why a 110??

[2_door]

okay, seems like a simple question to LR folk, but being new to this LR game, I am after some practical reasons why a 110 over a D2.

I know some of you have BOTH (lucky bastards ;)) but I can only afford one or the other.

I want to compare Td5 110's and Td5 D2's so its apples and apples.

It has to be able to do daily driving duties as well as moderate to hard offroad tracks and distance touring with a camper trailer etc.

So seeing that they have the same motor, transmission, coils etc, does it really come down to personal preference in body shape???? is it that basic a choice :(

[weeds]

auto not available in a fender?

similar Q with tdi's, i was looking at a disco, air-com/comfort for the family but i could not resist when i sore my fender as it had planty of bolt on's and more storage space

[p38arover]

I am after some practical reasons why a 110 over a D2.

Very few! Over a D1, maybe loadspace.

110
Worse turning circle, less carpark friendly.
Older 110 - worse aircon - dunno about the latest ones.
No automatic option.
Noisier.
Less passenger room.
Less comfortable.
Did I mention noisier?
Fewer safety features, e.g., SRS.
Water leaks.
At night, multiple reflections from vertical rear window.

D2
More expensive wheel bearings.
More electronics

[dmdigital]

D2
- Smaller standard tyres (235/70R16 - 110 has 235/85R16).
+ Auto Transmission available
+/- Smaller weelbase (100" as opposed to 110")
- Less cargo area by a long way
+ Quieter, more creature comforts, good climate control system
- Not as good off-road out of the box, but still very capable

110 (Td5)
- Little to no sound proofing to the cabin
+ Better wheel articulation
+ Much easier to modify the interior to suit your needs
+ Longer wheel base
+ Lower gear ratios
- Poor heating and cooling of cabin
+ Better approach and departure angles
+ Lot lighter construction so better in the soft stuff
+ 1t payload capacity (nothing else on the market has that)
+ Heavier suspension

I know I've left out a few things

[JDNSW]

As dm_td5 says, the basic difference is that the 110 is bigger, more rugged, and carries more, and the D2 is more comfortable. If you need the carrying capacity, there is no choice. If you don't need that capacity, you have the choice of vehicles.

The D2 shares few components except the engine and transmission with other models. The 110 has had much the same body, chassis, and suspension for twenty-five years, and shares many parts with the RR Classic and D1. This means that parts for the D2 are generally more expensive and long term are likely to be harder to find, but as against that some parts may last longer. (some don't - e.g. the rubber coupling on the prop shaft) Being a basically older design, the 110 has smaller replaceable components - e.g. replace wheel bearings not hubs as for D2.

John

[Chucaro]

Graham is a very experienced adventure and loves Defenders. I think that he is a member of AURLO and he is in Expedition Portal forum as well
Have a look his page and why a Defender HERE (http://www.africaoverland.org/vehicle_whydefender.htm).
I can send you a CD with heaps of images of Defenders setup for long expeditions and you would see the advantages of the 110 and 130’s Defes.
I think that even the RR Classic is a better option than a Disco just based on room alone.
You know Justin’s RR so I do not need to tell you my arguments in favor of the RR agains the Disco
The Defe is the best choice regarding simplicity, payload and room, second is the RRC for me.
Cheers

[2_door]

Thanks for the link Arthur. Great read and well decked out 110's.

I have so many thought patterns and ideas, will have to sleep on it for a while. I have a really bad habit of buying cars and then 6 or 12 months later swapping them for something else as I didnt really think things out so well in the first place.

The next ride will hopefuly be my last purchase for a while, so I want to research it fully and bas emy decison on a 'best suits my needs' basis and not some tricked up truck that looks great.

