car. Restart car and re-engage without TCS getting upset.

Mate paid a bit more for the electric set up and the one time he needed it it failed.

And the car looks factory due to it having factory parts (although later) No holes had to be drilled......only rivets removed and replaced

[jmkoffice]

I priced all the electric kits and went for a TRS kit for $695, seemed dear at the time however better than laying in the mud...

It took me all of 2 hours to fit, and I can disengage it then turn off the car. Restart car and re-engage without TCS getting upset.

Mate paid a bit more for the electric set up and the one time he needed it it failed.

And the car looks factory due to it having factory parts (although later) No holes had to be drilled......only rivets removed and replaced
Dude, I'm with you on the factory look and feel. It's neat, reliable and doesn't devalue the vehicle. Worth the money in the long run.

[Urban Panzer]

I priced all the electric kits and went for a TRS kit for $695, seemed dear at the time however better than laying in the mud...

It took me all of 2 hours to fit, and I can disengage it then turn off the car. Restart car and re-engage without TCS getting upset.

Mate paid a bit more for the electric set up and the one time he needed it it failed.

And the car looks factory due to it having factory parts (although later) No holes had to be drilled......only rivets removed and replaced

Cut the difflock feed to the SLABS ECU and you dont ever need to do even that :) in / out engine on or off, it not matter!!!

[DiscoDan]

Ah yes I have looked at that, however I think I might put in a switch so I can turn off TCS in the sand:)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Why Dan?:)

[Redback]

Why Dan?:)

Why X2, from all accounts the TC works well in sand and mud.

A demo
YouTube - Mud Hole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzq-_3QnOug)

Baz.

[DiscoDan]

I have been told by a few owners and have also read that the TCS goes off pretty bad in soft sand, causing the brakes to heat and the car to slow.

Having not a lot of experience in soft sand and really limited beach work (prefer the bush) I can't say as to whether this would affect me. So I thought having the switch would be the best of both worlds.

Does cutting the wire effect TCS around town?

Danny

[jmkoffice]

I have been told by a few owners and have also read that the TCS goes off pretty bad in soft sand, causing the brakes to heat and the car to slow.

Having not a lot of experience in soft sand and really limited beach work (prefer the bush) I can't say as to whether this would affect me. So I thought having the switch would be the best of both worlds.

Does cutting the wire effect TCS around town?

Danny
Danny, what you have heard is bollocks. If the system is working as designed, it will not over-heat brakes and cause drag. There are a lot of misconceptions about the operation of TC out there.

I traversed the Simpson with a host of different model vehicles (with and without TC) and none of them exhibited any issues.

[Ballas]

Hi Dan. Can you take some photos of the kit in place to see what it looks like 9both underneath and in the cabin (ie lever/ button). You mentioned this was still factory looking - I'm a fan of this, but I can't understand how the manual kit can still look factory in the cabin (with the electric kit, you can obviously use the spare buttons on the dash).

Cheers!

I priced all the electric kits and went for a TRS kit for $695, seemed dear at the time however better than laying in the mud...

It took me all of 2 hours to fit, and I can disengage it then turn off the car. Restart car and re-engage without TCS getting upset.

Mate paid a bit more for the electric set up and the one time he needed it it failed.

And the car looks factory due to it having factory parts (although later) No holes had to be drilled......only rivets removed and replaced

[Redback]

Hi Dan. Can you take some photos of the kit in place to see what it looks like 9both underneath and in the cabin (ie lever/ button). You mentioned this was still factory looking - I'm a fan of this, but I can't understand how the manual kit can still look factory in the cabin (with the electric kit, you can obviously use the spare buttons on the dash).

Cheers!

Hi Ballas, mine is a factory DIIa but basicly the same as the TRS kit, the high/low lever in front of the gearlever looks the same.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSCF0002.jpg

The kit below is from Ashcrofts Transmissions in the UK
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

It basicly replaces your high/low range lever with the D2a style lever allowing you to lock your centre diff.

[Urban Panzer]

I have been told by a few owners and have also read that the TCS goes off pretty bad in soft sand, causing the brakes to heat and the car to slow.

Having not a lot of experience in soft sand and really limited beach work (prefer the bush) I can't say as to whether this would affect me. So I thought having the switch would be the best of both worlds.

Does cutting the wire effect TCS around town?

Danny

All that cutting the wire does is stop the car disabling the TC "if" you engage the Difflock then start the car. it does not affect its normal operation at all.

Why anyone would want a CDL but no TC is beyond me, adding a CDL and having TC as well, is as close as you'll get to having front and rear locking differentials, but without the install cost of those + when you do have a CDL the TC works a LOT less anyway. The more "physical" locks you add, the more redundant the TC becomes.

