non LR Race Brakes - shims required?

[catch-22]

Just fitting new pads and rotors to my track car. Used for circuit only. Hawk HT10 pads.

Do you think I need to put the shims back in??

Cheers
Caine


btw - I am asking on this site as there are some very knowledgeable people with vast amounts of experience in all areas.

[Blknight.aus]

which particular shims are you talking about?

the ones that adjust the rotor position to the hub?
the ones that shift the caliper to center it over the rotor?
the ones behind the pads?

generally, if its the ones behind the pads, generally yes they do a few things for you from anti rattle, aiding in preventing heat transfer to the brake piston and stopping the pad backing plate from eating the piston. you should have new ones to go with the pads.

[catch-22]

was hoping you'd reply :)

The ones behind the pads.

Yeah I thought about the heat transfer. I didn't get any with the new pads. In fact I have never been given any with any of the race pads I've bought.

Might see if Mazda sell them new. The ones I have are rusted to buggery..

[rick130]

Are they OE calipers (sliders) or opposed piston types ?
Never bothered using any pad/piston shims on any of the race cars I worked on and never had a problem with pistons or backing plates.

Unless the shims are ceramic, there will be eff all difference in heat transfer to the caliper, IMO the shims are only there for anti-rattle, but it shouldn't hurt to use them either.

Re pads, have you tried any of Ferodo's offerings ?
It has been ten years and I'm very much out of the loop these days, but when I last took a car to the track purely to test pads Ferodo consistently came up trumps in stopping poer and more importantly feel.
Bear in mind this is all from a Formula Ford and I wasn't driving, I was the engineer on the day (although It's exactly wht I'd found when i was still driving) and we found that the Hawke DL17 were brilliant on stopping power but were feather light to the touch and a touch hard to modulate, Carbon Metallic (compounds ??) were just miles over the top on such a light car, very touchy, easy to lock and harder to unlock, Mintex (can't remember the compounds either) were pretty good and Ferodo 4003 trumped everything.

A heavier car and you might find things a bit different, but an engineer at DBA said the same thing to me. He'd found Ferodo, at the time to be more on top of non asbestos pad game, but as I said at the start, ten years is a long time in Motorsport.......

[catch-22]

Yeah Thanks Rick. Brake caliper is 4 pot, 2 a side, both pushing.

I was considering going the Ferodo 3000 this time around but I have found a great match with the standard bias. Hawk HT10's on the front and Hawk Blues on the rear. It's a good balance.

I might try the Ferodo next time though....haven't made a comparison with another proper race pad.

I guess the shims will let a slight amount of air between the pad base and the piston so I do not doubt there will be a cooling effect, however, it may only be minor.

FRODO.......SAM.......