First and foremost, it has to be comfortable, be suitable for use as the family taxi and then be competent to hook the camper trailer up and head away for a weekend or a month.

so many choices :(

[Chucaro]

Mark if you idea is doing some long trips in the future and be able to take a lots of gear with you, for me the Defe is the way to go.
There are heap of very good pages on the net about Defenders and adventures and how these vehicles have been setup.
This is a current adventure and nice reading:
NESSIESADVENTURES (http://www.nessiesadventures.com/index.htm)

Cheers

[werdan]

You can't rest a stubbie on the guard of a D2. :-)

[Chucaro]

You can't rest a stubbie on the guard of a D2. :-)

Yes and you can shake a cocktail on the Defender :D

[dmdigital]

You'd never get this much gear in the back of a D2

... unless you left the wife behind:wasntme:

[2_door]

You can't rest a stubbie on the guard of a D2. :-)

now you talking my language....finally a decent reason for a 110 ;)

thanks Arthur for the link, off to check it out :o

[dullbird]

... unless you left the wife behind:wasntme:

and all the crap that men like to take:wasntme:

You know the items that you bring in three's in case the first one breaks down you have a spare and if god forbid that one carks it you have a spare for that one also:lol2:

[dmdigital]

Touché ;)

[slug_burner]

Mate I am one of the lucky b....., I have a 2003 D2 Td5 and a 94 300Tdi defender. If I had to go with one only, hmmm...... hard choice but the 110 would win. Space and hose out floor. All the mod cons of the D2 can be had in any vehicle but if you want a real 4x4 can't go past the defender.

I drive the D2 a lot more as a bitume vehicle but as far as getting out and camping the space and ability of the 110 does it for me. The one thing that I would have out of the D2 in the 110 is the auto. Only because I have had to rebuild the transmission twice in 150Kkm on the defender. Factory recall material when the output shaft in the R380 and the input gear of the LT320 flogged the splines (not that LR would do a recall) and then later spat the input shaft gear onto the lay gear probably due to previous owner towing boat in 5th. The spline lubrication fix and the move away from ATF in the Td5 defender will mean that you should not have the first problem and I suspect that the move away from ATF will probably help with the second problem as well.

Good luck.

[dullbird]

Touché ;)

So you admit it?....Ian wont he just laughs at me when i say we dont need 3 fridges or 3 torches or 3 maps of the same place :lol2:

[BigJon]

First and foremost, it has to be comfortable, be suitable for use as the family taxi

Rules out the 110 then.

[p38arover]

You can't rest a stubbie on the guard of a D2. :-)

Use the bullbar on the D2

[abaddonxi]

If you have to ask the question then probably a Defender is not for you.

Sorry.:D:D

Cheers
Simon

[dmdigital]

Simon, I've been wanting to post that, but resisted:D



So you admit it?....Ian wont he just laughs at me when i say we dont need 3 fridges or 3 torches or 3 maps of the same place :lol2:
I admit to nothing. Anyway as for 3 torches, I seem to recall you had the biggest and brightest one!

[dullbird]

Simon, I've been wanting to post that, but resisted:D



I admit to nothing. Anyway as for 3 torches, I seem to recall you had the biggest and brightest one!

:angel: moi?

[abaddonxi]

Simon, I've been wanting to post that, but resisted:D



<snip>

Sounds a bit harsh maybe, but there was never a question for me.

[rlysnar]

Hi all

Silly question, but if the Defender shares much of the same drive train ect as Discos and RRs, why aren't auto boxes a common upgrade in Defenders?

Richard

[dmdigital]

Hi all

Silly question, but if the Defender shares much of the same drive train ect as Discos and RRs, why aren't auto boxes a common upgrade in Defenders?

Richard
Not a silly question, just one that has no answer. The most likely reason would be lack of demand given the total number of the total Defender sold each year globally.

[Chucaro]

If you would like to convert the Defe to auo have a look HERE (http://mrautomotive.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=34) Nice and neat job :)

[dullbird]

Hi all

Silly question, but if the Defender shares much of the same drive train ect as Discos and RRs, why aren't auto boxes a common upgrade in Defenders?

Richard

you can do it though on the older defenders...and more and more are:)

[BigJon]

Hi all

Silly question, but if the Defender shares much of the same drive train ect as Discos and RRs, why aren't auto boxes a common upgrade in Defenders?

Richard

I have seen a few.