[Hastykiwi]

Regarding the TC in sand. Generally its not too bad. On the flat, ok, but as said in soft sand and up hill, it can kill your forward momentum. Last trip to calcup hill, we had the chance to observe a stock td5 and stock v8 d2 in these conditions. In the TD5 there was an inherent advantage in that booting it up hills, the was not the power to cause wheel spin as much as in the v8 so TC did not kick in as early but it did kick in causing loss of momentum. In the V8 it just murdered it going up a hill. Planting the foot to get a run simply caused mass TC action and by the time we were half way up the slope, dead and buried. The TD5 also had a manual activation of the CDL available and with this on, and TC off, one attempt at 150 meter upslope runs, done easy.

TC will not always cause problems but I saw enough to say that in soft big sand, especially uphill, and with the power of the v8 to temper, TC can be an absolute show stopper.

Nick

[Hastykiwi]

Err sort of forgot my point there.

Upshot, - CDL plus the option to run with or with out TC is the optimum. Cutting the wire is not the answer as you lose the option of turning it off. I beleive Slunnie has already stated it clearly, a switch to control TC with CDL activated is essential. I would fully support this conclusion.

Nick

[cockie55]

Do the D2 and D2a electronic ZF's have identical CDL/HL lever mounts (even though it may not have been not used) as the D1 hydraulic ZF CDL/HL lever mount?

[Utemad]

Not allegedly transfers noise, it definitely transfers noise and vibration. This is why the design was changed from a lever operated-direct TC mounted unit to a cable operated-tunnel mount unit.

I don't have a D2 but I would assume that if you could fit the D1 CDL actuator assembly to the D2 then even if it did transmit noise it wouldn't be any different to what you get in the D1?
I suppose you might hear the noise more though if you go from no CDL noise to some CDL noise. Especially since the D2 is quieter than the D1 inside the cabin.

[Redback]

Do the D2 and D2a electronic ZF's have identical CDL lever mount (even though it may not have been not used) as the D1 hydraulic ZF's?

Yes, but the mounting plate will need to be widened where the new lever goes through so it can move sideways, but the mount is the same, also the D2a cable CDL is the same whether you have a manual or auto.

FROM THIS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC08030.jpg

TO THIS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/bazzar/DSC08047.jpg
You may want to make yours a bit tidier:(

The D1 linkage system won't fit in the transmission tunnel of the D2 AUTO only the manual just, with some modification.

So if you have a D2 AUTO then the D2a cable system is the only option.

Baz.

[jmkoffice]

I don't have a D2 but I would assume that if you could fit the D1 CDL actuator assembly to the D2 then even if it did transmit noise it wouldn't be any different to what you get in the D1?
I suppose you might hear the noise more though if you go from no CDL noise to some CDL noise. Especially since the D2 is quieter than the D1 inside the cabin.

I know the vibration/noise would annoy me. Both my previous D1's gradually got noisier as they aged, due to wear in both the drive-train and the actual CDL selector.

I remember having other cars having drive-train vibration/noise being transferred into the cabin….

[cockie55]

Yes, but the mounting plate will need to be widened where the new lever goes through so it can move sideways, but the mount is the same, also the D2a cable CDL is the same whether you have a manual or auto.

The D1 linkage system won't fit in the transmission tunnel of the D2 AUTO only the manual just, with some modification.

So if you have a D2 AUTO then the D2a cable system is the only option.

Baz.

Thanks Baz for that confirmation. I couldn't imagine ZF changing entire casting over an accessory mount.

Are you sure the D2 and D2a tunnel clearance is that smaller than in a D1 you can't use a D1 CDL/HL linkage. The ZF and LT's cases are idential and I thought D1 linkages use in D2 auto's was widespread????

[Redback]

Thanks Baz for that confirmation. I couldn't imagine ZF changing entire casting over an accessory mount.

Are you sure the D2 and D2a tunnel clearance is that smaller than in a D1 you can't use a D1 CDL/HL linkage. The ZF and LT's cases are idential and I thought D1 linkages use in D2 auto's was widespread????

Landyandy tried the D1 linkage on his AUTO and couldn't get it to fit, give him a PM just to confirm it, I have been known to be wrong;)

Baz.

[Urban Panzer]

You can use a D1 linkage, done it in my friends TD5.

The important bit is, you have to use a linkage for a manual FROM a manual and vice versa for an auto. This is because the mounting bracket that bolts to the transfer case and that holds the lever is different for both models. My friend purchased a manual linkage, we when to fit it and it didn't fit at all, so had to purchase the said casting for an Auto (picture)

below you can see the diff

Manual

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/764.jpg

Auto

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2009/02/765.jpg