[EchiDna]

IMHO, for many defender drivers auto is quite simply not considered an upgrade, more of a retrograde...

there are arguments for an against both in a 4x4 situation, but for me the simplicity and reliability of a good manual box like the LT95 wins every time. Another version of the above comment - if you can't handle the clutch, a defender is not for you IMHO.

[dullbird]

I would upgrade my defender to an auto in a heartbeat, it has nothing to do with the clutch...although our 200tdi clutch is heavy especially in stop start traffic the puma clutch is not heavy at all.....

just comes down to personal preference for me.....I also know that Ian wishes the defender came out with an auto

[p38arover]

IMHO, for many defender drivers auto is quite simply not considered an upgrade, more of a retrograde...

Many? Or some?


but for me the simplicity and reliability of a good manual box like the LT95 wins every time.

'Tis a pity the Defenders don't use it. It seems, from reading this forum, that the later gearboxes in Defenders just aren't up to the task for long term reliability. Tusker has had 3 (or is it 4) gearboxes in his Defender.

[p38arover]

"Use the bullbar on the D2"



a stubby holder and a couple of cable ties and bobs your uncle

I also have the rear step bar on the P38A!

[rlysnar]

Thanks for the link Chicaro re the outfit that retrofits autos to Defenders. Does look a neat job indeed. I am looking around for a 110 project vehicle, say 1990 to 1995, that has already had a few mods (saves me the trouble) and hopefully an Isuzu conversion. When re-built, I intend to do a few miles and take the kids camping regularly, and an auto would make life easier. I've taken a '79 RR from Perth to Brisbane via the top end and that vehicle had an early 3-speed auto conversion that didn't miss a beat in the five years I owned it. I also used to race a Series II years ago in club meets, and was always beaten by the blokes with Tojos that had autos fitted, so I know an auto can handle the rough stuff. Anyone have any pointers on a Defender/Isuzu/auto conversion that can be handled by a home mechanic?

Richard

[Chucaro]

Thanks for the link Chicaro re the outfit that retrofits autos to Defenders. Does look a neat job indeed. I am looking around for a 110 project vehicle, say 1990 to 1995, that has already had a few mods (saves me the trouble) and hopefully an Isuzu conversion. When re-built, I intend to do a few miles and take the kids camping regularly, and an auto would make life easier. I've taken a '79 RR from Perth to Brisbane via the top end and that vehicle had an early 3-speed auto conversion that didn't miss a beat in the five years I owned it. I also used to race a Series II years ago in club meets, and was always beaten by the blokes with Tojos that had autos fitted, so I know an auto can handle the rough stuff. Anyone have any pointers on a Defender/Isuzu/auto conversion that can be handled by a home mechanic?

Richard

The other mod that I would do if go auto is fit the oil cooler from a P38 RR which is largher than the one on the Tdi 300.

[EchiDna]

Many? Or some?



'Tis a pity the Defenders don't use it. It seems, from reading this forum, that the later gearboxes in Defenders just aren't up to the task for long term reliability. Tusker has had 3 (or is it 4) gearboxes in his Defender.

For the first one, I guess we would need a poll -but in the absence of one, I stand by my thoughts and would predict most defender and 110 owners prefer manual.

For the second, what I wrote is definitely more to do with the second hand market than new - I'll admit that I'm biased that way. Early defenders certainly did have the LT85, which changed from the LT95 sometime around 1985-86 and its not uncommon to see newer TDi powered defenders with older gearboxes and transfer cases - at least in part due to the supposed weakness of the R380 and/or "rover" diff when compared to the LT95 and salisbury diff for example.

This is why the 4BD1 powered 110 is held in high regard by quite a few members on here - the factory spec is/was considered about as good as anything every build by land rover, but it can still be quite easily modified into whatever the owner wants it to be: tourer, mud plugger, rock climber...

Which is also why what once drove out of Solihull has little relevance to what is driving around now in my experience, especially on vehicles older than 10-15 years.

New ones, well that is a whole different story again... but any defender can be made into what the owner wants, including auto if so desired.

[Reads90]

I would upgrade my defender to an auto in a heartbeat, it has nothing to do with the clutch...although our 200tdi clutch is heavy especially in stop start traffic the puma clutch is not heavy at all.....


Put a 300 TDi master clutch and clutch peddle box on your 200 Tdi and it will make the clutch alot light to use
What i did to my winch challenge 200 Tdi 90

[dullbird]

yeah, he wouldn't go to that trouble........of changing the clutch.

I find the 200 really heavy when I haven't driven it for a long time once I have been in it for a while its usually OK, the first time I get out of the car after clutch controlling to work, when I haven't driven it for a while my clutch leg is usually shaking..:lol2: I know I'm a weakling

[Reads90]

yeah, he wouldn't go to that trouble........of changing the clutch.

I find the 200 really heavy when I haven't driven it for a long time once I have been in it for a while its usually OK, the first time I get out of the car after clutch controlling to work, when I haven't driven it for a while my clutch leg is usually shaking..:lol2: I know I'm a weakling

Nah its not the clutch just all the bit behind the pedal and the other side of the bulkhead. Don't need to touch the clutch or slave or anything

Another thing you can do is to take of one of the heavy duty return springs on the pedal (inside) . Makes it lighter and no differance to the workings of it

[p38arover]

110 - Crappy switch gear (can't comment on the latest cars)

D2 - better switch gear

P38A - Ditto.

[Tombie]

You have a camper so space isnt the issue..

Family taxi excludes defender in most peoples eyes... (I used mine for everything for the time I had it)

D2 is better as a 'mile muncher' as its quieter.

Some people dont like seating in Defenders

A/C in Deefer (pre Puma engined version) was useless

Defender will take more before exceeding GVM... (1010kg on 110 Wagon)
which sounds like a lot till you factor in:
-4 people approx 250kg
-Bullbar + Winch 110kg
-LR Tank (Full) 250kg
-Fridge 80kg
-Water (80litres) 80kg
-Wheel carrier 25kg
-Roof rack 60kg

Already you've used 855kg and havent put recovery gear, draws, food other than fridge, electronics/gadgets etc... in.... leaving only 155kg:eek:

So yes, its better than the Disco in this regard for sure.

[dmdigital]

110 - Crappy switch gear (can't comment on the latest cars)

D2 - better switch gear

P38A - Ditto.
Dashboard momentary and latching switches on the Puma are the same as the D2 (and I suspect the D3 and RR). Headlights are now relayed but steering column switches are the same old ones:(

[lambrover]

shorty u still got your patrol, if so I know it's not a rover but you can't go past patrol running gear, and they will be quieter than a 110 and better than a D2 for room.

[p38arover]

Dashboard momentary and latching switches on the Puma are the same as the D2 (and I suspect the D3 and RR). Headlights are now relayed but steering column switches are the same old ones:(

The relay modification will be a welcome addition.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked my County but it's not a patch on the P38A. My wife prefers to drive a D2 over the P38A. I only sold the County 'cos I couldn't justify keeping two 4WDs.

I forgot to mention the saving in clothing costs. Don't ask me how many pairs of pants and shirts were torn when exiting the County.

Another aspect of the County which made it hard to live with was the pain it caused in my right arm from being forced against the door in cold weather.

You'll note I've made no mention of seating comfort for the driver. Why? Because, for me, the County was better than the P38A! I get get aching thighs in the P38A (and did also in my previous '87 RR) within a few miles. I could drive for hours in the County without a problem. I climb out of the P38A after a couple of hundred km (next fuel stop) and I can barely walk.

[dmdigital]

I forgot to mention the saving in clothing costs. Don't ask me how many pairs of pants and shirts were torn when exiting the County.
Strangely I've only torn two pairs of work PPE that way. Don't even ask how many times I thought I'd damaged trousers/shorts though:(. I guess I've been lucky.

Seating in the new Puma is better than the Tdi and personally its better than the D2. The best seats I've had in any vehicle were in my 97 D1. The worst has to be in a Hilux, even the new ones don't suit me. But seats are a very personal thing, what's good for one is bad for another.